Really Justified Nerf?

Is this really that OP it has to be nerfed?

https://imgur.com/a/v72wy

I actually expected Anet to buff dagger AA on war since its so weak and now they really want to nerf it.

im speechless lol

I think the auto nerf was unnecessary. Didn’t need a buff either though. The other nerfs are enough to being sb in line i think.

https://imgur.com/3HWGwPB

Even more OP considering 5 vuln and 11 might.

@"Patrick.2987" said:https://imgur.com/3HWGwPB

Even more OP.

The dmg number on necro for dagger are higher than for war. also the first AA of necro hits twice.dmg numbers for necro: 330,257,440dmg numbers for sb: 202,202,312

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger check the dmg numbers here ull see necro hits more.

its also a matter of build, amulet runes etc. how much u hit.

@BeLZedaR.4790 said:I think the auto nerf was unnecessary. Didn’t need a buff either though. The other nerfs are enough to being sb in line i think.

yeah some nerfs are justified i agree. But they nerfed legit every single skill:

whole aa chain, dagger 2, dagger 3, dagger f1, full counter, defy pain, last stand, break enchantments, featherfoot grace and well surging runes is gonna be removed.

compared to the nerfs on holo and druid who took quite some nerfs as well, they kind of overnerfed sb.

The AA chain is just exaggerated.

@Toron.4856 said:

@"Patrick.2987" said:

https://imgur.com/3HWGwPB

Even more OP.

Not exactly true, necro dagger chain is 4 hits which halves the modifier on the first attack per hit if u do the maths. On top of that you have mightgain if i remember correctly on SB dagger auto.

@Patrick.2987 said:

@Toron.4856 said:

@Patrick.2987 said:

https://imgur.com/3HWGwPB

Even more OP.

not totally true. the chain is 3 attacks. the first attack hits twice tho. also, the 330 dmg includes both hits. on top of that the multipliers for the Power are higher on necro than for war.

the power dmg multipliers for necro: 0.9 , 0,7 , 1,2the power dmg multiplier for war: 0.55 , 0.55 , 0.85

again, compare the attacks: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dagger

Full rotation autos might be something to talk about in PvE, but this is the PvP channel isn't it? You ever tried to maintain uptime on someone with a dagger necro?

@Toron.4856 said:

@BeLZedaR.4790 said:I think the auto nerf was unnecessary. Didn’t need a buff either though. The other nerfs are enough to being sb in line i think.

Did they forget to increase the cooldown on shield block? Damn.

@Oozo.7856 said:Full rotation autos might be something to talk about in PvE, but this is the PvP channel isn't it? You ever tried to maintain uptime on someone with a dagger necro?

well a war wont land a chain either unless the target is stunned. But if the enemy is stunned its just 10 times better to pull off 100 blades w quickness. in general all the GS skills hurt more than dagger aa.

yet they nerf the aa dmg by 15% lol

I heard that you can do more damage if you equip something other than a knight's amulet, and like actually pick something other than full defensive traits.

@Crinn.7864 said:I heard that you can do more damage if you equip something other than a knight's amulet, and like actually pick something other than full defensive traits.

thats just casual meta w demo and surging rune.

i could run a pve build and zerker amulet w scholar and hit 3k autos sure. but thats not the point.

the point is that the war dagger aa hits are weaky compared to other dagger aa chains.

a zerk with with scholar amulet on DA, CS, DD will hit so much more than a zerk war.

None of those specs have the defensive capabilities built into sb either. You'll have a hard time running anything other than a warrior in zerker gear, whereas that's the go to ammy for sb

@Toron.4856 said:

@Patrick.2987 said:

@Toron.4856 said:

@Patrick.2987 said:

https://imgur.com/3HWGwPB

Even more OP.

necro dagger auto is less dps, though. it is much slower, and doesn't do bonus crit damageand then on top of that, using any other necro dagger skills is a massive dps loss. all of necro dagger's dps is in the autoattack, unlike for warrior dagger. necro dagger is way worse. don't know why you're trying to compare them

@reikken.4961 said:

@Toron.4856 said:

@Patrick.2987 said:

@Toron.4856 said:

@Patrick.2987 said:

https://imgur.com/3HWGwPB

Even more OP.

necro aa is not slower. once again have a look at the wiki compare the cast times.

dagger 2 and 3 on war dont do great dmg either. its Mobiliy and CC rather than dmg.

Also theres no need to compare dagger necros to dagger warriors cuz dagger necro is not the pvp meta while dagger sb is the pvp meta.

i wasnt comparing them in the first place it was the guy who posted a pic complaining about dagger aa.

@Egorum.9506 said:None of those specs have the defensive capabilities built into sb either. You'll have a hard time running anything other than a warrior in zerker gear, whereas that's the go to ammy for sb

Ofc Not. every class has its playstyle and place in the meta. a war is suppose to do 1v1s or outnumbered fights. a dagger necro is not meta. scourge is the meta...

and im not here to argue weather scourge is OP or not of if SB is OP or not.

what makes SB strong is not the dagger aa for sure tho. and anet is about to nerf warriors sustain by nerfing featherfoot grace, defy pain and endure pain and multiple other skills on top of that. as i said i agree with some of the nerfs since sb has to be gutted BUT the dagger AA is weak and not what makes SB be so strong.

theres no reason to nerf dagger AA after u alrdy nerfed the sustain imo

Scourge say hello with their upcoming 50% nerf to sustain. Don't complain, warriors at least are still viable in every gamemode.

I've never really found the dagger AA chain to be weak. It's fast and generates might, which helps its damage. I think if they wanted to do anything to it, they could add a boon strip to the final attack or perhaps crit damage, crit chance or flat damage against boonless foes. I think that the latter would be more balanced.

The point behind the nerf is not that it is an excessively strong auto attack, the point is that the overall kit of spellbreaker with a dagger is over performing and is being toned down. As dagger has a good amount of utility with boon rip, gap closers, slow, and a fast hard hitting cc, Anet is deciding to let it keep the strong utility but make the trade off be relatively weak sustained damage. It isn't a bad change when taken in context of all the other meta builds (and many non meta) also being toned down significantly.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:The point behind the nerf is not that it is an excessively strong auto attack, the point is that the overall kit of spellbreaker with a dagger is over performing and is being toned down. As dagger has a good amount of utility with boon rip, gap closers, slow, and a fast hard hitting cc, Anet is deciding to let it keep the strong utility but make the trade off be relatively weak sustained damage. It isn't a bad change when taken in context of all the other meta builds (and many non meta) also being toned down significantly.

well they increased the CD on dagger 2 and shortened the CC on dagger 3 as well. so in fact they are nerfing the utility and yet decreasing the dmg of the auto chain.

basically every single sb skill is being nerfed in some way. weapon, burst and utility.

im not saying that sb shouldnt be nerfed but why in the world is the nerf on sb so much stronger than on the other classes? and then theres S/d Thief who gets his sword3 dmg buffed.

i wouldnt say that sb is much superior in the current state of the game compared to mirages, druids, holo, sd thieves firebrand and scourges. yet the nerfs are so inadequate.

druid holo took big nerfsfirebrand scourge took quite some nerfssb took a huge nerf. in literally every aspect of weapon skill, burst skills and utility, as i said

mirage took one actually good nerf but thats about its/d got acro and aa nerfs yeah but sw3 buffed and no changes to the perma boon steal, double steal and unblockable spam so yeah

I don't understand why people use dagger over axe

@sephiroth.4217 said:I don't understand why people use dagger over axe

Utility plus breaching strike

@Little Howl.5231 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:I don't understand why people use dagger over axe

evis is also way too easy to avoid.

Wrong the reason behind nerfing it is its excessive strength. How about doing the maths first, before rushing to conclusions:

A dagger AA chain takes 1.44 sec for a total damage modifier of 0.55 + 0.55 + 0.85 = 1.95, that means it deals a 1.354 damage modifier per second.A greatsword AA chain takes 2.4 sec to complete for a total modifier of 0.7 + 0.95 + 1.25 = 2.9, that equals a 1.208 damage modifier per second.(Source: wiki)

Even if you factor in the 10% higher base weapon damage of greatswords compared to daggers (~1,100 vs 1,000), the dagger deals more damage per second on its auto than the greatsword does. But that is not even taking into account the crit damage buff of 15% on the first two hits of the chain and the good might stacking from the last hit, which arguably outweighs the greatswords vuln application.The only advantage greatsword's AA has over dagger's is that it cleaves 3 targets instead of 2.

tldr; Dagger AA > Greatsword AA if you do the maths. A nerf to its damage is perfectly reasonable.

@Toron.4856 said:

@Little Howl.5231 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:I don't understand why people use dagger over axe

Evis is easy to land but I guess dagger does offer more boon removal, I think I just prefer higher damage numbers / burst potential. Throw Axe skill has a count now and can hit for 4-5k easily + the invuln stacking and extremely high damage AA chain + with discipline build you get that extra andren gain and crit damage and Brawlers Recovery combined with Cleansing Sigils is also nice.

Also Evis in Winds = Dazing strike, cool little combo, shield bash, evis, full counter, evis so basically stun daze daze daze daze