The portrait of Joko's Gray

Hello all!The thing that hit me the most of the new LW trailer is the moving portrait of Joko at the end. I was thinking that maybe Joko is so resilient cause his way of becoming a lich is not just binding his soul to a philactery but to a magic portrait as in the Oscar wilde's book. That's why Joko can't be killed but only imprisoned. What do you think guys?

In Guild Wars, liches do not bind their souls to objects or phylacteries. Khilbron's soul, for example, was very much in his body when he was slain. The source of their immortality isn't particularly clear, but it isn't the same as traditional liches.

It would also seem unlikely that even if they use phylacteries, that Joko would put his into an Inquest base that's only recently been invaded, and not some highly secured location in the heart of Elona.

If we find joko’s weakness it will probably be in kourna or at his tomb that’s probably some heavily guarded fortress by now.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:If we find joko’s weakness it will probably be in kourna or at his tomb that’s probably some heavily guarded fortress by now.

If Joko is the patient military genius he's been painted as, it should be the opposite; somewhere unguarded but unassuming. Having something as precious as one's soul heavily guarded is a bit of a giveaway, like having a button marked "Do not press"; it's asking to be destroyed. Hiding it somewhere random is arguably more secure.

Having said that, as has been stated above, beyond one or two items named 'phylactery', no evidence has ever been seen in GW lore that liches use them. They certainly forfeit their soul somewhere along the line, in some way, but it isn't necessarily transferred to another object.

@"Aedil.1296" said:Hello all!The thing that hit me the most of the new LW trailer is the moving portrait of Joko at the end. I was thinking that maybe Joko is so resilient cause his way of becoming a lich is not just binding his soul to a philactery but to a magic portrait as in the Oscar wilde's book. That's why Joko can't be killed but only imprisoned. What do you think guys?

If this happen, it would be a nice way to bring Lyssa to the plot, since Lyssa is related to mirrors. and theres lots of Lyssa stuff to be explained in PoF:

@Manpag.6421 said:Having said that, as has been stated above, beyond one or two items named 'phylactery', no evidence has ever been seen in GW lore that liches use them. They certainly forfeit their soul somewhere along the line, in some way, but it isn't necessarily transferred to another object.If we count both uses, the second is used for standard undead, indicating that while phylacteries are tied to undead somehow, it isn't tied to lichdom since none of the Awakened champions we face are, in fact, liches.

@ugrakarma.9416 said:If this happen, it would be a nice way to bring Lyssa to the plot, since Lyssa is related to mirrors. and theres lots of Lyssa stuff to be explained in PoF:...

How does a moving portrait of a lich with a soul embedded within relate to mirrors and the goddess of beauty and illusion, exactly?

People really make drastic leaps that I have no clue how it happens.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:How does a moving portrait of a lich with a soul embedded within relate to mirrors and the goddess of beauty and illusion, exactly?People really make drastic leaps that I have no clue how it happens.

lols, yeah, forget what I said, it was a big lapse.

while was reading topic, I just had remembered that there are other fictions inspired by the story of Dorian Gray where one has mirrors instead of self-portraits.

Phylacteries don't really exist in Guild Wars lore, or at least not yet. Granted we've only ever come in contact with two liches: Khilbron and Joko. While Khilbron had a ring added to the game and it was called his phylactery, it was an introduction to GW2 - in GW1 we were only able to kill him by making sure he died on the bloodstone.

I suppose it raises the question though if the phylactery is canon and, if so, would it have killed Khilbron and not sent him to the Realm of Torment if we destroyed that instead of killing him on the bloodstone? And if phylacteries are used, will we need to find Joko's or would Aurene's magic be enough to act as a portable bloodstone? @"Konig Des Todes.2086"

My guess is we're just going to take the generic "we're good at smashing things and also happen to have a superpowered adolescent dragon on our heels." You know, the same thing that pushed us to defeating Balthazar.

@Cuddy.6247 said:Phylacteries don't really exist in Guild Wars lore, or at least not yet. Granted we've only ever come in contact with two liches: Khilbron and Joko.

More than two.

• https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dragon_Lich
• https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Zoldark_the_Unholy
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mazdak_the_Accursed
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Champion_Risen_Lich

And technically The Hunter as well, as it was given similar powers that Khilbron had, by Khilbron. Fendi Nin functioned similarly enough to a lich as well.

Mind you, of these 8 individuals, only four (Khilbron, Joko, The Hunter, and Mazdak) have been proven to be immune to standard means of killing. Mazdak was only able to be killed by Caladbolg, Khilbron by ripping his soul out of his body, and Joko and the Hunter still roam the world/Mists. Of the other four, two were exceptionally powerful necromancers who have some unusual traits - Fendi Nin being able to re-possess his body upon re-death, and Zoldark able to give that unkillable trait other liches have to his own minions (at the cost of his own vulnerability).

The last two, Dragon Liches and Risen Liches, while called liches, exhibit no special traits.

@Cuddy.6247 said:I suppose it raises the question though if the phylactery is canon and, if so, would it have killed Khilbron and not sent him to the Realm of Torment if we destroyed that instead of killing him on the bloodstone? And if phylacteries are used, will we need to find Joko's or would Aurene's magic be enough to act as a portable bloodstone? @"Konig Des Todes.2086"

My guess is we're just going to take the generic "we're good at smashing things and also happen to have a superpowered adolescent dragon on our heels." You know, the same thing that pushed us to defeating Balthazar.Aurene shouldn't be able to function as a portal bloodstone in this case. What killed Khilbron was ultimately us forcibly tearing his soul out - technically it was more the soul batteries attached to the Bloodstone, rather than the Bloodstone itself (or maybe the markings? It's not entirely clear still). If Joko is the same, then we would need to forcibly separate his soul from his body (something we did to Fendi Nin just by beating his body down, then we destroyed his soul; but Fendi Nin was weaker than Khilbron and undoubtably Joko too).

On an aside, it was "technically" Sohothin, being Balthazar's own sword, which allowed us to damage the god - Aurene merely gave us protection, and assisted with a dual strike when Sohothin proved insufficient.

Still wish that they gave an in-game statement that Sohothin was Balthazar's, and I still wish they had us gather Magdaer and the crown to unleash that power rather than suddenly armageddon powers!

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Cuddy.6247 said:Phylacteries don't really exist in Guild Wars lore, or at least not yet. Granted we've only ever come in contact with two liches: Khilbron and Joko.

• https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dragon_Lich
• https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Zoldark_the_Unholy
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mazdak_the_Accursed
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Champion_Risen_Lich

@Cuddy.6247 said:I suppose it raises the question though if the phylactery is canon and, if so, would it have killed Khilbron and not sent him to the Realm of Torment if we destroyed that instead of killing him on the bloodstone? And if phylacteries are used, will we need to find Joko's or would Aurene's magic be enough to act as a portable bloodstone? @Konig Des Todes.2086

My guess is we're just going to take the generic "we're good at smashing things and also happen to have a superpowered adolescent dragon on our heels." You know, the same thing that pushed us to defeating Balthazar.Aurene shouldn't be able to function as a portal bloodstone in this case. What killed Khilbron was ultimately us forcibly tearing his soul out - technically it was more the soul batteries attached to the Bloodstone, rather than the Bloodstone itself (or maybe the markings? It's not entirely clear still). If Joko is the same, then we would need to forcibly separate his soul from his body (something we did to Fendi Nin just by beating his body down, then we destroyed his soul; but Fendi Nin was weaker than Khilbron and undoubtably Joko too).

Now THAT would have made a lot more sense - it would explain why it wasn't something that Rytlock could tap into whenever he wanted.

Heck, take it a step further and make it clear that doing it more than once might break something important...

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:> > Still wish that they gave an in-game statement that Sohothin was Balthazar's, and I still wish they had us gather Magdaer and the crown to unleash that power rather than suddenly armageddon powers!

Well, nothing ever said we didn't still have the crown on hand. Just would have been nice to get a line saying such. But duel-wielding Sohothin and Magdaer would have been a supremely epic moment IMO.

So the picture is a horcrux?

well now that chapter came out, anyone did see the portrait? i completed the history, and didnt see nothing. so the portrait is purely for the trailer aesthetics?

I don't know, am I the only one seeing the portrait moving? Maybe I imagined it lol I think it's something important, i don't know why. I never thought it was in the inquest base tho. BTW officially we do not know how to become a lich in gw but there are a lot of hints to philacterys. Would be nice the idea of Joko's invulnerability secret being something so fragile as a portrait. I could imagine the desperate hunt to find it all over Tyria discovering new info on Joko's story on the way. The kilbron philactery is a big hint tho of how he became a lichi guess. Omg please Anet we need to know how lich works in gw!!!! ?

@ugrakarma.9416 said:well now that chapter came out, anyone did see the portrait? i completed the history, and didnt see nothing. so the portrait is purely for the trailer aesthetics?

I never saw it

@Aedil.1296 said:I don't know, am I the only one seeing the portrait moving? Maybe I imagined it lol I think it's something important, i don't know why. I never thought it was in the inquest base tho. BTW officially we do not know how to become a lich in gw but there are a lot of hints to philacterys. Would be nice the idea of Joko's invulnerability secret being something so fragile as a portrait. I could imagine the desperate hunt to find it all over Tyria discovering new info on Joko's story on the way. The kilbron philactery is a big hint tho of how he became a lichi guess. Omg please Anet we need to know how lich works in gw!!!! ?

It def moved, it has been discussed in a few diff threads

Pretty sure that scene was just a nod back to Joko as he is the main villain at the moment and it was an aesthetic way to include him directly.

Judging from the area around the portrait, I'm assuming it would be either in Vabbi in the crypts, below where the judge events are or in the underground at the deadhouse.