broken damage numbers

The direction this game takes is worrying. In this post I am speaking from a support player standpoint and while I do understand that people do not enjoy endless stalemate fights I agree with the removal of magi amulet. This way firebrands can add more pressure to each other in order to force cooldowns and it also cuts overall sustain. BUT there is no point in playing support when people legit get oneshot. The burst damage has to be nerfed significantly. It is not fun to die with all cooldowns up when you don't even get to use them. Teamfights should be decided by cooldown management, swapping targets, coordination and communication and not by oneshotting people. If you are gonna kill the support role this will also kill the viability of any class that relies on support like necro and partially revenant, too. Right now I feel like I can not keep up with the support vs power classes, people just die in the cast time of a single heal and besides heal firebrand offers nothing, no damage, no 1v1 potential, no snowball potential, no mobility, no 1v2 potential to stall. The support role has already died in the ranked gamemode and even in tournaments like the last monthly subpar 5-dps setups made it into the finals of both Na and EU monthly. While the proposed changes already adress warrior and holo dps changes you are not planing to touch mesmer and thief, the most broken classes in the game. To visualize what I am talking about I will just give you examples of how stupid power damage in the current meta is:

https://clips.twitch.tv/AcceptableBlazingPeppermintWow medium armor + vitality amulet getting clean oneshot from stealth by a single mesmer.

https://clips.twitch.tv/TangentialFrozenAdminUWot s/d thief dealing ~23k damage and removing 2x aegis in 3-4 seconds on heavy armor target 1v1 no might stacks. I was at 100% hp + aegis when I started casting sanctuary. Feel free to pause the clip at the point where I start casting sanctuary and rewatch it carefully. I also got hit 5x inside my sanctuary (fix pls). Now Imagine a second mesmer/holo hits you aswell, there is no way to heal/kite that. A class that offers nothing but heal atleast needs to be able to survive a single player, yet more firebrand nerfs are planned but no thief damage nerfs.

https://clips.twitch.tv/ProudIntelligentPlumPhilosoraptor another top player (he is using a toughnes amulet) being skillfully outplayed by stupid class, good luck supporting through that.

https://clips.twitch.tv/InexpensiveSilkyHyenaPupper I landed a couple of oneshots myself as core guardian, then this happened xD The game turns into a clown fiesta.

When ele and core guardian do burst people on 30 second cooldowns without extraordinary disengage ability the risk/reward may be justified, but for mesmer and thief who can spam this kind of damage while being able to reliably disengage from overcommitment it is not acceptable + mes/thief also can use this mobility for decaps and +1s which guard/ele cant and mesmer has access to the strongest and unique utility in the game that has no counterplay to it (portal).

What's sad is that you even have to show this. How on earth does internal testing not expose stuff like the mesmer?...or...How do they know about it and don't fix it?

Life is tough for any reapers doing spvp.

@Axl.8924 said:Life is tough for any reapers doing spvp.

If I have someone say their a reaper in ranked I know that myself or the ele I run with is going to have to carry them. Any necro spec outside Scourge is a death sentence and scourge is too unless there’s two or a FB with them.

I'm on board with shaving ele burst by a bit, but please give some condi clear or better barriers to non-water using weavers PLEASE.

Mesmer/thief stay overpowered under the justification they require time investments to learn to extract their potential.I think rewarding people with god-tier classes for spending a bit of time to learn their class is a bit overkill though.

So basically you are asking to make infinite DRUID vs DRUID fights possible with every class now !No thnks !

I saw a Mesmer instagib a Ranger then I saw a Thief instagib a Mesmer... It's almost like a game of "Rock, Paper and Scissors".....

So all I can think of now is:

1st video he had a chance to use his stone signet but was too slow2nd video guardian almost lasted a full minute standing still in the middle of the point3rd video the person got rekt by 2 people

I dont see these as a good representation of your point as all 3 could have easily been preventable. In the 1st video you see obvious time for him to react. Then 2nd video should be self explanatory since he stood still in the middle of the point failing to even turn his camera to track the thief's movement. The 3rd video is of someone having really bad situational awareness and being smoked by 2 ppl

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:So basically you are asking to make infinite DRUID vs DRUID fights possible with every class now !No thnks !

This is a textbook example of what we call a straw man argument, please don't make straw man arguments like this, they are either dishonest or severely misguided.

@Jinks.2057 said:1st video he had a chance to use his stone signet but was too slow2nd video guardian almost lasted a full minute standing still in the middle of the point3rd video the person got rekt by 2 people

I dont see these as a good representation of your point as all 3 could have easily been preventable. In the 1st video you see obvious time for him to react. Then 2nd video should be self explanatory since he stood still in the middle of the point failing to even turn his camera to track the thief's movement. The 3rd video is of someone having really bad situational awareness and being smoked by 2 pplI think the point is that people don't enjoy for an enemy to be able to come out of the shadows and singlehandedly 100-0% them instantly, which isn't all that unreasonable.

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:1st video he had a chance to use his stone signet but was too slow2nd video guardian almost lasted a full minute standing still in the middle of the point3rd video the person got rekt by 2 people

I dont see these as a good representation of your point as all 3 could have easily been preventable. In the 1st video you see obvious time for him to react. Then 2nd video should be self explanatory since he stood still in the middle of the point failing to even turn his camera to track the thief's movement. The 3rd video is of someone having really bad situational awareness and being smoked by 2 pplI think the point is that people don't enjoy for an enemy to be able to come out of the shadows and singlehandedly 100-0% them instantly, which isn't all that unreasonable.

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@"Jinks.2057" said:1st video he had a chance to use his stone signet but was too slow2nd video guardian almost lasted a full minute standing still in the middle of the point3rd video the person got rekt by 2 people

I dont see these as a good representation of your point as all 3 could have easily been preventable. In the 1st video you see obvious time for him to react. Then 2nd video should be self explanatory since he stood still in the middle of the point failing to even turn his camera to track the thief's movement. The 3rd video is of someone having really bad situational awareness and being smoked by 2 pplI think the point is that people don't enjoy for an enemy to be able to come out of the shadows and singlehandedly 100-0% them instantly, which isn't all that unreasonable.

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@"Jinks.2057" said:1st video he had a chance to use his stone signet but was too slow2nd video guardian almost lasted a full minute standing still in the middle of the point3rd video the person got rekt by 2 people

I dont see these as a good representation of your point as all 3 could have easily been preventable. In the 1st video you see obvious time for him to react. Then 2nd video should be self explanatory since he stood still in the middle of the point failing to even turn his camera to track the thief's movement. The 3rd video is of someone having really bad situational awareness and being smoked by 2 pplI think the point is that people don't enjoy for an enemy to be able to come out of the shadows and singlehandedly 100-0% them instantly, which isn't all that unreasonable.

Ahh let me introduce you to Anet logic then. Turret engi was wrecking havoc in hot join and low tier ranked pvp a couple years ago. Mid- high tier players didn’t have a problem rotating around it but the complaints came rolling in on the forums from a relatively small group that complained incessantly about how everything but their class was op. Turret engi, and engi in general, was gutted shortly after. No half measures, gutted.

Now come to the present. Anet is going to put Exhaustion on EM to nerf Mirage. The thing is EM isn’t taken for the stun break, rather the condition clear because it can still dodge while stunned. Outside of vigor and energy sigils mirage has no way to regain endurance so no one will be taking EM anymore. Rather than putting a cd on the stun break, or removing it altogether and adding a second condi clear or something they make it worthless. It’s not logical by any means. That’s just one example. Look at reaper, ele, rev, core necro, any engi spec outside holo, etc and you can trace back all the illogical nerfs done on them.

At this time my only hope is Mesmer doesn’t get nuked and Anet rolls out reworks similar to the recent Mesmer one for all the other classes. At this time I think that’s the only way to get things right.

Some of the only professions capable of dealing with this are getting gutted in the upcoming nerf patch. Holo in particular is seeing a massive over nerf. Survivability of other profs will also be hit, while thieves will be spamming 2 again and seeing wild numbers. Although I come from WvW with my opinions, I feel for you pvp guys.

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@"Jinks.2057" said:1st video he had a chance to use his stone signet but was too slow2nd video guardian almost lasted a full minute standing still in the middle of the point3rd video the person got rekt by 2 people

I dont see these as a good representation of your point as all 3 could have easily been preventable. In the 1st video you see obvious time for him to react. Then 2nd video should be self explanatory since he stood still in the middle of the point failing to even turn his camera to track the thief's movement. The 3rd video is of someone having really bad situational awareness and being smoked by 2 pplI think the point is that people don't enjoy for an enemy to be able to come out of the shadows and singlehandedly 100-0% them instantly, which isn't all that unreasonable.

Oh the irony in the recent Blackjack Threadsi guess thats karma

@Kasdwer.3721 said:Oh the irony in the recent Blackjack Threadsi guess thats karma

hello fello teef you ranked? how far did you get in?

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@"Jinks.2057" said:1st video he had a chance to use his stone signet but was too slow2nd video guardian almost lasted a full minute standing still in the middle of the point3rd video the person got rekt by 2 people

I dont see these as a good representation of your point as all 3 could have easily been preventable. In the 1st video you see obvious time for him to react. Then 2nd video should be self explanatory since he stood still in the middle of the point failing to even turn his camera to track the thief's movement. The 3rd video is of someone having really bad situational awareness and being smoked by 2 pplI think the point is that people don't enjoy for an enemy to be able to come out of the shadows and singlehandedly 100-0% them instantly, which isn't all that unreasonable.

I don’t disagree that EM is strong, it is. But the way they’re going about nerfing it is wrong. Exhaustion, regardless of the amount of vigor up time we can have, ruins the trait. Like I said above, the better option would be an icd, adding a second condi clear and a mirror, anything really would be better than exhaustion. The Mesmer forum has tons of ideas that would make it competitive with IH and still useful. There’s already enough worthless traits, GM’s especially, that the game doesn’t need more.

@"kin korn karn.9023" said:A bit unrelated I guess, but I'll follow your digression. EM is broken as it is and needed a nerf, and it's not just about the condi clear. Sure, without EM you can dodge through stuns, but with it, you're instantly back in the fight. With all the vigor Mesmer has, it's insane to have such frequent access to stun breaks. I think it'll still be somewhat viable after the nerf, but as strong as Infinite Horizon is, I expect most Mirages will opt for that.

I dunno if its just on my level, but as I see more and more mesmers opting for the Chaos traitline with bountiful disillusionment (stab on shatter), I can very well see this happening even if they don't touch the stunbreak component on EM and just add the exhaustion debuff.Exhaustion, in my opinion, is a very imprudent "fix" in general (for thief and mesmer alike). A trait that penalizes people for using it is just evidence of lack of imagination... just rework the damn thing.

Anyway...on topic:

First off: some of these clips are kinda missleading. The one where misha supposedly got one shot by a thief, shows, that there were a revenant and hammer guardian around as well...so I dunno if all the credit actually goes to a "stupd thief oneshot". The clip where Bik gets instagibbed also is kinda wonky, since I think I saw a CS being used by the mesmer and would argue for - at least in my opinion - macro abuse.

The clip where you 1v1 that thief just shows how stupid and braindead S/D thief gameplay is....like srsly Anet....can we adress this already? Sw3 is completely busted. Boonstrip, unblockable, evade frame and high dmg ....pick 2. And while we are at it, what about Swindlers Equilibrium? Like who even thought of that?

A: You know what would be a cool trait?B: What?A: A 100% recharge on steal!B: W-Wouldnt that be broken?A: Well....The thief has to dodge an attack tho.B: gasps Ship it! Ship it NOW!

Other than that, I completely agree with OP. Instant cast burst combos have actually made PvP weird to play. GW2s combat system should promote interactive and reactive gameplay, instead you see people using dodgerolls as a preemptive measure, which rely more on predictions than on reactions.

Yeah this is why I am really not sure how this nerf to cooldowns on certain builds is going to work. But that's the thing. they are legit complaints but some take it too far. Some complaints adress glaring balance issues. and others simply ask for a playstyle that is not different then thier own percieved status quo.

Surging runes- Sorry but this rune doesn't need to be fucking removed.the 6th bonus actually rewards active game play and picking the right moment over just randomly using it. the only reason it is problematic is because certain elite skills have no visual animation. at best u could increase the cooldown. fuck why not ad some visual cue on the 6th bonus before activating the damn amulet then removing it all together

People complaining about the fucking trebuchet now. Like come on man.

People complaining about the skyhammer jump pads making kiting to easy.

This is where we are moving to, a stupid ass zerker burst meta. but there is such a fucking aversion and hate to anything that doesn't die 1 v 1, or anything not power related be they balanced or not the incessant whining kills playstyles.

the above and A-net going too far with overnerfs as well. honestly i'm still giving this upcoming patch a chance, but they better fucking be aware that increasing cooldowns on passive skills and not dealing with damage might fucking make this one of the most terrible patches.

I'm just saying that shit like fresh air weaver, deadeyes and other builds percieved as weak currently but deal a fuckon of damage need to be fucking kept an eye on even harder now.

People still complaining about firebrand for having too much sustain and being a nuisance to the point of removing magi? Seriously? That dang spec has so many freaking openings and good trade-offs to kill them easy peasy. Never really had a problem with firebrands and I played it as well as fought against it, it's clear as black on white. I am glad I left pvp because I find some people who qq about l2p issues, quite repulsive. This game's easy mode pvp has spoiled you all is what I see.

Broken sustain numbers:Firebrand, Druid, Spellbreaker

Broken amount of cc:Druid, Thief, Holosmith, Warrior

Broken evade frame numbers:Mesmer, Thief, Revenant

Broken stability uptime:Firebrand, Holosmith, Mesmer on some builds

Broken mobility:Thief, Mesmer, Revenant

Broken damage numbers:Guard, Necro (except core), Ele (fresh air), Thief, Mesmer, Revenant

Maybe i forgot something to list.

@Jinks.2057 said:too slow1 second too slow on something completely unexpected.

@Jinks.2057 said:1st video he had a chance to use his stone signet but was too slow2nd video guardian almost lasted a full minute standing still in the middle of the point3rd video the person got rekt by 2 people

I dont see these as a good representation of your point as all 3 could have easily been preventable. In the 1st video you see obvious time for him to react. Then 2nd video should be self explanatory since he stood still in the middle of the point failing to even turn his camera to track the thief's movement. The 3rd video is of someone having really bad situational awareness and being smoked by 2 ppl

I have to disagree with you on the first vid. The fact that he had a VERY little window to not get downed is not balanced at all. What's more, the build that got bursted was far from a glass build. And all that from a stealth attack. That was a low risk high reward play, and on plat rating.