Bring Back 5 Man Ranked Que - Needs To Happen At This Point - Solo/Duo Failed — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Bring Back 5 Man Ranked Que - Needs To Happen At This Point - Solo/Duo Failed

Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

So, we need 5 man que in ranked again. Mainly so we have the option of blocking win trading. Oh and for those who want to come in here and post "blah blah blah I don't want to fight 5 man organized teams", don't be so quaint. You're still going against premade teams but you can't see them because they are invisible win trading teams. Recognize that if 5 man que were re-enabled, we could at least have the option of preventing throw matches.

In other words, this solo/duo only stuff is an illusion and just allows vulnerability for legit players to get one unclean and dirty match after another. It needs to stop.

<1345

Comments

  • rank eleven monk.9502rank eleven monk.9502 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2018

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. Please explain to me how being able to form a 5 man team, with only players that I trust, is going to enhance the chances of a win trader ALT landing on my team and throwing my game.
    2. The poll vote for doing solo/duo only was taken BEFORE people realized that solo/duo only was going to open up a Pandora's box of game throwing. I'd like to see another public poll. I'd like to see what people say now.

    1. It is obviously not going to enhance that. But it will enhance wintraders ever getting caught and the execution of wintrading. Queue with 5 alts and 5 mains at the same time, throw the game, profit. Noone will report you, and matchmaking will be incredibly easy as there will be only a handful of 5 men teams.
    2. There you go (consider that duoq is favored by more people than 5 man):
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28891/should-duoq-return-for-1600
    Obviously it's not as big as forced vote by Anet, but it's fairly representative.

    EDIT: I'd even go further, I'm assuming most people who support duo & 5 man are on the forums (because they care about pvp), while soloq-ers, well not that much. There was some statistic posted by Ben (maybe?) about the ratio soloq-duoq players and it was around 95%-5% IIRC.

  • thatdarnkatz.7168thatdarnkatz.7168 Member ✭✭✭

    We just had this. It ended up getting shot down by most players. Yes win trading is still an issue, yes it would be nice to actually play with friends in PvP outside of tournaments and it would make me play more. Yes you are correct in every way EXCEPT that the only reason win trading is so easy is because the population is so low. The only reason you are getting kitten teammates is because the population is low. You aren't getting 5 man back because the current system works IF there is more population. So stop making these threads please and bring people into PvP. Seriously. I hate it, I get screwed by matchmakers, I hate not playing with friends, but all I can do is shut up and bring people in to increase pop. Brought 5 new people in this month alone, so please help everyone and bring people in. That's your best bet, and will actually help.

  • rank eleven monk.9502rank eleven monk.9502 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    speaking as someone who has (along w all of my friends) quit gw2 (only here to skim balance patch & froum for a laugh)

    i honestly have to ask- why on earth you would try & bring people into a game that you can’t actually play w them? why would i suggest to my friend that we should spend the afternoon separately solo queuing vs wintraders & bots, when instead we could play 2v2s together in For Honour? one experience is solitary & frustrating, & the other is social & a lot of fun. surely we can agree that you & your pal facing foes together, while chatting on discord is lot more fun than facing separate foes alone & talking about your separate experiences? i mean, i feel like the ability to play with your friends is one of the reasons people usually play multiplayer games with their friends, instead of opting to play to separate single player games concurrently. wild thought i know....

    sure, you can say ATs or unranked- but unranked is a messy uncompetitive experience, & ATs hardly happen & are full of bots & exploiters. so those are pretty terrible pvp experiences. would not recommend at all.

    like, here’s my gw2 pvp breakdown

    • can’t play w friends
    • bad balance
    • limited gamemodes
    • lots of bots, hackers & exploiters
    • poor matchmaking due to low pop
    • combat is spammy due to powercreep

    like, honestly? what’s good about gw2 pvp? sure the combat is kinda fun, & the graphics are pretty good- but dang a lot of other games do that- it’s a low bar.

    any game that allows me to play w my friends on discord that has somewhat fun combat is actually a superior group gaming experience.

    it seems cruel to get people to buy gw2 for a social pvp experience.

    So you are basically here trying to convince everybody about how unenjoyable PvP is. You must be really bored.

  • Wolfric.9380Wolfric.9380 Member ✭✭✭

    Solo Q indeed opened pandoras box of gamethrowing. Because if one quits all are affected..... Teams are less likely to quit or at least the usually mutally agree to forfit which is then OK for all.... But as we all know mixing solo with premade will also degrade most solos to punching bags .... Which brigns us to the conclusion we need diffrent game modes... 5 Man only full team conquest and some due or trio modes ....

  • rank eleven monk.9502rank eleven monk.9502 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    I'm at the laundromat washing sheets dude ':-D

    it's not exactly riveting

    I was just wondering why someone would get people to play a game that they play, but that they actually wouldn't be able to play together. I'm honestly confused to the reason why anyone would do that

    like, why not just play a game where you can be on the same team lol

    Well, PvPers want more people to play because increased participation makes matchmaking quality better and removes the possibility of wintrading. It is pretty simple.

    And most people have played and play soloq anyways and not with friends.

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2018

    Sadly they won't ever bring it for rank purposes, however the update they are going to do for tournments SHOULD be great for team players that has a 5 man premade as it is. This would ALLOW us to test builds with actual solid teams and not give us one sided matches where we won't know if a build is legit or not due to the massive one sided battles.

    The whole idea of tournaments being refreshed after they are completed is going to be great and I cant wait for the swizz style to be added as well. I would just let this season finish and die off because after this I'll no longer focus on playing rank seriously anymore it isn't worth the effort or frustration. Rating doesn't mean jack kitten anymore , and I been able to show that by having a "gold rated" team play against some top tier Plat players ( can't always beat them) who has lost to us or been really close to losing to us(some times we aren't close when it's naru team lol).

    I just dont think the rank system makes much sense at all how it should be "placing people" overall.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2018

    @tartarus.1082 said:

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    speaking as someone who has (along w all of my friends) quit gw2 (only here to skim balance patch & froum for a laugh)

    i honestly have to ask- why on earth you would try & bring people into a game that you can’t actually play w them? why would i suggest to my friend that we should spend the afternoon separately solo queuing vs wintraders & bots, when instead we could play 2v2s together in For Honour? one experience is solitary & frustrating, & the other is social & a lot of fun. surely we can agree that you & your pal facing foes together, while chatting on discord is lot more fun than facing separate foes alone & talking about your separate experiences? i mean, i feel like the ability to play with your friends is one of the reasons people usually play multiplayer games with their friends, instead of opting to play to separate single player games concurrently. wild thought i know....

    sure, you can say ATs or unranked- but unranked is a messy uncompetitive experience, & ATs hardly happen & are full of bots & exploiters. so those are pretty terrible pvp experiences. would not recommend at all.

    like, here’s my gw2 pvp breakdown

    • can’t play w friends
    • bad balance
    • limited gamemodes
    • lots of bots, hackers & exploiters
    • poor matchmaking due to low pop
    • combat is spammy due to powercreep

    like, honestly? what’s good about gw2 pvp? sure the combat is kinda fun, & the graphics are pretty good- but dang a lot of other games do that- it’s a low bar.

    any game that allows me to play w my friends on discord that has somewhat fun combat is actually a superior group gaming experience.

    it seems cruel to get people to buy gw2 for a social pvp experience.

    So you are basically here trying to convince everybody about how unenjoyable PvP is. You must be really bored.

    I mean pvp isn’t exactly enjoyable right now lmao, play an actual game for a bit and come back.

    You’ll realize just how bad it is

    I wouldn't call pvp enjoyable either. Still good farm though.

  • Matiu.5703Matiu.5703 Member ✭✭
    edited March 6, 2018

    But the question is simple: if you want to play random and don't face 5 premades, go playing in the kitten unranked like it was years ago.
    Keep a different ladder and rewards for unranked too if this is the problem, but I don't get why we should all play alone because you don't want to face premades.
    No one is enjoying this max duo system, it's full of people trying to bypass it, are you blind or what?
    The fact that is always less people playing pvp tells you anything? Why on the ladder there is only people with under a certain amount of matches? Because IT IS NOT FUNNY AND IT IS NOT WORKING.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2018

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    That's exactly what I mean though. They have denied their veteran player base, who are the ones that keep this game alive, the choice to play with friends and protect themselves from match manipulation. They did this in favor of allowing a placebo effect for ignorant players who aren't aware of win trading, who are sitting around and wondering why most of their matches result in 500 to 80 or some otherwise incredible blow out, in a game that is supposed to have a system to create balanced matches, lol. Then these players come into the forum and post about "how bad the match making algorithm is" and support the idea of NOT re-enabling 5 man ques because they "think" that 5 man teams would make it even worse. If these players recognized how often they were in matches where someone was throwing the game on them, rendering them in a situation that was 4v5 in-game and solo vs. win trade team on discord, they would be all about supporting 5 man premades re-enabled to block that kitten from happening in their teams.

    Hey these kids sign in and form silver rated AT teams for dat 5g all day long. I don't see why they can't or wouldn't do it for ranked seasons and wing grinding. I remember hearing a lot of people say: "There weren't enough teams in the guild league ladder so that's why they did solo/duo only". That couldn't be further from the truth. I specifically remember the last season with guild league ladder because my team had hit rank #15 at one point. There were hundreds and hundreds of guild teams on that leaderboard. And considering the activity of ATs around the clock, I don't see why re-enabling 5 man in ranked hasn't happened yet.

    I love everything you've said. Honestly. If I could give you an infinite amount of thumbs ups, I would.

    Everything you'd said is spot on. You've hit every problem right on the head. So much so in fact, that I actually have nothing else to add.

    Great job. :)

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. Please explain to me how being able to form a 5 man team, with only players that I trust, is going to enhance the chances of a win trader ALT landing on my team and throwing my game.
    2. The poll vote for doing solo/duo only was taken BEFORE people realized that solo/duo only was going to open up a Pandora's box of game throwing. I'd like to see another public poll. I'd like to see what people say now.

    1. It is obviously not going to enhance that. But it will enhance wintraders ever getting caught and the execution of wintrading. Queue with 5 alts and 5 mains at the same time, throw the game, profit. Noone will report you, and matchmaking will be incredibly easy as there will be only a handful of 5 men teams.
    2. There you go (consider that duoq is favored by more people than 5 man):
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28891/should-duoq-return-for-1600
    Obviously it's not as big as forced vote by Anet, but it's fairly representative.

    EDIT: I'd even go further, I'm assuming most people who support duo & 5 man are on the forums (because they care about pvp), while soloq-ers, well not that much. There was some statistic posted by Ben (maybe?) about the ratio soloq-duoq players and it was around 95%-5% IIRC.

    Let them?
    If it's not hurting people that don't want to wintrade, where's that an issue?
    Or do you think it's more fair now that 3-4 guys get to experience their team mates throwing matches on purpose, ending up with the same result for the wintraders but a more negative experience for those that don't want to wintrade.

    There's simply no justification for removing ranked teams. It broke sPvP completely, and AT's are too far from being in any position to fix it.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2018

    @Matiu.5703 said:
    The fact that is always less people playing pvp tells you anything?

    It doesn't really tell you very much unless you are under the mistaken belief that correlation equals causation.

    The game is six years old, in a dying game genre where MMORPGs that actually grow their playerbases over long periods have been extraordinarily rare (WoW, EVE, etc), at this point it would not matter what system they had there would still be less people playing (just like WvW and even PvE), I mean the reality is much of the PvP playerbase left the game way before HoT, before seasons were even a thing and were leaving when the game still had ranked "team" queue.

  • Matiu.5703Matiu.5703 Member ✭✭

    @zinkz.7045 said:

    @Matiu.5703 said:
    The fact that is always less people playing pvp tells you anything?

    It doesn't really tell you very much unless you are under the mistaken belief that correlation equals causation.

    The game is six years old, in a dying game genre where MMORPGs that actually grow their playerbases over long periods have been extraordinarily rare (WoW, EVE, etc), at this point it would not matter what system they had there would still be less people playing (just like WvW and even PvE), I mean the reality is much of the PvP playerbase left the game way before HoT, before seasons were even a thing and were leaving when the game still had ranked "team" queue.

    Maybe is normal, but is much more true in pvp than in the others areas.
    So do you think that everything is fine, let's drink tea while the titanic is going down or try to make the system better to let more people enjoy pvp and the whole game?
    It is not the only index to say that pvp is trash now, but the fact that just today started like 6 threads about this and person after person manifesting a raising discontent?

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2018

    You can't have been playing that long to be suggesting this.

    Yes pvp is a 5 man game but with how people play this game, rarely anybody is committed to playing only 5 mans in ranked.

    You can duo q to 1600, which is top 250.

    There are many places to play with 5 other people. Ranked in its current format shows who has the best contribution towards a team and if you go even further, what classes are generally the best. 5 man ranked throws that out the window.

    Even in WoW 5 man arenas are the least played for a reason.

    The system got to this point for a reason.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    You can't have been playing that long to be suggesting this.

    Yes pvp is a 5 man game but with how people play this game, rarely anybody is committed to playing only 5 mans in ranked.

    You can duo q to 1600, which is top 250.

    There are many places to play with 5 other people. Ranked in its current format shows who has the best contribution towards a team and if you go even further, what classes are generally the best. 5 man ranked throws that out the window.

    Even in WoW 5 man arenas are the least played for a reason.

    I guess you can't have been playing for that long to say that.
    Before that change there was a pretty competitive Guild team ranked competition (which actually was used for access to the invitationals for the world championships).
    The competitive scene for this game lasted a season or 2 after they got rid of ranked teams, that's how important they were.

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    You can't have been playing that long to be suggesting this.

    Yes pvp is a 5 man game but with how people play this game, rarely anybody is committed to playing only 5 mans in ranked.

    You can duo q to 1600, which is top 250.

    There are many places to play with 5 other people. Ranked in its current format shows who has the best contribution towards a team and if you go even further, what classes are generally the best. 5 man ranked throws that out the window.

    Even in WoW 5 man arenas are the least played for a reason.

    I guess you can't have been playing for that long to say that.
    Before that change there was a pretty competitive Guild team ranked competition (which actually was used for access to the invitationals for the world championships).
    The competitive scene for this game lasted a season or 2 after they got rid of ranked teams, that's how important they were.

    The game is still competitive. The best players always solo q. Even in season 1. I was legend in all the earliest seasons. I've played against and beat most everyone you see ever play "competitive".

    The only difference is now you can't have a team of somewhat decent people steamroll another team that is better due to having better map coordination due to comms or creating a "perfect" team comp.

  • Matiu.5703Matiu.5703 Member ✭✭
    edited March 6, 2018

    It's hard to understand that there could be a ranked solo q and a ranked team q?

    So no solo player would fight against the horrible "organized 5 premades", just keep to find noobs there only for the rewards, hysterics, flamers, bots, and whoever likes this system.

    The game is not competitive because in the top tiers is full of people with very few games in more than 1 month and a half. If it was competitive, people would enjoy it, instead of running away from it once in good position because it's clearly not the real solo skill that makes you go up the ladder. (leaving out the treading wins system and hidden premades, that should make you open your eyes on the "competition")

  • ParanoidKami.2867ParanoidKami.2867 Member ✭✭✭

    What's the point of adding the team option? Devs already stated the number of teams was so low matchmaking would take forever. People in soloq don't want to go against a premade so you're left fighting no one. The low amount of teams can do tournaments. You can do unranked or custom arena outside of tournaments.

  • To be honest at Silver or lower I would not care about 5 man premades. But even in Gold this could prove itself as problematic. And in Plat or higher this will be problematic. As mentioned before, it would make wintrading even easier and let very good players just rush through the leaderboard. I like the Duo/Solo system that is in place right now even though I sometimes really want to play with my friends whom are lower than 1600 SR without having to tank myself to Plat 1.

    PvP/WvW player, always wandering between servers, Solo for the most part but I fight for the team
    Ranger main for 5 years, I also play Scourge/Firebrand/Spellbreaker fairly well

  • Matiu.5703Matiu.5703 Member ✭✭
    edited March 6, 2018

    @ParanoidKami.2867 said:
    What's the point of adding the team option? Devs already stated the number of teams was so low matchmaking would take forever. People in soloq don't want to go against a premade so you're left fighting no one. The low amount of teams can do tournaments. You can do unranked or custom arena outside of tournaments.

    How can be hight if there is no possibility to do it? The tournaments are only in certain specific time windows and are far more exclusive than a simple ranking team pvp. It would call much more people if it would be possible, just see at the people answering here.

    @panekomo.7146 said:
    To be honest at Silver or lower I would not care about 5 man premades. But even in Gold this could prove itself as problematic. And in Plat or higher this will be problematic. As mentioned before, it would make wintrading even easier and let very good players just rush through the leaderboard. I like the Duo/Solo system that is in place right now even though I sometimes really want to play with my friends whom are lower than 1600 SR without having to tank myself to Plat 1.

    That's why there should be the option to do both, separately. Take off ranked and unranked, do solo/duo q and 4/5q, with both rewards maybe slightly different from each other.

  • ParanoidKami.2867ParanoidKami.2867 Member ✭✭✭

    @Matiu.5703 said:

    @ParanoidKami.2867 said:
    What's the point of adding the team option? Devs already stated the number of teams was so low matchmaking would take forever. People in soloq don't want to go against a premade so you're left fighting no one. The low amount of teams can do tournaments. You can do unranked or custom arena outside of tournaments.

    How can be hight if there is no possibility to do it? The tournaments are only in certain specific time windows and are far more exclusive than a simple ranking team pvp. It would call much more people if it would be possible, just see at the people answering here.

    Because they already had it before they took it away B) It was voted on by the community btw and the majority wanted it gone.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    You can't have been playing that long to be suggesting this.

    Yes pvp is a 5 man game but with how people play this game, rarely anybody is committed to playing only 5 mans in ranked.

    You can duo q to 1600, which is top 250.

    There are many places to play with 5 other people. Ranked in its current format shows who has the best contribution towards a team and if you go even further, what classes are generally the best. 5 man ranked throws that out the window.

    Even in WoW 5 man arenas are the least played for a reason.

    I guess you can't have been playing for that long to say that.
    Before that change there was a pretty competitive Guild team ranked competition (which actually was used for access to the invitationals for the world championships).
    The competitive scene for this game lasted a season or 2 after they got rid of ranked teams, that's how important they were.

    The game is still competitive. The best players always solo q. Even in season 1. I was legend in all the earliest seasons. I've played against and beat most everyone you see ever play "competitive".

    The only difference is now you can't have a team of somewhat decent people steamroll another team that is better due to having better map coordination due to comms or creating a "perfect" team comp.

    1) That's BS... The most competitive plaeyrs will always gather in teams. Just because you think you're a competitive player, doesn't make it so. That's why there used to be pro teams, and that's why now the measure for "meta" is AT teams. Because the real competition is with team play. You never see a "Random queue" tournament. Because that's not competitive.

    2) GW2 was booted from ESL one season after they removed Ranked teams. Coincidence?

    3) That never happened, because MMR and Matchmaking was always a thing, any discrepancy was perceived. Just like currently people complain about teams with duos and singles but this time devs said enough and published statistics about how the win rate is pretty much 50% for duos and singles.

  • I disagree with ranked becoming 5q but I do think this current "solo over 1600" system needs to change. Ever since seasons became solo ranked has been absolutely atrocious, and the worst part is you can't even share the terrible experience with a friend to maybe alleviate the aids you get from solo qing and having to deal with 4 complete randoms. Anet seriously needs to bring atleast duo back because it was miles better than solo. Just the fact that you can coordinate and be in comms with someone else and figure out tactics to carry a ranked game depending on the comp/classes the 3 randoms you got is a skill in itself. I'm sure Anet can see a decline in people qing ranked because no one wants to play a game mode thats competitive and quite frustrating at times BY THEMSELVES, thats just a terrible idea.

    My reasoning for not wanting 5q is simple: The population is too low for 5q and matchmaking would have to create absolute blowout games all the time. (if i q'd 5 ranked with my friends we would literally go an entire season with 0 losses). ATs are currently 5man and we have to go through 500-0ing 3-4 teams before we even get to finals where people manage to score 50-100 points, it just won't be fair for the majority of the players to have to deal with that in ranked aswell. The consistency of blowout games because of full premades will make people rage quit and/or start q dodging which will then also result in longer qs. To me duo is that perfect balance of coordination and balanced games(from a matchmakers point of view). 5 ranked should be strictly ATs.

  • Matiu.5703Matiu.5703 Member ✭✭
    edited March 7, 2018

    @ParanoidKami.2867 said:

    @Matiu.5703 said:

    @ParanoidKami.2867 said:
    What's the point of adding the team option? Devs already stated the number of teams was so low matchmaking would take forever. People in soloq don't want to go against a premade so you're left fighting no one. The low amount of teams can do tournaments. You can do unranked or custom arena outside of tournaments.

    How can be hight if there is no possibility to do it? The tournaments are only in certain specific time windows and are far more exclusive than a simple ranking team pvp. It would call much more people if it would be possible, just see at the people answering here.

    Because they already had it before they took it away B) It was voted on by the community btw and the majority wanted it gone.

    In fact now I see that everyone is happy of the pvp and things are going smooth and fine. If it is ok for you and Anet, good for you. You will end playing pvp in 30 :)

    If you don't want to face premades, you should be able to do it. If you want to play premade vs other premade, you should be able to do it.

    The mostly of the matches blowout even in soloq, because playing with kitten pugs someone decides to go afk after 1 minute. There is no good competition, try to be honest.

    How to get people back to play pvp and team pvp is Anet problem but denying that there is a problem with the pvp and "we don't need team pvp because people doesn't want it, it is all fine" it just seems stupid.

  • rank eleven monk.9502rank eleven monk.9502 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2018

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    The simple concept of an online, team based game... REMOVING the ability to play with friends is ridiculous. If you can't see this, then there is no point in arguing with you because your logic and reasoning is flawed at a fundamental level.

    That's why AT's were brought in (and are being updated in the coming weeks to make it more accessible). If you want challenge, you can play against equal premade teams, fair and square. If you want casual fun, then you can play unranked arena. A 5 man premade against 5 random people is not fun for either side, that's why it was removed.
    In GW1 we had team arena and random arena for the exact same purposes and it worked perfectly fine (not to mention unranked arena was way more popular obviously, as most people are not playing with friends as I said before). Readding the premade component to a game mode that is used by overwhelmingly solo players just ruins the game mode for them. And that's why it was voted to go. You can argue about my logic but facts speak for themselves opposed to your and a very small minority's opinion.

    Another way to think about it is: Anet rewards good players by forcing them to play solo. Does that make any sense? It shouldn't, and if it does... LUL

    You are right on this one, duoq should be removed altogether. Currently it really makes no sense.

    @Matiu.5703 said:
    But the question is simple: if you want to play random and don't face 5 premades, go playing in the kitten unranked like it was years ago.

    I'm going to put in another way: if you want to play with your friends, go play unranked or AT like it is right now. Isn't that hard, is it? :)

    Ranked is the only game mode where you can play on a competitive level all by yourself.

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    I wouldn't call pvp enjoyable either. Still good farm though.

    For you, it's not. For many others, it is.

    @tartarus.1082 said:
    I mean pvp isn’t exactly enjoyable right now lmao, play an actual game for a bit and come back.
    You’ll realize just how bad it is

    Why are you trying to convince people that pvp is bad and unenjoyable? I mean, what's in it for you? Many people enjoy it, just accept that fact. It's down to taste.

    Personally I've played multiple MMO-s (pvp) and I find GW2 the most enjoyable (after GW1). So been there done that thanks.

  • Matiu.5703Matiu.5703 Member ✭✭

    If I go unranked with premade I ruin the fun people who are trying to know their spec, other than ruining mine, because it would end 500 to 0. To not mention the fact that there is a MUCH SMALLER reward and no leaderboard, so no laddering and random MM.

    AT's are not very accessible, not everyone has 4 friends online at the exact time requested. You know, it's a game and we have a life, we should be able to play and have fun when we want and when we can. And if you lose a game you have to wait what? 6 hours to play again? All online and ready at the perfect time, obviously.

    Is it fair and normal for you?

  • I'm back from my hiatus to break this down real simple.

    ranked = competitive = teamq
    unranked = casual = soloq

    It should not be the other way round.

    And yes AT's are great, but impractical 80% of the time for any group who actually have lives outside the game.

  • rank eleven monk.9502rank eleven monk.9502 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2018

    @Ioras Dagnir.3927 said:
    I'm back from my hiatus to break this down real simple.

    ranked = competitive = teamq

    Due to the low population this won't work but people fail to understand this. That's why it was removed. The only thing you could bring back is 500-0 blowouts and a severaly imbalanced game mode with farmable rewards.

    unranked = casual = soloq

    It should not be the other way round.

    That's true, but not the state GW2 is in currently. I have a feeling it was never intended to be a top level competitive game (in general, it's very casual friendly) that's why even in PvP casual and / or soloq play is rewarded.

    And yes AT's are great, but impractical 80% of the time for any group who actually have lives outside the game.

    Agree, hopefully we will see some improvements. Ben quote from January:

    The current shifting times are our attempt to make sure that everyone gets to participate at least a few times per week no matter what their play time. That being said, we do recognize they can be a little inconvenient. We're talking about some other ideas to help alleviate this, but it's still early.

    @Matiu.5703 said:
    If I go unranked with premade I ruin the fun people who are trying to know their spec, other than ruining mine, because it would end 500 to 0.

    It would be exactly the same blowouts in ranked with no fun for either side. Apart from farming rewards for premades.

    To not mention the fact that there is a MUCH SMALLER reward and no leaderboard, so no laddering and random MM.

    If you are playing competitive you shouldn't play for the rewards :P
    Matchmaking is not random in unranked queue.

    AT's are not very accessible, not everyone has 4 friends online at the exact time requested. You know, it's a game and we have a life, we should be able to play and have fun when we want and when we can. And if you lose a game you have to wait what? 6 hours to play again? All online and ready at the perfect time, obviously.
    Is it fair and normal for you?

    I don't think it's impossible to have 4 friends online at a given time.. The evening ones are quite friendly anyway. You can have fun in unranked, blowouts are not fun in unranked in any way. For evertyhing else we can hope that the improvements with the next update will make AT more friendly (e.g. swiss style) and accessible for more people

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    You can't have been playing that long to be suggesting this.

    Yes pvp is a 5 man game but with how people play this game, rarely anybody is committed to playing only 5 mans in ranked.

    You can duo q to 1600, which is top 250.

    There are many places to play with 5 other people. Ranked in its current format shows who has the best contribution towards a team and if you go even further, what classes are generally the best. 5 man ranked throws that out the window.

    Even in WoW 5 man arenas are the least played for a reason.

    I guess you can't have been playing for that long to say that.
    Before that change there was a pretty competitive Guild team ranked competition (which actually was used for access to the invitationals for the world championships).
    The competitive scene for this game lasted a season or 2 after they got rid of ranked teams, that's how important they were.> @Matiu.5703 said:

    It's hard to understand that there could be a ranked solo q and a ranked team q?

    So no solo player would fight against the horrible "organized 5 premades", just keep to find noobs there only for the rewards, hysterics, flamers, bots, and whoever likes this system.

    The game is not competitive because in the top tiers is full of people with very few games in more than 1 month and a half. If it was competitive, people would enjoy it, instead of running away from it once in good position because it's clearly not the real solo skill that makes you go up the ladder. (leaving out the treading wins system and hidden premades, that should make you open your eyes on the "competition")

    Problem is queue times, there aren't enough players left for them to have two separate queues. But if they have the matchmaking properly sorted they can do a 5 man premade vs 5 randoms and still have a balanced match. LoL does it with Ranked Flex.

  • rank eleven monk.9502rank eleven monk.9502 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2018

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    I guess you can't have been playing for that long to say that.
    Before that change there was a pretty competitive Guild team ranked competition (which actually was used for access to the invitationals for the world championships).
    The competitive scene for this game lasted a season or 2 after they got rid of ranked teams, that's how important they were.

    That's very untrue, actually the competitive part of the game died way before they removed team ranked queue.. It was more like a final nail in the coffin.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    I guess you can't have been playing for that long to say that.
    Before that change there was a pretty competitive Guild team ranked competition (which actually was used for access to the invitationals for the world championships).
    The competitive scene for this game lasted a season or 2 after they got rid of ranked teams, that's how important they were.

    That's very untrue, actually the competitive part of the game died way before they remove team ranked queue..

    Dude, ESL ended the season after they removed ranked team queues. Not before.

  • Matiu.5703Matiu.5703 Member ✭✭
    edited March 7, 2018

    @rank eleven monk.9502

    It is hard for some people and the tournaments limit the games you can play. If I can play only 2h a day (no AT window) and I want to do 10 games, it is not possible now (with my friends), even if the time is right.

    Competitive = no rewards? So take off rewards from ranked and AT's, no?
    And I never said competitive, I just want to play with my friends with decent matchups, not vs unranked noobs people...

  • rank eleven monk.9502rank eleven monk.9502 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2018

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    I guess you can't have been playing for that long to say that.
    Before that change there was a pretty competitive Guild team ranked competition (which actually was used for access to the invitationals for the world championships).
    The competitive scene for this game lasted a season or 2 after they got rid of ranked teams, that's how important they were.

    That's very untrue, actually the competitive part of the game died way before they remove team ranked queue..

    Dude, ESL ended the season after they removed ranked team queues. Not before.

    I might be wrong here, but wasnt the last WC in September 2016? TeamQ was removed in November. And they had a very low number of participants even for the qualifiers before any changes. I'm not an expert though so englighten me if I'm wrong.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    I guess you can't have been playing for that long to say that.
    Before that change there was a pretty competitive Guild team ranked competition (which actually was used for access to the invitationals for the world championships).
    The competitive scene for this game lasted a season or 2 after they got rid of ranked teams, that's how important they were.

    That's very untrue, actually the competitive part of the game died way before they remove team ranked queue..

    Dude, ESL ended the season after they removed ranked team queues. Not before.

    I might be wrong here, but wasnt the last WC in September 2016? TeamQ was removed in November. And they had a very low number of participants even for the qualifiers before any changes. I'm not an expert though so englighten me if I'm wrong.

    GW2 was removed from ESL in April 2017, and at the time they still had tournaments going (which were allowed to finish).
    https://play.eslgaming.com/guildwars2/global/news/270547/

  • rank eleven monk.9502rank eleven monk.9502 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2018

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    I guess you can't have been playing for that long to say that.
    Before that change there was a pretty competitive Guild team ranked competition (which actually was used for access to the invitationals for the world championships).
    The competitive scene for this game lasted a season or 2 after they got rid of ranked teams, that's how important they were.

    That's very untrue, actually the competitive part of the game died way before they remove team ranked queue..

    Dude, ESL ended the season after they removed ranked team queues. Not before.

    I might be wrong here, but wasnt the last WC in September 2016? TeamQ was removed in November. And they had a very low number of participants even for the qualifiers before any changes. I'm not an expert though so englighten me if I'm wrong.

    GW2 was removed from ESL in April 2017, and at the time they still had tournaments going (which were allowed to finish).
    https://play.eslgaming.com/guildwars2/global/news/270547/

    I know that, but those were 2v2 and 1v1 tournaments which are irrelevant in the 5 man premade perspective.

    Regardless, I think the competetive scene was dead way before that

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2018

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    I guess you can't have been playing for that long to say that.
    Before that change there was a pretty competitive Guild team ranked competition (which actually was used for access to the invitationals for the world championships).
    The competitive scene for this game lasted a season or 2 after they got rid of ranked teams, that's how important they were.

    That's very untrue, actually the competitive part of the game died way before they remove team ranked queue..

    Dude, ESL ended the season after they removed ranked team queues. Not before.

    I might be wrong here, but wasnt the last WC in September 2016? TeamQ was removed in November. And they had a very low number of participants even for the qualifiers before any changes. I'm not an expert though so englighten me if I'm wrong.

    GW2 was removed from ESL in April 2017, and at the time they still had tournaments going (which were allowed to finish).
    https://play.eslgaming.com/guildwars2/global/news/270547/

    I know that, but those were 2v2 and 1v1 tournaments which are irrelevant in the 5 man premade perspective.

    Regardless, I think the competetive scene was dead way before that

    Well, there was an upsurge due to guild team competitions, and the chance to get into the invitationals if your team was top of the leaderboard. But the content droughts took their toll in the overall game pop, so PvP was still struggling to get back to pre-HoT numbers (when the hype got people back in droves and the condi changes improved the build variability). Removing the few positive changes that had happened (like the option to team up with the last guys you played with if they were good) because people where whinning about team queues was a final nail in PvP's coffin, and (as a lot of people predicted) its no wonder that nowadays the pvp population is insufficient even to provide proper matchmaking, with teams being made up of wildly varying ranks.

    The problem the game faces would be that even if it had ranked queues back, would that be enough to motivate the return of enough players to get the population healthy enough for matchmaking to work. Because if they can't balance a team for duos above plat, i doubt it would work well with 5 men teams. And that's the big issue here. They made the wrong choices constantly for PvP after HoT, and now the game's population is so unhealthy that it might be impossible to ever fix it.

  • The developers won't understand if having 2 seperate Qs of Solo/Duo and a Full premade queues plus leaderboards will have more or less players etc. Giving this logic that the playerbase is less makes no sense for anything. PvP is a team game like Raids are and should be played as a team rather than solo players dueling giving a kitten about the their team. Unless Anet brings back teamQ, the PvP here is boring and makes no sense at all. Also the reward system is kitten and needs to be changed.

  • The only time I would agree with a 5 man pre-made team is if they are facing another 5 man pre-made team. Pitching a team of premades vs a team of 5 solo que players is the most unfair thing you could possibly do. I went in unranked with a team of pre made once and we won 9 games in a row. One game we won with 500 to 0. Do you really think the enemy team enjoyed getting ganked by double stealthed holosmiths and having 1 sec to respond before being downed? It was a lot fun for us sure but for the enemies it was a disaster. How would creating such an unfair environment for solo que players ever help the PvP community?

    Do you really think if you force all solo que players to leave and only play unranked leave anyone for you to play with? Just look at tournies where even though the rewards are so good almost nobody plays them. If you want the whole ranked ladder to consist of 6 pre made teams go ahead. This will be the death of an already declining game mode.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 8, 2018

    I want team queue back.

    I want players back in the game so match making can actually function properly.

    You can beat most premades anyway. Have beaten AT teams in unranked with pugs before aswell, so if people say "its unfair I was matched up against a premade thats why we lost" would have had another excuse if it wasn't a premade that beat him such as "thief is bad didn't decap" or "our Rev was naked".

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • rank eleven monk.9502rank eleven monk.9502 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    ATs are not equal, nor are they fair. If you've ever done an AT before, you'd realize this is the case in every single round (sometimes including the finals). Every single round ends in a blowout 500-0 until the finals, which can still end up 500-100 depending on who is playing.

    ATs are NOT division specific, hence, you'll have teams of bronze players going up against a team of legends. It's even less fair than a 5 man going against 2 duos and a solo in plat ranked.

    Any time anyone ever mentions ATs as being competitive, its easy to tell they have no concept of the word.

    Another way to think about it is: Anet rewards good players by forcing them to play solo. Does that make any sense? It shouldn't, and if it does... LUL

    You are right on this one, duoq should be removed altogether. Currently it really makes no sense.

    Ah, because:

    • A 5 man team based gamemode should only allow players to play solo without the option to create their own teams (/sarcasm)
    • Randomness and RNG should decide if you win or lose a match (/sarcasm)
    • People like playing alone (/sarcasm)
    • People enjoy the fact that they can only play with their friends once every 6 hours (/sarcasm)
    • People who aren't above the solo que only threshold should not have an opinion on whether solo que is better than the freedom to play with your friends and make your own teams (/serious)

    Without arguing further, removing 5 man queue was voted by the community. 80% to 20%. 95% of the pvpers play solo. You can try to argue with facts, but it makes no sense.

    Anet might bring back a separated 5 man queue, which will be incredibly dead as noone really played 5 man teams

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