Bring Back 5 Man Ranked Que - Needs To Happen At This Point - Solo/Duo Failed

So, we need 5 man que in ranked again. Mainly so we have the option of blocking win trading. Oh and for those who want to come in here and post "blah blah blah I don't want to fight 5 man organized teams", don't be so quaint. You're still going against premade teams but you can't see them because they are invisible win trading teams. Recognize that if 5 man que were re-enabled, we could at least have the option of preventing throw matches.

In other words, this solo/duo only stuff is an illusion and just allows vulnerability for legit players to get one unclean and dirty match after another. It needs to stop.

5 man queue would actually enhance wintrading, so your logic fails at the very first point there. 5 man queue is not the way to get rid of wintrading, punishing the traders is though.

And it has been voted before and discussed several times and the majority of players don't want 5 man, and not even 2 man queue. Get over it.

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

1. Please explain to me how being able to form a 5 man team, with only players that I trust, is going to enhance the chances of a win trader ALT landing on my team and throwing my game.
2. The poll vote for doing solo/duo only was taken BEFORE people realized that solo/duo only was going to open up a Pandora's box of game throwing. I'd like to see another public poll. I'd like to see what people say now.
3. It is obviously not going to enhance that. But it will enhance wintraders ever getting caught and the execution of wintrading. Queue with 5 alts and 5 mains at the same time, throw the game, profit. Noone will report you, and matchmaking will be incredibly easy as there will be only a handful of 5 men teams.
4. There you go (consider that duoq is favored by more people than 5 man):https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28891/should-duoq-return-for-1600Obviously it's not as big as forced vote by Anet, but it's fairly representative.

EDIT: I'd even go further, I'm assuming most people who support duo & 5 man are on the forums (because they care about pvp), while soloq-ers, well not that much. There was some statistic posted by Ben (maybe?) about the ratio soloq-duoq players and it was around 95%-5% IIRC.

We just had this. It ended up getting shot down by most players. Yes win trading is still an issue, yes it would be nice to actually play with friends in PvP outside of tournaments and it would make me play more. Yes you are correct in every way EXCEPT that the only reason win trading is so easy is because the population is so low. The only reason you are getting crap teammates is because the population is low. You aren't getting 5 man back because the current system works IF there is more population. So stop making these threads please and bring people into PvP. Seriously. I hate it, I get screwed by matchmakers, I hate not playing with friends, but all I can do is shut up and bring people in to increase pop. Brought 5 new people in this month alone, so please help everyone and bring people in. That's your best bet, and will actually help.

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:We just had this. It ended up getting shot down by most players. Yes win trading is still an issue, yes it would be nice to actually play with friends in PvP outside of tournaments and it would make me play more. Yes you are correct in every way EXCEPT that the only reason win trading is so easy is because the population is so low. The only reason you are getting crap teammates is because the population is low. You aren't getting 5 man back because the current system works IF there is more population. So stop making these threads please and bring people into PvP. Seriously. I hate it, I get screwed by matchmakers, I hate not playing with friends, but all I can do is shut up and bring people in to increase pop. Brought 5 new people in this month alone, so please help everyone and bring people in. That's your best bet, and will actually help.

speaking as someone who has (along w all of my friends) quit gw2 (only here to skim balance patch & froum for a laugh)

i honestly have to ask- why on earth you would try & bring people into a game that you can’t actually play w them? why would i suggest to my friend that we should spend the afternoon separately solo queuing vs wintraders & bots, when instead we could play 2v2s together in For Honour? one experience is solitary & frustrating, & the other is social & a lot of fun. surely we can agree that you & your pal facing foes together, while chatting on discord is lot more fun than facing separate foes alone & talking about your separate experiences? i mean, i feel like the ability to play with your friends is one of the reasons people usually play multiplayer games with their friends, instead of opting to play to separate single player games concurrently. wild thought i know....

sure, you can say ATs or unranked- but unranked is a messy uncompetitive experience, & ATs hardly happen & are full of bots & exploiters. so those are pretty terrible pvp experiences. would not recommend at all.

like, here’s my gw2 pvp breakdown

• can’t play w friends
• bad balance
• limited gamemodes
• lots of bots, hackers & exploiters
• poor matchmaking due to low pop
• combat is spammy due to powercreep

like, honestly? what’s good about gw2 pvp? sure the combat is kinda fun, & the graphics are pretty good- but dang a lot of other games do that- it’s a low bar.

any game that allows me to play w my friends on discord that has somewhat fun combat is actually a superior group gaming experience.

it seems cruel to get people to buy gw2 for a social pvp experience.

@choovanski.5462 said:

speaking as someone who has (along w all of my friends) quit gw2 (only here to skim balance patch & froum for a laugh)

i honestly have to ask- why on earth you would try & bring people into a game that you can’t actually play w them? why would i suggest to my friend that we should spend the afternoon separately solo queuing vs wintraders & bots, when instead we could play 2v2s together in For Honour? one experience is solitary & frustrating, & the other is social & a lot of fun. surely we can agree that you & your pal facing foes together, while chatting on discord is lot more fun than facing separate foes alone & talking about your separate experiences? i mean, i feel like the ability to play with your friends is one of the reasons people usually play multiplayer games with their friends, instead of opting to play to separate single player games concurrently. wild thought i know....

sure, you can say ATs or unranked- but unranked is a messy uncompetitive experience, & ATs hardly happen & are full of bots & exploiters. so those are pretty terrible pvp experiences. would not recommend at all.

like, here’s my gw2 pvp breakdown

• can’t play w friends
• bad balance
• limited gamemodes
• lots of bots, hackers & exploiters
• poor matchmaking due to low pop
• combat is spammy due to powercreep

like, honestly? what’s good about gw2 pvp? sure the combat is kinda fun, & the graphics are pretty good- but dang a lot of other games do that- it’s a low bar.

any game that allows me to play w my friends on discord that has somewhat fun combat is actually a superior group gaming experience.

it seems cruel to get people to buy gw2 for a social pvp experience.So you are basically here trying to convince everybody about how unenjoyable PvP is. You must be really bored.

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@choovanski.5462 said:

speaking as someone who has (along w all of my friends) quit gw2 (only here to skim balance patch & froum for a laugh)

i honestly have to ask- why on earth you would try & bring people into a game that you can’t actually play w them? why would i suggest to my friend that we should spend the afternoon separately solo queuing vs wintraders & bots, when instead we could play 2v2s together in For Honour? one experience is solitary & frustrating, & the other is social & a lot of fun. surely we can agree that you & your pal facing foes together, while chatting on discord is lot more fun than facing separate foes alone & talking about your separate experiences? i mean, i feel like the ability to play with your friends is one of the reasons people usually play multiplayer games with their friends, instead of opting to play to separate single player games concurrently. wild thought i know....

sure, you can say ATs or unranked- but unranked is a messy uncompetitive experience, & ATs hardly happen & are full of bots & exploiters. so those are pretty terrible pvp experiences. would not recommend at all.

like, here’s my gw2 pvp breakdown

• can’t play w friends
• bad balance
• limited gamemodes
• lots of bots, hackers & exploiters
• poor matchmaking due to low pop
• combat is spammy due to powercreep

like, honestly? what’s good about gw2 pvp? sure the combat is kinda fun, & the graphics are pretty good- but dang a lot of other games do that- it’s a low bar.

any game that allows me to play w my friends on discord that has somewhat fun combat is actually a superior group gaming experience.

it seems cruel to get people to buy gw2 for a social pvp experience.So you are basically here trying to convince everybody about how unenjoyable PvP is. You must be really bored.

I'm at the laundromat washing sheets dude ':-D

it's not exactly riveting

I was just wondering why someone would get people to play a game that they play, but that they actually wouldn't be able to play together. I'm honestly confused to the reason why anyone would do that

like, why not just play a game where you can be on the same team lol

Solo Q indeed opened pandoras box of gamethrowing. Because if one quits all are affected..... Teams are less likely to quit or at least the usually mutally agree to forfit which is then OK for all.... But as we all know mixing solo with premade will also degrade most solos to punching bags .... Which brigns us to the conclusion we need diffrent game modes... 5 Man only full team conquest and some due or trio modes ....

@choovanski.5462 said:

I'm at the laundromat washing sheets dude ':-D

it's not exactly riveting

I was just wondering why someone would get people to play a game that they play, but that they actually wouldn't be able to play together. I'm honestly confused to the reason why anyone would do that

like, why not just play a game where you can be on the same team lolWell, PvPers want more people to play because increased participation makes matchmaking quality better and removes the possibility of wintrading. It is pretty simple.

And most people have played and play soloq anyways and not with friends.

Sadly they won't ever bring it for rank purposes, however the update they are going to do for tournments SHOULD be great for team players that has a 5 man premade as it is. This would ALLOW us to test builds with actual solid teams and not give us one sided matches where we won't know if a build is legit or not due to the massive one sided battles.

The whole idea of tournaments being refreshed after they are completed is going to be great and I cant wait for the swizz style to be added as well. I would just let this season finish and die off because after this I'll no longer focus on playing rank seriously anymore it isn't worth the effort or frustration. Rating doesn't mean jack shit anymore , and I been able to show that by having a "gold rated" team play against some top tier Plat players ( can't always beat them) who has lost to us or been really close to losing to us(some times we aren't close when it's naru team lol).

I just dont think the rank system makes much sense at all how it should be "placing people" overall.

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@choovanski.5462 said:

speaking as someone who has (along w all of my friends) quit gw2 (only here to skim balance patch & froum for a laugh)

i honestly have to ask- why on earth you would try & bring people into a game that you can’t actually play w them? why would i suggest to my friend that we should spend the afternoon separately solo queuing vs wintraders & bots, when instead we could play 2v2s together in For Honour? one experience is solitary & frustrating, & the other is social & a lot of fun. surely we can agree that you & your pal facing foes together, while chatting on discord is lot more fun than facing separate foes alone & talking about your separate experiences? i mean, i feel like the ability to play with your friends is one of the reasons people usually play multiplayer games with their friends, instead of opting to play to separate single player games concurrently. wild thought i know....

sure, you can say ATs or unranked- but unranked is a messy uncompetitive experience, & ATs hardly happen & are full of bots & exploiters. so those are pretty terrible pvp experiences. would not recommend at all.

like, here’s my gw2 pvp breakdown

• can’t play w friends
• bad balance
• limited gamemodes
• lots of bots, hackers & exploiters
• poor matchmaking due to low pop
• combat is spammy due to powercreep

like, honestly? what’s good about gw2 pvp? sure the combat is kinda fun, & the graphics are pretty good- but dang a lot of other games do that- it’s a low bar.

any game that allows me to play w my friends on discord that has somewhat fun combat is actually a superior group gaming experience.

it seems cruel to get people to buy gw2 for a social pvp experience.So you are basically here trying to convince everybody about how unenjoyable PvP is. You must be really bored.

I mean pvp isn’t exactly enjoyable right now lmao, play an actual game for a bit and come back.

You’ll realize just how bad it is

@tartarus.1082 said:

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@choovanski.5462 said:

speaking as someone who has (along w all of my friends) quit gw2 (only here to skim balance patch & froum for a laugh)

i honestly have to ask- why on earth you would try & bring people into a game that you can’t actually play w them? why would i suggest to my friend that we should spend the afternoon separately solo queuing vs wintraders & bots, when instead we could play 2v2s together in For Honour? one experience is solitary & frustrating, & the other is social & a lot of fun. surely we can agree that you & your pal facing foes together, while chatting on discord is lot more fun than facing separate foes alone & talking about your separate experiences? i mean, i feel like the ability to play with your friends is one of the reasons people usually play multiplayer games with their friends, instead of opting to play to separate single player games concurrently. wild thought i know....

sure, you can say ATs or unranked- but unranked is a messy uncompetitive experience, & ATs hardly happen & are full of bots & exploiters. so those are pretty terrible pvp experiences. would not recommend at all.

like, here’s my gw2 pvp breakdown

• can’t play w friends
• bad balance
• limited gamemodes
• lots of bots, hackers & exploiters
• poor matchmaking due to low pop
• combat is spammy due to powercreep

like, honestly? what’s good about gw2 pvp? sure the combat is kinda fun, & the graphics are pretty good- but dang a lot of other games do that- it’s a low bar.

any game that allows me to play w my friends on discord that has somewhat fun combat is actually a superior group gaming experience.

it seems cruel to get people to buy gw2 for a social pvp experience.So you are basically here trying to convince everybody about how unenjoyable PvP is. You must be really bored.

I wouldn't call pvp enjoyable either. Still good farm though.

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@choovanski.5462 said:

I'm at the laundromat washing sheets dude ':-D

it's not exactly riveting

I was just wondering why someone would get people to play a game that they play, but that they actually wouldn't be able to play together. I'm honestly confused to the reason why anyone would do that

like, why not just play a game where you can be on the same team lolWell, PvPers want more people to play because increased participation makes matchmaking quality better and removes the possibility of wintrading. It is pretty simple.

The simple concept of an online, team based game... REMOVING the ability to play with friends is ridiculous. If you can't see this, then there is no point in arguing with you because your logic and reasoning is flawed at a fundamental level.

Another way to think about it is: Anet rewards good players by forcing them to play solo. Does that make any sense? It shouldn't, and if it does... LUL

Pvp can be enjoyable if done in the good condition, with friends. This is not.You have to play alone with people that is frustrated like the most of the players are nowadays, insulting and going afk after 1 minute, because this is not a competitive game anymore, it is a lottery where the single can't do anything but hope in good pugs.

I don't know who these people are that are coming in here and defending the solo/duo thing, it's pretty curious. There are no actual advantages for solo/duo only concerning bettering match making. It is seriously a placebo to appease the players who now "believe" that solo/duo only has allowed them to avoid facing 5 man premade teams, which simply is not true. Let's get serious here, the action taken to implement solo/duo only has only had negative impact, aside from slightly shorter que times:

• Can't play with friends.
• Opened up the Pandora's box of being forced to play with people throwing games on your team, even when you would rather play in a team.
• Playing in a game mode that requires a player to cheat to keep up with the large amount of other cheaters is not fun.
• Not playing with friends and being forced to frequently play with ALT throws in a massively match manipulated environment makes players lose interest and leave the game mode.

What it all boils down to is "who is getting punished?" someone has to be punished whether it is solo only, duo only or 5 man re-enabled. With solo/duo only, the players who can't see past the placebo believe that it is better because they aren't seeing 5 man premade teams at the end of their match, but what they don't realize is that they are still frequently going against 5 man teams that are win trading teams. People are in their games throwing matches and most of the people on the team they are against are actually in a discord together, functioning as a premade anyway, in conjunction with the player on their team who is throwing. The people being punished in solo/duo only are the veteran players and social players who WANT to be able to play with their friends and block throws in their competitive setting. The fact that they cannot do this legitimately, ironically enough encourages them to begin win trading in a discord together. Yes that's right, it is a huge encouragement and lure to begin win trading because it is at least a way to play with their friends and well.. everyone likes to win. If there were one single thing to point the finger of blame at, for what encourged so much cheating in Guild Wars 2 spvp, it was the decision to make solo/duo only. With 5 man premades enabled, you get the placebo kids complaining who want to play solo/duo only, but what they don't realize is that there is no way to actually play solo/duo only. It is also their own choice to deny themselves of a 5 man team. The decision to re-enable 5 man premades allows veteran/social players the actual choice to play with friends and deny cheaters a place to manipulate on their team. As of now with solo/duo only, the veteran/social player base doesn't EVEN have that choice. So you're looking at two reactions within different player base demographics: #1 Keep solo/duo only and allow a placebo effect to appease the ignorant, while completely denying veteran/social players the choice to play with friends and protect themselves from match manipulation. Or #2 Re-enable 5 man ques, giving veteran/social players the ability to play with friends and protect themselves from match manipulation, while also granting the ignorant an actual choice to protect themselves from match manipulation as well. Hey I don't see where you could go wrong with choice #2. Everyone gets to make their choice that way. Decision #1 is limiting and that is why so many players have left the game. If you can't see the obvious cause & effect of the last 3 seasons or so, I don't know how else to explain this in better words.

Yeah so, defend the solo/duo only placebo all you want but the fact of the matter is that it has done nothing positive for this community. Decisions like that are bandaid painted up fixes that in the long run, fail and drive players away from a game. Hey man, just saying, I'd rather have a rusty old pick up truck with a beast engine and 4-wheel drive than some shitty car on its last leg that recently had a cool paint job done to it. I think most people would agree with that. I just wish Anet did as well.

Oh and @"rank eleven monk.9502" that poll link you posted was about "do you want solo only or duo only" it had nothing to do with any debacle concerning re-enabling 5 man premades. A current poll as yet to be seen. Maybe I'll do one myself.

But the question is simple: if you want to play random and don't face 5 premades, go playing in the damn unranked like it was years ago.Keep a different ladder and rewards for unranked too if this is the problem, but I don't get why we should all play alone because you don't want to face premades.No one is enjoying this max duo system, it's full of people trying to bypass it, are you blind or what?The fact that is always less people playing pvp tells you anything? Why on the ladder there is only people with under a certain amount of matches? Because IT IS NOT FUNNY AND IT IS NOT WORKING.

That's exactly what I mean though. They have denied their veteran player base, who are the ones that keep this game alive, the choice to play with friends and protect themselves from match manipulation. They did this in favor of allowing a placebo effect for ignorant players who aren't aware of win trading, who are sitting around and wondering why most of their matches result in 500 to 80 or some otherwise incredible blow out, in a game that is supposed to have a system to create balanced matches, lol. Then these players come into the forum and post about "how bad the match making algorithm is" and support the idea of NOT re-enabling 5 man ques because they "think" that 5 man teams would make it even worse. If these players recognized how often they were in matches where someone was throwing the game on them, rendering them in a situation that was 4v5 in-game and solo vs. win trade team on discord, they would be all about supporting 5 man premades re-enabled to block that crap from happening in their teams.

Hey these kids sign in and form silver rated AT teams for dat 5g all day long. I don't see why they can't or wouldn't do it for ranked seasons and wing grinding. I remember hearing a lot of people say: "There weren't enough teams in the guild league ladder so that's why they did solo/duo only". That couldn't be further from the truth. I specifically remember the last season with guild league ladder because my team had hit rank #15 at one point. There were hundreds and hundreds of guild teams on that leaderboard. And considering the activity of ATs around the clock, I don't see why re-enabling 5 man in ranked hasn't happened yet.

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:That's exactly what I mean though. They have denied their veteran player base, who are the ones that keep this game alive, the choice to play with friends and protect themselves from match manipulation. They did this in favor of allowing a placebo effect for ignorant players who aren't aware of win trading, who are sitting around and wondering why most of their matches result in 500 to 80 or some otherwise incredible blow out, in a game that is supposed to have a system to create balanced matches, lol. Then these players come into the forum and post about "how bad the match making algorithm is" and support the idea of NOT re-enabling 5 man ques because they "think" that 5 man teams would make it even worse. If these players recognized how often they were in matches where someone was throwing the game on them, rendering them in a situation that was 4v5 in-game and solo vs. win trade team on discord, they would be all about supporting 5 man premades re-enabled to block that crap from happening in their teams.

Hey these kids sign in and form silver rated AT teams for dat 5g all day long. I don't see why they can't or wouldn't do it for ranked seasons and wing grinding. I remember hearing a lot of people say: "There weren't enough teams in the guild league ladder so that's why they did solo/duo only". That couldn't be further from the truth. I specifically remember the last season with guild league ladder because my team had hit rank #15 at one point. There were hundreds and hundreds of guild teams on that leaderboard. And considering the activity of ATs around the clock, I don't see why re-enabling 5 man in ranked hasn't happened yet.

I love everything you've said. Honestly. If I could give you an infinite amount of thumbs ups, I would.

Everything you'd said is spot on. You've hit every problem right on the head. So much so in fact, that I actually have nothing else to add.

Great job. :)

@rank eleven monk.9502 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

1. Please explain to me how being able to form a 5 man team, with only players that I trust, is going to enhance the chances of a win trader ALT landing on my team and throwing my game.
2. The poll vote for doing solo/duo only was taken BEFORE people realized that solo/duo only was going to open up a Pandora's box of game throwing. I'd like to see another public poll. I'd like to see what people say now.
3. It is obviously not going to enhance that. But it will enhance wintraders ever getting caught and the execution of wintrading. Queue with 5 alts and 5 mains at the same time, throw the game, profit. Noone will report you, and matchmaking will be incredibly easy as there will be only a handful of 5 men teams.
4. There you go (consider that duoq is favored by more people than 5 man):
   https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28891/should-duoq-return-for-1600
   Obviously it's not as big as forced vote by Anet, but it's fairly representative.

Let them?If it's not hurting people that don't want to wintrade, where's that an issue?Or do you think it's more fair now that 3-4 guys get to experience their team mates throwing matches on purpose, ending up with the same result for the wintraders but a more negative experience for those that don't want to wintrade.

There's simply no justification for removing ranked teams. It broke sPvP completely, and AT's are too far from being in any position to fix it.

@"Matiu.5703" said:The fact that is always less people playing pvp tells you anything?

It doesn't really tell you very much unless you are under the mistaken belief that correlation equals causation.

The game is six years old, in a dying game genre where MMORPGs that actually grow their playerbases over long periods have been extraordinarily rare (WoW, EVE, etc), at this point it would not matter what system they had there would still be less people playing (just like WvW and even PvE), I mean the reality is much of the PvP playerbase left the game way before HoT, before seasons were even a thing and were leaving when the game still had ranked "team" queue.

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"Matiu.5703" said:The fact that is always less people playing pvp tells you anything?

Maybe is normal, but is much more true in pvp than in the others areas.So do you think that everything is fine, let's drink tea while the titanic is going down or try to make the system better to let more people enjoy pvp and the whole game?It is not the only index to say that pvp is trash now, but the fact that just today started like 6 threads about this and person after person manifesting a raising discontent?

You can't have been playing that long to be suggesting this.

Yes pvp is a 5 man game but with how people play this game, rarely anybody is committed to playing only 5 mans in ranked.

You can duo q to 1600, which is top 250.

There are many places to play with 5 other people. Ranked in its current format shows who has the best contribution towards a team and if you go even further, what classes are generally the best. 5 man ranked throws that out the window.

Even in WoW 5 man arenas are the least played for a reason.

The system got to this point for a reason.

@JayAction.9056 said:You can't have been playing that long to be suggesting this.

Yes pvp is a 5 man game but with how people play this game, rarely anybody is committed to playing only 5 mans in ranked.

You can duo q to 1600, which is top 250.

There are many places to play with 5 other people. Ranked in its current format shows who has the best contribution towards a team and if you go even further, what classes are generally the best. 5 man ranked throws that out the window.

Even in WoW 5 man arenas are the least played for a reason.

I guess you can't have been playing for that long to say that.Before that change there was a pretty competitive Guild team ranked competition (which actually was used for access to the invitationals for the world championships).The competitive scene for this game lasted a season or 2 after they got rid of ranked teams, that's how important they were.

I play since 2012, mainly pvp. Why should you, or the fews of you, decide what we should play?All the others "many places to play with 5 other people" are simply differents from the pvp.I don't want to duo q to 1600, I want to enjoy pvp. I can reach far more than 1600 but if it frustrating for the system, what's the point? I want to play pvp with my friends without being restrained at the AT's times.And many, MANY OTHERS, want the same thing.