Going For a Challenge

So I am in perfect understanding that Revenant is not in the best position at the moment, but I need some type of challenge to keep my interests flowing in GW2, so I want to try and reach peak performance with Revenant in PvE, PvP, and WvW.

I love being a support, and I believe there is a Ventari Healer build on metabattle (or is that not valid anymore?). However, I can't decide if I should reach that peak performance through conditions or power.

Any suggestions?

You can't reach peak in all modes.

You can be all around good, but if you want to be a pro, pick one game mode.

Power rev in pvp/wvw, others are not viable.Condi renegade in pve is also pretty good.Ventari is not good enough as of yet compared to other support specs.

@BeLZedaR.4790 said:Power rev in pvp/wvw, others are not viable.Condi renegade in pve is also pretty good.Ventari is not good enough as of yet compared to other support specs.

Is condi not viable because of all of the condi cleanse/converts?

@Lotus Bane.9387 said:

@BeLZedaR.4790 said:Power rev in pvp/wvw, others are not viable.Condi renegade in pve is also pretty good.Ventari is not good enough as of yet compared to other support specs.

Because all of its skills that apply pressure are skillshots that can be avoided by a competent opponent, thief gives you a very hard time especially. But generally it struggles against power specs. And now scourge strips your resistance so even your condition matchups are bad.Pre-pof I got legend with it because it had top matchups vs all condi builds and was able to manage power. But s/d thief and scourge are way too much.

@Lotus Bane.9387 said:So I am in perfect understanding that Revenant is not in the best position at the moment, but I need some type of challenge to keep my interests flowing in GW2, so I want to try and reach peak performance with Revenant in PvE, PvP, and WvW.

I love being a support, and I believe there is a Ventari Healer build on metabattle (or is that not valid anymore?). However, I can't decide if I should reach that peak performance through conditions or power.

Any suggestions?

I am on the same exact path as you.I chose power. Assassin stance and glint. I swap glit on jalis in some scenarios. I have gotten good results, although i am no pro, But i can make a difference in pvp games.I havent dipped into condition. But i read about build for pve conditions, and m sure it will work..but it does not even come close to scourges, which has kept me away from crafting another armor/weapon/equipment set. Maybe cuz power has been satisfying me till now..? Give it a try and post your experiences if you like.For support ventari + glint/jalis is was i used. Hammer/staff. Full minstrels. When team is not pressured then use hammer and glint, and when you need those green numbers then camp ventari. I like it cuz its a very unique style of playing. Nothing compares to ventari tablet thing in game, so its fun. Then there are facts that say ventari is not as good as other classes that are agreeable, but dont worry about it cuz there is only so much a class can provide but the real part comes to play which are your skills and presence of mind etc. I made it work in quiet a few situations where no other class could have and my squad/team appreciated for it. Make it work and be awesome!

The more you play the better you get at understanding a rev, and the better you make use of the things rev can do.There are not a lot of people who play rev pvp, so its hard to watch someone and learn to get good.

I hope rev gets more love from anet in future , but thats ok, anet has bigger things to handle than solving rev issues, that ok honestly :)

Happy reving to you!

I only do PVE and a little WvW on rev, but I haven't done WvW since before PoF. I can give PVE advice, though.

In general, the Rev is not a challenge in PVE. Sure, it isn't exactly a meta class, but the class isn't impotent in any way. Rev is good at many things, but sadly it is rarely best-in-slot. There are 3 general builds you want to go for:

The power build looks like this. Though if you aren't running in a team with full buffs, you'll want glint over either jalis or shiro for legends. The DPS rotation is pretty simple:

Opening: Start in Jalis to burst. Activate Vengeful hammers really fast, then use Sword 2, Sword 4, and Sword 5 in that order.Step 1: Swap to shiro. Use impossible odds. Auto attack and use sword 2 when off cooldown.Step 2: Swap to Jalis. Use Vengeful hammers. Auto attack use sword 2, and sword 4 when off cooldown.Step 3: repeat from step 1.

Basically you blow all your energy then maintain the upkeep skills for as long as possible. If you don't have a team with full buffs, swap out either Shiro or Jalis for glint. The rotation is nearly exactly the same, escept you start in Glint and use elemental blast when off cooldown. While in glint, keep facet of darkness, facet of strength at all times, and facet of chaos when in battle.

If you're running solo, the combination of Glint and the traits will let you maintain 25 self-might, swiftness, fury, and protection. The amount of healing you get from life leech and vengeful hammers means you'll be incredibly hard to kill. Overall, the build is pretty easy to play, but the DPS is a bit low. Jalis + Shiro caps out at 29k or so, but if you run glint you'll be doing 24k to 26k.

The condi build looks like this. There are builds that use Invocation instead of Devastation. The condi build has more nuances than "sword 2 + upkeep", but in longer engagements it has the most DPS. Likewise, the condi build is really versatile in what it can do, without changing much at all. For DPS rotation, you'll want something like this:

Opening: Start in Malyx. Quickly use Embrace the Darkness, Unyielding Anguish, Axe 5, Mace 2, Mace 3, then swap. If you run out of energy first, swap legends as soon as you're left auto attacking.Step 1: Swap to Kalla. Use Citadel Bombardment. Keep using Mace 2, Mace 3 (in that order) when off cooldown. While in Kalla, you should end up building up enough energy to use Razorclaw's Rage. When legend swap is off cooldown, go back to Malyx.Step 2: Swap to Malyx. Use Embrace the Darkness. Keep using Mace 2, Mace 3 (in that order), axe 5 when off cooldown. When legend swap is off cooldown, go back to Kalla.

That is the general rotation. However, as the condi build can fulfill many roles, you may find yourself doing different things. In general, I sacrifice using axe 5 to do any one of the following:

1: If your team has low might generation, use Heroic Command2: If your team needs boon strip, use Banish Enchantment3: If your team needs healing, use SoulCleave's Summit. SoulCleave is actually really good at healing a team, even on the condi build.4: If there are long periods of disengagement, store up energy in Mallyx, then unload multiple Unyielding Anguish when the enemy reveals itself/becomes vulnerable.

Note that I said "one". There is very little spare energy in the DPS rotation, so the more roles you try to fulfill the less damage you do, and also the more difficult the class becomes to play. On a team with full buffs that doesn't need additional boon strip, the DPS rotation is only somewhat harder than in the power build.

Condi renegade is capable of maintain group 25 might, self fury, and self vigor. The ramp up can be a bit troublesome in the overworld and in fractals, but overall the build is good enough to get a spot in raids.

The ventari healer looks something like this. There are versions which use Invocation instead of devastation, and also nearly every trait in salvation can be swapped out for others. The healing build is capable of putting out the most heal per second out of any class, but this comes at the caveat that this build is really hard to play.

The general rotation is... well there isn't one. Basically you sit in sword and auto attack until you need to use another skill. This is done to stack as much vulnerability as possible. For the two legends, there are two things you want to do in each legend:

Ventari: Use Natural Harmony as much as possible. You'll want to put most of your energy into this skill. Pay careful attention to where the tablet spawns, as you may need to move it around a lot depending on circumstances. If you need to condi cleanse, use staff 4 or purifying essence. If you are might stacking, use Heroic Command when it is off cooldown.Kalla: Use Orders from Above, then use Soul Cleave. Use Breakrazor in a heavy condition environment. Again, use Heroic Command when it is off cooldown when might stacking.

If you're on a team that already stacks might for you, then you can change the trait Lasting Legacy into Righteous Rebel, for more Alacrity. There are a lot of skills and a lot of buffs to keep track of while using this build, but the hardest part of playing a healing rev is managing the tablet. In content that requires splitting, or when playing with newbs/n00bs who don't know that the tablet pulses out massive heals, you'll end up having to chase down players to heal them. The initial response to damage is panic running, so anyone without the soul of a soldier will go full frenetic whenever they get low. You'll either have to let them die, or chase them down with the tablet while trying to heal them. This is a gigantic PITA. The greatest weakness of this build is that the heals are immobile, and affect a narrow area.

Its strengths, however, are many. It maintains permanent regen, near permanent alacrity, massive outgoing healing, group 25 might, self-fury, and also you can block a near endless amount of projectiles with this build. No kidding, you can solo Ensolyss the Eternal Torment with the healing rev. As far as healing builds go, it can maintain a surprising amount of damage, too.

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I only do PVE and a little WvW on rev, but I haven't done WvW since before PoF. I can give PVE advice, though.

In general, the Rev is not a challenge in PVE. Sure, it isn't exactly a meta class, but the class isn't impotent in any way. Rev is good at many things, but sadly it is rarely best-in-slot. There are 3 general builds you want to go for:

The power build looks like this. Though if you aren't running in a team with full buffs, you'll want glint over either jalis or shiro for legends. The DPS rotation is pretty simple:

Opening: Start in Jalis to burst. Activate Vengeful hammers really fast, then use Sword 2, Sword 4, and Sword 5 in that order.Step 1: Swap to shiro. Use impossible odds. Auto attack and use sword 2 when off cooldown.Step 2: Swap to Jalis. Use Vengeful hammers. Auto attack use sword 2, and sword 4 when off cooldown.Step 3: repeat from step 1.

Basically you blow all your energy then maintain the upkeep skills for as long as possible. If you don't have a team with full buffs, swap out either Shiro or Jalis for glint. The rotation is nearly exactly the same, escept you start in Glint and use elemental blast when off cooldown. While in glint, keep facet of darkness, facet of strength at all times, and facet of chaos when in battle.

If you're running solo, the combination of Glint and the traits will let you maintain 25 self-might, swiftness, fury, and protection. The amount of healing you get from life leech and vengeful hammers means you'll be incredibly hard to kill. Overall, the build is pretty easy to play, but the DPS is a bit low. Jalis + Shiro caps out at 29k or so, but if you run glint you'll be doing 24k to 26k.

---

The condi build looks like this. There are builds that use Invocation instead of Devastation. The condi build has more nuances than "sword 2 + upkeep", but in longer engagements it has the most DPS. Likewise, the condi build is really versatile in what it can do, without changing much at all. For DPS rotation, you'll want something like this:

Opening: Start in Malyx. Quickly use Embrace the Darkness, Unyielding Anguish, Axe 5, Mace 2, Mace 3, then swap. If you run out of energy first, swap legends as soon as you're left auto attacking.Step 1: Swap to Kalla. Use Citadel Bombardment. Keep using Mace 2, Mace 3 (in that order) when off cooldown. While in Kalla, you should end up building up enough energy to use Razorclaw's Rage. When legend swap is off cooldown, go back to Malyx.Step 2: Swap to Malyx. Use Embrace the Darkness. Keep using Mace 2, Mace 3 (in that order), axe 5 when off cooldown. When legend swap is off cooldown, go back to Kalla.

That is the general rotation. However, as the condi build can fulfill many roles, you may find yourself doing different things. In general, I sacrifice using axe 5 to do any one of the following:

1: If your team has low might generation, use Heroic Command2: If your team needs boon strip, use Banish Enchantment3: If your team needs healing, use SoulCleave's Summit. SoulCleave is actually really good at healing a team, even on the condi build.4: If there are long periods of disengagement, store up energy in Mallyx, then unload multiple Unyielding Anguish when the enemy reveals itself/becomes vulnerable.

Note that I said "one". There is very little spare energy in the DPS rotation, so the more roles you try to fulfill the less damage you do, and also the more difficult the class becomes to play. On a team with full buffs that doesn't need additional boon strip, the DPS rotation is only somewhat harder than in the power build.

Condi renegade is capable of maintain group 25 might, self fury, and self vigor. The ramp up can be a bit troublesome in the overworld and in fractals, but overall the build is good enough to get a spot in raids.

---

The ventari healer looks something like this. There are versions which use Invocation instead of devastation, and also nearly every trait in salvation can be swapped out for others. The healing build is capable of putting out the most heal per second out of any class, but this comes at the caveat that this build is really hard to play.

The general rotation is... well there isn't one. Basically you sit in sword and auto attack until you need to use another skill. This is done to stack as much vulnerability as possible. For the two legends, there are two things you want to do in each legend:

Ventari: Use Natural Harmony as much as possible. You'll want to put most of your energy into this skill. Pay careful attention to where the tablet spawns, as you may need to move it around a lot depending on circumstances. If you need to condi cleanse, use staff 4 or purifying essence. If you are might stacking, use Heroic Command when it is off cooldown.Kalla: Use Orders from Above, then use Soul Cleave. Use Breakrazor in a heavy condition environment. Again, use Heroic Command when it is off cooldown when might stacking.

If you're on a team that already stacks might for you, then you can change the trait Lasting Legacy into Righteous Rebel, for more Alacrity. There are a lot of skills and a lot of buffs to keep track of while using this build, but the hardest part of playing a healing rev is managing the tablet. In content that requires splitting, or when playing with newbs/n00bs who don't know that the tablet pulses out massive heals, you'll end up having to chase down players to heal them. The initial response to damage is panic running, so anyone without the soul of a soldier will go full frenetic whenever they get low. You'll either have to let them die, or chase them down with the tablet while trying to heal them. This is a gigantic PITA. The greatest weakness of this build is that the heals are immobile, and affect a narrow area.

Its strengths, however, are many. It maintains permanent regen, near permanent alacrity, massive outgoing healing, group 25 might, self-fury, and also you can block a near endless amount of projectiles with this build. No kidding, you can solo Ensolyss the Eternal Torment with the healing rev. As far as healing builds go, it can maintain a surprising amount of damage, too.

I've been trying to work out a build with Renegade, so its good to know that there is one. I love using Orders from Above. Constant alacrity without having to play mesmer lol. I know you said that you've only been doing PvE lately, but from your personal opinion, do you think that condi build would be useful in other modes with maybe some adjustments?

Also was it intentional to use both nightmare and trapper runes?

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:

@Lotus Bane.9387 said:So I am in perfect understanding that Revenant is not in the best position at the moment, but I need some type of challenge to keep my interests flowing in GW2, so I want to try and reach peak performance with Revenant in PvE, PvP, and WvW.

I love being a support, and I believe there is a Ventari Healer build on metabattle (or is that not valid anymore?). However, I can't decide if I should reach that peak performance through conditions or power.

Any suggestions?

The tablet is definitely fun, but I still have to get used to micro managing it in the middle of combat.

@Lotus Bane.9387 said:I've been trying to work out a build with Renegade, so its good to know that there is one. I love using Orders from Above. Constant alacrity without having to play mesmer lol. I know you said that you've only been doing PvE lately, but from your personal opinion, do you think that condi build would be useful in other modes with maybe some adjustments?

Also was it intentional to use both nightmare and trapper runes?

Using both nightmare and trapper runes maximizes condition duration. Renegade inflicts every single damaging condition in significant amounts, so you'll want to have as much condi duration as possible.

There is a lot of recent changes to WvW on top of PoF, so in all likelyhood the game doesn't resemble anything that I knew in the past. However, using logic and a few educated guesses...

Condi rev was really good at skirmishing and roaming. I've won 1v3 bouts simply by herding people to a corner and unloading multiple Unyielding Anguishes on them. Do not underestimate UA in general, since it can do things like hit through walls and around corners. The ability to maintain permanent resistance meant that you could auto win against another condi build, and the bizarre engagement range of mace/axe lets you do plenty of damage at range. I can't speak for Renegade much, since Herald's boons are really good for WvW.

But as far as zergs go... condi rev isn't the best. It lacks the engagement range, and also resistance corrupts into immobilize, which means that what was formerly its best asset is now its worst enemy. You'll find yourself using the hammer, just because it is the only weapon at with good range. Other than being a resistance and cleanse bot, the condi herald is sort of just a weaker power herald.

If a challenge is what you seek then try reaching platinum in pvp next season playing exclusively renegade with either the Kala legend or a shortbow. Bonus points if you use both.

@"Lotus Bane.9387" said:So I am in perfect understanding that Revenant is not in the best position at the moment, but I need some type of challenge to keep my interests flowing in GW2, so I want to try and reach peak performance with Revenant in PvE, PvP, and WvW.

I love being a support, and I believe there is a Ventari Healer build on metabattle (or is that not valid anymore?). However, I can't decide if I should reach that peak performance through conditions or power.

Any suggestions?

In PvE, Ventari Revs are actually the strongest healer... The problem is that if you're playing in "Peak Performance" groups, nobody needs that much healing and you don't bring the offensive support that Druids do. You can find a nice spot as condi dps (and an assassin's presence bot) in raids still though.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Lotus Bane.9387 said:I've been trying to work out a build with Renegade, so its good to know that there is one. I love using Orders from Above. Constant alacrity without having to play mesmer lol. I know you said that you've only been doing PvE lately, but from your personal opinion, do you think that condi build would be useful in other modes with maybe some adjustments?

Also was it intentional to use both nightmare and trapper runes?

Pretty..odd... that resistance converts in immobilize. Maybe I'm having a dumb moment, but I don't see the concept behind that conversion like the other conversions lol. I rarely use condi builds, but rev mace is so much fun to use. I hate doing it, but I suppose I'll carry around a 2nd set for healing in WvW zergs as well.

Razorclaw's Rage is a little annoying to use, but does the expertise stat make it a bit better with the Bleed duration increase?

@"ArthurDent.9538" said:If a challenge is what you seek then try reaching platinum in pvp next season playing exclusively renegade with either the Kala legend or a shortbow. Bonus points if you use both.

I think I may actually shoot for that. I love playing Renegade, but it feels like the summons have less defense than mesmer phantasms. The summons should have more traits tailored to them other than "All For One," which is quite useless compared to the other 2 traits.