How to educate SoS roamers?

The title says it all. I’m looking for ideas as to how to educate arguably the best PPT server with the worst KDR across all 4 tiers to get better at the one aspect of the game mode they really fail at. Fighting other players.I’m willing go personally put the effort into trying to make my host server get better at fighting even and by God’s grace maybe one day, outnumbered fights and come on top. I see it as an investment for the good of my link and the game mode as a whole.To those that play on NA, it should come as no surprise when I say that SoS is a PPT server. And that they avoid fights at all costs, unless it’s GvG, at which they still get rolled.I’m a roamer myself, I’m on IoJ and represent the miniscule unicorn-like portion of the SoS link. That’s right, IoJ players are a unicorn these days. I am far from being a PvP sensation but I do consider myself to build better than most, and do enjoy outnumbered fights as they give me an opportunity to challenge myself.However, seeing my fellow SoS players getting killed in a 1v3 scenario vs a single enemy scourge while I’m busy chasing 2 other enemies does make me sad.I’m taking to the WvW community in search of guidelines and advice, how do I even begin addressing the issue? How does one go about changing the combat readiness of an entire server?Feel free to comment and suggest. Please do keep it clean and on topic, or I’m going to have the mods meticulously clean this of any irrelevant Maguuma style comments.

Thank you in advance.

1) Accept the fact you cant make them better players, but maybe their builds.

2) Push strong sustain builds rather than meta bunkers or meta dps so that they have both the damage and toughness to help each other without getting roflstomped.

3) Realize that no one want your builds and they would rather just mindlessly zerg on meta builds, so you might as well give it up.

@Dawdler.8521 said:1) Accept the fact you cant make them better players, but maybe their builds.

2) Push strong sustain builds rather than meta bunkers or meta dps so that they have both the damage and toughness to help each other without getting roflstomped.

3) Realize that no one want your builds and they would rather just mindlessly zerg on meta builds, so you might as well give it up.

I feel like it’s a more of a state of mind issue, rather than skill or build.

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:1) Accept the fact you cant make them better players, but maybe their builds.

2) Push strong sustain builds rather than meta bunkers or meta dps so that they have both the damage and toughness to help each other without getting roflstomped.

3) Realize that no one want your builds and they would rather just mindlessly zerg on meta builds, so you might as well give it up.

Of course. Thats the point. You cant fix a broken mind.

I could offer up stuff such as lead by example - tag up havoc and show people how smallscale is done. Encourage people to engage their own targets and help if needed.

But if your server is anything like mine they will just tell you to change to minstrel fb so that they can join on their fb or scourge, or fucking tag off.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:1) Accept the fact you cant make them better players, but maybe their builds.

2) Push strong sustain builds rather than meta bunkers or meta dps so that they have both the damage and toughness to help each other without getting roflstomped.

3) Realize that no one want your builds and they would rather just mindlessly zerg on meta builds, so you might as well give it up.

I have actually had success with just rushing head on and for some reason they decide to follow and engage. But in small scale it’s not even close to even. I’d argue you need 3 SoS players for every 1 BG/Tier2 guest to make it an even fight. On the upside, they’re doing a great job of being cannon fodder while I pick off the enemy team one by one, but hell it feels really one sided and I’d love for it to improve.

you know in small scale its all about damage and speed and stomping.

Quite the humblebrag here.

Most of our server are casual players. You can't change that kind of mindset that easily. There's no serious GvG/zerg busting style guilds to educate and show those players how fun it is when you get good at the game, rather than simply getting farmed.

Trying to recruit on SoS for a more serious guild is like banging my head against a wall. Not easy.

Could be worse. Could be paired with HoD, who are awful roamers and awful PPTers. HoD has maintained t4 by being inexplicably carried by their t7 pairs for months, now.

@Reverence.6915 said:Most of our server are casual players. You can't change that kind of mindset that easily. There's no serious GvG/zerg busting style guilds to educate and show those players how fun it is when you get good at the game, rather than simply getting farmed.

Trying to recruit on SoS for a more serious guild is like banging my head against a wall. Not easy.

There were, tho. Both TBT and BMO fit that criteria.

Well, y'all ran TBT off, so I suppose BMO has to carry the weight of SoS on their shoulders. Idk man, SoS NA has been terrible for the most part forever; all the good roamers are OCX/SEA.

In the interests of helpfulness, I've found that quickly partying up with other roamers to direct them at a target is helpful. That's about as far as you can do, because most players aren't going to change their builds because some other random dude told them so. So pick out targets for them, maybe use a class that allows you to spike high value enemy targets like Scourges or Druids easily, etc.

If you want to be good at something you have to be dedicated to its practice. Secondarily some find mindful reflection useful i.e recording gameplay and playing it back. There's no magic to acquiring skill and experience in any endeavor it just takes time, effort and patience.

Thinking ahead here, wont this topic become irrelevant with the Alliance changes to WvW?

Unless you choose to be part of an Alliance that doesnt support the gameplay (ppt vs actual fights) you enjoy most in WvW, at which point its really back on you to join an alliance that does.

Speaking as a Mag player (please don't report the post I'm trying to be helpful), and former SoS player, their pugs have never been up to par as there were/are a lot of casual players. In the old days a lot of players that got better through playing, were trained in organized guild groups, but back in those days SoS had fight guilds that basically didn't want to be part of the server and didn't really care to train anyone but their own, a lot of times they took who they deemed good and ran off, even so their NA has always been weak on guilds. I was part of one of the bigger zerg guilds on there, and it was extremely difficult getting players to run appropriate builds.

These days on pretty much every server, guilds and pug commanders are dying out, there isn't as much server wide training happening either. The only real way you're going to have a large server wide effect of change is if you're in the lead position actively promoting that change, that either means teaching while pug commanding or from an open guild raid, leading by example.

Other than that it's really up to the individuals to actually want to improve and make the appropriate changes to their game, you can't make those changes for them.The problem is a lot of players also tend to be super casuals, know it alls, or flat out stubborn that will feel insulted at even a hint of advice. Ask people what they're running, ask them what they think of this other build that may be more appropriate, don't suggest a player change their class or build because that's just an instant turn off and don't listen to you action.

Changes which include:

1. Running the appropriate gear, exotics at minimum, right stats for the type of build they're using.
2. Running the right build, not some frankenstein hybrid build that doesn't do much of anything, while many will say metabattle.com is garbage, it is a good beginning starting point on getting a functioning build that you can work on.
3. Watching positioning, stay out of red circles and siege fire, move around pushes, don't be afraid to use escapes, always be moving in battle and don't stand in one spot for long.
4. There are times to run into a fight, times to look for a more appropriate area to fight, and times to run away from a fight. You'd be surprised how many good sized groups will just break and run if you give them a hint of pressure, but also if you're a good sized group don't just break and run, look for a better place to fight like choke points instead of just full out running which leads to your tail or even more than half your group dying without even putting up a fight which in the end was for nothing.
5. Practice and experience will or rather should make you a better player, depending if you decide to learn or be a casual. You're not going to get better experience by always running from a fight, you also won't be able to figure out your class in wvw setting, positioning, and how much you can handle if you just constantly run.
6. Join an organized guild and learning from the experience there, you pick up a lot of strategy tactics and positioning from running in guild groups, even a terrible one should be a learning experience. Play in different roles and group sizes and learn about classes and what they can do, very often roaming fights turn into group fights and knowing group tactics helps.
7. Don't follow a commander blindly, be aware of your surroundings and question what they are doing, yes even the good ones. If a group is sitting on the portal ramming a door, you probably should be standing 10 ft away from them and looking around for incoming enemies. Positioning is one of the most important things to learn in this game. If you're range keep your group between you and the enemy, if you're melee stay on tag but also don't stand in red for longer than you can handle. Don't stand directly behind your group and the enemy or you'll be eating Rev CoR's are examples of watching your position.
8. In fights target the highest priority targets first, that usually means any squishies you can kill quickly over a spellbreaker or firebrand that's going to last a lot longer and be able to mitigate your damage especially your burst damage.
9. Have no fear, it's only points. Die, learn, get better, have fun.

It's a great feeling knowing most of the time the allies around you can fight and won't just break from even number fights. Knowing you can push guild groups without a commander on your side and still have a fighting chance, because those players put in the time to get better.

I've been SoS since I started playing, this is 3 or 4 years old. Guilds with huge demand list will actually have difficulties there. Unfortunately SoS is a server accustomed to a middle ground between pugmanders and professionals. To turn pugs into pros, you have to do some pugmanding, and show that to continue in the guild or to get better results, they will have to adapt the builds and learn to fight. This is how TSYM and TL have grown a lot in few months(but these 2 are in breaktime atm). Full-time exclusive to "pros" guilds like TBT will grow at a very slow pace here. But i agree, the quality of roamers, specially in EBG decayed a lot, i have noticed increase in of rangers lately.

Recently at night I just see Sos blob up AND use too much siege. ( Worse than Yak's Bend did.) I only see sos push if they have a blob and siege cover. But oh you are speaking of the roamers. Um if it is someone traveling to meet their zerg I wouldn't call that a roamer, but that's probably what you are running into.

We from SOS used to have a lot of good roamers most of them quit and playing a different game ,what you are seeing are new players or new to this game even the commanders are new still a lot to learn but we are not complaining win or loose any battle we avoid dramas as possible and have fun playing this game .

@Arlette.9684 said:The title says it all. I’m looking for ideas as to how to educate arguably the best PPT server with the worst KDR across all 4 tiers to get better at the one aspect of the game mode they really fail at. Fighting other players.I’m willing go personally put the effort into trying to make my host server get better at fighting even and by God’s grace maybe one day, outnumbered fights and come on top. I see it as an investment for the good of my link and the game mode as a whole.To those that play on NA, it should come as no surprise when I say that SoS is a PPT server. And that they avoid fights at all costs, unless it’s GvG, at which they still get rolled.I’m a roamer myself, I’m on IoJ and represent the miniscule unicorn-like portion of the SoS link. That’s right, IoJ players are a unicorn these days. I am far from being a PvP sensation but I do consider myself to build better than most, and do enjoy outnumbered fights as they give me an opportunity to challenge myself.However, seeing my fellow SoS players getting killed in a 1v3 scenario vs a single enemy scourge while I’m busy chasing 2 other enemies does make me sad.I’m taking to the WvW community in search of guidelines and advice, how do I even begin addressing the issue? How does one go about changing the combat readiness of an entire server?Feel free to comment and suggest. Please do keep it clean and on topic, or I’m going to have the mods meticulously clean this of any irrelevant Maguuma style comments.

Thank you in advance.

stick together get 50/50 necro/guard

i mean these 2 classes have taken over every job from other classes in gw2 so easy no?one heals like no other other 1 cleanse/removes boons like no other and pumps out 100 of condi's in seconds.

all u need to do is stay tight.

@ugrakarma.9416This is how TSYM and TL have grown a lot in few months(but these 2 are in breaktime atm)

Corons done again already?Lol I thought for sure they'd stick around this time 0.O

Wait what? Coron gave up on the incessant portal bombing? But yeah, SoS small-scale is relatively nonexistent from what I've seen, so you've got your work cut out for you just to get some of them to stop following the tag spamming 1 and F5. Recruiting for a roaming group is probably your best bet. If you can get a few people hooked on the fun of trolling enemy players, you can probably get them interested in stepping up their game in terms of build and gameplay.

@Optimator.3589 said:Recruiting for a roaming group is probably your best bet. If you can get a few people hooked on the fun of trolling enemy players, you can probably get them interested in stepping up their game in terms of build and gameplay.

Except they'll be fighting BG, which means their time will be split between fighting nobody and EVERYBODY with little in between. Though if they're lucky they'll see QQ once or twice a night

In response to the OP, a certain adage comes to mind: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

hmmm... something tells me that Galatis has been sneaking under the radar or something. Great guild group... awesome fights. Look for the GAL tag... Typically anywhere between 10pm to 3am Eastern time. :)

OP was asking for help in changing the "combat readiness" of individuals who can't win 3v1 against a single scourge. Well that does start with breaking up the 40-man zergs where they only learn to spam 1.

Why roam/havoc when it's safer to zerg? Spam 1 = bags.In regards to the players that OP addresses, you'll get it on every server not just SoS. I'm on a linked server and on every host server there are always good and bad players around.Scourges... bit easier to play a ranged toon (Ie: Ranger and Deadeye) to counter them. That being said, I find that playing a Scourge myself helps understand my class better, hence more awareness on how to counter Scourges better. Other than that, it's a combination of build/gear/time/practice/dying to get better. That really depends on the individual.Start small - if you notice the same few players lurking around... invite them and say "hello, lets group up and make some trouble :smiley: ". Focusing on target is definitely good for small scale runs, and the rest comes with practice and attitude. You might find someone who share the same interests.

@Arlette.9684 said:I’m a roamer myself, I’m on IoJ and represent the miniscule unicorn-like portion of the SoS link. That’s right, IoJ players are a unicorn these days.Tbh everytime a new server link happens I can't tell who's from which server (unless attached to a guild somewhat known in WvW)

@"thepinkthingy.5921" said:Why roam/havoc when it's safer to zerg? Spam 1 = bags.In regards to the players that OP addresses, you'll get it on every server not just SoS. I'm on a linked server and on every host server there are always good and bad players around.Scourges... bit easier to play a ranged toon (Ie: Ranger and Deadeye) to counter them. That being said, I find that playing a Scourge myself helps understand my class better, hence more awareness on how to counter Scourges better. Other than that, it's a combination of build/gear/time/practice/dying to get better. That really depends on the individual.Start small - if you notice the same few players lurking around... invite them and say "hello, lets group up and make some trouble :smiley: ". Focusing on target is definitely good for small scale runs, and the rest comes with practice and attitude. You might find someone who share the same interests.

@Arlette.9684 said:I’m a roamer myself, I’m on IoJ and represent the miniscule unicorn-like portion of the SoS link. That’s right, IoJ players are a unicorn these days.Tbh everytime a new server link happens I can't tell who's from which server (unless attached to a guild somewhat known in WvW)

Sure it is safer to be in numbers, but then you don't learn the skills of the class you are playing nor learn to identify what other classes are doing.