Deep sea dragon speculation

So, it probably doesn't amount to much, but a few things I've noticed in the new map -

1. One of the specimens in the chamber is a frog type dragon minion, and all other dragon minions are accounted for by the other 5 specimens. This one seems to me to hint to being a deep sea dragon minion and has somewhat of a fungal breath attack.
2. There is a lot of "eerie driftwood" littered around the map with green fungal mushrooms all over it similar to the frog's attack.
3. There are lots of cave areas with a similar aesthetic, so they could just be nothing but a reused asset throughout the map.

Seems the driftwood at least is a nod to something. It's not just old driftwood, or an elder wood node, it's specifically "eerie" driftwood with glowing fungus all over it and an additional node to gather on top of elder wood node trees. They also give keys occasionally which doesn't really mean anything.

It is interesting to think that the deep sea dragon could be in a giant underground lair under the ocean filled with glowing mushrooms and coral instead of some presumably fish-like or hydra-like creature just swimming around.

That "frog" is a risen hylek. 100% no relation to the deep sea dragon - none of the dragon minion specimen are. You have a branded, an icebrood, a destroyer, a risen, a mordrem (guard), and then Subject Beta - the successor of Subject Alpha which had five dragon energies imbued in it.

The driftwood is part of the Lasting Bonds achievements, and doesn't seem to be anything special; you get Luminescent Seaweed for the second Lasting Bonds achievement from it.

And caves with fungus in it is not exactly uncommon. We see similar throughout Heart of Thorns, and IIRC, some of the sylvari areas.

It'd be an interesting thought, but wouldn't fungus fall under Mordremoth's domain of plants and vegetation? Besides, we know that the DSD corrupts water into tentacled monstrocities, so fungus being part of that seems a weird combination.

yup how did u miss that hylek?

There might be a story going with invasive fungi- those mushrooms are the poisonous ones from HoT, and at least some of them have dead creatures sprawled out in the entry, which suggests that they might be new enough that the native fauna hasn't learned to avoid them yet. I'm with Konig, though, in that it's unlikely that they represent dragon corruption. More likely they're an invasive species introduced through Inquest carelessness, same as the prairie dogs. One could easily imagine that an interest in biological contagions might have played with mushrooms that produce a toxic haze before they got their hands on something deadlier.

There are two NPCs at the beach under the mastery point in Atholma talking about a seamonster coming out to the land. One of them said is just a story to scare the cubs. Don't know if that's a hint for something more but maybe it's a thing to investigate more...

I caught them, but don't they name it? I think they were talking about the karka bounty.

I didn't caught the name. It thought thay could talked about some event so it could be the bounty.

There's dialogue between olmakhan (and some Inquest) about every bounty, it seems. The sea monster one seems to be about the karka bounty I think.

Yes, I checked and they are talking about the bounty. But what is interesting, at least to me, is that it seems that the karkas are new to the island. We know about the karka for some years now, but that does not seems to be the case here.

@Underdark.3726 said:Yes, I checked and they are talking about the bounty. But what is interesting, at least to me, is that it seems that the karkas are new to the island. We know about the karka for some years now, but that does not seems to be the case here.

Much like the other affected races, they are prob still coming up from the depths and will prob continue to pop up in places given there is prob a significant sized population, All it indicates is that the DSD and minions are still causing issues for the indigenous life in the Ocean.

Anet remain keen to give virtually no clues about this Dragon beyond displacement. Whether that is deliberate to maintain mystery or that they havent committed to any ideas yet (prob both) , only Anet can answer. I have a feeling there wont be a subtle introduction to hunt when (if) the time comes though.

@"Underdark.3726" said:Yes, I checked and they are talking about the bounty. But what is interesting, at least to me, is that it seems that the karkas are new to the island. We know about the karka for some years now, but that does not seems to be the case here.

Surrounding Rata Primus is a very wide range of wildlife. It's implied that at least some of them are the Inquest's fault - prarie dogs are confirmed to have popped due to the Inquest, and we see both choya and karka in the smaller lab before it blows up (and we can unleash them both into the wild due to them not being infected). It seems likely that the karka, choya, and wind riders are all part of the "brought here by the Inquest, not on their own accord" given the little numbers they have, and lack of hive/nest/homes.

As much as I love speculation, there’s no aquatic species besides the Largos (as far as I know) that haven’t been either branded or risen.Since dragons can’t take other’s minions quaggans, hyleks, and other aquatics are simply not the DSD’s minions.

Given we’re dealing with the DEEP SEA Dragon, i’m much more inclined to believe the minions of the DSD can only be described in terms of sheer Horror and Torment.A true perversion of how life develops where the sun shines, the beings of the deep are grotesque, deadly, and have evolved beyond the concept of ‘survival of fittest’ straight into ‘only one, grotesque horror survives’.

I’d like them not to outright copy Cthulhian horror, but its a general direction its fit to go

@"Ayakaru.6583"

Technically, karka haven't been seen corrupted either.

However, I will stress that there's still no support for the claim that "dragons can't take other's minions". Subject Alpha, Kudu's Monster, and now Subject Beta should all prove that this is possible. Sylvari immunity was said - multiple times in HoT promotions as well as once in S2 - to be due to "connection to the Pale Tree" aka the Dream. In theory this means a sylvari (or any dragon minion) without such a connection to a third party could be susceptible. It's still theory either way, there is zero definite proof.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@"Ayakaru.6583"

Technically, karka haven't been seen corrupted either.

However, I will stress that there's still no support for the claim that "dragons can't take other's minions". Subject Alpha, Kudu's Monster, and now Subject Beta should all prove that this is possible. Sylvari immunity was said - multiple times in HoT promotions as well as once in S2 - to be due to "connection to the Pale Tree" aka the Dream. In theory this means a sylvari (or any dragon minion) without such a connection to a third party could be susceptible. It's still theory either way, there is zero definite proof.

True, I won’t claim its impossible, but I at least like to believe if it was possible, it would’ve happened in nature (outside an inquest testing flask).So i’m still on the fence of “its not possible” or “its difficult enough for the ED’s not to bother with it”

But good catch, I completely forgot the Karkas still existed

I will say that I love seeing all these leviathan skeletons in the desert areas. The big fish rib cages. Would be interesting if we got some boss at some point of one still in tact.

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@Ayakaru.6583

Technically, karka haven't been seen corrupted either.

However, I will stress that there's still no support for the claim that "dragons can't take other's minions". Subject Alpha, Kudu's Monster, and now Subject Beta should all prove that this

is

possible. Sylvari immunity was said - multiple times in HoT promotions as well as once in S2 - to be due to "connection to the Pale Tree" aka the Dream. In theory this means a sylvari (or any dragon minion) without such a connection to a third party could be susceptible. It's still theory either way, there is

zero

definite proof.

TBH, Subject Alpha's uncontrolled, rampaging nature while commanding all five sets of dragon minions produce a pretty solid reason alone.

But then there's the fact that - until Season 2, and so far only in Season 2 - no two different types of dragon minions ever come close to interacting, and even in Iron Marches, the mordrem and branded still don't interact.

Besides that, there's the clear fact that the Elder Dragons can mix their energies, so there's no reason why they wouldn't be able to do this on pre-existing minions, if they can do such on new minions.

I will exert a new fact: Kralkatorrik is known to have magic from Primordus and Jormag now, thanks to Balthazar. However, we only get hints of him having domains of death and mind added to his set (well, I would debate the mind bit that Taimi supposes due to the fact a hive mind was never unique to Mordremoth, but generalities of terms and Taimi's lack of knowing the words written in Edge of Destiny aside, that one lab in Rata Primus does hint that Kralkatorrik's mind powers have increased at the very least). Given this, it may be that while Kralkatorrik is able to use Primordus' and Jormag's magic, those two still have priority in command of it, and creating minions with fire or ice (and whatever their sub-domains may be) would be too risky for the same reason as corrupting pre-existing minions.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:I will say that I love seeing all these leviathan skeletons in the desert areas. The big fish rib cages. Would be interesting if we got some boss at some point of one still in tact.

There were originally to be two (at least). One in Mount Maelstrom and on in Kessex Hills. But there was some issue or another with animation of the models created that they decided to off one event entirely, and replaced the other with that Armor Fish model.

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@Ayakaru.6583

Technically, karka haven't been seen corrupted either.

However, I will stress that there's still no support for the claim that "dragons can't take other's minions". Subject Alpha, Kudu's Monster, and now Subject Beta should all prove that this

is

possible. Sylvari immunity was said - multiple times in HoT promotions as well as once in S2 - to be due to "connection to the Pale Tree" aka the Dream. In theory this means a sylvari (or any dragon minion) without such a connection to a third party could be susceptible. It's still theory either way, there is

zero

definite proof.

Honestly, anything that can happen in a lab can happen in "nature" (however accurate that term is when dealing with Elder Dragons). Some things are extremely unlikely to happen by random chance, of course, but the dragons are sapient beings in their own right and clearly know how to manipulate draconic energies.

My personal theory is that the dragons can corrupt another dragon's minion by using similar methods to the Inquest, but doing so doesn't reset the minion's loyalty. So the dragons don't do it because they'd just be giving power to another dragon with no benefit to themselves.

The Inquest don't have this concern because they're already having to override the minion's loyalty.

To be honest it was my biggest disappointment with this episode when I went inside Kuda's specimen chamber and she had a Subject Beta ready rather than an actual DSD minion. By now I am (unfortunately) coming to terms with Anet never even mentioning it at all and purifying/killing it off-screen. It's not like they would even have to revamp underwater combat since, after all, if you turn water into tentacle horrors there could be an argument for there being no water anymore (maybe the Dragon actually dried up large patches of sea and we have no idea). Either way, it's pretty sad they're doing nothing at all with DSD, since it's not some loose end they came up with as they went but rather one of the Elder Dragons that are the main points surrounding every other plot.

! EDIT: as a side note there is a chance either Joko or Kralkatorrik end up stirring the dragon. We have no idea what Joko wants to do with the Scarab Plague but Anet apparently made it a point that he turned around on his personality and is going for something big rather than simply consolidating/maintaining Elona as his own territory. This is somewhat also disappointing because Joko was a perfect reluctant villain/middle term bad guy to contrast to the eldritch horrors, but we get what we get.

@"maxwelgm.4315" said:

! EDIT: as a side note there is a chance either Joko or Kralkatorrik end up stirring the dragon. We have no idea what Joko wants to do with the Scarab Plague but Anet apparently made it a point that he turned around on his personality and is going for something big rather than simply consolidating/maintaining Elona as his own territory. This is somewhat also disappointing because Joko was a perfect reluctant villain/middle term bad guy to contrast to the eldritch horrors, but we get what we get.

Regarding this bit...

I was so sad seeing no minion of the Deep Sea Dragon in the Chamber. ANet really dont like the idea of that dragon it seems like, :(I still hope we'll be able to discover DSD or atleast one minion...

@Alga.6498 said:I was so sad seeing no minion of the Deep Sea Dragon in the Chamber. ANet really dont like the idea of that dragon it seems like, :(I still hope we'll be able to discover DSD or atleast one minion...

it's less they hate DSD and more they want him to be mysterious not realizing that we don't know anything about the dragons that could be different for DSD

@derd.6413 said:

@Alga.6498 said:I was so sad seeing no minion of the Deep Sea Dragon in the Chamber. ANet really dont like the idea of that dragon it seems like, :(I still hope we'll be able to discover DSD or atleast

one

minion...

Not only that, but apparently they cannot decide on a good name for the dragon either. IIRC it was Angel McCoy who said, upon leaving Anet, that they had drafted a handful of names but didn't like any of them and that's why the name is still unmentioned.

If they couldn't decide upon a good name, maybe they cannot decide on minions too?

Skritt are also incorruptible, IIRC.

@"Ardid.7203" said:Skritt are also incorruptible, IIRC.

No race is immune to dragon corruption. ArenaNet just simply never made models for many minor races that seldom get exposed to living-being-corrupting dragon minions - skritt being one of them. As are largos, tengu, dredge, centaurs, jotun, grawl, wurms, harpies, etc. etc. etc. despite occasional proximity.

The only race "said" to be immune are sylvari, but we know now that's only thanks to the Pale Tree and the Dream, and that Mordremoth's own connection to the Dream allows him to circumvent that protection.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Ardid.7203" said:Skritt are also incorruptible, IIRC.

Sylvari are actually immune because they are already "corrupted" in the sense they were breed from the start to be dragon minions of Modremorth.

Or rather they were as long as Modremorth drew breath.

We know that ol' Primo ate some of his "essence" when he died and can now create "leafy" Destroyers. If that means that Sylvari are no longer under the "protection" of Modremorth and can be taken over by the live Elder Dragons that are left.. who knows?