So, do you like the phantasm rework?

We had a bit of time to play with it, explore the new system and craft builds with it. Do you think the rework is good?Please explain your answer I'm curious what the rest of the mesmers thinks.

Note: This is not a question about balance as balance is a different story!

Alright I'll go ahead and explain my answer first:I've always wanted them to move away from passive gameplay. Through this update mesmer has made one big step into that direction.The new rotations on phantasm builds (as chrono) and clone build (as mirage) including phantasm skills are much more fun as there is more to do then just pressing 3 buttons for 90% of the fight.I really enjoy the new playstyle and for open world mesmer can finally burst down veterans/elites/champions decently because phantasms don't need to ramp up.

It made mesmer way more active and fun to play.

Yes but I think there still needs to be some tweaking.

The focus phantasm just seems clunky and weak and I'd rather have the old one back with an aoe and axe throw attack of the mesmer.

I don't like that some phantasms give the mesmer an attack at the start of the cast (like throwing a greatsword, burning foes around you) and others don't (focus phantasm, utility phantasms). I think there needs to be more consistency.

In general I think phantasms should take less time to execute their skills or live longer because they can be interrupted easily or die during their attacks (especially in pvp this is a problem so people rather take GS and staff instead of sword, focus or pistol phantasms.)The torch phantasm can also be dodged easily because its attack doesn't have a great range and it always used the attack in melee range so it gets killed or interrupted very easily.

This is the most fun I've had with the game.

Its opened up several builds across multiple game modes, Greatsword is actually a good weapon to use at range now, we actually have all 5 weapon skills open to us at once, shatters are useful in power builds in PvE so we can use the traits related to them, we can clear content faster then a snails pace, we can get creative with the builds we use to clear PvE content now and Mirage and Chrono now actually offer varied playstyles, at least in PvE. Its even better and more fun then I imagined a possible rework would be like.

I absolutely love the new phantasms. This is how they should have been from the beginning imo, they flow so much better now. I also love the new traits to support them in illusions and the new double zerker GS trait in dom. All good stuff with excellent synergy. I can finally play power without being locked into the dumb one trick insta gib build. Power staff is on par with GS, Chaos is suddenly viable again. Phants offer heavy, sustained, multi-target dps. You can time big bursts and the damage ramps nicely with might, but it doesn't feel OP since you're not relying on stuns and actually have to time your attacks and be aware of the team situation. Fantastic.

Now they just need to give us back the conditions on clone death traits and I'll be shouting anet's praises from the mountain tops.

I voted No, i mean: i like it that we can have a "more active" gameplay, but for me it feels just like pressing F1 is the only way to make dmg.....i liked the old phamtasms more...

Now i feel like i have no real choice....in fact: i have played some days after the update, but now i look "active" for other games, since mesmer was the only class with story, gear, more bag slots, map completition, etc...so i didn´t login for a week now....doing all the stuff that i have done in 3 years with my mes with a new char is not my style, i like it to stick with one character....and since my mes now feels less "funny for me" to play......well.....maybe i come back when i see that they make some changes we all requested...there were enough polls about what should be changed....nothing happened there...sooo....i will wait and see.... at least i have not found a game where i shout "this is it", GW2 seems to be the best on the market....its just...well...hard to explain, but my main is no longer my main and lvling a twink is nothing that i want do now, so maybe after a month...or two....i will login again, but now i need some time....

i say no, because i'd of preferred a mechanic not tied to the liability that is destructible NPCsis it better than what we had before?most likely, in many waysjust... i dunno, it still feels... iffy, after so long of dealing with them, and after 2 E-Specs that didn't trade out the mechanic, it's just a little... eh at this point

Mesmer was the first class I started with when I played for the first time. It blew my mind when I was in the tutorial with the scepter, spamming clones of myself. It gave me the impression that the class would play like an "army of me".

Unfortunately, it turned out those clones were fodder and the phantasms were little more than pink turrets that died with their target, and they both competed against each other. I soon moved on to other classes, and even when I decided to choose a main from each armour weight, my light ended up being ele. I tried to pick mesmer up again when chrono launched, since I've always had a soft spot for supports in MMOs, but that gap was always there, so I couldn't enjoy myself.

This update, and specifically the power chrono build it created, is exactly what I had imagined, and ever since the patch, I have been playing mesmer almost exclusively. On one hand, I regret not sticking with mesmer more, but on the other, I have what I wanted all along, and it's an opportunity to get a fresh look on the game through what is effectively a new class.

@"Hibiskus.8294" said:I voted No, i mean: i like it that we can have a "more active" gameplay, but for me it feels just like pressing F1 is the only way to make dmg.....i liked the old phamtasms more...

That's not even true for chrono, let alone mirage.

By the rest of your post, I assume you are talking pve, maybe solo pve? A max F1 shatter does less damage than any of the offensive phantasms, and phantasms hit twice. It seems you are stuck in the old mentality where summoning 1-2 phantasm and waiting on cooldowns was the norm. Spam your phantasms, and don't be afraid to use your heal to spam them again. If anything, I have a problem with how fast things die that the second spawm of phantasms goes to waste as well as all the clones that were summoned, so I often just shatter for the little bit of alacrity to not let them go completely to waste.

No!I actually stop playing almost at all after mesmer changes and a lot of my guildies too sadly :<I loved mesmer and was playing mainly mesmer.

The positive:It is a really good change for mirage. He doesnt have to avoid using phantasms skills to not lose dmg. It actually made mirage more fun. You don't have to be afraid of missclicking.

The sad part is ...Maybe it is not ONLY the phantasms change but also alarcity change.... Chronomancer now is such a hore.I LOVED my chronomancer. Right now its just so boring. You have to click your rotation faster due to 50% alarcity on yourself and it makes no room for freedom, fun or blocks without loosing buffs uptime and dmg.I feel like right now Im just there to stand and click all buttons in the right order again and again an again and again.Previously I never had the hard "rotation". I just clicked what I felt like in the moment and still got 85%+ alarcity and quickness upkeep and dmg close to what qtfy was showing.Now I am just a spam bot sadly : / Not fun at all. Never thought almost no CDes could kill fun :/

@Kas.3509 said:Now I am just a spam bot sadly : / Not fun at all. Never thought almost no CDes could kill fun :/

Alternatively you could learn the rotations and skills properly and have the flexibility anyway shrug.

I love the changes. Some of them missed their mark sure, some phantasms need work. But before this, our class mechanic was at odds with itself, and it no longer is. This was a huge step forward for the class as a whole, and its only going to get better from here.

@"Hibiskus.8294" said:I voted No, i mean: i like it that we can have a "more active" gameplay, but for me it feels just like pressing F1 is the only way to make dmg.....i liked the old phamtasms more...

Now i feel like i have no real choice....in fact: i have played some days after the update, but now i look "active" for other games,

Not to argue with your opinion - because let's face it, a class rework is always highly subjective - but IMO you were "done with" GW2 before this change.I've been through half a dozen MMOs now, each played for multiple years (started with EQ1 back when Kunark had just released), and what always happens is that as one grows disillusioned with their current MMO, the purely rote aspect of their daily gameplay still keeps them logging in. That is, this daily list of things has become part of your daily route IRL.

But, when something then upsets it, say a new expansion coming out with massive reworks to existing classes (GW2 didn't have that yet, it only piles on top) or a bigger class change, then you are forcibly taken out of that daily routine because your button presses change. Like it or not. And that makes you take a step back and realize that you were no longer all that impressed with the game anyhow.

This is why the big player losses often happen a short while after an expansion: It's when players realize that now that they've seen the new places once, they feel nothing holding them here. Their daily routine has been broken up by the expansion, and the new content couldn't hold them there long enough to build a new one.

I vote no, mostly because I can't do the maximum DPS rotations with it. People are getting 42k bursts and and 33k sustained DPS, and I can barely break a 30k burst after several hours of trying. After grinding the start of the fight on a golem, over and over again, food wasting away, for hours, and I still can't do it, then those numbers effectively don't exist for me. Power mesmer was a DPS loss for me this patch. "More active playstyle" effectively translates into "Unassailable by anyone who isn't super elite or uses macros".

@"Kas.3509" said:I LOVED my chronomancer. Right now its just so boring. You have to click your rotation faster due to 50% alarcity on yourself and it makes no room for freedom, fun or blocks without loosing buffs uptime and dmg.I feel like right now Im just there to stand and click all buttons in the right order again and again an again and again.Previously I never had the hard "rotation". I just clicked what I felt like in the moment and still got 85%+ alarcity and quickness upkeep and dmg close to what qtfy was showing.Now I am just a spam bot sadly : / Not fun at all. Never thought almost no CDes could kill fun :/

So how did you feel when alacrity was 66% then? And that was gamewide, not chrono-exclusive. Seems like you are complaining just for the sake of complaining.

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@"Kas.3509" said:I LOVED my chronomancer. Right now its just so boring. You have to click your rotation faster due to 50% alarcity on yourself and it makes no room for freedom, fun or blocks without loosing buffs uptime and dmg.I feel like right now Im just there to stand and click all buttons in the right order again and again an again and again.Previously I never had the hard "rotation". I just clicked what I felt like in the moment and still got 85%+ alarcity and quickness upkeep and dmg close to what qtfy was showing.Now I am just a spam bot sadly : / Not fun at all. Never thought almost no CDes could kill fun :/

That was the time I didnt play. I had a 1-2 year gap in playing in my 4 years GW2 career. I'd hate it. I actually liked chrono with 33% alarcity for everyone and with no phantasms rework. Chrono was waaaay more fun back then. I loved buffing and tanking in raids. But the truth is mirage really benefits from the phantasms change so...

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@"Kas.3509" said:Now I am just a spam bot sadly : / Not fun at all. Never thought almost no CDes could kill fun :/

The thing is... I never had to memorize rotations to play effectively. I knew what my skills do and used them and everything was good. I CAN just memorize them like 99% community instead of using my brain while playing, but playing like that is not something that excites me.Also... I know what my skills are doing and I know what I am losing when I allow freedom currently. I lost very little before compared to what you lose now : P Sadly mirage became easier, because 1 missclick won't screw your dps, and chrono become more frustrating and boring, not even more difficult, just more spammerino.

I dont understand why people think that if you dont like something then you must do it wrong or youre "just" complaining. I said what I think because thats what this topic is for. I said the good AND the bad, not just complained too.I can still do everything I could do before. But its less fun on chrono now and more fun on mirage.Simple as that for me.I went from loving chrono specialization to hating playing it so I state an opinion , because I feel kinda unhappy.Yet I am not moaning over all forums and saying "anet you destroyed the game bla bla" so I have no idea why some people have problems with my opinion.Are they the people who cant stand if someone thinks different than them? People enjoy different things, deal with it.

Hi.While i understand the move to active gameplay i actually prefer that the game has the oportunity to play powerful minion strategies. So pushing out clones and phantasms to do sustained damage that actually kill the target while kiting is a nice option that should be powerful against non cleave oponents.

@Kas.3509 said:

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@Kas.3509 said:I LOVED my chronomancer. Right now its just so boring. You have to click your rotation faster due to 50% alarcity on yourself and it makes no room for freedom, fun or blocks without loosing buffs uptime and dmg.I feel like right now Im just there to stand and click all buttons in the right order again and again an again and again.Previously I never had the hard "rotation". I just clicked what I felt like in the moment and still got 85%+ alarcity and quickness upkeep and dmg close to what qtfy was showing.Now I am just a spam bot sadly : / Not fun at all. Never thought almost no CDes could kill fun :/

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Kas.3509 said:Now I am just a spam bot sadly : / Not fun at all. Never thought almost no CDes could kill fun :/

You didn't say you are just unhappy, you said you dumped the class, and so did your guildmates apparently.

And your whole reasoning is that chrono was "waaaay" more fun because the skills had 2-3 seconds longer recharge. Because that's the difference we are talking about, even a long cooldown like Well of Recall is only 3 seconds faster now, 23.3s now compared to 26.3s before.

Or maybe you just enjoyed the easy mode of avengers providing alacrity.

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I vote no, mostly because I can't do the maximum DPS rotations with it. People are getting 42k bursts and and 33k sustained DPS, and I can barely break a 30k burst after several hours of trying. After grinding the start of the fight on a golem, over and over again, food wasting away, for hours, and I still can't do it, then those numbers effectively don't exist for me. Power mesmer was a DPS loss for me this patch. "More active playstyle" effectively translates into "Unassailable by anyone who isn't super elite or uses macros".

........ You don't like the changed because you aren't as proficient with the new class yet? Seriously? You had years to perfect your chrono play, and more than 6 months to perfect your mirage play, and you've had less than 1 month to perfect your new mesmer play and you have already decided its trash because, even though the potential DPS is higher, you aren't as proficient with it yet? What kind of logic is that?

i like the rework for pvp and wvw but not for pve it just feels bad in pve but very rewording in pvp and wvw

@OriOri.8724 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I vote no, mostly because I can't do the maximum DPS rotations with it. People are getting 42k bursts and and 33k sustained DPS, and I can barely break a 30k burst after several hours of trying. After grinding the start of the fight on a golem, over and over again, food wasting away, for hours, and I still can't do it, then those numbers effectively don't exist for me. Power mesmer was a DPS loss for me this patch. "More active playstyle" effectively translates into "Unassailable by anyone who isn't super elite or uses macros".

Logic doesn’t matter. I’ve noticed that the majority of the people that complain about,or just straight dislike, the rework complain mostly because it’s a change. Remember the one person that was adamant that Mesmer dps was worse because they could only get between 8-15k dps on the golem? So many videos were posted in that thread showing 30k plus and they still would not recognize it. Why? They had to learn a new play style. Granted I don’t do PvE, but from my understanding the rotation isn’t hard to do. It’s a lot easier to not have to maintain phantasms and just summon them off cd.But that’s the crux of the problem, rather than go and summon three phantasms and essentially afk now there’s a bit more involved and the few that enjoyed that do not like actually being able to use the class mechanic without sacrificing dps. I keep expecting ithilwen to complain about it as they complain about every nerf but they’ve not they I’ve seen and if they are liking it then I really don’t see a problem with the patch.

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@Kas.3509 said:

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@Kas.3509 said:I LOVED my chronomancer. Right now its just so boring. You have to click your rotation faster due to 50% alarcity on yourself and it makes no room for freedom, fun or blocks without loosing buffs uptime and dmg.I feel like right now Im just there to stand and click all buttons in the right order again and again an again and again.Previously I never had the hard "rotation". I just clicked what I felt like in the moment and still got 85%+ alarcity and quickness upkeep and dmg close to what qtfy was showing.Now I am just a spam bot sadly : / Not fun at all. Never thought almost no CDes could kill fun :/

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Kas.3509 said:Now I am just a spam bot sadly : / Not fun at all. Never thought almost no CDes could kill fun :/

i have no problems with keeping up alarcity because imo its easier now with share working on it. On some places when ranged tactics was in place (e.g. Deimos) keeping alarcity up is now easily possible and its as easy as it was with phantasms in melee situations.But yeah those 2-3 secs on every skill is a lot, because in whole rotation it meant like 10 secs of freedom or more. I could switch skills how I wanted and felt like, switch which one to cast and I had more freedom with what utility skills should I take.

I said I dumped chrono, because thats the truth. Am I not supposed to tell how things are with me and my friends?I also said I enjoy mirage more now. I feel that it was constructive opinion. Sorry if it offends you, but thats the truth and how I feel. I hate the change for chrono and it dropped from most fun class to least fun from the classes I played.

I vote yes. But damage is underwhelming still. I don't they intended Chronomancer to really be our 'power' spec. Hopefully we'll get a properly tuned one with the release of another xpac. I was really looking forward to a more interactive/rewarding Mirage build with some interactions with the new phats. No such luck.. :\ Hopefully we get some buffs somewhere along the rode for Mirage.

I really like the rework. I've been levelling a mesmer exclusively to get the spec ascended weapons. I haven't enjoyed playing the class at all, it seemed awkard, overly complex without much reward and rather boring in terms of skill usage. Since the change, the playstyle has really clicked with me.I've gone from begrudging play to considering playing mes as my main. More skills are impactful, I can survive and adapt to different situations better. It just seems to make more sense now, it's more intuitive.

My only complaint is that the class seems to have to sacrifice a lot to gain any reasonable condi-cleanse. Cleansing and CC seem very all or nothing, but maybe I'll work it out with experience.

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I vote no, mostly because I can't do the maximum DPS rotations with it. People are getting 42k bursts and and 33k sustained DPS, and I can barely break a 30k burst after several hours of trying. After grinding the start of the fight on a golem, over and over again, food wasting away, for hours, and I still can't do it, then those numbers effectively don't exist for me. Power mesmer was a DPS loss for me this patch. "More active playstyle" effectively translates into "Unassailable by anyone who isn't super elite or uses macros".

"I don't like the rework because I'm bad at chrono"

:extremethonk: