Weaver Dagger?!?

Has anyone figured out how to play this yet I keep toying around with it but it seems like its out done in sword in just about every way not to mention that many of the dual skills like sword are very hard to land unless you are standing right ontop of some one.

I mean it has some neat tricks so far but i cant find a good follow up to after knock downs or knock backs.Is it worth even using at all?

What game mode?

@Tinnel.4369 said:What game mode?

I'll say likely mostly in pve for the time being my reaction time is a bit too slow with weaver particularly for pvp at the moment

Dagger needs unravel.

I don't PvE, but I've been playing dagger/dagger a lot in WvW the last couple weeks. What I've found is that while sword/dagger is much more about keeping up constant pressure and working your ass off to get through your attunes, dagger/dagger (at least the way I'm using it) works nice if you focus it around setting up fire/x and fire/fire bursts with Arcane Blast. The other attunes have some decent damage/sustain in them, but are indeed clunky when trying to "weave" through them like sword/dagger. I use them more as buying time/kiting until I can set up my bursts again. Running Fire, Arcane, Weaver.

@"Tinnel.4369" said:I don't PvE, but I've been playing dagger/dagger a lot in WvW the last couple weeks. What I've found is that while sword/dagger is much more about keeping up constant pressure and working your kitten off to get through your attunes, dagger/dagger (at least the way I'm using it) works nice if you focus it around setting up fire/x and fire/fire bursts with Arcane Blast. The other attunes have some decent damage/sustain in them, but are indeed clunky when trying to "weave" through them like sword/dagger. I use them more as buying time/kiting until I can set up my bursts again. Running Fire, Arcane, Weaver.

I found my self double attuning in air and fire quite a few times with better damage and rarely trying to go for duel attacks after they flop or fail to do anything other buy me some evade frames but ill try the fire / arcane / weaver though to see if that helps make a difference Thanks

In PvE, the best part about the dagger is it's AA... That's why d/wh FA tempest worked for so long, it had a strong aa to spam while waiting for your wh/overload cool downs. (since you only really used 6-8 abilities--including your lightning hammer/icebow skills)

Weavers have access to too many high damage skills with low cooldowns to really be looking to camp AA.

If the duel skills can do real dmg as well as the 1 skill d/d weaver may have a use in wvw roaming. Its not that good as is because only air 1 dose dmg and burning speed a doable fire atument something hard for weaver to pull off. This is why you see core ele and tempest in roaming groups ruining d/d.

It will still be lacking for big groups in wvw there just not enofe self support on weaver even core ele or tempest to stay alive and do dmg.

@"Jski.6180" said:If the duel skills can do real dmg as well as the 1 skill d/d weaver may have a use in wvw roaming. Its not that good as is because only air 1 dose dmg and burning speed a doable fire atument something hard for weaver to pull off. This is why you see core ele and tempest in roaming groups ruining d/d.

It will still be lacking for big groups in wvw there just not enofe self support on weaver even core ele or tempest to stay alive and do dmg.

That there's only two high damage skills is rather inaccurate. Drake's Breath and Fire Grab are both outstanding damage, admittedly both hard to hit, but not to be overlooked. With fire traits Drake's Breath is on a 4 second CD and is a great cleave on a downed non moving target. Off hand earth is still nice damage as well.

While eliminating none of the "klunkiness" the incoming patch will help some of the low damage skills come up to par paired with the across the board nerfing of other high damage classes/builds also helping.

Certainly not arguing it's effectiveness against other builds, it's sort of a play style of its own at the moment, but I do feel it's underestimated.

Dagger weaver is basically almost the same the as old d/d ele +:-extra water filed (hard to blast it without arcane dodge trait)-more evasion and mobility-weaver utilities-with more damage on air if you do just autos in air/earth with primordial stance and grinding stones. To be honest primordial make everything damaging better on anything doing damage in melee range ele.-one more basically cc on d/d setup if you don't count now a bit worse in availability static aura. If you count you have 2 more

If you didn't know old d/d ele play style is just like this - constant atumment rotation with might stacking and filling gaps with damage.You will feel lack of easy accessible core 3 skill's - but i don't agree that unravel is worth it...unravel is just horrible.

I don't see reason not to play this currently in pve doing random stuff - but in pvp and wvw - i don't feel it's a good idea.Mind that weaver force's completely different skill rotations and requires practice before going anywhere.

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:Mind that weaver force's completely different skill rotations and requires practice before going anywhere.

Thanks for the tips

Yes i dont plan to pvp with this character all that much to be honest but I do enjoy it in pve. Where reaction times are a little more forgiving due to how enemies work and messing up a rotation wont mean your death Xd.I feel like sword was not to bad to learn but dagger was just like WTF is this!?!?! xD

dagger/x works pretty well in PvE with fresh air to make use of air's pretty strong AA.

I have used:Air 222, Water 121, weaver 122 (for when you need lots of cleanse) or...Air 222, Arcana 221, weaver 121 for more damage...

You mostly end up swaping to a new element, using a 2 skill, swap air (on crit), then use dual/4/5, then swap air again, then swapping to the next element as needed.

With D/D you have a couple of pretty good bursts:Fire/air dual --> air swap --> ring of fire + fire grab -->air swap does some pretty good dpsearth/air dual skill + earth 2-->air swap-->earthquake-->churning earth + air swap (for that extra 20% damage buff) does pretty good damage.

After a while though, this gets a little boring b/c you only ever use air/x combos and do a LOT of air auto-attacking. Still, its better than having absolutely no range on sword, imo, for fun-factor.

@BlackBeard.2873 said:dagger/x works pretty well in PvE with fresh air to make use of air's pretty strong AA.

I have used:Air 222, Water 121, weaver 122 (for when you need lots of cleanse) or...Air 222, Arcana 221, weaver 121 for more damage...

You mostly end up swaping to a new element, using a 2 skill, swap air (on crit), then use dual/4/5, then swap air again, then swapping to the next element as needed.

With D/D you have a couple of pretty good bursts:Fire/air dual --> air swap --> ring of fire + fire grab -->air swap does some pretty good dpsearth/air dual skill + earth 2-->air swap-->earthquake-->churning earth + air swap (for that extra 20% damage buff) does pretty good damage.

After a while though, this gets a little boring b/c you only ever use air/x combos and do a LOT of air auto-attacking. Still, its better than having absolutely no range on sword, imo, for fun-factor.

You know after your FA suggestion tired it with d/f setup and I must say it opens quite finger broken combos for example:We had a bit discussion that steam surge water field can't be used reliably without staying in water or fire for moment.

• Usually you have to ( if not in fire/water already) swap water->internal cooldown-swap fire->internal cooldown->steam surge->swap somewhere to get a blast.
• D/F FA can blast it 2 times and used a bit faster if:let's say you're in earth->swap fire->internal cooldown->swap water->steam surge ( CRIT HIT SOMETHING WITH IT) ->swap air->comet->katabatic wind

edit: managed to blast it 3 times with arcane wave ^^

@BlackBeard.2873 said:dagger/x works pretty well in PvE with fresh air to make use of air's pretty strong AA.

I have used:Air 222, Water 121, weaver 122 (for when you need lots of cleanse) or...Air 222, Arcana 221, weaver 121 for more damage...

You mostly end up swaping to a new element, using a 2 skill, swap air (on crit), then use dual/4/5, then swap air again, then swapping to the next element as needed.

With D/D you have a couple of pretty good bursts:Fire/air dual --> air swap --> ring of fire + fire grab -->air swap does some pretty good dpsearth/air dual skill + earth 2-->air swap-->earthquake-->churning earth + air swap (for that extra 20% damage buff) does pretty good damage.

After a while though, this gets a little boring b/c you only ever use air/x combos and do a LOT of air auto-attacking. Still, its better than having absolutely no range on sword, imo, for fun-factor.

Very interesting indeed

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:

@BlackBeard.2873 said:dagger/x works pretty well in PvE with fresh air to make use of air's pretty strong AA.

I have used:Air 222, Water 121, weaver 122 (for when you need lots of cleanse) or...Air 222, Arcana 221, weaver 121 for more damage...

You mostly end up swaping to a new element, using a 2 skill, swap air (on crit), then use dual/4/5, then swap air again, then swapping to the next element as needed.

With D/D you have a couple of pretty good bursts:Fire/air dual --> air swap --> ring of fire + fire grab -->air swap does some pretty good dpsearth/air dual skill + earth 2-->air swap-->earthquake-->churning earth + air swap (for that extra 20% damage buff) does pretty good damage.

After a while though, this gets a little boring b/c you only ever use air/x combos and do a LOT of air auto-attacking. Still, its better than having absolutely no range on sword, imo, for fun-factor.

• Usually you have to ( if not in fire/water already) swap water->internal cooldown-swap fire->internal cooldown->steam surge->swap somewhere to get a blast.
• D/F FA can blast it 2 times and used a bit faster if:let's say you're in earth->swap fire->internal cooldown->swap water->steam surge ( CRIT HIT SOMETHING WITH IT) ->swap air->comet->katabatic wind

I was thinking something like this might work using FA to bypass in some ways being locked out of offhand skills and using focus’ higher defensive skills to make up for the loss of D/D #3 skills. I’ll have to give it a shot with my friend if he ever logs in again, dunno if it would be better than Sw/D though but certainly worth looking at for those large number of blasts.

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:

@BlackBeard.2873 said:dagger/x works pretty well in PvE with fresh air to make use of air's pretty strong AA.

I have used:Air 222, Water 121, weaver 122 (for when you need lots of cleanse) or...Air 222, Arcana 221, weaver 121 for more damage...

You mostly end up swaping to a new element, using a 2 skill, swap air (on crit), then use dual/4/5, then swap air again, then swapping to the next element as needed.

With D/D you have a couple of pretty good bursts:Fire/air dual --> air swap --> ring of fire + fire grab -->air swap does some pretty good dpsearth/air dual skill + earth 2-->air swap-->earthquake-->churning earth + air swap (for that extra 20% damage buff) does pretty good damage.

After a while though, this gets a little boring b/c you only ever use air/x combos and do a LOT of air auto-attacking. Still, its better than having absolutely no range on sword, imo, for fun-factor.

• Usually you have to ( if not in fire/water already) swap water->internal cooldown-swap fire->internal cooldown->steam surge->swap somewhere to get a blast.
• D/F FA can blast it 2 times and used a bit faster if:let's say you're in earth->swap fire->internal cooldown->swap water->steam surge ( CRIT HIT SOMETHING WITH IT) ->swap air->comet->katabatic wind

I REALLY like off hand dagger, but I'll give this a try tonight. However, I don't know if Weaver main hand dagger damage is enough to carry it very far.

@Tinnel.4369 said:

I REALLY like off hand dagger, but I'll give this a try tonight. However, I don't know if Weaver main hand dagger damage is enough to carry it very far.

I agree off hand dagger is amazing :D

Weaver is slower to set up its big dmg then core ele all be it weaver should be able to do more burst dmg then core ele (i do not think high anty condi and high barrier is a good ideal on d/d weaver going the +20% crit dmg is the best chose if you cant do that then d/d weaver is not worth the time).

Right now the burst from scorge is still to much to even get into melee ranged for a class like d/d weaver or even core ele tempest can but it must be the support version. I am hoping that in the skill spit we see scorge out put nerfed some and d/d ele get enofe power to get in and make it worth it and still able to get out.

@Jski.6180 said:Weaver is slower to set up its big dmg then core ele all be it weaver should be able to do more burst dmg then core ele (i do not think high anty condi and high barrier is a good ideal on d/d weaver going the +20% crit dmg is the best chose if you cant do that then d/d weaver is not worth the time).

Right now the burst from scorge is still to much to even get into melee ranged for a class like d/d weaver or even core ele tempest can but it must be the support version. I am hoping that in the skill spit we see scorge out put nerfed some and d/d ele get enofe power to get in and make it worth it and still able to get out.

Full fire in my build will put them down, especially when most of them are dumb enough to stand in it assuming you'll just melt under the condi. Burning Fire will auto cleanse the first few conditions and you'll get at least a blind or two. However, if they barrier or you miss Burning Speed or Fire Grab you're forced to tele out and full reset. Again, it's a one trick build mostly. I also hope the splits help bring some normalization across the board.

Anyone fiddled with sc/d at all?

@Jski.6180 said:Weaver is slower to set up its big dmg then core ele all be it weaver should be able to do more burst dmg then core ele (i do not think high anty condi and high barrier is a good ideal on d/d weaver going the +20% crit dmg is the best chose if you cant do that then d/d weaver is not worth the time).

Right now the burst from scorge is still to much to even get into melee ranged for a class like d/d weaver or even core ele tempest can but it must be the support version. I am hoping that in the skill spit we see scorge out put nerfed some and d/d ele get enofe power to get in and make it worth it and still able to get out.

Odd I thought weavers would excel at dealing with scourge considering they have some of the most insane condi clear in the game right now combined with great evades etc. I mean if going against multiple scourges then yeah done for. I have not tried sword or dagger weaver enough in pvp to give a full proper theory vs scourge though. I just know when I blow them up with condi on my necro (not using scourge) that they can clear it the first few rounds before I actually get them down. If they are smart and just do some really hard burst during obsidian flesh its gg. Usually.

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Weaver is slower to set up its big dmg then core ele all be it weaver should be able to do more burst dmg then core ele (i do not think high anty condi and high barrier is a good ideal on d/d weaver going the +20% crit dmg is the best chose if you cant do that then d/d weaver is not worth the time).

Right now the burst from scorge is still to much to even get into melee ranged for a class like d/d weaver or even core ele tempest can but it must be the support version. I am hoping that in the skill spit we see scorge out put nerfed some and d/d ele get enofe power to get in and make it worth it and still able to get out.

Sc/D weaver? Like FA? In PVP? NO.

Reason is like this - FA is only the way to avoid frustrating internal cooldown and benefit permanent 3s cooldown. Core build works like this - after leaving atumment you need to wait 8s to return to it - with weaver it's always 3s. What FA weaver does is giving us unique way to access almost immediately if we critically hit something - off-hand skills that we NOW need.

For example - I am barely alive, under pressure and need focus earth 5 obsidian flesh now!. So i swap earth->crit somebody->swap air->obsidian flesh= don't give damn about internal cool down.

That's why if I run FA weaver in pvp - i would never ever consider to use offhand dagger simply because focus reliable on weaver only with FA and it skill's are strong:earth:Obsidian Flesh -no cast animation power damage invulnerability.Magnetic Wave - no cast animation 3 condi clense and projectile reflect (every deadeye will hate you for life....) ow and blast!air:Gale - one of the best if not the best ele CC -hard to dodge, unblockable ranged no-projectile knockdownSwirling Winds-projectile hate for your team and more frustration for pew pew builds.water:Freezing Gust-handy FA trigger and helps with gap closing.Comet- sometimes clunky ranged cc with blastfire:Flamewall - the longest fire filed ele haveFire Shield- a bit counter pressure in melee fight's - the weakest focus skill...if not used by tempest.

I know why people love dd concept and it should be fine in pve but in pvp without arcane fury fire grab and churning earth are much worse. One has obvious animation, other obvious animation and long charge so it's incredibly punishing to lose damage because of cirt RNG. Guys, both fire grab and churning earth can hit close or above 10k on marauder with 25 stack's of might...but if not cirt you will get 5k...it's a lot effort for landing these and 50% RNG can ruin everything...it's not worth it.

What is better with FA dagger mainhand weaver? Easy FA triggers because we cleave mostly, we don't need so much targeting like with scepter weaver to get crit when we want to get our offhand skills. SO IF YOU TRY IT IN PVP GO OFFHAND FOCUS.

When we use scepter we usually want to keep foes in the distance...we don't want to hug people with dagger offhand skill's...far to glassy for that. Although Ride the Lightning fit's +1 build playstyle really well. But is it worth it?

Sword main hand have more sustain than dagger main hand.Sword dual attack does more damage than dagger dual attack ( the only dagger dual that deal nice damage is air earth, the rest are meh or just cc)DD weaver= auto attack n press random skills. It does a bit more damage than core DD because of the Ferocity trait.Nothing new.