Almost in War.9326 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Claw of the Khan-UrThe Claw of the Khan-Ur is an ancient charr artifact that resided within the ruins of Ascalon City. It is described as a ungue with two blades jutting forward and two blades backwards, set with four gems; red, black, gray, and gold, for each of the children of the first Khan-Ur.Also, this is the Centurion's Claw from HoMI'd say it's quite obvious.Although, I'm not sure I fear they'll just throw it at us without any lore involved around it. I mean... it's almost the Excalibur of Charr culture Can't we have something like the Shining Blade, an explanation of why we are now using it or something.I'm still gonna craft it regardless, I'm a #CharrMasterRace supporter after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 The main thing against it is that the Claw of the Khan-Ur is said to have literal parts of the Khan-Ur's claw in it from one of the descriptions, IIRC.So it could be a replica of the Claw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I hope what they showed was just the Precursor because it is definitely one or two steps back from the awesomeness that is the claw focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almost in War.9326 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 @"Oglaf.1074" said:I hope what they showed was just the Precursor because it is definitely one or two steps back from the awesomeness that is the claw focus.I doubt it. It has smoke effects like Howler, so I guess this is the legendary. I hope there are other effects but I guess they went for a more "realistic" weapon, instead of something like... Flame of War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Another thing I noted, is that it's awfully small for the description of the Claw of the Khan-Ur. Ghosts of Ascalon describes it as a bit unwieldy, easily able to cut enemies and wielder and, IIRC, wielded in two hands, making it seem more bulky than some simple dagger.That, and the missing fourth gem in the dagger, implies to me that this is a replica rather than the original unlike with The Shining Blade.Or ArenaNet screwed up and forgot the climax of their best novel and how Riona Grady was injured from using the Claw of the Khan-Ur herself. The description there also implied two of the four blades were bent towards the user IIRC. Though it's been a long while since I read the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almost in War.9326 Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:That, and the missing fourth gem in the daggerI think I see four gems, next to the red gem there's the black one I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 @Almost in War.9326 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:That, and the missing fourth gem in the daggerI think I see four gems, next to the red gem there's the black one I believe.Correct. It is there, just a bit blended in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 My main complaint is that they used an Asura to reveal it. This REALLY should have been a Charr modeling it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I like the brief speculation that the charr in the trailer on the ground could have a tie in to the dagger and why we're seeing it this patch. So far it doesn't look like something I would want to pursue but perhaps we haven't seen it all yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castigator.3470 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 So that is what Smodur has been up to. He has ordered the creation of replica, to sell them to the guilds and boost his economy! :) Joking aside it is pretty clear from the description. The size may not be accurate, but it is definitely modeled after the Claw.I can't tell, whether or not this goes any deeper. Is this a single standalone item? Does it hint the direction of the next expansion? Will we see the rise of an actual Khan-Ur?What would this do to the internal relations of the Legions, aswell as the relations of the Charr and everyone else?As I said in a discussion about Elona, a unified Kingdom of Elona, not based on Joko's rule of suppression and arrested development, would be one of the great powers of Tyrian politics. A unified Charr Empire would be a superpower.Depending on the leadership, this might be a boon, or a condition to the world of Tyria at large. However, the biggest obstacle to a Charr unification is the Charr themselves. After the death of the original Khan-Ur, no single Charr was accepted as a worthy successor. There must have been so many sqaubbles, duels, internal power struggles, that no one could position himself as the leader all Charr.The closest we got to a Charr unification was 1090 AE, when Flame dominated the other Legions. Yet, even the Flame Imperator had enough sense to not use that title until he claimed all of Ascalon. We all know how that went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rognik.2579 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:My main complaint is that they used an Asura to reveal it. This REALLY should have been a Charr modeling it first.Actually, there might be some meaning to this. If you think about it from a certain angle (and this is going to be taking everything in the trailer far too seriously, so bear with me), there's a lot to unpack from the entire A Bug in the System teaser. I think it is safe to say that the dagger is going to be based off the Claw of Khan-Ur, in the same way that we had The Shining Blade as a legendary for S3E6. It's not the real blade by any means, but it takes the elements of a well-known relic (to those who dig deeper than a surface level of the lore) and turns it into a powerful weapon.Why the Claw? We do see a charr body (probably a corpse) briefly in the Inquest lab, which means it has to be close enough to the Ascalon border for more than a handful of random charr to get captured, as the only non-humans (of the major races) we saw in Elona during Path of Fire were the Commander (maybe), Rytlock and Canach (who were with the Commander most of the time), Durmand Priory members and Gorea Halfcut. I doubt there were enough charr Priory members for the Inquest to take them and not be noticed, so they have to have another way of obtaining charr bodies.Now on to the asura wielding the dagger. First, from a marketing perspective, it shows us the scale better than if it were a charr and a massive dagger in her/his hand. Second, since we know the Inquest will probably be heavily involved in the chapter, maybe the asura are mucking about with something charr related. I'll be able to approach this better after the chapter actually launches, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Ansari.1604 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 @Rognik.2579 said:@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:My main complaint is that they used an Asura to reveal it. This REALLY should have been a Charr modeling it first.Why the Claw? We do see a charr body (probably a corpse) briefly in the Inquest lab, which means it has to be close enough to the Ascalon border for more than a handful of random charr to get captured, as the only non-humans (of the major races) we saw in Elona during Path of Fire were the Commander (maybe), Rytlock and Canach (who were with the Commander most of the time), Durmand Priory members and Gorea Halfcut. I doubt there were enough charr Priory members for the Inquest to take them and not be noticed, so they have to have another way of obtaining charr bodies.Don't get me wrong, I'd be thrilled to see a tie-back to the charr storylines. I just don't think we can make that leap from finding a dead charr in the lab. After all, the entire reason we're going to this base is that they can freely open portals to anywhere and everywhere on the Tyrian continent. So far as we know, there's nothing stopping a smash-and-grab where they drag corpses or prisoners back through said portal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rognik.2579 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:@Rognik.2579 said:@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:My main complaint is that they used an Asura to reveal it. This REALLY should have been a Charr modeling it first.Why the Claw? We do see a charr body (probably a corpse) briefly in the Inquest lab, which means it has to be close enough to the Ascalon border for more than a handful of random charr to get captured, as the only non-humans (of the major races) we saw in Elona during Path of Fire were the Commander (maybe), Rytlock and Canach (who were with the Commander most of the time), Durmand Priory members and Gorea Halfcut. I doubt there were enough charr Priory members for the Inquest to take them and not be noticed, so they have to have another way of obtaining charr bodies.Don't get me wrong, I'd be thrilled to see a tie-back to the charr storylines. I just don't think we can make that leap from finding a dead charr in the lab. After all, the entire reason we're going to this base is that they can freely open portals to anywhere and everywhere on the Tyrian continent. So far as we know, there's nothing stopping a smash-and-grab where they drag corpses or prisoners back through said portal. Well, from what I understand of the Current Events story revolved around the portals is that, while they can materialize anywhere on Tyria without needing a gate on the other side, they are also one-way trips. Pretty sure they can't just send people and things back through the portals, no matter how much they might want to. Now, I admit my theory that this all ties back to the charr is a bit far-fetched, but there are wilder theories that have been flung about this forum in the past, and a couple of them turned out to be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Ansari.1604 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 @Rognik.2579 said:@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:@Rognik.2579 said:@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:My main complaint is that they used an Asura to reveal it. This REALLY should have been a Charr modeling it first.Why the Claw? We do see a charr body (probably a corpse) briefly in the Inquest lab, which means it has to be close enough to the Ascalon border for more than a handful of random charr to get captured, as the only non-humans (of the major races) we saw in Elona during Path of Fire were the Commander (maybe), Rytlock and Canach (who were with the Commander most of the time), Durmand Priory members and Gorea Halfcut. I doubt there were enough charr Priory members for the Inquest to take them and not be noticed, so they have to have another way of obtaining charr bodies.Don't get me wrong, I'd be thrilled to see a tie-back to the charr storylines. I just don't think we can make that leap from finding a dead charr in the lab. After all, the entire reason we're going to this base is that they can freely open portals to anywhere and everywhere on the Tyrian continent. So far as we know, there's nothing stopping a smash-and-grab where they drag corpses or prisoners back through said portal. Well, from what I understand of the Current Events story revolved around the portals is that, while they can materialize anywhere on Tyria without needing a gate on the other side, they are also one-way trips. Pretty sure they can't just send people and things back through the portals, no matter how much they might want to. Now, I admit my theory that this all ties back to the charr is a bit far-fetched, but there are wilder theories that have been flung about this forum in the past, and a couple of them turned out to be right.We know that they're two-way. Braham and Rox came through one of the first that opened in Hoelbrak, back last episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 as I wrote in the other thread, according to GoA the claw is HUGE, BULKY and HEAVY.So, not a dagger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Finally took the time to grab my copy of Ghosts of Ascalon. Here's the description for the Claw of the Khan-Ur (page 357):Page 357: Two blades pointing forward, two pointed back, a handgrip in the middle. An ungue. It was set with four gems- red, black, gray, and golden- for the four children of the imperator, and the four founders of the modern legions.Page 358: It looked exactly as he'd described it to the others, right down to the gold plating and the colors of the four jewels embedded in its handle. The blades were clean and sharp enough that he could see his reflection in them, something he'd not done in a long time. [...] He handled the blade gingerly, as its construction seemed to threaten to poke him at every moment.Page 359: The Claw would be too bulky and sharp to carry up on his back, so he tied it to the rope and gave the line a tug.Page 464: Riona came at him, whipping the ungue around as she charged. Dougal realized that some of the bloody scratches were not from Ember but from the Claw itself. Riona was an amateur with the blade, and could injure herself just as easily as she could wound him.It's too large and bulky to carry on one's back while climbing with a rope, large enough to be parried by a sword, it has two blades pointing forward and two pointing back. I'm also not sure I see gold on the legendary, or the blades to be reflective enough to see oneself in it.It would be, at best, a greatsword.If the dagger is the Claw, they made a massive retcon.I'm also rather curious how that dagger is a weapon at all. The blades on the opponent's end are covered with decoration, and on the user's end it's blunted by all appearances.That said, it probably will be Claw of the Khan-ur, given players' long desire for legendaries to have lore and turn lore legendary artifacts into legendary weapons, and the four gems matching well enough (plus the ungues of GW1 were all of that appearance).EDIT: Just occurred to me for the first time since I first read the novel that the "two forward, two back" could be referring to the direction of the point, not the sharp edges of the blade and assumes one would try to hold the thing like a normal sword or dagger rather than like brass knuckles and the like as they should be... So I guess that part's not a contradiction. The description of that always made me think the Claw of the Khan-Ur was basically a giant, fancified, deer horn knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 New Legendary Dagger—Claw of the Khan-UrA new legendary weapon is now available. Speak to Grandmaster Craftsman Hobbs in Lion's Arch to learn how to craft the new dagger precursor Claw of Resolution and forge the new legendary dagger Claw of the Khan-Ur.So turns out the dagger is indeed a retcon of the lore for the Claw of the Khan-Ur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch.1794 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:New Legendary Dagger—Claw of the Khan-UrA new legendary weapon is now available. Speak to Grandmaster Craftsman Hobbs in Lion's Arch to learn how to craft the new dagger precursor Claw of Resolution and forge the new legendary dagger Claw of the Khan-Ur.So turns out the dagger is indeed a retcon of the lore for the Claw of the Khan-Ur.Or just a game mechanics thing - weapons scale to the size of the character. What’s described in the book is a Charr-sized weapon, but that simply wouldn’t work in game as one-size-fits all weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 @Stitch.1794 said:@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:New Legendary Dagger—Claw of the Khan-UrA new legendary weapon is now available. Speak to Grandmaster Craftsman Hobbs in Lion's Arch to learn how to craft the new dagger precursor Claw of Resolution and forge the new legendary dagger Claw of the Khan-Ur.So turns out the dagger is indeed a retcon of the lore for the Claw of the Khan-Ur.Or just a game mechanics thing - weapons scale to the size of the character. What’s described in the book is a Charr-sized weapon, but that simply wouldn’t work in game as one-size-fits all weapon.Even a charr's or norn's dagger is not "too bulky to have on one's back while climbing" big.And the size isn't the only issue (see my above post). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 It's a bit silly in my opinion to compare a description in a book with an actual representation of the actual thing. With a book you always ALWAYS have a different imagination of the thing than what it actually looks like. Who's not to say that the description in the book is not entirely accurate or even embellished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durzlla.6295 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:New Legendary Dagger—Claw of the Khan-UrA new legendary weapon is now available. Speak to Grandmaster Craftsman Hobbs in Lion's Arch to learn how to craft the new dagger precursor Claw of Resolution and forge the new legendary dagger Claw of the Khan-Ur.So turns out the dagger is indeed a retcon of the lore for the Claw of the Khan-Ur.I thought all the legendaries are supposed to be replicas crafted by the player, not the actual item. That's why in game we're reading books about the weapons and doing all of this stuff to try and recreate it, and actually fuck up at least twice in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 @FrizzFreston.5290 said:It's a bit silly in my opinion to compare a description in a book with an actual representation of the actual thing. With a book you always ALWAYS have a different imagination of the thing than what it actually looks like. Who's not to say that the description in the book is not entirely accurate or even embellished?Sometimes, although the book uses clear descriptions to avoid leaving much to the imagination. To be not accurate, it would have to use different terms or just be a cop out However, I'd say the point is moot either way since;> @Durzlla.6295 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:New Legendary Dagger—Claw of the Khan-UrA new legendary weapon is now available. Speak to Grandmaster Craftsman Hobbs in Lion's Arch to learn how to craft the new dagger precursor Claw of Resolution and forge the new legendary dagger Claw of the Khan-Ur.So turns out the dagger is indeed a retcon of the lore for the Claw of the Khan-Ur.I thought all the legendaries are supposed to be replicas crafted by the player, not the actual item. That's why in game we're reading books about the weapons and doing all of this stuff to try and recreate it, and actually kitten up at least twice in the process. I have always took the Legendaries to be replicas for this very reason. After all, we can hardly be making something that has existed prior to us even born in the case of The Shining Blade which came from the Seer. Assuming these are replicas, they can be scaled down in size thus rendering the size description in the book irrelevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Having said all of the above, apparently it is on display in Smodur's office. Not sure if a new addition or not, but the scale of that may indicate a retcon to the size or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durzlla.6295 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 @Randulf.7614 said:Having said all of the above, apparently it is on display in Smodur's office. Not sure if a new addition or not, but the scale of that may indicate a retcon to the size or notJust looked up the image of it, and by balthazars balls that thing is gigantic, it’s like half the size of the Charr in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 @Durzlla.6295 said:@Randulf.7614 said:Having said all of the above, apparently it is on display in Smodur's office. Not sure if a new addition or not, but the scale of that may indicate a retcon to the size or notJust looked up the image of it, and by balthazars balls that thing is gigantic, it’s like half the size of the Charr in the background.Yeah but is that perspective playing tricks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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