[Sugg.] Make T3 Gates Reinforced Again

I'd like to see Tier 3 objectives have reinforced gates again. Doing so will encourage havoc groups hitting multiple T3 objectives, golem rushes, large battles in and around T3 keeps, and generally more excitement in WvW. Currently a T3 objective is pretty much a no-go zone unless you attack during off-hours. Let's make T3 gates Reinforced again.

heres what i suggested on the other threadhttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/417803#Comment_417803

When did tier 3 objectives stop having tier 3 gates? As far as I know they are exactly the same as always (tier 3 gates).

Is there a reason to upgrade to anything to T3 w this?

Just doing the gates is boring. We could fix it globally. Just do:

1) raise the cost of shield gens to 80/100

2) lower the cost of trebs to 60/80

3) give trebs shield bubble mastery at twice the cooldown of a cata.

4) increase treb damage vs reinforced and fortified by 2x.

Boom. Long range offensive siege is cheaper than defensive. 3 people can build a normal/guild treb. Defenders are either forced out or forced to activly defend even T2/T3 from smaller forces that can threaten it. No more dumping catas on walls supported by shield gens just because thats your only effective option. True sieges with fireballs flying all over the place.

1. Remove Arrow Cart from WvW
2. Remove Arrow Cart from WvW
3. Remove Arrow Cart from WvW

4. WvW Great again

   (Real lol)

5. Nerf Arrow Cart Damge or Remove Arrow Cart from WvW
6. Remove Iron Guards Tactics (Reducing incoming damge by 50%)
7. Remove Tower/Keep Auto upgrad ( player need pay money to NPC)
8. Buff Ram/Cata Siege Damge

I don't think any objective should have Tier 3. Tier 3 Keeps that will never be attacked during the matchup (not flipped, but never even properly attacked). T3 SM that nightcapping-heavy server blobs camp whole day during prime time. T3 towers that are totally ignored prime time and only get flipped once most players go to sleep and PvD groups start to roam on empty maps. They all just make WvW boring.

@Djamonja.6453 said:When did tier 3 objectives stop having tier 3 gates? As far as I know they are exactly the same as always (tier 3 gates).

Gates used to be reinforced on tier3, with HoT they changed it so gates also became fortified.

I understand a lot of you guys want big changes, but I'm hoping we can work in small, baby steps so ANet considers making this happen.

When the game was launched, all T3 objectives had fortified walls and reinforced gates, and Garrison had a perpetual paper gate on inner water gate. This allowed for a lot of fun fights and made T3 objectives "crackable" if you sneaked them or hit them with a ton of force. T3 defense has actually gotten MUCH easier due to shield gens, upgrades, auras, supply access and tactivators that weren't around at the start of the game. This is a relatively small step aimed at making T3 objectives easier to attack rather than no-go zones during prime time.

Just to clarify since I didn't pick it up right away, and it looks like others are also confusing the terms here:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Objective_upgrade#Automatic_upgrades

• Reinforced (40 dolyaks) - Reinforced Walls - Increases the health and defense values of the objective's walls and gates to reinforced levels.
• Fortified (80 dolyaks) - Reinforced Walls - Increases the health and defense values of the objective's walls and gates to Reinforced levels.

Ironically enough the Wiki isn't doing a thing to clarify this either..... bad wording.

But what you (OP) is asking for is to upgrade both WALLS and GATES on the "Reinforced" tier upgrade. And then only upgrade WALLS, but NOT GATES on the "Fortified" tier ?

And yeah, I do remember it used to be that way before HoT (and paper water-gate on garri). Personally I think the most interesting change that would cause, is actually seeing people use RAMS again and not just Cata's. Would like to see them run this as a couple of weeks "test".

I support this.

I say wait till restructure before messing with anything. Lest you run the risk of repeating dark times such as 6 months of 8 tiers with 3 DBLS each.

Changing the strength of t3 gates isn't going to make much of a difference.People cata instead because of the time required to take down a wall or gate while under siege, cata's will buy you more time from usually a safer distance.Havoc didn't die out because of gates, they died out because of stupid things like increased cost of guild catas, watchtower, and emergency waypoint. You could take old garrison through water gate with golems with a havoc team in under 3 mins little resistance, you obviously can't anymore with stuff like ewp around.

@"joneirikb.7506" said:

But what you (OP) is asking for is to upgrade both WALLS and GATES on the "Reinforced" tier upgrade. And then only upgrade WALLS, but NOT GATES on the "Fortified" tier ?

Personally I think the most interesting change that would cause, is actually seeing people use RAMS again and not just Cata's. Would like to see them run this as a couple of weeks "test".

This is exactly what I'm asking for, and I agree that a week or two testing phase would be the best way to try this change out.

@Jerry CCH.9816 said:

1. Remove Arrow Cart from WvW
2. Remove Arrow Cart from WvW
3. Remove Arrow Cart from WvW

4. WvW Great again

   (Real lol)

5. Nerf Arrow Cart Damge or Remove Arrow Cart from WvW
6. Remove Iron Guards Tactics (Reducing incoming damge by 50%)
7. Remove Tower/Keep Auto upgrad ( player need pay money to NPC)
8. Buff Ram/Cata Siege Damge

yes! fucking arrow carts

Make toughness reduce more ac's damage ._.

I really think ACs are the bigger issue -- walls get hit a lot more often than gates because it's much safer/easier anyway, so changing the gates wouldn't change all that much IMO.

Making things more paper won't help tbh. It will just backfires encouraging zerg/blob to form for k-train instead of splitting them. And yes, agree with HazyDaisy.4107 to see if the restructuring is going to happen. At the moment it sounds to me OP have a coverage issue ,outnumbered and supplies problem to siege.

NERF ACS! WvW is about fights, ACs are anti-fight.

@Eramonster.2718 said:Making things more paper won't help tbh. It will just backfires encouraging zerg/blob to form for k-train instead of splitting them. And yes, agree with HazyDaisy.4107 to see if the restructuring is going to happen. At the moment it sounds to me OP have a coverage issue ,outnumbered and supplies problem to siege.

We already have ktrains. The only difference is they hide in T3 structures to preserve their KDR now.

Let's use EU T1 as an example of where current system of way too upgradable objectives have gotten us. Remember, tons of players in each 3 servers, queues in prime time. An yet...

From 44 passed 2-hour Skirmishes so far Deso has won 43 (they lost 1 at Friday reset), Gandara has been on 2nd place 42 times, and Gunnars have reached 3rd place in 42 Skirmishes. Basically, after objectives reached T3 on Friday, the match died off. All the remaining Skirmishes will end exactly same way.

None of the Keeps in Deso BL map have ever been flipped. Even their NE tower has not been touched. Their EB Keep and both home towers beside the keep, never flipped. Even the Garri and Bay on Gandara BL map have not been taken. On the Gunnap's BL map, the keeps where last flipped on Sunday.

Other objectives have been taken by nightcrew or morningcrew walking around fighting doors and doing PvE on WvW. After they leave these paper objectives flip back again. From 3 servers only Deso has enough bored players to do this empty map capturing with large enough numbers. So, they win the match.

Prime time gameplay means Deso blobs sitting in their T3 keeps, waiting for someone to attack it so they can shoot all the hundreds of ACs and cannons and mortars and trebs at the enemy. The best and bravest jump around the gate for moment until running back inside to safety (and I am sure Deso players have similar views toward their opponents).

The result is, after objectives upgrade on Firday reset, objectives become meaningless. They are just things that have no value other then providing bonus stats from Objective Aura. Even if all these upgraded objectives disappeared on Saturday, it would not change one bit the result of the match. It's just... boring.

I know, not every Tier is same as T1. Some servers in lower tiers have much less players to defend so objectives are captured more often. Or they might have commanders who actually want to waste 6 hours from their life to flip T3 keep.

@Chaba.5410 said:We already have ktrains. The only difference is they hide in T3 structures to preserve their KDR now.

Boy.. I wonder what tier does that... XD

OP is looking for easy karma train. Go Eotm if you are lack of karma. What a troll post. I think anet should make objectives able to upgrade to T100.

Heres what happens when removing walls and doors on objective points looks like on a WvW scale with a PvP bleed tick per skirmish.Does it look like karma train on the eye of the beholder?

There used to be an event in the center of Desert Borderlands called Into the Oasis in which, if I recall correctly, the team that successfully accomplished it would have the enemy team's structures be damaged with Skysplitter by a significant amount, therefore making them much easier to attack and penetrate. However, it caused massive lag to all players every time it was active. Not to mention the unpopularity of the borderlands itself.That was supposed to be the trump card to use if defenders are siege humping or if their structures are too heavily fortified. They have to come out and prevent the other teams do that event, and in turn would generate fights.

Now that 2 out of the 3 BLs are not Desert, and the event removed, keeping the fortified upgrades of structures in the game gave defending a very huge advantage.