Elusive Mind change is really bad！

This trait now applies 3 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun,WTF this！In sometime，It's better to choose anything than to choose it（even dont choose talent）！mes has no other way to recover！They destroys diversity！10s colddown more better than this！

I think the best solution is to redesign itendurance over than 80 --->breaking a stunendurance less than 80 --->return 10 endurance after dodgeMes can't consecutive to remove stun unless dodge is not used for a while

Oh yes it's completely missing the mark.

I'd like to think I've been overall quite complimentary regarding Anet's design decisions and balance regarding mesmer since the reveal of PoF (apart from Axe losing confusion), and enjoy a lot of mirage's mechanics.

But putting Exhaustion on EM is going to be one of the most misguided decisions if it makes it into the game - I don't know if they're sticking with it because they have some hidden plan for future balance changes, or whether it is simply a case of not considering the consequences thoroughly enough - which I can't believe is the case because given the amount of thought and work that has gone into designing mirage it is a struggle to picture not thinking a change like this through fully.

The only way in my mind Exhaustion will make sense is if they plan to prevent mirage from being able to dodge when cced as standard. That's it.

Otherwise Exhaustion is going to be awful for this trait if mirage dodge continues to function in the way it does.

This wouldn't be so bad if like thief, mes had hard endurance regen and wasn't reliant on vigor.

If Nomad's Endurance gave 10% per clone shattered EM giving 3 seconds of exhaust would maybe be fine.

as it is now, it would be awful to run and is more of a downgrade than anything.

Never understood why the don't just keep the cleanse and put the stun break on jaunt.

Elusive mind alone in its current state is better than the entire Renegade line.

EM fully deserved a smiters boon due to the fact that it should never have even existed in the first place. And Mesmers still have plenty of good options. There are valid things to complain about and this is absolutely not one of them.

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Elusive mind alone in its current state is better than the entire Renegade line.

EM fully deserved a smiters boon due to the fact that it should never have even existed in the first place. And Mesmers still have plenty of good options. There are valid things to complain about and this is absolutely not one of them.

Elusive mind negative effects are even greater than positive effects. Inspiration Specialization is the only choice , diversity is destroyed.

@"Master Ketsu.4569" said:Elusive mind alone in its current state is better than the entire Renegade line.

EM fully deserved a smiters boon due to the fact that it should never have even existed in the first place. And Mesmers still have plenty of good options. There are valid things to complain about and this is absolutely not one of them.

I don't think you'll find many if anyone here denying that EM needs balancing. Of course it does, ever since it was revealed at the initial pof reveal the reaction was "that's going to get nerfed".

That's not the point.

The point is the balance solution they've gone with does not make sense with the overall design of how mirage dodge currently functions.

@Curunen.8729 said:

@"Master Ketsu.4569" said:Elusive mind alone in its current state is better than the entire Renegade line.

EM fully deserved a smiters boon due to the fact that it should never have even existed in the first place. And Mesmers still have plenty of good options. There are valid things to complain about and this is absolutely not one of them.

No don't you see, the correct way to balance something is to make it worse to use then to just have no GM trait at all. That is balance!

! Remember how I keep saying PvE players are better at the game then PvP players?

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Elusive mind alone in its current state is better than the entire Renegade line.

EM fully deserved a smiters boon due to the fact that it should never have even existed in the first place. And Mesmers still have plenty of good options. There are valid things to complain about and this is absolutely not one of them.

Nothing deserves a smiters boon, which this change isn’t because smiters boon was a change that left the skill completely and utterly unuseable in any PvP situation at all, it had literally no use at all after they nerfed it, the cost, recharge and effect were so completely and utterly nerfed it’s the prime example of how to remove a skill without actually removing it.

EM needs the stunbreak part removing, 1 condition cleanse on dodge is an OK GM and it competes with other really good traits like IH and....ok just IH but it’s a hard choice to make between the two.

Im really afraid of the mesmer mirage change where illusive mind gives you exhaustion. This means the mesmer can't regenerate endurance at all in this time.

I think you think mirage is similar to daredevil but thats not right. Mirage still has only 2 endurance bars and has basically no skills that regenerate endurance like daredevil does (daredevil heal, signet, vigor). Mirage only has some vigor and thats it. I think nobody will run illusive mind anymore.

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Elusive mind alone in its current state is better than the entire Renegade line.

EM fully deserved a smiters boon due to the fact that it should never have even existed in the first place. And Mesmers still have plenty of good options. There are valid things to complain about and this is absolutely not one of them.

You're right, it never should have existed in the first place. No, that does not mean it deserves the smiters boon treatment. That's nothing but lazy design. EM can actually be fixed and be a good GM trait by just flat out removing the stunbreak. But as it stands now, the exhaustion doesn't even address the actual problem with the trait, but it does hamstring the entire traitline if you take that trait. Making it worthless is not a better option than actually fixing the trait and making it balanced

I'd remove the stunbreak and add a Heal instead.. My 2 Cents

People seem to think that Smiter's boon is a tale of anet righteously nerfing an overpowered mechanic into the ground.

It is not.

Smiter's boon is a cautionary tale of anet designing themselves into a corner where they ended up with no idea how to fix a mechanic and had to remove it from the game instead.

This change is absolutely another case of Smiter's boon. Anet designed themselves into a corner with a mechanic that could never be anything but broken or useless. It was broken, now it's useless. Congratulations to the balance team for learning nothing in a decade.

@"Pyroatheist.9031" said:People seem to think that Smiter's boon is a tale of anet righteously nerfing an overpowered mechanic into the ground.

It is not.

Smiter's boon is a cautionary tale of anet designing themselves into a corner where they ended up with no idea how to fix a mechanic and had to remove it from the game instead.

This change is absolutely another case of Smiter's boon. Anet designed themselves into a corner with a mechanic that could never be anything but broken or useless. It was broken, now it's useless. Congratulations to the balance team for learning nothing in a decade.

so much thisit's made even more sad with the fact that Karl himself sports the icon for Smiter's Boon as his forum avatar, further proving how they simply accept their incapability to balance correctly because "lolafunnyjoke", yep, balance sure is a joke, apparently

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Elusive mind alone in its current state is better than the entire Renegade line.

EM fully deserved a smiters boon due to the fact that it should never have even existed in the first place. And Mesmers still have plenty of good options. There are valid things to complain about and this is absolutely not one of them.

Big problem is that not only is defense tied to dodging, but so is offense. I think an internal cooldown is a much better solution.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:People seem to think that Smiter's boon is a tale of anet righteously nerfing an overpowered mechanic into the ground.

It is not.

Smiter's boon is a cautionary tale of anet designing themselves into a corner where they ended up with no idea how to fix a mechanic and had to remove it from the game instead.

This change is absolutely another case of Smiter's boon. Anet designed themselves into a corner with a mechanic that could never be anything but broken or useless. It was broken, now it's useless. Congratulations to the balance team for learning nothing in a decade.

I don’t completely agree that they’re designed into a corner with elusive mind though, they’ve chosen the path of least resistance certainly but there have been suggestions on the forums on a number of ways to change this trait which wouldn’t make it broken but useful and functional. However yes, ANet does have a creepy history of instead of fixing something properly they nerf it into the floor so no-one will pick it, ever.

Well sadly all we can do is sit and wait, hoping they implement a sensible solution.

I kindly ask devs to look at all the alternative balance suggestions mentioned on this forum (which I'm sure you've already seen), reasons for why Exhaustion is not appropriate and are able to apply one of the many suggestions or something different of your own to function well with the design of mirage.

@Curunen.8729 said:Well sadly all we can do is sit and wait, hoping they implement a sensible solution.

I kindly ask devs to look at all the alternative balance suggestions mentioned on this forum (which I'm sure you've already seen), reasons for why Exhaustion is not appropriate and are able to apply one of the many suggestions or something different of your own to function well with the design of mirage.

They won't. We were telling them about how ridiculously overpowered EM was since it was first leaked, and we hadn't even had the chance to demo it yet. And yet here we are and their first instinct was to give it exhaustion. They've had since before PoF dropped to actually look at our suggestions, and they ignored literally all of them, for whatever reason.

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:Well sadly all we can do is sit and wait, hoping they implement a sensible solution.

I kindly ask devs to look at all the alternative balance suggestions mentioned on this forum (which I'm sure you've already seen), reasons for why Exhaustion is not appropriate and are able to apply one of the many suggestions or something different of your own to function well with the design of mirage.

Ideally they should have adjusted it before pof came out - but I suppose it's a good way to sell the new expansion.

Ah, I'm happy to adapt, just a shame if they can't settle on a solution that is healthy for the game and functional for mirage.

@Curunen.8729 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:Well sadly all we can do is sit and wait, hoping they implement a sensible solution.

I kindly ask devs to look at all the alternative balance suggestions mentioned on this forum (which I'm sure you've already seen), reasons for why Exhaustion is not appropriate and are able to apply one of the many suggestions or something different of your own to function well with the design of mirage.

Well guys guess mirage was just a mirage

I have already started running IH in pvp to get used to it and tbh its not bad at all, the increase on dps is noticable and the sword abush often interrupts someone several times in a row, I'm digging it.

Opportunity to re-suggest alternative solutions for Elusive Mind:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/32510/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release-part-2

Hopefully a functional solution is reached.

Well 3s is pretty long and it basically dumps the whole profession mechanic away after a stunbreak. An ICD with an Icon that would show you when you can Stunbreak again would be better. I mean 10s ICD would be reasonable and still a short stunbreak.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Well 3s is pretty long and it basically dumps the whole profession mechanic away after a stunbreak. An ICD with an Icon that would show you when you can Stunbreak again would be better. I mean 10s ICD would be reasonable and still a short stunbreak.Thank you, I hope the devs can also see this issue. :)

This entire thread is absurd. This nerf is perfect.

I got to plat for the first time ever using just mirage solo queue. I'm not that great a player, so trust me when I say this nerf is completely justified. No class should, for any reason, be completely immune to stuns or crowd control. This entire expansion has let mesmer get away with that.

Don't get me wrong, I think stunbreaks and the like are absolutely necessary, but on most other classes it requires a utility, or some steady stab generation. All mirage has to do is dodge and bam, the stun never existed. You should be able to get out of stuns if you can, or are built for it, but it should DEFINITELY cost you something for not evading the stun in the first kitten place. A bit of exhaustion won't do anything except force the mesmer to disengage to wait out the exhaustion, which in 3 seconds is easy to do for the most mobile elite class in the game.

Honestly the upcoming nerfs to mirage are still not enough, and more should be implimented. Infinite Horizons was a better choice anyways.

@Rahvin.4308 said:This entire thread is absurd. This nerf is perfect.

I got to plat for the first time ever using just mirage solo queue. I'm not that great a player, so trust me when I say this nerf is completely justified. No class should, for any reason, be completely immune to stuns or crowd control. This entire expansion has let mesmer get away with that.

Don't get me wrong, I think stunbreaks and the like are absolutely necessary, but on most other classes it requires a utility, or some steady stab generation. All mirage has to do is dodge and bam, the stun never existed. You should be able to get out of stuns if you can, or are built for it, but it should DEFINITELY cost you something for not evading the stun in the first kitten place. A bit of exhaustion won't do anything except force the mesmer to disengage to wait out the exhaustion, which in 3 seconds is easy to do for the most mobile elite class in the game.

Honestly the upcoming nerfs to mirage are still not enough, and more should be implimented. Infinite Horizons was a better choice anyways.

Tfw you literally don't read anything in the thread and then comment anyway.