Open World Domination: Mirage - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Open World Domination: Mirage

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  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So, this is pretty cool. I got into a discussion with one of my YouTube viewers and it turned me on to the idea of using deceptive evasion for clone generation rather than self-deception. The jury is still out on how much of an impact this will have on overall damage output, but for my first test of the new setup inspired by that discussion I went after the one HoT HP champion that has so far eluded me on my viper Mirage: Mushroom Queen.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    So, this is pretty cool. I got into a discussion with one of my YouTube viewers and it turned me on to the idea of using deceptive evasion for clone generation rather than self-deception. The jury is still out on how much of an impact this will have on overall damage output, but for my first test of the new setup inspired by that discussion I went after the one HoT HP champion that has so far eluded me on my viper Mirage: Mushroom Queen.

    Personally I can't dream of using Axe mirage without deceptive evasion. It's like toast without butter or fish without chips.

    Also that frees you up to take Renewing Oasis for additional sustain. :)

    IH hybrid | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    So, this is pretty cool. I got into a discussion with one of my YouTube viewers and it turned me on to the idea of using deceptive evasion for clone generation rather than self-deception. The jury is still out on how much of an impact this will have on overall damage output, but for my first test of the new setup inspired by that discussion I went after the one HoT HP champion that has so far eluded me on my viper Mirage: Mushroom Queen.

    Personally I can't dream of using Axe mirage without deceptive evasion. It's like toast without butter or fish without chips.

    Also that frees you up to take Renewing Oasis for additional sustain. :)

    I think you're right. I am just learning as I go! I am uploading a video of a solo kill of Adal, Unyielding Firmament as we speak. This is another boss I hadn't managed a solo kill of previously. It appears this is working better! Will share the video once it's uploaded.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Okay, here we go with another one I hadn't beaten before. Champion Adal, Unyielding Firmament bounty solo kill on Viper Mirage (chaos 3-2-1, Dueling 2-2-3, Mirage 2-3-1):

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ley-Charged Ooze

  • @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Okay, here we go with another one I hadn't beaten before. Champion Adal, Unyielding Firmament bounty solo kill on Viper Mirage (chaos 3-2-1, Dueling 2-2-3, Mirage 2-3-1):

    I think that's the third build in this thread now? :)
    I'm glad you're still fine-tuning what works for your playstyle.

    Does the 100 or so extra condition damage you get from Chaotic Transference make such a difference for you that you take it over getting Protection with Chaos Armor and the 20% CD reduction staff you get from Chaotic Dampening?

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BrazenNL.9857 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Okay, here we go with another one I hadn't beaten before. Champion Adal, Unyielding Firmament bounty solo kill on Viper Mirage (chaos 3-2-1, Dueling 2-2-3, Mirage 2-3-1):

    I think that's the third build in this thread now? :)
    I'm glad you're still fine-tuning what works for your playstyle.

    Does the 100 or so extra condition damage you get from Chaotic Transference make such a difference for you that you take it over getting Protection with Chaos Armor and the 20% CD reduction staff you get from Chaotic Dampening?

    I was using CD when I had two chaos storms, but I didn't feel like I was getting enough out of it with only one. But I doubt it makes a huge difference either way.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BrazenNL.9857 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Okay, here we go with another one I hadn't beaten before. Champion Adal, Unyielding Firmament bounty solo kill on Viper Mirage (chaos 3-2-1, Dueling 2-2-3, Mirage 2-3-1):

    I think that's the third build in this thread now? :)
    I'm glad you're still fine-tuning what works for your playstyle.

    Does the 100 or so extra condition damage you get from Chaotic Transference make such a difference for you that you take it over getting Protection with Chaos Armor and the 20% CD reduction staff you get from Chaotic Dampening?

    Let's make it four, shall we? Tweaking builds is fun!

    Here is my first experiment adding Chaotic Dampening to my build. A worthy challenge: Dorrik the Wanderer with Exploiter and Polluter buffs!

    Did CD make the difference in this fight? I can't say for certain, but it seems plausible. Dorrik is scary. I've never managed to defeat him before and I wasn't quite convinced that it would be possible for me. Yet, despite terrible DPS due to the exploiter/polluter draw and very defensive play (LoS, kiting) due to the extreme offense of this particular boss resulting in the fight going nearly the entire 10 minute distance, I somehow managed to avoid going down and even pulled off a win with 6 seconds remaining on the timer!

    I also stayed in the ring for 10 minutes with the Forged Wildhound using this build. That's another very formidable boss. It's clear the build is pretty resilient, and CD contributes something to that. Thanks for bringing it up! I've gotten a lot of mileage out of other players providing their perspectives and questioning my choices and I'm improving every day as a result!

    Chaos 3-3-1
    Dueling 2-2-3
    Mirage 2-3-1

  • Alexei.4698Alexei.4698 Member ✭✭

    Hey, Aliam. Not sure I understand the purpose of Chaotic Interruption in the Chaos line as your GM. Can you enlighten me?

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alexei.4698 said:
    Hey, Aliam. Not sure I understand the purpose of Chaotic Interruption in the Chaos line as your GM. Can you enlighten me?

    I don't shatter much and the shatters I use most give me boons I already have plenty of, but I do have a few interrupts which I mostly use for breakbars. The immob adds extra CC and I can actually use the might. That's my thinking on it. Am I missing something?

  • Alexei.4698Alexei.4698 Member ✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Alexei.4698 said:
    Hey, Aliam. Not sure I understand the purpose of Chaotic Interruption in the Chaos line as your GM. Can you enlighten me?

    I don't shatter much and the shatters I use most give me boons I already have plenty of, but I do have a few interrupts which I mostly use for breakbars. The immob adds extra CC and I can actually use the might. That's my thinking on it. Am I missing something?

    Well, you're 100x the player I am, I assume I am the one missing something :) Where are the interrupts coming from?

    I use pretty much the same build (played much more poorly, lol) but have Bountiful Disillusionment as my GM. I don't shatter much either, which is why I ask. I F4 if I need my bacon saved, F3 if a breakbar needs help, and I F1 to spike a little damage and get some Might if I can replace my illusions immediately.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alexei.4698 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Alexei.4698 said:
    Hey, Aliam. Not sure I understand the purpose of Chaotic Interruption in the Chaos line as your GM. Can you enlighten me?

    I don't shatter much and the shatters I use most give me boons I already have plenty of, but I do have a few interrupts which I mostly use for breakbars. The immob adds extra CC and I can actually use the might. That's my thinking on it. Am I missing something?

    Well, you're 100x the player I am, I assume I am the one missing something :) Where are the interrupts coming from?

    I use pretty much the same build (played much more poorly, lol) but have Bountiful Disillusionment as my GM. I don't shatter much either, which is why I ask. I F4 if I need my bacon saved, F3 if a breakbar needs help, and I F1 to spike a little damage and get some Might if I can replace my illusions immediately.

    Well, mostly from the signet really. I don't think the interrupt on torch phantasm triggers this since the source would be the phantasm? Not sure. I guess BD would be better, but it doesn't feel very useful either way. Honestly, I don't like my trait choices in that tier much at all and wish I could get more out of them!

    And I don't doubt that I play well, but I am quite new to the class having only really played Mirage. I'm also mostly a solo player and I don't do any high-end content (raids, fractal CMs, etc.) where people care about sharpening up their game. So there's probably a lot of things about my game that could be improved from trait choices to rotation and timing! I'm just learning as I go!

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alexei.4698 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Alexei.4698 said:
    Hey, Aliam. Not sure I understand the purpose of Chaotic Interruption in the Chaos line as your GM. Can you enlighten me?

    I don't shatter much and the shatters I use most give me boons I already have plenty of, but I do have a few interrupts which I mostly use for breakbars. The immob adds extra CC and I can actually use the might. That's my thinking on it. Am I missing something?

    Well, you're 100x the player I am, I assume I am the one missing something :) Where are the interrupts coming from?

    I use pretty much the same build (played much more poorly, lol) but have Bountiful Disillusionment as my GM. I don't shatter much either, which is why I ask. I F4 if I need my bacon saved, F3 if a breakbar needs help, and I F1 to spike a little damage and get some Might if I can replace my illusions immediately.

    Just to follow up. I switched over to BD. Maybe I don't use shatters much because of ANet's inexplicable decision to completely ruin them for damage output with condi mirage builds, but I use them more than I use interrupts! I don't expect this to be a game changer, but I expect I will get more out of BD than CI. Thanks for the help!

    So, here's a new video using chaos 3-3-3, dueling 2-2-3, mirage 2-3-1:

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm really proud of this one. It took me many attempts before finally succeeding. Obviously, there are easier ways to defeat this boss that would be both faster and a great deal less dangerous than literally feeding him ammo with a condi build! But that's not how we do things, is it?

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Either I'm really lucky or they've done something to fix the ambush frequency on Sandswept Isles bounties. So here's a new video from the new map: Crystalwing

  • Shadow.1345Shadow.1345 Member
    edited April 11, 2018

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Alexei.4698 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Alexei.4698 said:
    Hey, Aliam. Not sure I understand the purpose of Chaotic Interruption in the Chaos line as your GM. Can you enlighten me?

    I don't shatter much and the shatters I use most give me boons I already have plenty of, but I do have a few interrupts which I mostly use for breakbars. The immob adds extra CC and I can actually use the might. That's my thinking on it. Am I missing something?

    Well, you're 100x the player I am, I assume I am the one missing something :) Where are the interrupts coming from?

    I use pretty much the same build (played much more poorly, lol) but have Bountiful Disillusionment as my GM. I don't shatter much either, which is why I ask. I F4 if I need my bacon saved, F3 if a breakbar needs help, and I F1 to spike a little damage and get some Might if I can replace my illusions immediately.

    Just to follow up. I switched over to BD. Maybe I don't use shatters much because of ANet's inexplicable decision to completely ruin them for damage output with condi mirage builds, but I use them more than I use interrupts! I don't expect this to be a game changer, but I expect I will get more out of BD than CI. Thanks for the help!

    So, here's a new video using chaos 3-3-3, dueling 2-2-3, mirage 2-3-1:

    I love your build and have been using it quite a bit but I find CI better than BD even though you get more boons from shatters because of the break bars. If you look at the conditions it applies, all of them act as DoTs on the break bar. So each time you use something on the break bar it applies immob and one other soft CC. Also the interrupt from Phantasmal Mage still procs traits from your specialization lines because they had to fix a bug that it wasn't procing Confounding Suggestions. If it procs that trait it will proc Chaotic Interruption as well. Skills from your phantasms count as skills from you. In comparison I find that better than the boons you get from shattering, even if the stability is really nice but not as much needed in PvE since Mirage Cloak will still protect you while CCed.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shadow.1345 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Alexei.4698 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Alexei.4698 said:
    Hey, Aliam. Not sure I understand the purpose of Chaotic Interruption in the Chaos line as your GM. Can you enlighten me?

    I don't shatter much and the shatters I use most give me boons I already have plenty of, but I do have a few interrupts which I mostly use for breakbars. The immob adds extra CC and I can actually use the might. That's my thinking on it. Am I missing something?

    Well, you're 100x the player I am, I assume I am the one missing something :) Where are the interrupts coming from?

    I use pretty much the same build (played much more poorly, lol) but have Bountiful Disillusionment as my GM. I don't shatter much either, which is why I ask. I F4 if I need my bacon saved, F3 if a breakbar needs help, and I F1 to spike a little damage and get some Might if I can replace my illusions immediately.

    Just to follow up. I switched over to BD. Maybe I don't use shatters much because of ANet's inexplicable decision to completely ruin them for damage output with condi mirage builds, but I use them more than I use interrupts! I don't expect this to be a game changer, but I expect I will get more out of BD than CI. Thanks for the help!

    So, here's a new video using chaos 3-3-3, dueling 2-2-3, mirage 2-3-1:

    I love your build and have been using it quite a bit but I find CI better than BD even though you get more boons from shatters because of the break bars. If you look at the conditions it applies, all of them act as DoTs on the break bar. So each time you use something on the break bar it applies immob and one other soft CC. Also the interrupt from Phantasmal Mage still procs traits from your specialization lines because they had to fix a bug that it wasn't procing Confounding Suggestions. If it procs that trait it will proc Chaotic Interruption as well. Skills from your phantasms count as skills from you. In comparison I find that better than the boons you get from shattering, even if the stability is really nice but not as much needed in PvE since Mirage Cloak will still protect you while CCed.

    Thanks for the insight. I'm not sure which I prefer at this point. The boon generation overall is excellent with this build either way! But you may have a point. With chaos storm, phantasmal mage, the signet stun, and diversion you have access to many sources of interrupt to proc CI and those soft CCs add up! I will have to play around with both of them some more and see which feels right. It's hard to tell because either way you're just throwing boons on top of a good build!

  • schmots.6803schmots.6803 Member ✭✭✭

    I am new to Mesmer, and just unlocked Mirage. Only have the first three points unlocked so none of the utility skills yet. I can't follow what you are doing from your video. could you post your rotation, without acronyms as I don't know all the skills, so I can give it a try? I am really wanting a champ killer. My soulbeast works for core champions, but gets rolled over by HoT champions.

  • @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @BrazenNL.9857 said:
    Does the 100 or so extra condition damage you get from Chaotic Transference make such a difference for you that you take it over getting Protection with > Here is my first experiment adding Chaotic Dampening to my build. A worthy challenge: Dorrik the Wanderer with Exploiter and Polluter buffs!

    Did CD make the difference in this fight? I can't say for certain, but it seems plausible. Dorrik is scary. I've never managed to defeat him before and I wasn't quite convinced that it would be possible for me. Yet, despite terrible DPS due to the exploiter/polluter draw and very defensive play (LoS, kiting) due to the extreme offense of this particular boss resulting in the fight going nearly the entire 10 minute distance, I somehow managed to avoid going down and even pulled off a win with 6 seconds remaining on the timer!

    I also stayed in the ring for 10 minutes with the Forged Wildhound using this build. That's another very formidable boss. It's clear the build is pretty resilient, and CD contributes something to that. Thanks for bringing it up! I've gotten a lot of mileage out of other players providing their perspectives and questioning my choices and I'm improving every day as a result!

    Chaos 3-3-1
    Dueling 2-2-3
    Mirage 2-3-1

    That's exactly my build. Given that it's next to impossible to not drag other enemies into any fight, I like the survivability.

  • schmots.6803schmots.6803 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 - Wow, that is far more help and information than I am used to getting. I really appreciate it, and think its going to help me understand this class so much better, so thank you again.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @schmots.6803 said:
    @AliamRationem.5172 - Wow, that is far more help and information than I am used to getting. I really appreciate it, and think its going to help me understand this class so much better, so thank you again.

    Well, I've gotten plenty of help from other players commenting in this forum and on my youtube channel. What good is making all these videos if I can't share what I've learned with others?

    Having said that, mine is a bit of an odd perspective. I expect you'd get some different advice from a source more focused on instanced group PvE like raids/fractals. For instance, the guys over at snowcrows.com know how to put out maximum damage. So they use axe/torch, axe/pistol. They use the same stats (Viper) and sigils I do, but swap in Renegade runes for extra damage where I use Adventurer runes for more evasion. They also use the same trait lines I do, but their picks are all damage-oriented where mine tend to be more focused on survival.

    You're going to get a lot more damage out of their build, despite the similarities. And it's still quite survivable, especially in a group with a little bit of added support/healing from allies. The major issue for a solo player going up against tough challenges is that it really isn't feasible to stay at melee range 100% of the time without support! Using axe/torch, axe/pistol produces amazing damage...but you'll deal next to nothing if you're forced out to range for any reason, and prioritizing damage 100% is going to make you significantly more vulnerable in general.

    That's the difference between a full on raid DPS meta build and one that is similar, yet adapted for solo open world play.

  • schmots.6803schmots.6803 Member ✭✭✭

    I play 99.9999% solo in OpenWorld PVE so your survivability is right up my ally.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @schmots.6803 said:
    I play 99.9999% solo in OpenWorld PVE so your survivability is right up my ally.

    Well, that works out!

  • schmots.6803schmots.6803 Member ✭✭✭

    I don’t have the right gear yet, and I don’t even have a full trait line on mirage yet, but I see the survivability. I took down a champion wolf solo in old Tyria. Since I am not geared right it took quite some time. The fact that it kept calling adds that also called adds added to the difficulty, but I prevailed. That was seriously satisfying.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @schmots.6803 said:
    I don’t have the right gear yet, and I don’t even have a full trait line on mirage yet, but I see the survivability. I took down a champion wolf solo in old Tyria. Since I am not geared right it took quite some time. The fact that it kept calling adds that also called adds added to the difficulty, but I prevailed. That was seriously satisfying.

    Nice work!

  • Cameryn.5310Cameryn.5310 Member ✭✭✭

    This is the first time I've really ever truly enjoyed Mirage at end game for open world stuff, so thank you all.
    A few questions please:
    1. Is there any reason to rely on the staff, which to me is a nice ranged but rather lackluster weapon, instead of swapping to scepter/pistol as the second weapon combo? Seems to me that that gives me far more reliability.
    2. Infinite Horizon over Dune Cloak? I don't get this at all.
    3. Finally... I just do not get the point of using Crystal Sands... any input?

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cameryn.5310 said:
    This is the first time I've really ever truly enjoyed Mirage at end game for open world stuff, so thank you all.
    A few questions please:
    1. Is there any reason to rely on the staff, which to me is a nice ranged but rather lackluster weapon, instead of swapping to scepter/pistol as the second weapon combo? Seems to me that that gives me far more reliability.
    2. Infinite Horizon over Dune Cloak? I don't get this at all.
    3. Finally... I just do not get the point of using Crystal Sands... any input?

    1. Scepter. I don't think it does better damage than staff, has shorter range, grants no boons, no mobility, and it relies on confusion which is pretty much useless in PvE since the patch. I don't even think the ambush skill is any good. As far as I'm concerned, it's a broken weapon in all game modes. Also, staff phantasm > pistol phantasm.

    2. IH is superior in every way to DC. It deals more damage and protects your clones.

    3. Me neither. I expect it's slightly better damage than anything else you could use in that slot. However, for solo play Illusionary Ambush is a fantastic skill...not to mention very fun and mirage-y!

  • Cameryn.5310Cameryn.5310 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    1. Scepter. I don't think it does better damage than staff, has shorter range, grants no boons, no mobility, and it relies on confusion which is pretty much useless in PvE since the patch. I don't even think the ambush skill is any good. As far as I'm concerned, it's a broken weapon in all game modes. Also, staff phantasm > pistol phantasm.

    Okay, I just hate losing the pistol because I love playing with it, even if the torch is a bit better. :) But I think you're right in that you need some sort of ranged weapon in the open world... staff is probably the best option.

    1. Me neither. I expect it's slightly better damage than anything else you could use in that slot. However, for solo play Illusionary Ambush is a fantastic skill...not to mention very fun and mirage-y!

    I am playing with Illusionary Ambush and the two signets (condi dmg, condi duration). I see on your last gw2skills link you are foregoing the condi duration one in place of Arcane Thievery?

    I don't really care for any of the elite skills, because I hate reticles (when there's a lot on the screen it's hard to see the cursor) which rules out Jaunt, and Signet of Humility is really only good for breakbars. Which one would you recommend?

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cameryn.5310 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    1. Scepter. I don't think it does better damage than staff, has shorter range, grants no boons, no mobility, and it relies on confusion which is pretty much useless in PvE since the patch. I don't even think the ambush skill is any good. As far as I'm concerned, it's a broken weapon in all game modes. Also, staff phantasm > pistol phantasm.

    Okay, I just hate losing the pistol because I love playing with it, even if the torch is a bit better. :) But I think you're right in that you need some sort of ranged weapon in the open world... staff is probably the best option.

    1. Me neither. I expect it's slightly better damage than anything else you could use in that slot. However, for solo play Illusionary Ambush is a fantastic skill...not to mention very fun and mirage-y!

    I am playing with Illusionary Ambush and the two signets (condi dmg, condi duration). I see on your last gw2skills link you are foregoing the condi duration one in place of Arcane Thievery?

    I don't really care for any of the elite skills, because I hate reticles (when there's a lot on the screen it's hard to see the cursor) which rules out Jaunt, and Signet of Humility is really only good for breakbars. Which one would you recommend?

    The condi duration signet is better damage than arcane thievery, but AT does a lot. Condi transfer, boon strip, CC, quickness, and reflect on a very reasonable cooldown. I just find it an extremely versatile skill for solo play. I used to use the two signets along with IA like you're doing, but input from another player turned me on to the idea of using Arcane Thievery and I've never looked back since trying it (again, for solo open world play).

    Honestly, I don't know what to recommend aside from jaunt in the elite skill slot for mirage. The cooldowns are obnoxiously long on the other mesmer elites and even if they weren't I'd have a hard time justifying taking anything else for my build. Jaunt is just a very useful skill that suits mirage very well, in my opinion.

  • Oneira.7691Oneira.7691 Member ✭✭

    This is really great Aliam. After getting kind of burnt out on fractals, doing PvE open world like this looks like a nice change. Unfortunately all my ascended armor and weapons are Berserker, my Vipers stuff is exotic.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Oneira.7691 said:
    This is really great Aliam. After getting kind of burnt out on fractals, doing PvE open world like this looks like a nice change. Unfortunately all my ascended armor and weapons are Berserker, my Vipers stuff is exotic.

    It's no big deal. I've seen entire threads where they debate whether the difference between exotic and ascended is closer to 5% or 10% in actual play. Exotic should work perfectly well and you can craft ascended if/when you feel like it.

  • schmots.6803schmots.6803 Member ✭✭✭

    @Oneira.7691 said:
    This is really great Aliam. After getting kind of burnt out on fractals, doing PvE open world like this looks like a nice change. Unfortunately all my ascended armor and weapons are Berserker, my Vipers stuff is exotic.

    If it makes you feel better, till I get a viper set I’m running exotic carrion. And the 50s each set, not the 3g50s each set.

  • i don't have any ascended items, if i were to buy rabid/rampager exotics to gear up, what would be the best build for solo open world?

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ghxst.5749 said:
    i don't have any ascended items, if i were to buy rabid/rampager exotics to gear up, what would be the best build for solo open world?

    Reposting the build link:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnsnBNohFMDupBMMjlZjycEWhPoMAutkxv+7//H-jxxHQBDU5HAOFA7Y/h5p+z40HQrnAQGVCSGgq1A-e

    Don't overthink it. This is an open world build. Using the exotic version of any condition-based stat set will work with this setup. You will just deal less damage than you would using Viper stats (Ballpark around half the damage of Viper for Dire stats in open world play, based on the testing I've done).

  • Cameryn.5310Cameryn.5310 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Reposting the build link:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnsnBNohFMDupBMMjlZjycEWhPoMAutkxv+7//H-jxxHQBDU5HAOFA7Y/h5p+z40HQrnAQGVCSGgq1A-e

    Don't overthink it. This is an open world build. Using the exotic version of any condition-based stat set will work with this setup. You will just deal less damage than you would using Viper stats (Ballpark around half the damage of Viper for Dire stats in open world play, based on the testing I've done).

    And this is a great open world build. I have exotic Viper gear and I'm rarely, if ever, dying (except in the strongest meta events, mostly because I have trouble avoiding things!) The thing I love most about this is that I spend so much of my time avoiding incoming damage because I run it with the Orrian Truffle & Meat Stew food... that and the Sigils of Energy on my weapons allow me a LOT of time in the mirage cloak. :) I was previously having the most fun on my pistol-pistol thief, but I think I'm liking this Mirage the most now!

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cameryn.5310 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Reposting the build link:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnsnBNohFMDupBMMjlZjycEWhPoMAutkxv+7//H-jxxHQBDU5HAOFA7Y/h5p+z40HQrnAQGVCSGgq1A-e

    Don't overthink it. This is an open world build. Using the exotic version of any condition-based stat set will work with this setup. You will just deal less damage than you would using Viper stats (Ballpark around half the damage of Viper for Dire stats in open world play, based on the testing I've done).

    And this is a great open world build. I have exotic Viper gear and I'm rarely, if ever, dying (except in the strongest meta events, mostly because I have trouble avoiding things!) The thing I love most about this is that I spend so much of my time avoiding incoming damage because I run it with the Orrian Truffle & Meat Stew food... that and the Sigils of Energy on my weapons allow me a LOT of time in the mirage cloak. :) I was previously having the most fun on my pistol-pistol thief, but I think I'm liking this Mirage the most now!

    I used to play thief (daredevil) as well. I really seem to enjoy the fast, mobile playstyles based on active defense. Mirage is fast and mobile like thief, but a bit more complex and even more reliant on active defenses. I just love it! The fact that you can practice up and do such crazy things with it makes it even better!

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cameryn.5310 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Reposting the build link:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnsnBNohFMDupBMMjlZjycEWhPoMAutkxv+7//H-jxxHQBDU5HAOFA7Y/h5p+z40HQrnAQGVCSGgq1A-e

    Don't overthink it. This is an open world build. Using the exotic version of any condition-based stat set will work with this setup. You will just deal less damage than you would using Viper stats (Ballpark around half the damage of Viper for Dire stats in open world play, based on the testing I've done).

    And this is a great open world build. I have exotic Viper gear and I'm rarely, if ever, dying (except in the strongest meta events, mostly because I have trouble avoiding things!) The thing I love most about this is that I spend so much of my time avoiding incoming damage because I run it with the Orrian Truffle & Meat Stew food... that and the Sigils of Energy on my weapons allow me a LOT of time in the mirage cloak. :) I was previously having the most fun on my pistol-pistol thief, but I think I'm liking this Mirage the most now!

    I used to play thief (daredevil) as well. I really seem to enjoy the fast, mobile playstyles based on active defense. Mirage is fast and mobile like thief, but a bit more complex and even more reliant on active defenses. I just love it! The fact that you can practice up and do such crazy things with it makes it even better!

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They seem to have removed the Awakened Ambushes from bounties on the Sandswept Isles, so I've put up some videos of several of the bounty bosses on my channel. This guy is tons of fun to fight!

    Viper Mirage vs. Champion Magneton Manipulator

    I also put up videos of Emogg the Soulbeast, Ironshell, Crystalwing, and Vebis. I plan to do Oakenscorn as well, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting him by himself for a few minutes for a good solo video! I was super close on the Choya duo (that's a legendary one, isn't it?), but I went down at 2%... Try, try again!

  • Zin Dau.1749Zin Dau.1749 Member ✭✭✭

    This topic inspired me to try Axe Mirage. So I'm brewing my own version, aiming for high synergy between various mesmer and mirage traits, namely illusions, shatter, critical hit, conditions, and endurance.

    First my experimental build for reference:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnELDVohNoBeoBMMjFcjycBitRqMAWtfxP9n/6H-jBCBQB+TfjDV/JCnABA8kCa3hEgLK/ky+DUSJYAAEgN2it4FDsxNuxLexL2114G34Fv4F34F34FLDQ1aA-e

    Now explanations:

    • Trait lines are Dueling 113, Chaos 233, & Mirage 131.

    • Gear is somewhat budget and more fitting my style (e.g. I don't like to swap between axe and staff regularly, so the on-swap proc is unnecessary to me.)

    • Endurance and vigor: obviously Mirage's main attraction is to keep up endurance for continual dodges, evades, and ambushes. Coincidentally, Dueling line grants a free trait (Critical Infusion) that gives vigor on critical hit; thus incentive to raise precision to very high. Mirage also has a free trait (Nomad's Endurance) that when vigor is active, you also get bonus condition damage. Thus, more critical hits lead to renewed vigor and more condition damage without extra effort.

    • Precision: Dueling line partially involves improving and benefiting from critical hits. These benefits are passed on to your illusions. Free trait (Sharper Images) allows illusions to inflict bleeding on critical hits; if they crit a lot, that's a lot of stacks of bleed. Dueling trait Phantasmal Fury will grant additional 20% crit chance to phantasms; in this build, it's close to 100% crit chance for your phantasms.

    • Illusions: unique to mesmers, I think any mesmer build should consider a reliable method of generating a stream of illusions due to their versatility and importance to mesmer's game plan and survival. In this build, illusions will be useful in both offense and defense. As mentioned above, illusions will get to stack a bunch of bleeds on critical hits.

      As for defense--besides illusions naturally taking aggro and tanking for you--Chaos trait Illusionary Defense grants a buff that negates 5% of incoming damage whenever an illusion is summoned. This includes when a phantasm expires and is replaced by a clone; thus a phantasm would create two stacks of this effect over time. This trait stacks up to five times, for up to 25% less damage taken by you for 5 seconds. If you can keep making new illusions, theoretically that's permanent -25% 'shield'. Note you don't have to keep the clones around, so you can shatter without worrying about diminishing this defense.

      The steady stream of illusions will be generated by weapons skills, Signet of Illusions (every 10 seconds a new clone), Dueling trait Deceptive Evasion (makes a clone when you dodge), and Mirage trait Self-Deception (activating Deception skill creates a clone if another clone is active). In particular, Jaunt (Deception elite skill) has three charges, so practically full squad of clones at will; hence Jaunt single-handedly begets +2 clones and +10% damage reduction. (Moreover, Jaunt also removes one condition from you; perfect, since you definitely want some cleanse.)

    • Shatter: the main reason for clones to exist. Shattering clones provides various effect, including burst damage, CC (daze), and defensive buff (distortion). Furthermore, shatters can be improved markedly with traits. Dueling trait Blinding Dissipation adds blinds, Mirage free trait Nomad's Endurance adds vigor, Chaos trait Bountiful Disillusionment adds boon.

      With steady generation of clones, you should have plenty of clones to shatter at all times.

    • Survival: between dodge, evade, illusion tanking, healing, blind, distortion, interrupts, damage reduction, lose targeting, shadowstep, and even stealth, Mirage's survival is through the roof. Without losing any offense due to the high synergy as laid out above. Every action is both offensive and defensive in some way.

    Conclusion: Just played this for a few days, and I can already feel this is the most overpowered solo class I've played. I've soloed champ, vets, group of mobs--all at once--without trouble. I don't even fear anything any more; just rush headlong into any situation and mobs just drop like flies. I got burst, sustain damage, survival, CC, mobility, etc. Top notch offense and defense simultaneously.

    Reminder to self: I should also record my gameplay for post-game analysis. e.g. check dps, vigor up-time, etc.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2018

    @Zin Dau.1749 said:
    This topic inspired me to try Axe Mirage. So I'm brewing my own version, aiming for high synergy between various mesmer and mirage traits, namely illusions, shatter, critical hit, conditions, and endurance.

    First my experimental build for reference:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnELDVohNoBeoBMMjFcjycBitRqMAWtfxP9n/6H-jBCBQB+TfjDV/JCnABA8kCa3hEgLK/ky+DUSJYAAEgN2it4FDsxNuxLexL2114G34Fv4F34F34FLDQ1aA-e

    Now explanations:

    • Trait lines are Dueling 113, Chaos 233, & Mirage 131.

    • Gear is somewhat budget and more fitting my style (e.g. I don't like to swap between axe and staff regularly, so the on-swap proc is unnecessary to me.)

    • Endurance and vigor: obviously Mirage's main attraction is to keep up endurance for continual dodges, evades, and ambushes. Coincidentally, Dueling line grants a free trait (Critical Infusion) that gives vigor on critical hit; thus incentive to raise precision to very high. Mirage also has a free trait (Nomad's Endurance) that when vigor is active, you also get bonus condition damage. Thus, more critical hits lead to renewed vigor and more condition damage without extra effort.

    • Precision: Dueling line partially involves improving and benefiting from critical hits. These benefits are passed on to your illusions. Free trait (Sharper Images) allows illusions to inflict bleeding on critical hits; if they crit a lot, that's a lot of stacks of bleed. Dueling trait Phantasmal Fury will grant additional 20% crit chance to phantasms; in this build, it's close to 100% crit chance for your phantasms.

    • Illusions: unique to mesmers, I think any mesmer build should consider a reliable method of generating a stream of illusions due to their versatility and importance to mesmer's game plan and survival. In this build, illusions will be useful in both offense and defense. As mentioned above, illusions will get to stack a bunch of bleeds on critical hits.

      As for defense--besides illusions naturally taking aggro and tanking for you--Chaos trait Illusionary Defense grants a buff that negates 5% of incoming damage whenever an illusion is summoned. This includes when a phantasm expires and is replaced by a clone; thus a phantasm would create two stacks of this effect over time. This trait stacks up to five times, for up to 25% less damage taken by you for 5 seconds. If you can keep making new illusions, theoretically that's permanent -25% 'shield'. Note you don't have to keep the clones around, so you can shatter without worrying about diminishing this defense.

      The steady stream of illusions will be generated by weapons skills, Signet of Illusions (every 10 seconds a new clone), Dueling trait Deceptive Evasion (makes a clone when you dodge), and Mirage trait Self-Deception (activating Deception skill creates a clone if another clone is active). In particular, Jaunt (Deception elite skill) has three charges, so practically full squad of clones at will; hence Jaunt single-handedly begets +2 clones and +10% damage reduction. (Moreover, Jaunt also removes one condition from you; perfect, since you definitely want some cleanse.)

    • Shatter: the main reason for clones to exist. Shattering clones provides various effect, including burst damage, CC (daze), and defensive buff (distortion). Furthermore, shatters can be improved markedly with traits. Dueling trait Blinding Dissipation adds blinds, Mirage free trait Nomad's Endurance adds vigor, Chaos trait Bountiful Disillusionment adds boon.

      With steady generation of clones, you should have plenty of clones to shatter at all times.

    • Survival: between dodge, evade, illusion tanking, healing, blind, distortion, interrupts, damage reduction, lose targeting, shadowstep, and even stealth, Mirage's survival is through the roof. Without losing any offense due to the high synergy as laid out above. Every action is both offensive and defensive in some way.

    Conclusion: Just played this for a few days, and I can already feel this is the most overpowered solo class I've played. I've soloed champ, vets, group of mobs--all at once--without trouble. I don't even fear anything any more; just rush headlong into any situation and mobs just drop like flies. I got burst, sustain damage, survival, CC, mobility, etc. Top notch offense and defense simultaneously.

    Reminder to self: I should also record my gameplay for post-game analysis. e.g. check dps, vigor up-time, etc.

    Thanks for sharing!

    I decided to try out some of your ideas. I was able to improve my performance against this boss using Self-Deception along with Deceptive Evasion. However, I think I prefer Master of Manipulation and Mirror over Illusionary Defense and False Oasis. That reflect is extremely useful and I would rather heal for half as much, twice as often! Also, I run Arcane Thievery for my open world build, which also benefits from Master of Manipulation. The uptime on Illusionary Defense was decent, though. Paired with protection, this could mitigate a lot of damage.

    I'm calling your build the "Many Man" build! I'll be trying it out on some bosses I haven't beaten yet to see if I can pull a breakthrough. I think Aszar, Swinging Pendulum will make a good test. I have gone the distance with him before, but due to Djinn damage reduction and a poor unstable magic draw, I was only able to get him to 25% before time ran out. If this variant really does produce better damage, I think I have a good shot at pulling off a victory as long as I get a little luck on unstable magic. And Aszar will definitely test my defenses with this build as well!

    Here is my failed attempt on Aszar using my earlier build. We'll see if I can do better with this setup.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2018

    I also tried out using Signet of the Ether along with Illusionary Defense in the Many Man build. I actually broke 10k DPS with that! Not bad for such a defensive setup!

    Update: Unfortunately, when I moved up to bosses that can put a lot more pressure on me (i.e. Aszar), I wasn't able to get by on the heal-on-summon effect and 35 seconds is an awfully long time to stretch for a heal! I think I'm still leaning toward Mirror here. Mirror with Illusionary Defense? Master of Manipulation is probably better, but it's worth a try!

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So, I tried a few variations to see what I could come up with in open world play.

    Chaos 2-3-1
    Dueling 2-2-3
    Mirage 2-3-1

    This setup is only one trait different from my previous build, but it seems a little bit more survivable without sacrificing damage. I also tried it with Mirage 1-3-1. I didn't notice a big difference in terms of damage or survivability, so I'm thinking I would prefer the 2-3-1 setup for regen uptime and a little condition defense.

    I also gave the illusions line a try again. As expected, it didn't feel as survivable (Although it was more than adequate!). Damage seemed comparable. So I'm not ready to recommend illusions over chaos for open world.

    Basically, I did a lot of running around in circles and the only change I'm still considering is Illusionary Defense. I wasn't expecting it to have much of an impact, but I've been surprised by the impact of minor defensive traits on Mirage in solo open world play before. The fact that you don't take a lot of hits makes the impact of even 15% damage reduction a lot easier to notice!

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I haven't managed my Aszar kill yet, but I did put up a new one using Illusionary Defense. Damage seemed pretty decent considering how dangerous it is to stay close to this guy. Illusionary Defense may have helped take the edge off of any damage that made it through my defenses, but I'm not going to commit to that interpretation just yet! All in all, a pretty easy kill of what can be a very dangerous boss. The build is good!

  • kyllar.6907kyllar.6907 Member ✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I haven't managed my Aszar kill yet, but I did put up a new one using Illusionary Defense. Damage seemed pretty decent considering how dangerous it is to stay close to this guy. Illusionary Defense may have helped take the edge off of any damage that made it through my defenses, but I'm not going to commit to that interpretation just yet! All in all, a pretty easy kill of what can be a very dangerous boss. The build is good!

    I love watching your videos they are all awesome, I don’t have the gear, skill, or experience as you and struggle with melee against bosses but I do use your builds as inspiration. I currently use gs/staff the most so I can stay away and kite, and live lol, but am thinking of swapping gs with scepter and maybe pistol just to try. I am working on viper gear and once I get more pieces I will work on ax/torch again. Keep post videos cause I always learn something when watching them.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kyllar.6907 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I haven't managed my Aszar kill yet, but I did put up a new one using Illusionary Defense. Damage seemed pretty decent considering how dangerous it is to stay close to this guy. Illusionary Defense may have helped take the edge off of any damage that made it through my defenses, but I'm not going to commit to that interpretation just yet! All in all, a pretty easy kill of what can be a very dangerous boss. The build is good!

    I love watching your videos they are all awesome, I don’t have the gear, skill, or experience as you and struggle with melee against bosses but I do use your builds as inspiration. I currently use gs/staff the most so I can stay away and kite, and live lol, but am thinking of swapping gs with scepter and maybe pistol just to try. I am working on viper gear and once I get more pieces I will work on ax/torch again. Keep post videos cause I always learn something when watching them.

    You might consider the staff/staff setup if you're going for a survivable condi ranged build. Unfortunately, scepter...needs some love. But then again, it never hurts to try something different even if you've tried it before! Sometimes it's the just the right time! I'm always tweaking things to see if maybe there's an angle I hadn't considered previously.

  • kyllar.6907kyllar.6907 Member ✭✭

    I have done staff/staff and yes from a survival standpoint it’s great but I enjoy the dps burst when dealing with trash mobs although people can say what they want staff dps isn’t all that bad. I am really wanting to get into being able to survive in melee range but just not there yet although I am getting better.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kyllar.6907 said:
    I have done staff/staff and yes from a survival standpoint it’s great but I enjoy the dps burst when dealing with trash mobs although people can say what they want staff dps isn’t all that bad. I am really wanting to get into being able to survive in melee range but just not there yet although I am getting better.

    It all depends on context. When you're able to hang in at melee range, axe does far better damage. But in solo play, that isn't always feasible. That's where staff comes into play and I completely agree that for how powerful it is defensively, the damage is decent.

    If you haven't already, take a look back through this thread. I did some explanation of how to use the build including some tips on axe survival.

  • Zin Dau.1749Zin Dau.1749 Member ✭✭✭

    For 'Many Man' build, could consider replacing Staff and Chaos line, with Scepter/Sword and Illusions line. S/S will give two great burst damage skills, two blocks, and clone generator AA. You can stay at mid to long range in fights.

    Illusions traits 1-1-3. Mind Wrack shatter becomes ammo, so you can do more shatter bursts. Create clone when you stealth (e.g. torch 4 and signet of midnight). Then faster recharge on scepter (more blocks and burst).

    Dueling traits 1-3-3. Phantasms gain fury. Illusionary Swordsman hits 8 times, so 8 chances to crit and cause bleed from Sharper Images. Faster recharge on sword; cast iSwordsman every 12 seconds, twice as often as iMage from the torch.

    Without Chaos, you lose passive protection, but rely on blocks that may also return damage. Fits the MO of offense and defense with a single action.

  • kyllar.6907kyllar.6907 Member ✭✭

    Thanks for the input I am always looking to improve and thanks again Aliam I always enjoy reading your post and yes I read the very detailed post and tried it out with some success, my biggest problem I believe is timing but that comes with practice. Thanks again

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