Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Kito is a traitor!/Scarab Plague Discussion [spoilers]


Michram.6853

Recommended Posts

Since the trailer came out I've been thinking about Ghosts of Ascalon novel and I think they are going to use a similar scenario in ep 2.

First of all the theme of a new legendary reminds me of GoA- the Claw of Khan-Ur... Dougal, Ember, Gullik, Riona, Killeen and Kranxx were on the mission to bring the Claw of Khan-Ur back from Adelbern's tomb.

There is a second thing about this trailer that reminds me of the novel- chaining Ember, she didn't like it at all, she was ready to smite Riona and Dougal, but then she realized that she must make a right decision. Also looks like we are gonna do the same thing to Braham to make our plan work.

Third thing is that there was a traitor in GoA- Riona, I wonder if somebody will betray us in ep 2.

I really don't trust Kito. Do you want to know my reasons?

1) After we died because Balthazar killed us Kito said that he was watching us as we were dying! As Aurene was being captured! And he was just observing! And this: "Balthazar killed you. I watched from the shadows as you fell. We knew Balthazar was having you watched, but he struck before we could send a warning." The post office was too busy or what? I think he didn't even bother to send us any warning if he's been watching us, most likely when we were climbing on that hill. Because he knew the location where Balthazar was going to strike us.

2) In Daybreak he was annoyingly appearing at the docks to check what we are doing.

3) He lied to the Spearmarshal that we BOTH killed Balthazar, it sounded like there wasn't Canach, Kas or Rytlock and not even Aurene- only the Commander and Kito. I don't know why the Commander didn't react to this lie, maybe we were too confused after we were shanked by Amala's weapon.

Just look how misleaded the Spearmarshal was: Oh—the famous commander. Agent Kito told us tales of how the two of you killed Balthazar.

AND look AT THIS: Is it true you and Agent Kito also killed two Elder Dragons?

I don't trust him and his plan he speaks of in the trailer is going to bring a doom upon us. He's not a good guy and it proves that Kito and his Order seek only the glory, not the alliance between Tyria and Elona.

Though SHADOWS Fall...

What do you think?

Edits: clarifying things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 61
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Similar topic recently showed up on reddit. Path of Fire's bonus stuff makes it seem like the Order of Shadows is definitely going to become a rival faction. Kito has done more than one questionable thing, but I wouldn't say his refusal to help us fight a god is one of them (let's be honest, what's the likelihood that Kito could last a few seconds against Balthazar?).

That said, I think Kito will end up being an ally by the end - I'm thinking something similar to what happened with the Ministry of Purity and Zei Ri during Winds of Change in GW1.

1) After we died because Balthazar killed us Kito said that he was watching us as we were dying! As Aurene was being captured! And he was just observing! And this: "Balthazar killed you. I watched from the shadows as you fell. We knew Balthazar was having you watched, but he struck before we could send a warning." The post office was too busy or what? I think he didn't even bother to send us any warning if he's been watching us, most likely when we were climbing on that hill. Because he knew the location where Balthazar was going to strike us.

When you don't have access to instant communication, it actually is pretty hard to communicate with someone who's constantly wandering around and was, moments prior, in an underground area unreachable and lost by most - and only escapable via teleporter. And as mentioned, it makes sense Kito or any Shadows agents would be capable of lasting more than a few seconds in front of Balthazar, especially if the Dragonslayer is having trouble.

3) He lied to the Spearmarshal that we BOTH killed Balthazar, it sounded like there wasn't Canach, Kas or Rytlock and not even Aurene- only the Commander and Kito. I don't know why the Commander didn't react to this lie, maybe we were too confused after we were shanked by Amala's weapon.

To be fair, Kito did help in the war against Balthazar just as much as Canach, Kasmeer, and Rytlock did. We don't know Kito's exact words to Zaeim (or how he got said word to Zaeim, tbh), only what Zaeim says in response to that. Saying "the two of you killed Balthazar" does not imply that it was ONLY two or that it was specifically the final battle being referenced.

But the line about Zaeim asking if Kito helped kill the Elder Dragons is a bit more suspicious. But again, we do not know the circumstances of how Zaeim came to hear this. Telephone game can play good tricks on phrases.

So it calls suspicion, but it's nothing really solid, especially with ArenaNet's love of use for the Unreliable Narrator.

I don't trust him and his plan he speaks of in the trailer is going to bring a doom upon us. He's not a good guy and it proves that Kito and his Order seek only the glory, not the alliance between Tyria and Elona.

The plan is to get the Commander into the Inquest base... and does exactly that. I don't think that Kito's betrayal - if there will be one - will be in Episode 2. Hopefully they'll milk it a bit more. I'm expecting Episode 3 to unveil the Order of Shadows being hostile to the Commander in some form, and it will be revealed that Kito and some others (Kossan for example) are actually being mislead, thinking their actions are for a greater good than they are.

As for the glory part, all lore indicates that the Order of Shadows doesn't care about glory, but maintaining status quo. The Commander's presence upsets status quo. There will be hostilities between Shadows and Commander. The question is who, when, and how.

Though SHADOWS Fall...

You're joking on that bit, right? That's Fear Not This Night original lyrics there... And represents the darkness of Zhaitan's domain of Shadow (and the general Elder Dragon plight too but the song was primarily focused around fighting Zhaitan).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shit I did not know that. Thanks now I know to be weary if not be ready to kill him. Also is joko out of his cage? I wonder if he gave taimi location to joko forces to get other nation involved. Maybe he will use our name to get what he wants since the way his wording of his sentences sounds like we are almost one is a leader and the other subordinate or brother in arms. Also I think joko could have gotten the information about the dragons, maps, and current politics from him also or another person within the group.As a last note of speculation, I think he might try to go for a power play of some type and assimilate the order of whispers into the shadow to further their sphere of influence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Similar topic recently showed up on reddit. Path of Fire's bonus stuff makes it seem like the Order of Shadows is definitely going to become a rival faction. Kito has done more than one questionable thing, but I wouldn't say his refusal to help us fight a god is one of them (let's be honest, what's the likelihood that Kito could last a few seconds against Balthazar?).

That said, I think Kito will end up being an ally by the end - I'm thinking something similar to what happened with the Ministry of Purity and Zei Ri during Winds of Change in GW1.

1) After we died because Balthazar killed us Kito said that he was watching us as we were dying! As Aurene was being captured! And he was just observing! And this: "Balthazar killed you. I watched from the shadows as you fell. We knew Balthazar was having you watched, but he struck before we could send a warning." The post office was too busy or what? I think he didn't even bother to send us any warning if he's been watching us, most likely when we were climbing on that hill. Because he knew the location where Balthazar was going to strike us.

When you don't have access to instant communication, it actually is pretty hard to communicate with someone who's constantly wandering around and was, moments prior, in an underground area unreachable and lost by most - and only escapable via teleporter. And as mentioned, it makes sense Kito or any Shadows agents would be capable of lasting more than a few seconds in front of Balthazar, especially if the Dragonslayer is having trouble.

3) He lied to the Spearmarshal that we BOTH killed Balthazar, it sounded like there wasn't Canach, Kas or Rytlock and not even Aurene- only the Commander and Kito. I don't know why the Commander didn't react to this lie, maybe we were too confused after we were shanked by Amala's weapon.

To be fair, Kito did help in the war against Balthazar just as much as Canach, Kasmeer, and Rytlock did. We don't know Kito's exact words to Zaeim (or how he got said word to Zaeim, tbh), only what Zaeim says in response to that. Saying "the two of you killed Balthazar" does not imply that it was ONLY two or that it was specifically the final battle being referenced.

But the line about Zaeim asking if Kito helped kill the Elder Dragons is a bit more suspicious. But again, we do not know the circumstances of how Zaeim came to hear this. Telephone game can play good tricks on phrases.

So it calls suspicion, but it's nothing really solid, especially with ArenaNet's love of use for the Unreliable Narrator.

I don't trust him and his plan he speaks of in the trailer is going to bring a doom upon us. He's not a good guy and it proves that Kito and his Order seek only the glory, not the alliance between Tyria and Elona.

The plan is to get the Commander into the Inquest base... and does exactly that. I don't think that Kito's betrayal - if there will be one - will be in Episode 2. Hopefully they'll milk it a bit more. I'm expecting Episode 3 to unveil the Order of Shadows being hostile to the Commander in some form, and it will be revealed that Kito and some others (Kossan for example) are actually being mislead, thinking their actions are for a greater good than they are.

As for the glory part, all lore indicates that the Order of Shadows doesn't care about glory, but maintaining status quo. The Commander's presence upsets status quo. There
will
be hostilities between Shadows and Commander. The question is who, when, and how.

Though SHADOWS Fall...

You're joking on that bit, right? That's Fear Not This Night original lyrics there... And represents the darkness of Zhaitan's domain of Shadow (and the general Elder Dragon plight too but the song was primarily focused around fighting Zhaitan).

Yes, a small joko of mine ;)))

But don't you think it is kinda suspicious that he brings an idea that turns into the plan and then we can see that only 3 of us enter the Lab? A good strategist makes itself sure that everything is gonna work out just fine. Trailer calls him "The man with the plan"- what's his plan though I don't know, but I can't really trust him after that he misled Zaeim.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they just didn't want to up play a generic green golem for their teaser. And Braham's too hated to be front and center while Rox has always been a rather "in the back watching over everyone in the group" kind of character. I am rather doubtful of any significance.

But then again, ArenaNet makes super insignificant things be "the big hint" like that Balthazar's Shield wielded by Caudecus' lacky hinting at the origin of Lazarus being Balthazar...

@"Arden.7480" said:But don't you think it is kinda suspicious that he brings an idea that turns into the plan and then we can see that only 3 of us enter the Lab? A good strategist makes itself sure that everything is gonna work out just fine. Trailer calls him "The man with the plan"- what's his plan though I don't know, but I can't really trust him after that he misled Zaeim.

Keep in mind, though, where Kito's training lies. He's not a strategist. He's a spy. He's effectively the Elonian version of Tybalt, but without a constant go-to gag like Tybalt and apples.

And spies are meant to be unseen by the enemy. He still has to keep a low enough profile to function in Elonian society should plans go belly up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Arden.7480" said:I think the picture presenting A Bug in the System may hint something. I interpret it like the Commander is in Kito's shadow. Look how he's exposed in this pic...

https://imgur.com/a/Tbs9t

Really weird.

I think you are looking for things to interpret that do not require it at this point though. It is just a picture, nothing weird about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It may end up being nothing but there is short dialogue in the shadows headquarters in the desolation with a man standing in front of a door that implies we may at some point see what is behind it. Whatever it is they don't want us seeing it.

It would be interesting to have a story instance there in which we discover the order is at odds with us and we essentially take over their base only to find something more sinister behind that door.

It may just wind up being nothing though.

Certainly seems like they're hinting at the Order being up to something though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Arden.7480 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Similar topic recently showed up on reddit. Path of Fire's bonus stuff makes it seem like the Order of Shadows is definitely going to become a rival faction. Kito has done more than one questionable thing, but I wouldn't say his refusal to help us fight a god is one of them (let's be honest, what's the likelihood that Kito could last a few seconds against Balthazar?).

That said, I think Kito will end up being an ally by the end - I'm thinking something similar to what happened with the Ministry of Purity and Zei Ri during Winds of Change in GW1.

1) After we died because Balthazar killed us Kito said that he was watching us as we were dying! As Aurene was being captured! And he was just observing! And this: "Balthazar killed you. I watched from the shadows as you fell. We knew Balthazar was having you watched, but he struck before we could send a warning." The post office was too busy or what? I think he didn't even bother to send us any warning if he's been watching us, most likely when we were climbing on that hill. Because he knew the location where Balthazar was going to strike us.

When you don't have access to instant communication, it actually is pretty hard to communicate with someone who's constantly wandering around and was, moments prior, in an underground area unreachable and lost by most - and only escapable via teleporter. And as mentioned, it makes sense Kito or any Shadows agents would be capable of lasting more than a few seconds in front of Balthazar, especially if the Dragonslayer is having trouble.

3) He lied to the Spearmarshal that we BOTH killed Balthazar, it sounded like there wasn't Canach, Kas or Rytlock and not even Aurene- only the Commander and Kito. I don't know why the Commander didn't react to this lie, maybe we were too confused after we were shanked by Amala's weapon.

To be fair, Kito did help in the war against Balthazar just as much as Canach, Kasmeer, and Rytlock did. We don't know Kito's exact words to Zaeim (or how he got said word to Zaeim, tbh), only what Zaeim says in response to that. Saying "the two of you killed Balthazar" does not imply that it was ONLY two or that it was specifically the final battle being referenced.

But the line about Zaeim asking if Kito helped kill the Elder Dragons is a bit more suspicious. But again, we do not know the circumstances of how Zaeim came to hear this. Telephone game can play good tricks on phrases.

So it calls suspicion, but it's nothing really solid, especially with ArenaNet's love of use for the Unreliable Narrator.

I don't trust him and his plan he speaks of in the trailer is going to bring a doom upon us. He's not a good guy and it proves that Kito and his Order seek only the glory, not the alliance between Tyria and Elona.

The plan is to get the Commander into the Inquest base... and does exactly that. I don't think that Kito's betrayal - if there will be one - will be in Episode 2. Hopefully they'll milk it a bit more. I'm expecting Episode 3 to unveil the Order of Shadows being hostile to the Commander in some form, and it will be revealed that Kito and some others (Kossan for example) are actually being mislead, thinking their actions are for a greater good than they are.

As for the glory part, all lore indicates that the Order of Shadows doesn't care about glory, but maintaining status quo. The Commander's presence upsets status quo. There
will
be hostilities between Shadows and Commander. The question is who, when, and how.

Though SHADOWS Fall...

You're joking on that bit, right? That's Fear Not This Night original lyrics there... And represents the darkness of Zhaitan's domain of Shadow (and the general Elder Dragon plight too but the song was primarily focused around fighting Zhaitan).

Yes, a small joko of mine ;)))

But don't you think it is kinda suspicious that he brings an idea that turns into the plan and then we can see that only 3 of us enter the Lab? A good strategist makes itself sure that everything is gonna work out just fine. Trailer calls him "The man with the plan"- what's his plan though I don't know, but I can't really trust him after that he misled Zaeim.

I honestly don't think that Kito will be coming in with us- companions for a given story chapter tend to be chosen either for character interaction/development or narrative utility, and Kito doesn't bring much of either to the table for what we know of this mission- but to play Devil's Advocate, the man trailed us invisibly for most of the last episode, which is a much more elegant tool for infiltration than disguises and acting. Not seeing him with us in the trailer doesn't mean he's not there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

not sure if it means anything but i noticed this line in "DayBreak" during Spearmashal Zaeim's rescue,Spearmashal Zaeim: Oh—the famous commander. Agent Kito told us tales of how the two of you killed Balthazar.and then later:Spearmashal Zaeim: Is it true you and Agent Kito also killed two Elder Dragons?now i haven't finish PoF yet, so not sure if he helped kill Balthazar, but i find it troubling that Kito is taking credit for those fights, when he wasn't there during the dragon fights.edit: nevermind, OP already mention it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could see Kito being a traitor, but I don't think the whole order of shadows would be working against us. Story-wise it would make sense, but for that to happen, they'd have to really overhaul the Desolation. Having the whole organization out for our blood, and yet buddy-buddy when we get to the Chantry of Shadows and need our help with the forged? That wouldn't make sense and their current design philosophy seems to want to avoid changing existing maps too much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Overlord RainyDay.2084" said:I could see Kito being a traitor, but I don't think the whole order of shadows would be working against us. Story-wise it would make sense, but for that to happen, they'd have to really overhaul the Desolation. Having the whole organization out for our blood, and yet buddy-buddy when we get to the Chantry of Shadows and need our help with the forged? That wouldn't make sense and their current design philosophy seems to want to avoid changing existing maps too much.

I wouldn't say it was so much us being "buddies" as much as it was Order of Shadows likes to keep a balance to things to promote their own agenda (whatever that agenda may be, I don't see how they benefit from letting Joko stay in power) but Balthazar was very much the sort to start tipping the scales. Can't really shadow a civil war between the Sunspears and Awakened when a god of fire and fury and a giant crystal dragon is making everything in their path turn to ash. Hell, Kralkatorrik branded an entire area of land so hard that it was as dangerous as the Desolation.

So it would explain why they were friends. But Balthazar's dead and Kralkatorrik flew back north. At this point they might see us as a meddling liability but also a liability that they don't want to take care of because, well, we did kill Balthazar...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Overlord RainyDay.2084" said:for that to happen, they'd have to really overhaul the Desolation.

"Maps are stuck in time" - MO

So they wouldn't. The Desolation still treats Balthazar as an active threat, and Joko MIA. So it's already massively outdated. Let alone going to every other map prior to PoF.

And the whole "why would they be buddy buddy yet our for our blood" - why are we allied with Awakened in Vabbi, despite a bounty being put on our heads and every Awakened made aware of who we are?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:And the whole "why would they be buddy buddy yet our for our blood" - why are we allied with Awakened in Vabbi, despite a bounty being put on our heads and every Awakened made aware of who we are?

Pretty sure the moment you leave a story instance you cease being the commander and instead become random adventurer #42343. If I recall there are a number of open world NPC in core tyria that refer to you as such, although since HoT Anet seems to have muddied the distinction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Crinn.7864 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:And the whole "why would they be buddy buddy yet our for our blood" - why are we allied with Awakened in Vabbi, despite a bounty being put on our heads and every Awakened made aware of who we are?

Pretty sure the moment you leave a story instance you cease being the commander and instead become random adventurer #42343. If I recall there are a number of open world NPC in core tyria that refer to you as such, although since HoT Anet seems to have muddied the distinction.

That's compounded by the fact that there wouldn't really be hordes of random adventurers in Vabbi. The commander and their team have a solid reason to be there, and there are a few Priory folks who've also been motivated to make the trip... but as far as we've seen, that's it in the way of Tyrians who've come so far south.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Crinn.7864 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:And the whole "why would they be buddy buddy yet our for our blood" - why are we allied with Awakened in Vabbi, despite a bounty being put on our heads and every Awakened made aware of who we are?

Pretty sure the moment you leave a story instance you cease being the commander and instead become random adventurer #42343. If I recall there are a number of open world NPC in core tyria that refer to you as such, although since HoT Anet seems to have muddied the distinction.

This used to be how ArenaNet treated the player character. This ceased to be with Heart of Thorns, where we got a multitude of events and dialogue calling the PC Commander in the open world. This trend continued in S3, PoF, and we even see it in Istan.

We are now "The Commander" 24/7 in the game. Everyone is that random adventurer #42343.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@TriEdge.5149 said:order of Shadows is gonna betray us at some point I'm sure of it :D

it already betrayed us.

But I think that story will move to Tyria again, we are done in Elona and this episode closed our journey in there, at least for now. I mean there is still Kralk in there, but it seems we must focus on taking care of our continent, not Elona.

But I think the 3rd episode will be last for Joko. He doesn't have any army from Elona, only the scarabs, and we all know villains don't get their happy endings, at least if they want to change. And if we won't kill him, then our last chance is to beg him for mercy. And thats what is his happy ending- he likes to see how others beg him to spare their lives.I wanted to free Joko from the prison so bad, because I knew how this would end... Now we have to pay for all the writers did to him. :D

The next episode is going to be extremely interesting. And Joko is the villain this game deserves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Arden.7480 said:

But I think that story will move to Tyria again, we are done in Elona and this episode closed our journey in there, at least for now. I mean there is still Kralk in there, but it seems we must focus on taking care of our continent, not Elona.

But I think the 3rd episode will be last for Joko. He doesn't have any army from Elona, only the scarabs, and we all know villains don't get their happy endings, at least if they want to change.

I'm not as confident about that. The only 'win' condition here for us is if we hit Joko before he unleashes the plague, and that means going after him in Elona, in the heart of that Awakened army. The guy won't be kind enough to come to us until our continent is leveled, and waiting for that is no option at all.

We might have an episode away from Elona, if the Plague countermeasures we're looking into lead us that way, but I suspect we'll be right back afterwards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Arden.7480 said:

@TriEdge.5149 said:order of Shadows is gonna betray us at some point I'm sure of it :D

it already betrayed us.

But I think that story will move to Tyria again, we are done in Elona and this episode closed our journey in there, at least for now. I mean there is still Kralk in there, but it seems we must focus on taking care of our continent, not Elona.

But I think the 3rd episode will be last for Joko. He doesn't have any army from Elona, only the scarabs, and we all know villains don't get their happy endings, at least if they want to change. And if we won't kill him, then our last chance is to beg him for mercy. And thats what is his happy ending- he likes to see how others beg him to spare their lives.I wanted to free Joko from the prison so bad, because I knew how this would end... Now we have to pay for all the writers did to him. :D

The next episode is going to be extremely interesting. And Joko is the villain this game deserves.

I think this episode showed that he does have an army still. There are thousands of Awakened around Rata Primus, and I doubt he'd put the bulk of his forces in one Inquest facility without completely taking it over.

I think Joko had made it pretty clear that there's no mercy for the Commander though.

Even if we manage to stop Joko from unleashing the Scarab Plague (something I'm not entirely sure we'll succeed with - ArenaNet's been having a strong case of half-victories with GW2), I doubt we'll be killing him next episode. Best case (for our heroes) scenario: we stop the Scarab Plague, but while we're concentrating on that, Joko slips away to be a threat for the future, and either Kralkatorrik, or Overseer Kuda will become a threat for Episode 5.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...