Passive skills make the game less skillful; be careful what you wish for!

Removing/nerfing passives is only going to make thief and mesmer 1 shot everyone more easily. If you nerf passives but don't nerf their 1 shot capability, then the game is going to go down the drain. I predict everyone will just play these 2 classes to 1 shot each other. Who ever gets the first hit wins. I also predict a complete destruction of the warrior class and necro, a warrior must have passives due to the melee restrain, but if you nerf them, then everyone will just 1 shot warrior from 1200 units away.

I don't see a bright future for necros or warriors. The only ones who are going to benefit from this are the 1 shot classes with huge mobility and stealth.

& it was about time. You guys better start learning skills early on like us mesmers we did for the last 5 years. Unless you wanna cry about it later.
Time for the lazy plays to die!

Mesmer and thief are very strong yes, and will probably be even more prevalent now especially with druids nerfs and rune of surging going out.

S/d thief main powerhouse which is double steal and sword 3 saw no changes, so it’ll stay very strong.I believe they are taking suggestions on mesmer though and mirage did get nerfed. Only chrono remains as is for now.

all Rev players laugh in unison

@Vieux P.1238 said:& it was about time. You guys better start learning skills early on like us mesmers we did for the last 5 years. Unless you wanna cry about it later.

Time for the lazy plays to die!

Learning skills? Power mirage in spvp or wvw can be played even by a blind monkey, since the beginning of game mesmer was the easy pvp god mode, so please don't think your skill is something above average.

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:& it was about time. You guys better start learning skills early on like us mesmers we did for the last 5 years. Unless you wanna cry about it later.

Time for the lazy plays to die!

Blind monkey? Then you must be a Pro player & really good

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:& it was about time. You guys better start learning skills early on like us mesmers we did for the last 5 years. Unless you wanna cry about it later.

Time for the lazy plays to die!

I didn't say I am good, just saying playing the current power oneshot mirage requires little to zero skill especially in wvw, you have the damage plus tons of escapes, evades.

Start the combo from stealth and oneshot any profession without a passive traits, if fail the oneshot burst, disangage in a matter of seconds and repeat.

The thing that the combo exist since the beginning of the game, like many mesmers main love to say a lot, doesn't mean it is okay and not broken to play against, especially considering that mesmer is one if not the only class who never fade out of meta. They nerfed condi last patch, mesmer has already other 2 builds in the meta, one chrono, one mirage.

Removing the passives without tuning down those kind of builds it's so silly imho.

Never played with passives on my ele.

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:& it was about time. You guys better start learning skills early on like us mesmers we did for the last 5 years. Unless you wanna cry about it later.

Time for the lazy plays to die!

Only noobs think that, sry to say it. Pure power shatter mes (means without sustain traitlines) is one of the hardest builds to play, never was viable or meta in pvp. Only good in killing unexperienced player (in WvW), thats why they hate it so much, during no semi decent player will ever cry about it or even play it himself when he wanna play serious in ranked or in tournaments. It is also not meta now, the builds you find everywhere in pvp atm are either op semibunker with way too much dmg running chaosline for the facetank ability or even inspiration and chaos or/ and just phantasm builds (not shatterbuilds) with stupidly op dmg on the 100 phantasm they can create at the same time.

The mesmer burst is very predictable and can be dodged (when not bugging with a middodge interrupt) even when played with mantra and even when the mesmer goes on stealth before (as long as you see him stealthing and know he is around), and because a mesmer cannot stack endless stealth like a thief to move around the map undetected you will know he is there.

@whoknocks.4935 said:

I didn't say I am good, just saying playing the current power oneshot mirage requires little to zero skill especially in wvw, you have the damage plus tons of escapes, evades.

Start the combo from stealth and oneshot any profession without a passive traits, if fail the oneshot burst, disangage in a matter of seconds and repeat.

The thing that the combo exist since the beginning of the game, like many mesmers main love to say a lot, doesn't mean it is okay and not broken to play against, especially considering that mesmer is one if not the only class who never fade out of meta. They nerfed condi last patch, mesmer has already other 2 builds in the meta, one chrono, one mirage.

Removing the passives without tuning down those kind of builds it's so silly imho.

Mesmer always was a noobkiller it is a very confusing class for newbies and in wvw you can stack some stealth and attack on ppl who do not know that a mesmer is even near. Ofc it is easy to oneshot some karmatrain zerglings from stealth in wvw, you can kill them easy with every class that has some stealth, not only mesmer. That do not prove that mesmer is easy or op. I wanna see you playing a powermeser vs an at least semi decent player in a duel or in pvp where you cant just oneshot out of stealth on an afk.

Indeed for all the passive carried classes it is time to learn how to deal with mesmer as classes without passives like thieves or other power mesmers have to do it already. I get oneshotted by a mesmer or thief myself in wvw sometimes, ofc it is annoying when you do not even see him coming, but i mean in the end who cares? It is only wvw, it doesnt happen anything when you die, you do not lose a match or something and in pvp this is not possible so not an issue at all.

Nerfing passive procs like elixir S, stone signet, endure pain, balanced stance, hunter's determination etc will be better for the game imo.Personally, I'm fine with passive procs nerf, i don't use them and it's kinda boring watching a druid or warrior run away with double endure pain/signet of stone. Hopefully people get over it fast instead of starting a thread everytime they get killed in sPvP/roam.

I kinda prefer buffing physical skills rather than relying on endure pain. Stomp, Bull's Charge, and Kick are way more fun.

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:all Rev players laugh in unison

THIS!!! revs never played with this passiv sht

The problem is:Necros atm need buffed in survivability.Nerfing any of their defensives just makes them more gimped.

It would be like this:If you chop off hitman.5825's leg and then tie his hands behind his back.Then anyone who fights said necros will just laugh and win without any effort.That isn't balanced, that just increases the power creep more.

To be balanced, a class which is nerfed has to be ensured that it won't under perform, and if so, will need buffs in compensation.So if you take away for an example passive stuff, then necro needs other stuff in compensation, like invulns blocks evades etc, and in loads of them.We need access to decent amount of protection as well, and our condi cleanse on reaper needs buffed too.

Its not fun to be gimped to the point where everyone hard counters you, and if you nerf without compensation, that is what will happen to necromancer, and probably warrior too.

Also:Those said passives might be part of the class mechanic, and you gotta be sure to not break anything.Some classes really rely on said passives.I don't know how many passives warriors have, or what kind of passives, but i know necro has some, and they are fairly important ones

@Axl.8924 said:The problem is:Necros atm need buffed in survivability.Nerfing any of their defensives just makes them more kitten.

It would be like this:If you chop off 5825's leg and then tie his hands behind his back.Then anyone who fights said necros will just laugh and win without any effort.That isn't balanced, that just increases the power creep more.

To be balanced, a class which is nerfed has to be ensured that it won't under perform, and if so, will need buffs in compensation.So if you take away for an example passive stuff, then necro needs other stuff in compensation, like invulns blocks evades etc, and in loads of them.We need access to decent amount of protection as well, and our condi cleanse on reaper needs buffed too.

Its not fun to be kitten to the point where everyone hard counters you, and if you nerf without compensation, that is what will happen to necromancer, and probably warrior too.

Also:Those said passives might be part of the class mechanic, and you gotta be sure to not break anything.Some classes really rely on said passives.I don't know how many passives warriors have, or what kind of passives, but i know necro has some, and they are fairly important ones

Necro only has four: Chill of Death, Reaper's Protection, Unholy Sanctuary, and Last Gasp.

Of those, only two see any use whatsoever: Chill of Death and Last Gasp.

Only two out of the four are getting any changes (Reaper's Protection and Last Gasp).

Very poorly considered nerfs, really. Reaper's Protection is so awful nobody considers it at its current cooldown. Increasing the cooldown by 50% does nothing to help balance, or even fun.

Last Gasp is nigh worthless for survival unless the Necro's player actively takes advantage of it by activating Shroud when it procs. Nerfing it doesn't reduce passive gameplay, it just makes Necros have a harder time survivng.

@bravan.3876 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:& it was about time. You guys better start learning skills early on like us mesmers we did for the last 5 years. Unless you wanna cry about it later.

Time for the lazy plays to die!

@whoknocks.4935 said:

I didn't say I am good, just saying playing the current power oneshot mirage requires little to zero skill especially in wvw, you have the damage plus tons of escapes, evades.

Start the combo from stealth and oneshot any profession without a passive traits, if fail the oneshot burst, disangage in a matter of seconds and repeat.

The thing that the combo exist since the beginning of the game, like many mesmers main love to say a lot, doesn't mean it is okay and not broken to play against, especially considering that mesmer is one if not the only class who never fade out of meta. They nerfed condi last patch, mesmer has already other 2 builds in the meta, one chrono, one mirage.

Removing the passives without tuning down those kind of builds it's so silly imho.

So the meta builds appearing on metabattle about mirage are only there because they a noobkiller builds. Ah okay, I have to remind you that the builds appearing there are taken by statistics on high leagues only, and not about the situation in bronze or silver.

If it was just a noobkiller spec why is in meta? Your argument has no sense.

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:& it was about time. You guys better start learning skills early on like us mesmers we did for the last 5 years. Unless you wanna cry about it later.

Time for the lazy plays to die!

@whoknocks.4935 said:

I didn't say I am good, just saying playing the current power oneshot mirage requires little to zero skill especially in wvw, you have the damage plus tons of escapes, evades.

Start the combo from stealth and oneshot any profession without a passive traits, if fail the oneshot burst, disangage in a matter of seconds and repeat.

The thing that the combo exist since the beginning of the game, like many mesmers main love to say a lot, doesn't mean it is okay and not broken to play against, especially considering that mesmer is one if not the only class who never fade out of meta. They nerfed condi last patch, mesmer has already other 2 builds in the meta, one chrono, one mirage.

Removing the passives without tuning down those kind of builds it's so silly imho.

The meta builds for mesmer in EU are phantasm builds not shatterbuilds in the first place , they are op because the new phantasm system is op. I talk about the standard shattermes not using chaos or inspiration and not playing a 100 phantasm generating build. You will not find mesmers in EU using one of these not op shatterbuilds. Everyone is running a more or less tanky phantasm build atm. And stop arguing with a side some random ppl voting for builds, most of them even from NA where you have a totally different situation.

edit: lel just checked metabattle there even is a pure glass core shatter mes listed as good, have you seen a single one? Not even in Na you can run this. This side is a joke as an argument about opness of builds.

@"bravan.3876" said:Indeed for all the passive carried classes it is time to learn how to deal with mesmer as classes without passives like thieves or other power mesmers have to do it already.

LOL, every class in this game is carried by passives, the biggest single passive by far and one of the reasons why the notion that the combat in this game is "high skilled" is laughable, is that the game passively aims for you (tab targeted).

It has nothing to do with "learning to play", take pre-HoT, that you could play mes or thief as glassy zerker and not say static discharge engy had nothing to do with being skilled, nothing to do with passive traits (indeed elixir s, protection injection showed how useless passives were) it was simply down to mechanics, certain classes have Ez-mode "active" mechanics that are way more efficient than other classes, (made total noob level by the game aiming for you), skill has zero to do with it.

Skillwise the actual combat in this game for a supposed competitive wannabe "e-sport" is laughable, the only thing that took the skill up a notch in this game was having to split concentration between the combat and the map awareness, rotations, etc, but even that is a joke outside of proper teams playing each other.

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"bravan.3876" said:Indeed for all the passive carried classes it is time to learn how to deal with mesmer as classes without passives like thieves or other power mesmers have to do it already.

Agreed.

I suggest if people turn on their action cameras instead of simply using a mouse and see if you can aim just as properly.

This game, combat wise, literally holds your hand, while in BDO you not only have to aim, but actually know long strings of combos to kill your opponent. There is no such thing as 'good' in this game, only hand-holding and strangers calling each other noobs.

Get on a real PvP game, and see how long these folks last.

What a stupid argument to talk about how much skill GW2 needs. You say the game do not need skill anyway so just let it stay at the most braindead state and all passives stay for an even less skillbased game... logic... Actioncam the way it is in GW2 do not make much sense to use, in particular not on mesmer where you still need a target for most skills and you cannot click anything, can make you not get a teammate in target lying too near to an downed opponent to start the ress and so on. GW2 is not a shooter or pure moba, its still an mmo and it is stupid to argue about let passives stay just because you think GW2 is skillless anyway. Also that is not even true when i see how many bad player are in this game, bad after even years of playing, then the game can not be that easy. No one would say GW2 is the hardest pvp game ever tho. In my experience the ppl who come first with the GW2 is easy anyway argument just hope for their brainless facetankbuild with op dmg to stay because they are most often not the best player at all.

Oh well, never had any of those. They still rarely oneshot me so good riddance.

@Alehin.3746 said:Nerfing passive procs like elixir S, stone signet, endure pain, balanced stance, hunter's determination etc will be better for the game imo.Personally, I'm fine with passive procs nerf, i don't use them and it's kinda boring watching a druid or warrior run away with double endure pain/signet of stone. Hopefully people get over it fast instead of starting a thread everytime they get killed in sPvP/roam.

This, totally agree. However, considering fields are sometimes a huge mess ( i.e deal with holo, 2 scourges , mirage at same), removing all passives might lead to unreadable matchs and too easy drops. At this state of the game, removing passives may require a big classes rework too.

But maybe we could remove the finish offs facilitators, ability on elixis S or the balanced stance for example, since they can be gamebreaker from time to time

@Hitman.5829 said:Removing/nerfing passives is only going to make thief and mesmer 1 shot everyone more easily. If you nerf passives but don't nerf their 1 shot capability, then the game is going to go down the drain. I predict everyone will just play these 2 classes to 1 shot each other. Who ever gets the first hit wins. I also predict a complete destruction of the warrior class and necro, a warrior must have passives due to the melee restrain, but if you nerf them, then everyone will just 1 shot warrior from 1200 units away.

I don't see a bright future for necros or warriors. The only ones who are going to benefit from this are the 1 shot classes with huge mobility and stealth.

idk, thief is pretty squish itself. They've been nerfing thief slowly over the last several patches including this one and in starting to wonder if thief will be viable at all.

Btw, there are nerfs to thief burst in that list. As well as thief survivability. Only reason I'm not throwing a fit about it is because there are so many other changes to other classes I can't even tell what well happen

I'm very curious how they are going to handle each case with the passive invulnerability or almost invulnerable on war, ranger, engi, and ele. all i know is if it is a button to activate the effect i wouldn't mind because that is a extra key stroke and as a scourge that could be 1 second or 2 of a damage window. If they remove them and replace with a lesser version then i do hope it's a block of some sort so as a necro with unblockable skills i could rek easier then waiting for a passive to end before i strike. Of all of them i really only think the engi and war passives are the real problem being that they are a medium and heavy class.

@Hitman.5829 said:I don't see a bright future for necrosNone of our passives is the kind that helps us survive massive burst. The auto spectral armor might as well not be there when you have half a team going ham on you. We never had anything like auto Endure Pain or auto Elixir S. Either a Druid/Engi/Ele/Guard supported us through it/insta ressed us or we died. Nothing will change for us.

@Aktium.9506 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:I don't see a bright future for necrosNone of our passives is the kind that helps us survive massive burst. The auto spectral armor might as well not be there when you have half a team going ham on you. We never had anything like auto Endure Pain or auto Elixir S. Either a Druid/Engi/Ele/Guard supported us through it/insta ressed us or we died. Nothing will change for us.

You never know, changes are happening to thief andn warriors mesmers and eles.Maybe somehow their damage and cc and endless boonspam will be reined in more for pvp, giving us room to actually survive and flop around for a bit more.

Nerfing thieves harder hitting techs might be a step in the right direction