Future Expansion — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Future Expansion

Guild Wars 2: Sea of Shadows
Location: Unending Ocean
Antagonist: Bubbles
New Playable Race: Largos
New Mount: Megalodon

It could consist of 5 Acts.
Act 1: Largos Personal Story
Act 2: The Pact and the Largos meet and form an alliance.
Act 3: The Pact discovers a Dragon egg belonging to Bubbles and transports it to the Largos city to be protected.
Act 4: Bubbles launches an attack against the Largos city in an effort to get back its egg.
Act 5: The Pact forms a counteroffensive against Bubbles, killing it. Bubbles' death releases a massive amount of energy that is absorbed by the Dragon Egg.

The following Living World Season could be about Aurene training the new dragon. I also thought, what if there were more dragon eggs, and what if each one chose a different member of Dragon's Watch to be it's "partner", in the way the Commander and Aurene were. The new dragon egg could choose the Largos.

I've read many forum posts about potential problems with adding a new playable race and underwater combat and I've thought of a few potential solutions.

New Playable Race: The issues normally presented are armor models and the Personal Story.
Since the Largos are humanoid creatures, they would use the same model as humans, so that wouldn't be an issue.
As for the personal story, I thought of something implemented in the first Guild Wars games. Obviously, Largos characters can't be the Commander, since they weren't around for the forming of The Pact and the events of the core game, Heart of Thorns, and Path of Fire. But what if they didn't have to be? Largos characters could be new members of Dragon's Watch. And the Commander? Character Heroes. Heroes were introduced in Guild Wars Nightfall as a more customizable party option. Shortly before the release of Guild Wars 2, Character Heroes were added to the game. The idea was that you could turn a character you had created and played into a hero that other characters could use. My idea works similarly. You would choose a character you created to become your Commander, and when playing your Largos, they would appear when playing any mission that would involve the Commander.

Underwater Combat: While I don't have any personal qualms about underwater combat, many people do. To help, I have a couple ideas.
One complaint I see often is movement. The additional dimension of the Z axis is fun but can be troublesome to some people. I think the simple idea would be to add a button that allows travel along the Z axis. While space lets you ascend, there is no button, that I know of, that lets you descend.
Additionally, many people have problems with profession balance while underwater, and it's pretty noticeable that some professions excel in underwater combat, and others don't. The solution would be to rework underwater combat for specific professions. Adding new weapons and skills would greatly help. And adding a new underwater mount would help with travel.

So, let me know what you think, and if you have any ideas to add.

<13

Comments

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭

    I honestly think we would more likely see Tengu as a playable race before Largos. But then again, I don't really see them adding any new playable races at this point.
    Though, I do belive that bubbles will be the next elder dragon we fight after Kralkatorik

  • Zhaveh.6801Zhaveh.6801 Member ✭✭

    I believe they said something about not adding new races a long time ago

  • Daniel.5428Daniel.5428 Member ✭✭✭

    Sorry to tell you but is a copy of HoT....one elder dragon, one egg, ond ead elder dragon, the egg hatches.....kitten, same thing.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zhaveh.6801 said:
    I believe they said something about not adding new races a long time ago

    Around HoT, but they didn't say that they never would, just that the work vs. reward ratio doesn't make it as worthwhile as, say, a new profession. It's not at the top of their list, but as they move through their priorities, it could potentially still be on the table.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    I honestly think we would more likely see Tengu as a playable race before Largos. But then again, I don't really see them adding any new playable races at this point.
    Though, I do belive that bubbles will be the next elder dragon we fight after Kralkatorik

    I don't see the Tengu being added. Largos make the most sense since they're humanoid, almost unknown, and already reside in the Unending Ocean.
    They did say, if the story called for it, they would add a new playable race.

    @Daniel.5428 said:
    Sorry to tell you but is a copy of HoT....one elder dragon, one egg, ond ead elder dragon, the egg hatches.....kitten, same thing.

    Not really. The egg was discovered before HoT even started and hatched during the campaign. It also didn't absorb dragon energy. The new egg would be found in the campaign and hatch in the following Living World season. And we've had 2 campaigns where we killed an Elder Dragon. They're kinda the main antagonists of the series.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 9, 2018

    @BerriosC.7295 said:
    Not really. The egg was discovered before HoT even started and hatched during the campaign. It also didn't absorb dragon energy. The new egg would be found in the campaign and hatch in the following Living World season. And we've had 2 campaigns where we killed an Elder Dragon. They're kinda the main antagonists of the series.

    Gonna be honest with you. It really is a copy of S2+HoT. As much so as PoF is a copy of Nightfall (more so, actually). And the egg did absorb energy from Mordremoth's death (ergo "dragon energy"). It was half of the premise starting Season 3. Also, the egg hatched during Season 3, not during Heart of Thorns.

    Create an alliance. Find an egg and take it to a city. Dragon launches assault on city. Counter offensive that unleashes magic absorbed by egg.

    About the mechanics for underwater:

    • There is indeed a button to descent, but you have to set it in options; by default it is unbound.
    • Simply a rebalance would be a good first step, but it's far from the best or only needed step. In this, we need equal amount of skills above and below water (and ideally weapons too); and traits need to differentiate between land and underwater just like skills do.
    • One major issue besides balance is targeting methods - this is largely restricted due to camera panning (the restriction of how far we can face up or down), and the issue of ground targeting systems (a pretty big thing with many skills) being null and void.
    • Last issue is mobility and maneuverability. In general, I don't think we'll get new mounts with new expansions; most new mounts would be the same old thing. If we do get one, it'd most likely be underwater-only as I feel that's all that's left, however, a mount doesn't help the issue of underwater exploration. Mounts in GW2 give us "speed over maneuverability" and it is both that's the issue.
    • To account for this, a series of masteries would be ideal to improve mobility. There's many possible ways to go about this.
  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 9, 2018

    @BerriosC.7295 said:
    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Daniel.5428 said:
    Sorry to tell you but is a copy of HoT....one elder dragon, one egg, ond ead elder dragon, the egg hatches.....kitten, same thing.

    Not really. The egg was discovered before HoT even started and hatched during the campaign. It also didn't absorb dragon energy. The new egg would be found in the campaign and hatch in the following Living World season. And we've had 2 campaigns where we killed an Elder Dragon. They're kinda the main antagonists of the series.

    Aurene's? It was discovered before HoT, absorbed dragon energy at the end of the expansion, and hatched in the second episode of S3.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @BerriosC.7295 said:
    Not really. The egg was discovered before HoT even started and hatched during the campaign. It also didn't absorb dragon energy. The new egg would be found in the campaign and hatch in the following Living World season. And we've had 2 campaigns where we killed an Elder Dragon. They're kinda the main antagonists of the series.

    Gonna be honest with you. It really is a copy of S2+HoT. As much so as PoF is a copy of Nightfall (more so, actually). And the egg did absorb energy from Mordremoth's death (ergo "dragon energy"). It was half of the premise starting Season 3. Also, the egg hatched during Season 3, not during Heart of Thorns.

    Create an alliance. Find an egg and take it to a city. Dragon launches assault on city. Counter offensive that unleashes magic absorbed by egg.

    Okay, so It's been a couple years since I played HoT, my timeline was a little off. Regardless, I don't see anyone else here coming up with ideas. Other eggs are just the logical way to go. It was made clear that we can't just kill the dragons. Something needs to replace them. Ergo, new dragon's. And we're not gonna get new dragons without dragon eggs. Another idea could be that the Largos already found an egg, hatched it, and are raising it.

    About the mechanics for underwater:

    • There is indeed a button to descent, but you have to set it in options; by default it is unbound.

    As I said, "While space lets you ascend, there is no button, THAT I KNOW OF, that lets you descend."

  • Zhaveh.6801Zhaveh.6801 Member ✭✭

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @Zhaveh.6801 said:
    I believe they said something about not adding new races a long time ago

    Around HoT, but they didn't say that they never would, just that the work vs. reward ratio doesn't make it as worthwhile as, say, a new profession. It's not at the top of their list, but as they move through their priorities, it could potentially still be on the table.

    I think you're right about that, but by the time we get a new race the game will be on its 10 year mark

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If we get a new playble race to fight a deep sea dragon then clearly it must be the strongest, bravest and most qualified aquatic race of fighters - Qaggans.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭

    if they add new races it'll be after a revamp to the new player experience and they need a way to fill low level areas with players wanting to level a character

  • Alga.6498Alga.6498 Member ✭✭✭

    I would love an exp like you said, ft a new race, Largos or Tengu, finally discovering Deep Sea Dragon, plenty of maps in Unending Ocean and finally a underwater mount!
    I hope we'll get similiar of this, I am so tired of Jungles and Deserts now. :(

    | GW1 2008~ | GW2 BETA player | Separatist | Nightmare Court | Ebonhawke | Ascalon | White Mantle | Inquest | Istan | Kourna | Vabbi | 71 characters | Sweden | The NPC help center | Make Dervish (Scythe) and Paragon (Spear) playable to us players too! |

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ardid.7203 said:
    Why so many people like Largos is beyond my understanding. They are just pale human with black breathers, SM clothes and an oversized gemstore backpack, who try to pass as mysterious and menacing by actually don't saying anything and being always alone or hidden.

    How would you customize a Largos? How would you put a normal backpack on them?
    Would they have an actual face now, or will always have those masks on them? If that's the case, how would you adapt the rest of the face-gear to them?
    If you customize a Largos the same way as a human, what would be the difference, if any?
    How would you justify a Largos being socially active and on the open? Would they dance, sing and use all the stupid magic-boxes? How could them continue to be mysterious if they began to delve in silly Rata Sum parties? Would they still be interesting with violet hair, pink clothes and the dreamer?

    IMO Largos are only interesting for what we DON'T know of them, and the moment you remove their uninspired aqua-drow surface there will be nothing underneath.

    Also almost racial skills are purposely overnerfed to make any difference, its a waste.
    I do not know the point of a new race if it does not have much difference besides the aesthetic and a few mechanics in lore.

    "The mists are full of lies"

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @Ardid.7203 said:
    Why so many people like Largos is beyond my understanding. They are just pale human with black breathers, SM clothes and an oversized gemstore backpack, who try to pass as mysterious and menacing by actually don't saying anything and being always alone or hidden.

    How would you customize a Largos? How would you put a normal backpack on them?
    Would they have an actual face now, or will always have those masks on them? If that's the case, how would you adapt the rest of the face-gear to them?
    If you customize a Largos the same way as a human, what would be the difference, if any?
    How would you justify a Largos being socially active and on the open? Would they dance, sing and use all the stupid magic-boxes? How could them continue to be mysterious if they began to delve in silly Rata Sum parties? Would they still be interesting with violet hair, pink clothes and the dreamer?

    IMO Largos are only interesting for what we DON'T know of them, and the moment you remove their uninspired aqua-drow surface there will be nothing underneath.

    Also almost racial skills are purposely overnerfed to make any difference, its a waste.
    I do not know the point of a new race if it does not have much difference besides the aesthetic and a few mechanics in lore.

    fashion wars and RP.

    but i wish anet just turn racial skills into toys

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ardid.7203 said:
    Why so many people like Largos is beyond my understanding. They are just pale human with black breathers, SM clothes and an oversized gemstore backpack, who try to pass as mysterious and menacing by actually don't saying anything and being always alone or hidden.

    How would you customize a Largos? How would you put a normal backpack on them?
    Would they have an actual face now, or will always have those masks on them? If that's the case, how would you adapt the rest of the face-gear to them?
    If you customize a Largos the same way as a human, what would be the difference, if any?
    How would you justify a Largos being socially active and on the open? Would they dance, sing and use all the stupid magic-boxes? How could them continue to be mysterious if they began to delve in silly Rata Sum parties? Would they still be interesting with violet hair, pink clothes and the dreamer?

    IMO Largos are only interesting for what we DON'T know of them, and the moment you remove their uninspired aqua-drow surface there will be nothing underneath.

    Customization like every other race and for the bit that varies with each race, ears. They also have new voices and animations and new maps NOT lvl 80, which would be refreshing. That’s to begin with

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2018

    @Ardid.7203 said:
    How would you justify a Largos being socially active and on the open? Would they dance, sing and use all the stupid magic-boxes? How could them continue to be > mysterious if they began to delve in silly Rata Sum parties? Would they still be interesting with violet hair, pink clothes and the dreamer?

    rofl bro youre killing me 😂😂😂😂😂😂

    "The mists are full of lies"

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @Ardid.7203 said:
    Why so many people like Largos is beyond my understanding. They are just pale human with black breathers, SM clothes and an oversized gemstore backpack, who try to pass as mysterious and menacing by actually don't saying anything and being always alone or hidden.

    How would you customize a Largos? How would you put a normal backpack on them?
    Would they have an actual face now, or will always have those masks on them? If that's the case, how would you adapt the rest of the face-gear to them?
    If you customize a Largos the same way as a human, what would be the difference, if any?
    How would you justify a Largos being socially active and on the open? Would they dance, sing and use all the stupid magic-boxes? How could them continue to be mysterious if they began to delve in silly Rata Sum parties? Would they still be interesting with violet hair, pink clothes and the dreamer?

    IMO Largos are only interesting for what we DON'T know of them, and the moment you remove their uninspired aqua-drow surface there will be nothing underneath.

    Customization like every other race and for the bit that varies with each race, ears. They also have new voices and animations and new maps NOT lvl 80, which would be refreshing. That’s to begin with

    So they will NOT have their wings, and they will NOT use their masks, and will be almost identical to humans in everything except some animations, voices and... ears. Really?

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2018

    I’d really love an underwater expansion starring Bubbles! It’d be so cool to have them revamp/balance underwater gameplay in general, while adding new features to the purchased expansion (a mount, more weapons, etc).

    Largos would be fun to play. Logistically I think if they add a new race they should just attach them to another race’s personal story - maybe make a Lion’s arch origin for new races? Then they’re sent to help stabilize an area in Tyria of the players choosing. Like you’re a Lionguard recruit sent to help one of the races investigate an issue. Idk.

    Personally I’d love to have playable QUAGGANS. Or at least a Quaggan DW member.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ardid.7203 said:

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @Ardid.7203 said:
    Why so many people like Largos is beyond my understanding. They are just pale human with black breathers, SM clothes and an oversized gemstore backpack, who try to pass as mysterious and menacing by actually don't saying anything and being always alone or hidden.

    How would you customize a Largos? How would you put a normal backpack on them?
    Would they have an actual face now, or will always have those masks on them? If that's the case, how would you adapt the rest of the face-gear to them?
    If you customize a Largos the same way as a human, what would be the difference, if any?
    How would you justify a Largos being socially active and on the open? Would they dance, sing and use all the stupid magic-boxes? How could them continue to be mysterious if they began to delve in silly Rata Sum parties? Would they still be interesting with violet hair, pink clothes and the dreamer?

    IMO Largos are only interesting for what we DON'T know of them, and the moment you remove their uninspired aqua-drow surface there will be nothing underneath.

    Customization like every other race and for the bit that varies with each race, ears. They also have new voices and animations and new maps NOT lvl 80, which would be refreshing. That’s to begin with

    So they will NOT have their wings, and they will NOT use their masks, and will be almost identical to humans in everything except some animations, voices and... ears. Really?

    Masks as a cultural skin, the wings have to be explained away because they don’t work with the back skin system. And if anyone wants them they’re gemstone items anyway. The BLTC’s ability to replicate their wings is also suggestive that they are not part of their bodies. Throw in a line about wings being for scouts or some reason we’ve seen it on the largos we met. And yes, the main reason is cosmetics, and new animations, voice, skin hair and ears is plenty for most. If you look at other games, you’ll see them adding tons of new races with small differences

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Ardid.7203Ardid.7203 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @Ardid.7203 said:

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @Ardid.7203 said:
    Why so many people like Largos is beyond my understanding. They are just pale human with black breathers, SM clothes and an oversized gemstore backpack, who try to pass as mysterious and menacing by actually don't saying anything and being always alone or hidden.

    How would you customize a Largos? How would you put a normal backpack on them?
    Would they have an actual face now, or will always have those masks on them? If that's the case, how would you adapt the rest of the face-gear to them?
    If you customize a Largos the same way as a human, what would be the difference, if any?
    How would you justify a Largos being socially active and on the open? Would they dance, sing and use all the stupid magic-boxes? How could them continue to be mysterious if they began to delve in silly Rata Sum parties? Would they still be interesting with violet hair, pink clothes and the dreamer?

    IMO Largos are only interesting for what we DON'T know of them, and the moment you remove their uninspired aqua-drow surface there will be nothing underneath.

    Customization like every other race and for the bit that varies with each race, ears. They also have new voices and animations and new maps NOT lvl 80, which would be refreshing. That’s to begin with

    So they will NOT have their wings, and they will NOT use their masks, and will be almost identical to humans in everything except some animations, voices and... ears. Really?

    Masks as a cultural skin, the wings have to be explained away because they don’t work with the back skin system. And if anyone wants them they’re gemstone items anyway. The BLTC’s ability to replicate their wings is also suggestive that they are not part of their bodies. Throw in a line about wings being for scouts or some reason we’ve seen it on the largos we met. And yes, the main reason is cosmetics, and new animations, voice, skin hair and ears is plenty for most. If you look at other games, you’ll see them adding tons of new races with small differences

    Exactly. One of the reasons many people liked GW2 in the first place is because the playable races (species!) in the game world feel much more distinct and consistent than the typical copy-paste other franchises use and abuse. All I hope is for Anet to keep going in its own more detailed and dedicated path instead of joining the lame half work that is so usual in the market. That is why I don't believe Largos to be a good option for a playable race: the only merit they can offer is to be extremely cheap to implement. 98% humans, 2% ears, nothing truly remarkable or special. Everything unique on them would have to be removed to make them playable!

  • @BerriosC.7295 said:
    Guild Wars 2: Sea of Shadows
    Location: Unending Ocean
    Antagonist: Bubbles
    New Playable Race: Largos
    New Mount: Megalodon

    It could consist of 5 Acts.
    Act 1: Largos Personal Story
    Act 2: The Pact and the Largos meet and form an alliance.
    Act 3: The Pact discovers a Dragon egg belonging to Bubbles and transports it to the Largos city to be protected.
    Act 4: Bubbles launches an attack against the Largos city in an effort to get back its egg.
    Act 5: The Pact forms a counteroffensive against Bubbles, killing it. Bubbles' death releases a massive amount of energy that is absorbed by the Dragon Egg.

    Yes please, Bubbles kek 😂😂😂😂

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭

    To be honest, I would think that the next expansion would likely take us to Cantha, as I don't see them dragging out the Elona/Kralkatorik plot for much longer after this season of the living story is over.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    To be honest, I would think that the next expansion would likely take us to Cantha, as I don't see them dragging out the Elona/Kralkatorik plot for much longer after this season of the living story is over.

    Well, Samurai warrior elite, ninja on thief, underperforming sepuko master on guardian,, mesmer male geixas (taikomochi if i recall well the name), too sooon for that...

    LA, has in Lag Arch city needs to go again... and the Queen needs some shoes.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    To be honest, I would think that the next expansion would likely take us to Cantha, as I don't see them dragging out the Elona/Kralkatorik plot for much longer after this season of the living story is over.

    IMO cantha is sill quite far off. However, your comment about the current story gave me an idea - what if they opened the next expansion with Kralkatorrik dying? Instead of the formulated “win at the end of the season then a cliffhanger something happens setting up the xpac” instead kill the dragon and then move on. That way the LW can take its time with doing good story. If need be, the expansion could even include a map in Elona before hitting the new region

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Fenom.9457 said:
    IMO cantha is sill quite far off. However, your comment about the current story gave me an idea - what if they opened the next expansion with Kralkatorrik dying? Instead of the formulated “win at the end of the season then a cliffhanger something happens setting up the xpac” instead kill the dragon and then move on. That way the LW can take its time with doing good story. If need be, the expansion could even include a map in Elona before hitting the new region

    I don't think it is TBH.
    -Zhaitan and Mordremoth are dead, Primordus and Jormag were put back to sleep, we are likely to end Kralkatorik soon.
    -I suspect most of the Elona side stories, such as Joko, the Sunspears, and the Order of Shadows, are likely to be taken care of this season.
    -When is comes to the various racial enemies, the White Mantel is gone, the Nightmare Court is basically gone, The Inquest isn't something you can ever really get rid of, and the Sons of Svanir and the Flame Legion are too isolated from the rest of the world to matter right now.
    There really isn't a whole lot going on right now in the world, outside of Elona, and as I mentioned before, the Elona thing is likely to be taken care of this season.

    If we presume this season will have as many releases, and thus, as many maps, as last season did, and look at the map of Elona, we will see pretty easily that this season could very easily take care of most of the rest of Elona quite easily. The Gandara map, and the Fortress of Jahai/Mahnkelon Waterworks/Chantry of Secrets map I outlined below are basically guaranteed given the edits to the world map they did to those areas not long ago.

    Really, there isn't much a whole lot to do besides go to Cantha, and they could mcguffin some reason why Bubbles moved down that way. As for this would start off, the Tengu would likely call us for some reason, and the first map of the expansion would be us going to the Dominion of Winds, and then, from there, going to Cantha. As least that would make the most sense to me given the Tengu's big connection to Cantha.

    This is unless they do something REALLY REALLY stupid like having Kralkatroik fly off YET AGAIN, into the Scavanger's Causeway or something, and give us YET ANOTHER mostly desert themed expansion after the last mostly desert themed expansion

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    To be honest, I would think that the next expansion would likely take us to Cantha, as I don't see them dragging out the Elona/Kralkatorik plot for much longer after this season of the living story is over.

    And I can hardly see Season 4 finishing both Joko and Kralkatorrik. It's likely that we'll end with Joko's death / imprisonment, and Expansion 3 will be Kralkatorrik.

    Expansion 4 might take us to Cantha, but I'd suspect S5 and E4 will be focused on charr, Primordus, and Jormag. Then we'll go after the DSD for the finale of GW2.

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    -Zhaitan and Mordremoth are dead, Primordus and Jormag were put back to sleep, we are likely to end Kralkatorik soon.

    The lore surrounding the Elder Dragons tells us that Primordus and Jormag can be reawoken at literally any moment. They take so long to wake up the first time due to so little magic and so few active champions, but both have had over 150 years to spawn countless champions who would no doubt be gathering magic for them to wake again.

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    -When is comes to the various racial enemies, the White Mantel is gone, the Nightmare Court is basically gone, The Inquest isn't something you can ever really get rid of, and the Sons of Svanir and the Flame Legion are too isolated from the rest of the world to matter right now.

    Nightmare Court's not really gone at all. Sons of Svanir have been causing perpetual trouble in the background since Season 1.

    There's also the Separatists/Renegades, the centaurs, and the remnants of Scarlet's alliances (Aetherblades, Molten Alliance, and Toxic Alliance are all said to still exist but went into hiding). They can become a focus at any moment, once ArenaNet wants to make them so.

    And that's not to even bring up the villain introduced in Episode 2: Kuda.

    Or the potential of new enemies coming out of the woodworks.

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    If we presume this season will have as many releases, and thus, as many maps, as last season did, and look at the map of Elona, we will see pretty easily that this season could very easily take care of most of the rest of Elona quite easily. The Gandara map, and the Fortress of Jahai/Mahnkelon Waterworks/Chantry of Secrets map I outlined below are basically guaranteed given the edits to the world map they did to those areas not long ago.

    I'm hoping Anet does this season more justice than last, and gives us 9 episodes. However, unlike Season 3, there aren't as many threats and plots to go off of.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    And I can hardly see Season 4 finishing both Joko and Kralkatorrik. It's likely that we'll end with Joko's death / imprisonment, and Expansion 3 will be Kralkatorrik.

    I could. I really don't see them doing an expansion for Kralkatorik. While Path of Fire was about stopping Balthazar, Balthazar's goal was to kill Kralkatorik and take his power, thus we ended up doing most of the things that would be expected of a Kralkatorik themed expansion. We went to Glint's lair, saw her memories, and destroyed the dragonblood spear. We met Vlast, he died, we read his memories, and went to his home of Kesho. We learned Kralkatorik's unique weakness, which is his own power. Aurene came, got dragon-napped by Balthazar, got used by Balthazar in an attempt to kill Kralkatorik, and them absorbed a ton of energy from Balthazar's death, causing her to rapidly grow. And LWS4's mastery tract is based around Aurene harnessing her new power. If I were to compare how far we were in the Kralkatorik story to that of Zhaitan and Mordremoth, we would be in Cursed Shore/Dragon Stand right about to enter Arah or Mordremoth's mind. Really, all we need to do is call up Logan and ask him to bring the Pact down here so he can use that endless army of redshirts to distract Kralkatorik's forces while we use some mcguffin to zap Kralktorik's power into Aurene.

    The lore surrounding the Elder Dragons tells us that Primordus and Jormag can be reawoken at literally any moment. They take so long to wake up the first time due to so little magic and so few active champions, but both have had over 150 years to spawn countless champions who would no doubt be gathering magic for them to wake again.

    I never said we wouldn't deal with them ever, only that they wouldn't be the next focus. I have always believed that Jormag and Pridmordus would be the last two dragons we fight, and putting them to sleep takes them off the table for the time being, and prevents people from asking the obvious question of "why are we going to Elona/Cantha to do stuff there when there are these Elder Dragons right on our door".

    IMO Jormag's expansion/living world stuff would cover the Far Shiverpseaks, Blood Legion Homelands, and Woodland Cascades areas, while Primordus's would likely take us to the Deldremor Front area(not that he would be there specifically, but rather, the path leading udnerground to where he is would be in that region. Also his connection to the Dwarves makes that an obvious choice)

    enemy faction

    I think that is vastly over stating the importance of most of those.
    -The Centaurs were driven out of Kryta back in core, with the defeat of their leader in Harathi Hinterlands. I suspect we would see more of them when we go to the Woodland Cascades, but that's about it. The Centaurs couldn't even beat Kryta on its own, with the Pact around, even less so.
    -The Separatists/Renegades are about in the same boat. They were a small group of people back in core that represented a political movement that one would expect to see when two former enemies try to mend their relations, but to have them actually become some major story level threat would be absurd.
    -Kuda is a nice callback to Crucible of Eternity, but it would be brain dead stupid to have her become a major badguy. Having her show up at some Inquest bases from time to time would be nice.
    -And yes, the Sons of Svanir are around, but isolated to the Shiverpeaks, they will get their time when appropriate, aka, during a Jormag expansion.
    -The Nightmare Court isn't gone as in "gone forever" but with the death of their founder, the raid on the main base, the death of all the people trying to take the leader spot, and the death of their leader Faolain, they are in a pretty bad spot, and not likely to recover. They will always be around OFC, but as a major thing, na.

    I'm hoping Anet does this season more justice than last, and gives us 9 episodes. However, unlike Season 3, there aren't as many threats and plots to go off of.

    I would love that too. I'm not sure where they would put all those new maps, as seen in the map I quickly made above, another 4 releases would cover just about all of the rest of Elona. There are one or two more post I could see them, like southern Istan in the bog area, but thats about it.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    I could. I really don't see them doing an expansion for Kralkatorik. While Path of Fire was about stopping Balthazar, Balthazar's goal was to kill Kralkatorik and take his power, thus we ended up doing most of the things that would be expected of a Kralkatorik themed expansion. We went to Glint's lair, saw her memories, and destroyed the dragonblood spear. We met Vlast, he died, we read his memories, and went to his home of Kesho. We learned Kralkatorik's unique weakness, which is his own power. Aurene came, got dragon-napped by Balthazar, got used by Balthazar in an attempt to kill Kralkatorik, and them absorbed a ton of energy from Balthazar's death, causing her to rapidly grow. And LWS4's mastery tract is based around Aurene harnessing her new power. If I were to compare how far we were in the Kralkatorik story to that of Zhaitan and Mordremoth, we would be in Cursed Shore/Dragon Stand right about to enter Arah or Mordremoth's mind. Really, all we need to do is call up Logan and ask him to bring the Pact down here so he can use that endless army of redshirts to distract Kralkatorik's forces while we use some mcguffin to zap Kralktorik's power into Aurene.

    You're forgetting that we still need to figure out how to neutralize Kralkatorrik without ending the world. This is a big thing that we've not even touched upon yet. If we assume Season 4 will be the same length as Season 3 (which is more likely than not though I'd prefer Seasons to be 9 episodes long regularly, as Season 3 suffered due to lack of length), then there simply will not be enough time to focus on defeating Joko, discovering how to save the world, and then making the push against Kralkatorrik. We would have to finish Joko next episode, or find out what we need to know in some super contrived Mordremoth's-weakness kind of way which is just bad writing.

    Not to mention that doesn't account for the Order of Shadows and their less-than-noble schemes, or the Elonian branch of the Order of Whispers that got hinted about in PoF, and PoF and Hall of Chains both indicate that the gods' story isn't done and I feel we'll see that culminating before we finish Kralkatorrik.

    Not to mention that an Elder Dragon is far too large a threat to serve as a mere LW Season boss, especially as Living World Seasons have since Season 2 been a "part 1 of 2" with the 2 being the following expansion. As much as I'd like for that to no longer happen, I don't expect ArenaNet will change how dramatically the LW Seasons lead into the next expansion. So however Season 4 ends, it will give a fairly obvious lead in to Expansion 3.

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    I think that is vastly over stating the importance of most of those.
    -The Centaurs were driven out of Kryta back in core, with the defeat of their leader in Harathi Hinterlands. I suspect we would see more of them when we go to the Woodland Cascades, but that's about it. The Centaurs couldn't even beat Kryta on its own, with the Pact around, even less so.
    -The Separatists/Renegades are about in the same boat. They were a small group of people back in core that represented a political movement that one would expect to see when two former enemies try to mend their relations, but to have them actually become some major story level threat would be absurd.
    -Kuda is a nice callback to Crucible of Eternity, but it would be brain dead stupid to have her become a major badguy. Having her show up at some Inquest bases from time to time would be nice.
    -And yes, the Sons of Svanir are around, but isolated to the Shiverpeaks, they will get their time when appropriate, aka, during a Jormag expansion.
    -The Nightmare Court isn't gone as in "gone forever" but with the death of their founder, the raid on the main base, the death of all the people trying to take the leader spot, and the death of their leader Faolain, they are in a pretty bad spot, and not likely to recover. They will always be around OFC, but as a major thing, na.

    Most of these points of yours are ultimately "they're isolated to Tyria". But your first post was saying how there was nothing in Tyria to draw us back. Which is it?

    As for Nightmare Court, there was no raid on their main base that crippled them - the closest thing was Twilight Arbor but that was 6 years ago now. Faolain may be dead but they came up with a new leader immediately and it should be noted that the Nightmare Court were never a fully unified group - there were dozens of splinter groups, and none of them would have suffered from Faolain's death. Not to mention that the return of focus to the Nightmare Court could also bring in Malyck, one of the few major dangling plots of Tyria.

    Other dangling plots include the human-charr peace treaty and the small thread of Bangar's wild card nature, thus bringing us to the Separatists/Renegades, and possibly the remnant Flame Legion / Molten Alliance; it should also be noted that the world map expanded to add quite a bit of charr territories as visible! And not only that but this past episode brought a lot of charr focus, including introducing the Claw of the Khan-Ur to the game. If this focus continues, then it would make sense for the story to take us north into charr territories and see through these plots.

    There's also Magdaer, the Wizard's Tower, and a few more things. All of these are things that ArenaNet can cover with the current world map, filling that out long before we can go to Cantha.

    Your reason for Cantha was:

    There really isn't a whole lot going on right now in the world, outside of Elona, and as I mentioned before, the Elona thing is likely to be taken care of this season.

    But that's simply false.

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    I would love that too. I'm not sure where they would put all those new maps, as seen in the map I quickly made above, another 4 releases would cover just about all of the rest of Elona. There are one or two more post I could see them, like southern Istan in the bog area, but thats about it.

    Your maps are fairly large for LW releases, they should be reduced by about 10%; and your layout works on the assumption that we restrict ourselves to Elona. However Joko's plan is to assault Tyria, and that opens up the possibility of maps in Central Tyria region for S4 as well. Furthermore, your layout is perfectly spacing things so that they're spread out just enough that no map can fit inbetween. When in reality, we could easily have maps that border others - be they bordering PoF maps or other S4 maps.

  • @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    To be honest, I would think that the next expansion would likely take us to Cantha, as I don't see them dragging out the Elona/Kralkatorik plot for much longer after this season of the living story is over.

    I think so too, Kral's story would end this season , i don't see ANet draggggg him so long. and if so , i have no idea where he is heading to in next expansion.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2018

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    You're forgetting that we still need to figure out how to neutralize Kralkatorrik without ending the world. This is a big thing that we've not even touched upon yet.

    Not really. Balthazar used Aurene's power to almost kill Kralkatorik, since Kralkatorik's weakness is his own power. And after having absorbed some of Balthazar's magic, and having aged, and the whole mastery for this season being "Aurene learning how to use her new powers" the solution is an obvious one. We use a device like Balthazar's to suck Kralkatorik's power into Aurene, so she can become the new Elder Dragon, but a good one, like Glint's super duper master plan. We have not only Taimi, but the Full Metal Alchemist Brothers, not to mention their research on Kralkatorik to boot, to make such a device to boot.

    We would have to finish Joko next episode.... Not to mention that doesn't account for the Order of Shadows and their less-than-noble schemes, or the Elonian branch of the Order of Whispers

    Na, all three stories can easily be worked on together, much like how this newest episode was about stopping Joko, but the Full Metal Brothers we recuse mention having backed up all of their data on Kralkatorik at the end. Other Elona storylines like the Order of Shadows, and the rebirth of the Sunspears would naturally happen alongside the releases for Gandara and Jahai. We get the Sunsepars from PoF, and the Istani Sunspears, to meet up, and attack Gandara to lite the fuse of major rebellion against Joko in Kourna. We will meet up and deal with the conflict between the Shadows and Whispers when we go around Jahai, etc. etc. I find it unlikely we would ever actually depose of Joko, of witness the full rebirth of the Sunspears, or see the full destruction or re-assimilation of the Shadows/Whispers. All of those are storylines far too long spanning to ever fully play out in-game. The Shadow's agents themselves even state this back in PoF, when you get to Vabbi, and see how devoted the people are to Joko, the Shadows agents tell you to not to try to upset the balance because such a change can't happen instantly, it has to be gradual, something we would just see the fruits of when the game would naturally close down.

    Not to mention that an Elder Dragon is far too large a threat to serve as a mere LW Season boss

    The only alternative is that he flies off for the 4th time, and we spend a whole expansion slogging through Branded in an area that has nothing to do with him, just for the sake of having an expansion to fight him in. Where would he go anyways? Scavanger's Causeway? Dazalana? Two areas that are mostly desert and badlands... like the last expansion, which had desert and badlands, and where we got end game Branded enemies all over the place. Except this time it wouldn't have Glint, Vlast, or anything else connecting to Kralkatorik.

    Most of these points of yours are ultimately "they're isolated to Tyria". But your first post was saying how there was nothing in Tyria to draw us back. Which is it?

    Both and neither. You seem to be conflating my point on the dragons being asleep meaning we have little reason to go back to Tyria, with the wholly separate point that most of these other factions aren't large enough to be a major focus, or, in cases like the sons of Svanir, would only have their focus much later like during a Jormag Expansion. See, groups like the Separatists, the Renegades, the Centaurs, the remnants of the Toxic and Molten Alliances, the Nightmare Court, etc., all exist to serve the same purpose the Thalmor did in Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. They are a political entity that exists because they would logically exist, but that doesn't mean they are, or should, be the major focus of a narrative. They are logical world building tools to flesh out the universe beyond the main story, but exist no more to be some big living world season narrative the farmer Joe in Shaemoor is.

    Not to mention, the Separatists, like the bandits, were being funded by Caudecus as part of his "master plan" to bring down the queen, and he is now dead. Likewise, the leader of the Renegades, Ajax Anvilburn, was killed by the Vigil. The centaur armies were pushed out of Kryta by the Seraph, and their leader, Ulgoth the Mighty, was also killed. And remnants of factions like the Toxic and Molten Alliances will continue to exist for years to come, much like the death of the Elder Dragons doesn't cause all their minion to just drop dead, but, at the same time, they stop being a major threat. All these things you mentioned already had perfectly fine narrative ends, but people seem desperate to resurrect the dead over and over like the Enclave in the Fallout games. Just because something isn't gone from the universe totally and wholly doesn't mean its going to be big.

    As for Nightmare Court, there was no raid on their main base that crippled them - the closest thing was Twilight Arbor but that was 6 years ago now.

    And we literally never see them having fully recovered after that(especially after we kill all the people there trying to take leadership after the first raid), with only a few scattered groups here and there.

    There's also Magdaer, the Wizard's Tower, and a few more things. All of these are things that ArenaNet can cover with the current world map, filling that out long before we can go to Cantha.

    The Wizard's Tower and Magdaer are older, and harder dropped, plot threads then Malyck, and people really need to stop trying to squeeze water from stones out of there. Might as well bring up Rytlok trying the Searing Ritual again, or the crown he was supposed to return to the humans, or Marjory's ghost blade,

    But that's simply false.

    Its really not unless you try to find larger narratives where there are none.

    Your maps are fairly large for LW releases

    The maps I made are literally the same size as the Domain of Istan, and Sandswept Isles maps, I even cut out some of the water areas around them, so they are actually smaller then the overall size of the last two Living World maps. PoF adding mounts has allowed Anet to make bigger maps, that are a bit more spread out, compared to previous ones.

    However Joko's plan is to assault Tyria

    And we literally just destroyed the gate network he was using to do so, after having destroyed the OTHER gate network he was using to do so. How many of these gate networks does he have again?

    Furthermore, your layout is perfectly spacing things so that they're spread out just enough that no map can fit inbetween.

    Anet doesn't care about about 100% boxing in the whole game world, we saw this with release, with past living story maps, with Heart of Thorns, even with the two living story maps we have seen already for this season. Anet just does a "best of" hits collection. They basically destroyed any chance of seeing the area between the Domain of Istan, and The First city, with Daybreak, its much too small for a typical LW map.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭

    From memory on the Vigil storyline, Ajax Anvilburn was a leader of the Renegades, and a particularly effective one because he had a finer grasp of tactics than most, but the renegades existed before him and can be presumed to continue to exist after he's gone.

    There was prerelease information suggesting that Bangar wasn't too happy about the truce, although he isn't in a position to do anything about it overtly (it's Smodur's theater of battle and therefore Smodur's call). Bangar going renegade and causing a Blood Legion civil war could well make for a side-plot comparable to the Caudecus arc at some point, particularly if the story heads north.

    Can't say for sure that's actually in the plans, but if you're going to play the card that the Separatists were only a credible threat because of Caudecus' backing, the possibility does have to be considered that the Renegades also have a secret backer.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    Not really. Balthazar used Aurene's power to almost kill Kralkatorik, since Kralkatorik's weakness is his own power. And after having absorbed some of Balthazar's magic, and having aged, and the whole mastery for this season being "Aurene learning how to use her new powers" the solution is an obvious one. We use a device like Balthazar's to suck Kralkatorik's power into Aurene, so she can become the new Elder Dragon, but a good one, like Glint's super duper master plan. We have not only Taimi, but the Full Metal Alchemist Brothers, not to mention their research on Kralkatorik to boot, to make such a device to boot.

    You're forgetting the whole without ending the world part.

    We know how to kill Kralkatorrik. But we don't know how to prevent the world from dying once we do.

    And there's no guarantee that Aurene becoming a new Elder Dragon would save the world if we also kill another Elder Dragon. Just simply feeding Aurene tons of magic isn't gonna save the world. Episode 5 showed that the world would die not solely from excess magic, but The All being imbalanced and that one more dragon death would cause that imbalance to be unfixable. We're not even certain it can be fixed now.

    Na, all three stories can easily be worked on together, much like how this newest episode was about stopping Joko, but the Full Metal Brothers we recuse mention having backed up all of their data on Kralkatorik at the end. Other Elona storylines like the Order of Shadows, and the rebirth of the Sunspears would naturally happen alongside the releases for Gandara and Jahai. We get the Sunsepars from PoF, and the Istani Sunspears, to meet up, and attack Gandara to lite the fuse of major rebellion against Joko in Kourna. We will meet up and deal with the conflict between the Shadows and Whispers when we go around Jahai, etc. etc. I find it unlikely we would ever actually depose of Joko, of witness the full rebirth of the Sunspears, or see the full destruction or re-assimilation of the Shadows/Whispers. All of those are storylines far too long spanning to ever fully play out in-game. The Shadow's agents themselves even state this back in PoF, when you get to Vabbi, and see how devoted the people are to Joko, the Shadows agents tell you to not to try to upset the balance because such a change can't happen instantly, it has to be gradual, something we would just see the fruits of when the game would naturally close down.

    And that's how you spell a rushed, and ultimately bad, story telling. To cramp everything happening in rapid procession. That's the problem Season 3 had.

    Even if you can manage to solve all those plots in four releases, that won't be good writing.

    And you're missing quite a bit, in all honesty. The Shadows agents do say that it has to be gradual, but they're also playing both sides of the board game. Their goal isn't the defeat of Joko, even if they pronounce such. Their goal is as of yet unknown - they aid Joko as much as they oppose him. That's more than a single episode's worth of content right there. And Joko's going to be more than one or two more, especially since he's targeting Central Tyria.

    The only alternative is that he flies off for the 4th time, and we spend a whole expansion slogging through Branded in an area that has nothing to do with him, just for the sake of having an expansion to fight him in. Where would he go anyways? Scavanger's Causeway? Dazalana? Two areas that are mostly desert and badlands... like the last expansion, which had desert and badlands, and where we got end game Branded enemies all over the place. Except this time it wouldn't have Glint, Vlast, or anything else connecting to Kralkatorik.

    Not really. He could easily stay put and the Season 4 maps never touch him, with the next expansion largely being in Kourna. It largely depends on where the maps go, and how large the season is. And whether the Season 4 remains in Elona, or returns to Tyria as Joko's goals suggest. Furthermore, there's be more places to go than Kourna - there are bits of Vabbi, for example, and the Sulforous Wastes still worth exploring.

    But that doesn't change that every LW season has, thus far, been a build up into the next expansion while the expansion ends the plot. So Expansion 3 will be completing the story of Season 4.

    Both and neither. You seem to be conflating my point on the dragons being asleep meaning we have little reason to go back to Tyria, with the wholly separate point that most of these other factions aren't large enough to be a major focus, or, in cases like the sons of Svanir, would only have their focus much later like during a Jormag Expansion. See, groups like the Separatists, the Renegades, the Centaurs, the remnants of the Toxic and Molten Alliances, the Nightmare Court, etc., all exist to serve the same purpose the Thalmor did in Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. They are a political entity that exists because they would logically exist, but that doesn't mean they are, or should, be the major focus of a narrative. They are logical world building tools to flesh out the universe beyond the main story, but exist no more to be some big living world season narrative the farmer Joe in Shaemoor is.

    Not to mention, the Separatists, like the bandits, were being funded by Caudecus as part of his "master plan" to bring down the queen, and he is now dead. Likewise, the leader of the Renegades, Ajax Anvilburn, was killed by the Vigil. The centaur armies were pushed out of Kryta by the Seraph, and their leader, Ulgoth the Mighty, was also killed. And remnants of factions like the Toxic and Molten Alliances will continue to exist for years to come, much like the death of the Elder Dragons doesn't cause all their minion to just drop dead, but, at the same time, they stop being a major threat. All these things you mentioned already had perfectly fine narrative ends, but people seem desperate to resurrect the dead over and over like the Enclave in the Fallout games. Just because something isn't gone from the universe totally and wholly doesn't mean its going to be big.

    The whole human-charr peace treaty is a really freaking huge dangling plot thread that exists and is far from a "small threat" topic. It's as large, if not larger, than the whole White Mantle situation, and we had half a season and four raids dedicated to that plot.

    Furthermore, Separatists were not funded solely by Caudecus - Caudecus did support and ally with them but he was not the de facto leader of Separatists. There's a pretty big difference. And as Drax said, Ajax was not the sole leader or founder of the Renegades. He had taken over the Renegades for a very short time - they existed before him, and they existed after him. All his presence did was change their tactics quite a bit, and made them more effective while he lived. A new leader can easily show up to present a bigger threat than before, and we have that pretty heavy handed suggestion that Bangar may be secretly backing the Renegades.

    Ulgoth died in 1325 AE. However, in Season 2 - 1327 AE - Queen Jennah makes a comment at The World Summit suggesting that the centaurs are still at Divinity's Reach's front gates. This means that the centaurs were NOT pushed out of Kryta. This goes double since we see them not very far from DR in Lake Doric.

    And I would disagree that remnants will "continue to exist for years" given that we've completely wiped out every White Mantle now. There are no White Mantle remnants - the last remnants were removed in Episode 6. And we're not talking "remnants". We never encountered the leaders of the Molten Alliance or Toxic Alliance, and Mai Trin is still out there as well. That's not remnants, that's just a retreated enemy. No different than the White Mantle after War in Kryta or Flame Legion after Kalla's rebellion - they weren't remnants then, just retreated. Except they lost their then leader while these groups still have theirs.

    And we literally never see them having fully recovered after that(especially after we kill all the people there trying to take leadership after the first raid), with only a few scattered groups here and there.

    Except for their literally unphased groups in Mount Maelstrom and Sparkfly Fen, and the group that became the Toxic Alliance also being in large numbers.

    Even then, Faolain hadn't suffered so much as to be never heard of again - it just happened that her preparations were stopped by Mordremoth's arrival.

    The maps I made are literally the same size as the Domain of Istan, and Sandswept Isles maps, I even cut out some of the water areas around them, so they are actually smaller then the overall size of the last two Living World maps. PoF adding mounts has allowed Anet to make bigger maps, that are a bit more spread out, compared to previous ones.

    I actually compared and they're slightly larger. Unless you're counting the literally zero content water as part of the map.

    And we literally just destroyed the gate network he was using to do so, after having destroyed the OTHER gate network he was using to do so. How many of these gate networks does he have again?

    You know there are more methods of transport than asura gates, right?

    And he does have an army of Awakened Inquest. Who's to say they cannot build him a new gate hub?

    Anet doesn't care about about 100% boxing in the whole game world, we saw this with release, with past living story maps, with Heart of Thorns, even with the two living story maps we have seen already for this season. Anet just does a "best of" hits collection. They basically destroyed any chance of seeing the area between the Domain of Istan, and The First city, with Daybreak, its much too small for a typical LW map.

    Not really. Look at the map. There are literally 7 maps that are not adjacent to other maps. In order of release: Southsun Cove, Ember Bay, Bastion of the Penitent, Draconis Mons, Domain of Vabbi, Domain of Istan, Sandswept Isles.

    Five of those seven maps are islands. And one is a raid.

    They may not fill in every nook and cranny, but by in large, they don't have too-small-for-another-map gap between their maps. Not even the gap between Sparkly Fen and Lornar's Pass is too small for a new map, albeit the map would be small like Bloodstone Fen.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭

    Last season we had a machine that solved our dragon problem in one episode, so assuming that we need two seasons to figure out how to keep the world safe from kralk’s death is kind of irrelevant. The machine was destroyed but it just goes to show that using any kind of logic on what you think should happen doesn’t really apply when they can create some other easy solution to the problem. We assume Aurene isn’t strong or old enough to take Kralks magic but that doesn’t mean by the end of this season she won’t.

    They could, especially if the leaks were true and they do plan on exploring the legion homelands, but I don’t see them dragging Kralkatorrik out for a second expansion when he was already kind of the focus for this one.

    In a lot of your arguments I see you applying real world logic as the basis for what you think is going to happen in the game, but anything can happen. Lol

    I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we saved two inquest members and one says he has a lot of data on Kralkatorrik. I think that data will be more crucial to figuring out out Kralkatorrik problem than them just being there to solve our scarab plague problem. One Audra solved our last elder dragon problem, and now we have three working together. I see Joko being the middle boss of the season with Kralkatorrik being the final similar to last season and a few hints at the next expansion tossed into the last few patches.

    That doesn’t necessarily mean Cantha and the legion lands maps have been changed slightly which supports the expansion there, but I also think they’re planning on this season being s but longer.

    The only alternative I see is that you are correct about Kralkatorrik being the next expansion and that this episode will be much shorter with the expansion sooner and thus it ties in a little more with the legion maps.

    Whatever happens, I still don’t see Joko being the central focus for the remainder of the season given the pace at which were focusing on him but I suppose that could change at any given episode. The next will undoubtedly deal with Joko and the plague but it could wind up being another story filler with no resolution like this episode to draw out the plot a little longer.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Next Expacs will probably be:

    One in the Bloodlegion Homelands/Shivering Mountains. Charr oriented. Dragon would be probably Kalk.

    One in Cantha: Not Dragon Oriented but will lead into bubbles introduction via LS.

    One Underwater: Complete underwater revamp and improvement.
    Masteries concentrate on movement underwater, currents, flow, night vision etc.
    Dragon is bubbles.

    One in the Isles of Janthir: Probably the last expac.
    Bad guy will probably be the ultimate big bady.
    You destroy him via Aurene which has tranquilized all other remaining Elder dragons to this point and absorbed their power. After that you established balance again in the World.

    This conclusion is probably 8 to 10 years from now. After that Anet can Launch a GW3 with totally new stuff.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    You're forgetting the whole without ending the world part.

    No I'm not actually. The dragons would end the world because their deaths give off massive amounts of magical energy, which upsets the balance. Why would using a device to TRANSFER Kralkatorik's energy to Aurene release the energy that would destroy the world? Not to mention we have already seen, via the mastery tract, that Aurene already has the ability to not only absorb magic, but also transfer that power to others. All she needs to do is hit the critical mass stage to start doing it full time Elder Dragon style. I also made no comment on Elder Dragons past Kralkatorik either. I only stated we could end him right now fairly easily.

    Even if you can manage to solve all those plots in four releases

    Here is the thing, they wouldn't be solved, and they SHOULDN'T be solved, because things like usurping a dictator who has ruled for hundreds of years, reforming what was a large religious/military order, and bridging a gap between two splinter groups that came from the same source, aren't things that can be solved in a year or two's time. At most, we should get the ball rolling on these things, and leave Elona knowing its heading to a better path.

    Not really. He could easily stay put and the Season 4 maps never touch him, with the next expansion largely being in Kourna.

    Then where would LWS4 be? Joko is attempting to invade Tyira... but we aren't going to do anything to actually hinder his operations like going after the two largest and most well defended fortresses in Elona, aka Gandara and Jahai? Are you suggesting the Pact Commander is going to go full on stupid and waste his time putting out the brush fires of Joko's invasions into new maps in Central Tyria... which would be miles away from any major population center(except DR) at this point with how built out the maps are due to all the previous releases we have had in central Tyira, and thus, Joko would have no reason to be there? Not to mention, we already see the local garrisons/armies defend the major cities, leaving us free to go chase down Joko in Elona itself.

    The whole human-charr peace treaty is a really freaking huge dangling plot thread

    No it isn't. The whole Vigil order storyline was about making sure it succeeded, and, after that storyline, we see Charr and humans working together and all that jazz, showing it did succeed. Its literally not a thing at this point.

    Furthermore, Separatists were not funded solely by Caudecus

    They don't need to be. He was, as far as we have been shown, their primary investor, and the one directing their actions. Just like he was behind most everything going on in Kryta such as the Centaur war, the bandits, the circus. Like it or not, Anet pinned basically all "evil" human activities on him during LWS3, and even have an achievement to collect journal pages and notes that proves he is.

    Ulgoth died in 1325 AE. However, in Season 2 - 1327 AE - Queen Jennah makes a comment at The World Summit suggesting that the centaurs are still at Divinity's Reach's front gates.

    And as we see in LWs3, there are some centaur bands near Divinities Reach, in the Lake Doric area, due to the actions of Caudecus/White Mantel, but its also mentioned that the bulk of the centaur army had been driven into the Harathi Hitherlands and back into their homelands. You seem to have this notion that unless something has been stopped 100%, that means it is still going on full force. That isn't how reality works. Pushing the centaur army back into their homelands, and killing their leader, isn't going to just magically make all Centaurs everywhere stop making attacks against the humans, but it also doesn't mean they are the same kind of problem they once were.

    And I would disagree that remnants will "continue to exist for years" given that we've completely wiped out every White Mantle now.

    No, we really haven't. We got rid of the last effective leadership of the Mantle back in episode 6, but people with Mantel ideology are still around, and will likely continue to make terrorist actions against Kryta for years to come, they just aren't an effective organization at this point.

    We never encountered the leaders of the Molten Alliance or Toxic Alliance, and Mai Trin is still out there as well.

    Ahh yes the "I'll get you next time Gadget!" type of villainy. No thanks. You don't need to kill all the leaders to ruin an organization to the point of irrelevancy. Especially when those factions were literally nothing but pawns for Scarlet that were only meant to be experiments and not lasting alliances.

    Except for their literally unphased groups in Mount Maelstrom and Sparkfly Fen, and the group that became the Toxic Alliance also being in large numbers.

    You mean the relatively small bases in both locations that pale in comparison to their bases back near the Grove? And the Toxic alliance was mostly Krait, with Nightmare Court assisting them. Both of which really go to show how on hard times/reduced they were, and forced to make such alliances, in order to make any sort of progress.

    I actually compared and they're slightly larger.

    I actually made them, and they're slightly smaller.

    You know there are more methods of transport than asura gates, right? And he does have an army of Awakened Inquest. Who's to say they cannot build him a new gate hub?

    If he had the ability to build a new gate hub, why would he still be using the gate hub in places like The First City, and Sandsweapt Isles, when he could be using ones built into places like Gandara and Jahai, which would be 20 times more secure?

    Not really. Look at the map.

    I have, there are no less then 10 gaps created by maps not being all perfectly boxed right next to each other.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Next Expacs will probably be:

    One in the Bloodlegion Homelands/Shivering Mountains. Charr oriented. Dragon would be probably Kalk.

    One in Cantha: Not Dragon Oriented but will lead into bubbles introduction via LS.

    One Underwater: Complete underwater revamp and improvement.
    Masteries concentrate on movement underwater, currents, flow, night vision etc.
    Dragon is bubbles.

    One in the Isles of Janthir: Probably the last expac.
    Bad guy will probably be the ultimate big bady.
    You destroy him via Aurene which has tranquilized all other remaining Elder dragons to this point and absorbed their power. After that you established balance again in the World.

    This conclusion is probably 8 to 10 years from now. After that Anet can Launch a GW3 with totally new stuff.

    I like it up until GW3. I don't get why people expect this, the era or sequel after sequel is mostly gone for MMOs, replaced instead with releasing one game and updating it as long as they can, which is potentially decades. Gaming is too young in history to say how long the longest games will last, but WoW is probably the best example at around 15 years old with no signs of stopping. So after dragons, villains will come out of the woodwork for all eternity as in most successful MMOs that last decades or however long. For all we know, they could last for a century (unlikely but you get my point)

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Next Expacs will probably be:

    One in the Bloodlegion Homelands/Shivering Mountains. Charr oriented. Dragon would be probably Kalk.

    One in Cantha: Not Dragon Oriented but will lead into bubbles introduction via LS.

    One Underwater: Complete underwater revamp and improvement.
    Masteries concentrate on movement underwater, currents, flow, night vision etc.
    Dragon is bubbles.

    One in the Isles of Janthir: Probably the last expac.
    Bad guy will probably be the ultimate big bady.
    You destroy him via Aurene which has tranquilized all other remaining Elder dragons to this point and absorbed their power. After that you established balance again in the World.

    This conclusion is probably 8 to 10 years from now. After that Anet can Launch a GW3 with totally new stuff.

    I like it up until GW3. I don't get why people expect this, the era or sequel after sequel is mostly gone for MMOs, replaced instead with releasing one game and updating it as long as they can, which is potentially decades. Gaming is too young in history to say how long the longest games will last, but WoW is probably the best example at around 15 years old with no signs of stopping. So after dragons, villains will come out of the woodwork for all eternity as in most successful MMOs that last decades or however long. For all we know, they could last for a century (unlikely but you get my point)

    It was just a rough estimate. Personally i am not a "I want GW3" person. Depending on the engine and the techbical issues they might make a third installement. But in my opinion they could just continue the work they are doing now. Its a good game from the start and even better now.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Next Expacs will probably be:

    One in the Bloodlegion Homelands/Shivering Mountains. Charr oriented. Dragon would be probably Kalk.

    One in Cantha: Not Dragon Oriented but will lead into bubbles introduction via LS.

    One Underwater: Complete underwater revamp and improvement.
    Masteries concentrate on movement underwater, currents, flow, night vision etc.
    Dragon is bubbles.

    One in the Isles of Janthir: Probably the last expac.
    Bad guy will probably be the ultimate big bady.
    You destroy him via Aurene which has tranquilized all other remaining Elder dragons to this point and absorbed their power. After that you established balance again in the World.

    This conclusion is probably 8 to 10 years from now. After that Anet can Launch a GW3 with totally new stuff.

    I like it up until GW3. I don't get why people expect this, the era or sequel after sequel is mostly gone for MMOs, replaced instead with releasing one game and updating it as long as they can, which is potentially decades. Gaming is too young in history to say how long the longest games will last, but WoW is probably the best example at around 15 years old with no signs of stopping. So after dragons, villains will come out of the woodwork for all eternity as in most successful MMOs that last decades or however long. For all we know, they could last for a century (unlikely but you get my point)

    It was just a rough estimate. Personally i am not a "I want GW3" person. Depending on the engine and the techbical issues they might make a third installement. But in my opinion they could just continue the work they are doing now. Its a good game from the start and even better now.

    they will probably do an engine port instead of a next installment if engine issues become to bad

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    Last season we had a machine that solved our dragon problem in one episode, so assuming that we need two seasons to figure out how to keep the world safe from kralk’s death is kind of irrelevant.

    The machine didn't solve the problem. The entire point was that while the machine could kill the two dragons, it would do so in a way that would release a catastrophic surge of magic that would destroy Tyria. That's not a solution, that's MAD.

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    Here is the thing, they wouldn't be solved, and they SHOULDN'T be solved, because things like usurping a dictator who has ruled for hundreds of years, reforming what was a large religious/military order, and bridging a gap between two splinter groups that came from the same source, aren't things that can be solved in a year or two's time. At most, we should get the ball rolling on these things, and leave Elona knowing its heading to a better path.

    So, how many times in Guild Wars have we left a situation knowing it's heading to a better path, and come back later to find that no, if anything it's gotten worse?

    In the Guild Wars franchise, it's never safe to leave a problem until you've torn it out by the root and burned it. Of course, sometimes you have to, because you have a bigger, more pressing problem to deal with elsewhere. But years of experience with the franchise have shown that you can never assume that you've passed a tipping point and the situation will get better on its own without the continued intervention of the PC.

<13
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