Ascended vs. Exotic not 5% — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Ascended vs. Exotic not 5%

circuitnerd.5863circuitnerd.5863 Member ✭✭✭
edited February 28, 2018 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

I've noticed ever since ascended came out people have said it's 5% stronger than exotic. And the wiki states this as well. However if you add up all the stats of exotic gear vs. ascended, ascended is almost exactly 10% higher. Did I do my math wrong or has no one actually added up the stats before?

*Note I've also done tests in DPS between exotic vs. ascended and it was 10% difference as well.

Exotic

Helm: 60, 43, 43
Shoulders: 45, 32, 32
Chest: 134, 96, 96
Gloves: 45, 32, 32
Pants: 90, 64, 64
Boots: 45, 32, 32
Back: 50, 35, 35
Trinkets: 162, 116, 116
Amulet: 140, 99, 99
Rings: 220, 156, 156
Greatsword: 239, 171, 171

Grand Total: 2982

Ascended

Helm: 63, 45, 45
Shoulders: 47, 34, 34
Chest: 141, 101, 101
Gloves: 47, 34, 34
Pants: 94, 67, 67
Boots: 47, 34, 34
Back: 63, 40, 40
Trinkets: 220, 148, 148
Amulet: 157, 108, 108
Rings: 252, 170, 170
Greatsword: 251, 179, 179

Grand Total: 3302

Do a barrel roll

Comments

  • circuitnerd.5863circuitnerd.5863 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2018

    @TarkaTarquol.4856 said:
    The damage is 5% stronger. Not the stat numbers. In Berserker's case, take into account that Precision doesn't really add more damage (especially if you hit the 100% crit cap), Ferocity is only gonna be a couple more percent damage on crits, and attacks all have different Power scalings.

    For more direct comparison, take the helmet slot: 60 Exotic/63 Ascended = .9523... essentially .95 or 95%. Exotic is 95% the power of Ascended. Flip it around, 63/60 = 1.05, Ascended is 105% the power of Exotic.

    How does this explain my 10% difference in damage though? I've been repeatably testing this for hours now. Also, the wiki just says 5% stronger. Even if this is just true for damage, it doesn't apply to the statement on the wiki. Where 10% is the total number of everything being more.

    Do a barrel roll

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The OPs numbers are wrong, according to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute_combinations the total stats for three attribute exotic equipment is 3087 (bottom of the page), so it's 3087/3303=.934 or 93.4‰ of ascended maybe they forgot to add gemstones to the accessories?

  • @Pifil.5193 said:
    The OPs numbers are wrong, according to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute_combinations the total stats for three attribute exotic equipment is 3087 (bottom of the page), so it's 3087/3303=.934 or 93.4‰ of ascended maybe they forgot to add gemstones to the accessories?

    I wrote down all these numbers from looking at my character's items. The armor was berserker's, the weapon is berserker's, the trinkets are soldier's. The exotic trinkets have crest of the soldier in them.

    Do a barrel roll

  • TarkaTarquol.4856TarkaTarquol.4856 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2018

    Mind elaborating on your testing? There are many elements you may not have considered that would break your numbers.

    Also, your numbers are just a bit off, I realize. Mostly in your "Trinket" section. As a note: Trinkets are what Rings, Amulet, and Accessories are collectively called. What you say are "Trinket" are actually Accessories. Anyways, Exotic Trinkets all have an Upgrade slot for a gemstone or jewel. This was not accurately taken into account by you, I believe. In the Accessory slot, you have a total of 162 for the exotics and 220 for Ascended. That's 81 for Exotic and 110 for Ascended. It's actually 100 for Exotic. Ruby Orichalcum Earrings have 75 base Power (assuming Berserker stats) but they also include a Jewel worth another 25 Power, bringing the total for that one Accessory to 100 Power, or Major stat. Comparatively, that's 200 total for Exo and 220 for Ascended, which, granted, is a 10% difference, but this is just between the accessory slot.

    Taking everything into account, it's +1288 Major, +900 +900 Minors for Triple stat attributes, Exotic (arbitrary total of 3088). Ascended is +1382 Major, +960 +960 Minor (3302). Between the major stats, this is roughly a 7% increase, and minors have a 6.67% increase.

    Now, these are percentages. The actual numbers, are +94 power, and +60 precision/Ferocity. So that's ~3% more crit chance, 4% more Crit Damage, and only 94 extra power for scaling. I'll wait to see what your reply is to how you tested your theory.

    @circuitnerd.5863 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:
    The OPs numbers are wrong, according to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute_combinations the total stats for three attribute exotic equipment is 3087 (bottom of the page), so it's 3087/3303=.934 or 93.4‰ of ascended maybe they forgot to add gemstones to the accessories?

    I wrote down all these numbers from looking at my character's items. The armor was berserker's, the weapon is berserker's, the trinkets are soldier's. The exotic trinkets have crest of the soldier in them.

    Aaand that would explain the break in numbers. Crests are Rare quality upgrades. You weren't using full Exotic or pure stat sets, for that matter. Were your Ascended quality tests done with the exact same distribution of attributes?

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've checked this out in another thread on these forums a few weeks ago

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/368482#Comment_368482

    I have only replaced the 6 armor pieces though because players can get ascended trinkets with berserker stats in the first few days after hitting level 80 and because the thread was about crafting. There is very little difference between ascended armor and exotic armor when it comes to the total stats of your character, certainly not 5%. Yes, the difference of single stats on armor pieces is 5%, but 5% more power from armor results only in 0,7% more total power.

    @Faaris.8013 said:
    Fully ascended: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQFAWn8MBVmiNOBGOB8PhFaCbLPNc2TzVwN4IULAMhiAA-jhRBAB4pD4hLAAlq/YmSwr2fU+BwDAgUARMGA-e

    Exotic armor: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQFAWn8MBVmiNOBGOB8PhFaCTLAMhiAb5phzeauCuBHhA-jhRBwAmVCeT9H86AA8AAecBAuu/o8jUARMGA-e

    The differences are so small, if you are not applying to join a hardcore raid guild, nobody should care.

    • 0,7% more power
    • 2,6% more armor
    • 0,75% more precision => 1,2% more crit chance
    • 1,4% more ferocity => 1,2% more critical damage
  • @TarkaTarquol.4856 said:
    Mind elaborating on your testing? There are many elements you may not have considered that would break your numbers.

    Also, your numbers are just a bit off, I realize. Mostly in your "Trinket" section. As a note: Trinkets are what Rings, Amulet, and Accessories are collectively called. What you say are "Trinket" are actually Accessories. Anyways, Exotic Trinkets all have an Upgrade slot for a gemstone or jewel. This was not accurately taken into account by you, I believe. In the Accessory slot, you have a total of 162 for the exotics and 220 for Ascended. That's 81 for Exotic and 110 for Ascended. It's actually 100 for Exotic. Ruby Orichalcum Earrings have 75 base Power (assuming Berserker stats) but they also include a Jewel worth another 25 Power, bringing the total for that one Accessory to 100 Power, or Major stat. Comparatively, that's 200 total for Exo and 220 for Ascended, which, granted, is a 10% difference, but this is just between the accessory slot.

    Taking everything into account, it's +1288 Major, +900 +900 Minors for Triple stat attributes, Exotic (arbitrary total of 3088). Ascended is +1382 Major, +960 +960 Minor (3302). Between the major stats, this is roughly a 7% increase, and minors have a 6.67% increase.

    Now, these are percentages. The actual numbers, are +94 power, and +60 precision/Ferocity. So that's ~3% more crit chance, 4% more Crit Damage, and only 94 extra power for scaling. I'll wait to see what your reply is to how you tested your theory.

    @circuitnerd.5863 said:

    @Pifil.5193 said:
    The OPs numbers are wrong, according to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute_combinations the total stats for three attribute exotic equipment is 3087 (bottom of the page), so it's 3087/3303=.934 or 93.4‰ of ascended maybe they forgot to add gemstones to the accessories?

    I wrote down all these numbers from looking at my character's items. The armor was berserker's, the weapon is berserker's, the trinkets are soldier's. The exotic trinkets have crest of the soldier in them.

    Aaand that would explain the break in numbers. Crests are Rare quality upgrades. You weren't using full Exotic or pure stat sets, for that matter. Were your Ascended quality tests done with the exact same distribution of attributes?

    I did some Math on it and the Stats offer ~5% increase. The only thing thats really inflated is the Backpiece and i dont know if i did something wrong or not.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QfYqE7ynyoT0G-liuePSKNQ0o8tehflnYSL9TdOdHyk/edit?usp=sharing

  • Ameepa.6793Ameepa.6793 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2018

    At least your exotic jewels are wrong,
    Trinkets have base stats of 75, 53, 53 + gemstone 25, 15, 15 = 100, 68, 68 per trinket = 200, 136, 136 ( you had only 162, 116, 116 on these for some reason)
    Rings base 90, 64, 64 + gemstone 25, 15, 15 = 115, 79, 79 per ring = 230, 158, 158
    Amulet 120, 85, 85 + gemsone 25, 15, 15 = 145, 100, 100

    So your calculations are missing at least 99 points from exotics which would make it 3081 vs 3302

    Did not check other items.

    Edit: back item also, base 30, 21, 21 + gemstone 25, 15, 15 = 55, 36, 36, so that's 7 missing points more

  • @circuitnerd.5863 said:
    I wrote down all these numbers from looking at my character's items. The armor was berserker's, the weapon is berserker's, the trinkets are soldier's. The exotic trinkets have crest of the soldier in them.

    Crest of the Soldier has lesser stats (48) than adding in an exquisite jewel (55).

    A more relevant comparison would be using zerker's for everything (which would make the exotic rings, accessories, amulet, and backpack easier to compare to the ascended equivalents).

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Is this taking into account runes, sigils, traits and boons and consumables (food, sharpening stones, etc)?

    Keep in mind that with base gear, you might see a 7% difference in stats (for example). However, add 25 stacks of might, and suddenly the damage stat difference in particular is much less than that (as little as 1%). Add Ferocity and you have a similar effect for the precision stat. The same goes for defensive stats too, because you have a lot of other factors that can increase your toughness, healing and vitality, etc outside of the base stats on gear (such as runes, sigils, passive traits, banners, support skills, boons, etc).

    To put it bluntly, the difference between exotic and ascended gear becomes much more negligible when you consider other factors into the equation, to the point of being unnoticeable, especially in group content. The main argument for having ascended gear is for agony resistance for fractals, or for other infusions that might be useful in WvW, etc.

  • Mea.5491Mea.5491 Member ✭✭✭✭

    5% or 10%, why does it matter? Ascended items are extremely easy to get these days, trinkets and weapons are basically free from season3 and specialization collections. It was more of an issue when Ascended stuff were released, it took me forever to get my first set. I don't even do raids and fractals so I don't actually need Ascended stuff anyway, I only got them for the sake of having Ascended gear but it's not actually needed for 90% of the PvE content.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It varies per item. At the start of the last season I was wondering if the ascended trinkets (with and without upgrades) were worth it. I found out an ascended trinket without upgrades was better than the equivalent trinket with them. With both upgraded (assuming wvw 5 pts, the -1 pts from general pve infusions did not matter much here for the comparisons) it ranged from 5% for rings to 23% for backpacks. I did not compute breathers but you get the point.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • MarshallLaw.9260MarshallLaw.9260 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2018

    Interesting topic, although it's bold to challenge raw stats which people have looked at for several years.
    Using build editor and an untraited warrior (heavy armor) without utilities equipped for testing methods.
    Below is the extract of the numbers generated. Tested stats - BESERKER

    The top table is a comparison of full exotic armor, weps and trinkets with max jewels embeded against a full ascended set of the same armor, weps and trinkets with no infusions.

    Since it is not possible to acquire Beserker infusions, it becomes tricky to compare so I have made a further 2 tables below with full Mighty and Precise infusions and highlighted the changes.
    If we were able to acquire +Ferocity infusions, this might be easier to compare, although getting the power/prec/ferocity ratio the same with infusions as it appears on jewels might not be so easy.

    In general we can see that 4-5% is about the average improvement in raw stats, how this reflects on actual numbers produced in combat is another discussion.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This has been discussed numerous times in the past. Here’s one such time:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/31wbip/ascended_vs_exotic_gear_comparison_spreedsheet/

  • Gudy.3607Gudy.3607 Member ✭✭✭

    The 10% total damage increase observed by the OP is in line with the 5% total stat increase and the 5% increase in weapon strength, since 1.05 * 1.05 ~= 1.10.

  • Oldirtbeard.9834Oldirtbeard.9834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My suggestion is lvl up Weaponsmith/Huntsman/ Artificer what ever makes the weapons you need because the biggest DPS increase will come from Ascended Weapons, other than that farm out your ascended trinkets from either the Laurel Vendor, the Guild Vendor from doing missions with a Guild, or farming the Season 3 maps.

    The armor pieces are only needed if you're doing t3 or t4 fractals because you'll need the infusion slots for agony resistance.