Can Joko be branded?

Can he? Wonder what would happen if he were and what the repercussions of it would be with him already having such a large force. Was really hoping to get some more lore on him this episode but I guess not.

Seems odd there isn’t any branded stuff happening in Sandswept with it being right across from where Kralkatorrik is currently perched given Istan was seeing meteors and such at the same or further distance.

I admit to hoping for some meteors too. I guess it would have been overkill to have too much stuff going in that map as it pretty much works as it is right now.

The Joko being Branded could be an interesting development should it be possible.

I'm not entirely sure what the rules of being branded are. It could very well be Will power, exposure to Kralkatorrik's searing presence, or what have you.

Lore wise, General Alomora Soulkeeper lost her warband to Kralkatorrik. What happened was he flew overhead during a battle for Ebonhawk and caused that huge brand gouge. Members of her warband had became warped and turned into crystalline monsters while the ground melted and swirled. But she and a few others did not. She was forced to put her warband down.

In another instance... there was a Charr who was sent to investigate the mountain that was actually that damned dragon. It killed lots of people, blew him a good distance and broke a lot of his bones with a flap of its wings. And then breathed on him. His breath was described to be blistering hot if I remembered, and that branded him.

He could become branded, as we see Awakened become branded in Daybreak (if and only if you allied Amnoon with the Awakened).

As for repercussions? Most creatures who become branded, no matter how strong and powerful, will become mindless unless the dragon dictates otherwise. So Joko could easily just become a mindless minion, or become a dragon lieutenant. In the case of the former, the enthralled state of Elonians would likely believe that Joko had become corrupted on purpose and still follow him.

Though I'm curious how such would affect his ability to command Awakened who would otherwise fight him like Lonai and Koss.

And yeah, I feel it's weird there's no branded meteorites (even if we couldn't mine them) in Sandswept Isles. I guess Kralkatorrik isn't looking to the northwest and doesn't care about a giant cube that's housing a ton of his minions (or maybe he feels those minions can handle the situation themselves).

@"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497": Devs had confirmed that Almorra was "just outside" the brand's influence (we can see the edge is a little mottled, especially in the PoF zones). No one survived while being within the brand upon its formation. The hero challenge which marks the area of Almorra's warband's death is also on the edge. Willpower only seems to have to do with Jormag's and Mordremoth's corruption - and in limited circumstances at that (direct corruption from them and willpower won't help, however Jormag tends to take "willing converts" over forceful ones, but will try to bend victims' minds to wanting his power, so willpower comes in there; with Mordremoth willpower only had an influence on sylvari facing his Call).

Given that the dragons tend to make champions out of those who were impressive and/or held higher station before being corrupted, I would be VERY surprised if a branded Joko was made a mindless minion.

Kralkatorrik just got a bunch of Zhaitan and Mordremoth juice in the magic Balthazar took from the dragons, and so he now has minions that can do dark, mind, nature and death magics, brand the dead, have a hive mind, have minions that can brand themselves, etc.

Joko probably had time to study how to protect himself from the Brand like djinn do, since he seems to be very good at picking other people's magic. He probably took how to make Chaos Rift from nightfall demons.

So, while Kralkatorrik can brand awakened, I'm guessing that to brand Joko he would have to be caught by surprise and unprepared.

@"MithranArkanere.8957" said:Kralkatorrik just got a bunch of Zhaitan and Mordremoth juice in the magic Balthazar took from the dragons, and so he now has minions that can do dark, mind, nature and death magics, brand the dead, have a hive mind, have minions that can brand themselves, etc.

Kralkatorrik's minions always had a hive mind and could always brand other creatures (the former is brought up in Edge of Destiny, and with every other Elder Dragon; the latter is brought up in various hearts and events around the Dragonbrand in Ascalon). It's not even clear if Kralkatorrik couldn't brand the dead before, tbh, given that Jormag could.

In the Communications Lab of Rata Primus where they're studying the hive minds of the branded, Taimi only asks "is this because of eating Mordremoth's magic?" because she doesn't know one way or another.

@"MithranArkanere.8957" said:Joko probably had time to study how to protect himself from the Brand like djinn do, since he seems to be very good at picking other people's magic. He probably took how to make Chaos Rift from nightfall demons.

That's unlikely. His and Elona-proper's first encounter with branded began only shortly after Season 3 Episode 2 (Kralkatorrik is said to have flown south after absorbing magic from Mordremoth, however in Episode 2 Taimi says there's "no changes" with Kralkatorrik indicating no flight at that point). So there would be little time, at best, before Joko was distracted with working with Balthazar and getting subsequently imprisoned. And since he came back, his focus has been on the Inquest and Scarab Plague, more than the branded.

And... he doesn't create Chaos Rifts portals either. No indication he ever has, tbh. Not that he really could since the demons only could due to The Shadow Nexus.

It's not even clear if Kralkatorrik couldn't brand the dead before, tbh, given that Jormag could.

where did jormag corrupt a dead thing?

also a fun little detail in the cinematic at the end of PoF. kralk corrupts 2 devourers, 1 living and the other dead. the living one turns into a regular branded while the dead one turns into a death touched branded insinuating the death magic was involved

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

And... he doesn't create Chaos Rifts portals either. No indication he ever has, tbh. Not that he really could since the demons only could due to The Shadow Nexus.

I think Mithran means the Scourge elite, which the flavour text says makes a portal to the Realm of Torment.Still not chaos rifts, though.

@"derd.6413" said:

where did jormag corrupt a dead thing?

A couple places, although, granted, it's an inference. In Edge of Destiny, we get this description of an icebrood: "She knew this man, though his face was smashed, his nose canted to one side, his teeth gone where some great fist had struck him. His flesh was sealed in ice." Other icebrood, in game, clearly show exposed skulls and rib cages, and indeed, looking at the spectrum from Sons of Svanir to the Icebrood Colossus, it seems like the nature of Jormag's corruption is to slowly replace the flesh with ice. Unless there's some reason that the corruption can only take root in a living body but doesn't require the body to live after that point, it's not a stretch to think that the dead can be corrupted.

Regarding the hive mind, I'm not so quick to write Taimi off. The notion that all Elder Dragons have one has always been an assumption on our part, after all. We know that the destroyers used one, at least before Primordus woke up. Trahearne and the Pale Tree told us that Zhaitan knew what it's minions knew, but didn't venture a guess as to how the mechanism worked, and we also know that the entire risen fleet felt it when Captain Whiting died, and that Zhaitan felt it when an Eye or Mouth died. We know that the icebrood ceased to recognize the Dragonspawn as one of their own when it's mental aura was suppressed, and we know that Mordremoth seemed to carry on separate telepathic conversations with every sylvari in the jungle, if not beyond. That's enough to conclude that at least four of the dragons have some sort of mental connection to their minions, or their minions to each other, and the simplest explanation was that they all had hive minds of the same nature. But it's not the only possible explanation.

@"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:Regarding the hive mind, I'm not so quick to write Taimi off. The notion that all Elder Dragons have one has always been an assumption on our part, after all. We know that the destroyers used one, at least before Primordus woke up. Trahearne and the Pale Tree told us that Zhaitan knew what it's minions knew, but didn't venture a guess as to how the mechanism worked, and we also know that the entire risen fleet felt it when Captain Whiting died, and that Zhaitan felt it when an Eye or Mouth died. We know that the icebrood ceased to recognize the Dragonspawn as one of their own when it's mental aura was suppressed, and we know that Mordremoth seemed to carry on separate telepathic conversations with every sylvari in the jungle, if not beyond. That's enough to conclude that at least four of the dragons have some sort of mental connection to their minions, or their minions to each other, and the simplest explanation was that they all had hive minds of the same nature. But it's not the only possible explanation.

On top of that, in Edge of Destiny, Kralkatorrik mentally commands his branded to assault Snaff specifically. That marks five out of six.

Though I would say that Mordremoth definitely had a different kind of hive mind - in Heart of Thorns, we "saw" (more accurately, were told through pieces and parts never a whole) how he had micromanaged his direct whispers into sylvari minds via the Dream. With other Elder Dragons, it seems to be a one-way knowledge inference (minion to dragon), one-way will inference (dragon to minion), and a two-way connection of "do you serve the dragon?" (minion to minion).

I suppose that's what was being referred to in the Comms Lab, with us seeing two minions attacking the same direction when one sees a threat, but still they had hive minds before.

Ofcourse he can just take out a branding iron and mark him =P

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Though I would say that Mordremoth definitely had a different kind of hive mind - in Heart of Thorns, we "saw" (more accurately, were told through pieces and parts never a whole) how he had micromanaged his direct whispers into sylvari minds via the Dream. With other Elder Dragons, it seems to be a one-way knowledge inference (minion to dragon), one-way will inference (dragon to minion), and a two-way connection of "do you serve the dragon?" (minion to minion).This is what I took away from it as well.

All of the Elder Dragons and their minions have a hive mind of sorts, but it isn't a true hive mind as the term is traditionally used. The Elder Dragons can send strong "wills" to the collective, but generally have to use intermediaries like the Eyes of Zhaitan, and dragon champions, to really "command" forces in a more organized fashion.

Mordremoth, being far more a mental creature rather then a psychical one, despite the fact its "body" was probably the largest of all the Elder Dragons in total mass, was closer to a true hive mind because it could literally have its mind in its minions directly.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Can he? Wonder what would happen if he were and what the repercussions of it would be with him already having such a large force. Was really hoping to get some more lore on him this episode but I guess not.

Seems odd there isn’t any branded stuff happening in Sandswept with it being right across from where Kralkatorrik is currently perched given Istan was seeing meteors and such at the same or further distance.

Joko is under the influence of something.

Joko might actually be protected somehow. I mean, Balthy went through all of the trouble to imprison Joko rather than Brand him and whatnot. If a God couldn't "convert him", not too sure an Elder Dragon could either? Joko is definitely not just your average Awakened after all.

@Oglaf.1074 said:

Joko might actually be protected somehow. I mean, Balthy went through all of the trouble to imprison Joko rather than Brand him and whatnot.

why would balt brand joko? he'd be giving his enemy a powerful minion.

also converting ppl into forged seems to be a more argues process then the conversion by dragon corruption

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

Joko might actually be protected somehow. I mean, Balthy went through all of the trouble to imprison Joko rather than Brand him and whatnot.

Because if Balthy originally had a deal with Joko to use his Awakened to bolster his own forces but it fell through. Had he Forge'd Joko he would've had control of the Awakened army (much like the Commander does). The big female Forged you fight as a repeated bossfight reveals that she had no choice in the matter - becoming Forged seems to be something that can be forced onto you, much like becoming a Dragon Minion or Awakened. So a Forged Joko would be 110% loyal to Balthy much like her (or, again, a dragon minion).

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

Joko might actually be protected somehow. I mean, Balthy went through all of the trouble to imprison Joko rather than Brand him and whatnot.

branding refers to corruption by kralkatorik specifically.

also to be turned into a forged is to have your soul imbued into an armor. joko being a lich (if we're going by classical lich rules) would make this extremely dificult without knowing the location of his phylactery which i doubt joko hasn't hidden somewhere and would tell anybody about.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

And yeah, I feel it's weird there's no branded meteorites (even if we couldn't mine them) in Sandswept Isles. I guess Kralkatorrik isn't looking to the northwest and doesn't care about a giant cube that's housing a ton of his minions (or maybe he feels those minions can handle the situation themselves).

I might be wrong (and I probably am) but are there actualy branded in Rata Primus? We fight simulacrums in the specimen chamber that should be "branded" by the Inquest and not by Kralkatorrik.

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

Joko might actually be protected somehow. I mean, Balthy went through all of the trouble to imprison Joko rather than Brand him and whatnot.

Guild Wars doesn't go by "classic lich" rules, however Tyrian liches are seemingly tougher than "classic liches" - as liches are seemingly immortal but without a phylactery item.

@Underdark.3726 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

And yeah, I feel it's weird there's no branded meteorites (even if we couldn't mine them) in Sandswept Isles. I guess Kralkatorrik isn't looking to the northwest and doesn't care about a giant cube that's housing a ton of his minions (or maybe he feels those minions can handle the situation themselves).

There are dozens of branded - all of them as test subjects. There's more than the simulacrums (which in of themselves are not the minions but projections of the minions). There's two labs dedicated to studying the Branded, which includes two different branded wyverns (one of which escaped and is part of an achievement / event to kill... except we don't kill it, it flies away at 2% health).

It's unclear whether the minions the simulacrum are based off of were created by the Inquest or not - given that they have unique names, even the destroyer, it's unlikely.

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

Joko might actually be protected somehow. I mean, Balthy went through all of the trouble to imprison Joko rather than Brand him and whatnot.

As stated, a GW Lich is not a DnD Lich.

No soulbinding used.

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

Joko might actually be protected somehow. I mean, Balthy went through all of the trouble to imprison Joko rather than Brand him and whatnot.

If the end of the original Prophecies campaign is anything to go by when it comes to GW Lich lore, there's something inside a Lich's physical body that can be trapped by damaging them enough to count as 'killing' them on top of Bloodstone (in this case, the one in the Fire Islands) - but then Nightfall muddies the issue by having The Undead Lich (Alias Vizir Khilibron) show up next to Shiro in the Realm of Torment for a boss battle.

Then Living Story 3 then has angry ghosts popping out of the exploded Bloodstone Fen bloodstone - but those were all regular people with the nebulous "chosen" property sacrificed to keep the Door of Komalie shut via Mursaat magic stuff, not unliving super-wizards killed post-door-opening.

It's a big bit of narrative wiggle room for the writers. A Guildwars Lich is not dead until the content team says it is dead.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

Joko might actually be protected somehow. I mean, Balthy went through all of the trouble to imprison Joko rather than Brand him and whatnot.

i went by that definition since i can't find any definition on liches in GW1 or 2 besides 'strong zombie necromancer'. but still it's not hard to assume that lichdom would do some nonsense with ones soul

@Seatox.4065 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

Joko might actually be protected somehow. I mean, Balthy went through all of the trouble to imprison Joko rather than Brand him and whatnot.

That all is actually explained.

• Shiro and Khilbron we fought in the Realm of Torment were their souls.
• When we opened the door, we unleashed the bound spirits.
• It's stated in Bloodstone Fen's journals that the souls of the Chosen escaped the Ring of Fire Bloodstone and returned to the Maguuma Bloodstone as they had become addicted to that Bloodstone's power (and it seems to be only for that Bloodstone given Captain Grumby's ghost in Ember Bay - makes me curious what effects would be had the White Mantle attempted to experiment with the other four bloodstones).

Khilbron was definitely dead, and we even fought his soul. Though GW2 has established that "killing" a soul does nothing but make them disappear for a time and come back less sane and tangible (this coming from The Desolation ghosts, not Foefire ghosts which lost sanity immediately and will always be just as tangible as before).

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Seatox.4065 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

Joko might actually be protected somehow. I mean, Balthy went through all of the trouble to imprison Joko rather than Brand him and whatnot.

• Shiro and Khilbron we fought in the Realm of Torment were their souls.
• When we opened the door, we unleashed the bound spirits.
• It's stated in Bloodstone Fen's journals that the souls of the Chosen escaped the Ring of Fire Bloodstone and returned to the Maguuma Bloodstone as they had become addicted to that Bloodstone's power (and it seems to be only for that Bloodstone given Captain Grumby's ghost in Ember Bay - makes me curious what effects would be had the White Mantle attempted to experiment with the other four bloodstones).

Oh, right, the Conspiracy of Dunces papers. So, according to those journals, if you're killed on a Bloodstone you're stuck in the bloodstone... as long as there's no Mursaat soul batteries or similar "auxiliary storage devices" hooked up. Khilbron got away to the Mists so we could beat him up in the Realm of Torment because of the whole Door thing going on.

So, in theory, if we were to stab Palawa Joko to death on top of a different bloodstone (after checking it for soul batteries that could provide an escape route), it might be enough to trap him, stopping him from popping back up... or it'll overload a multiply-dead-elder-dragon-magic-release-saturated-bloodstone and cause Bloodstone Fen Explosion 2.0, this time without a handy fake-Lazarus to soak up most of the blast.

except you can't stab Palawa to death - his body is indestructible, that's why he always has to be imprisoned.