Chronophantasma - Time it Takes to Spawn a Clone — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Chronophantasma - Time it Takes to Spawn a Clone

Fay.2735Fay.2735 Member ✭✭

I've been getting increasingly more frustrated with how Chronophantasma works now. I like the phantasm changes overall (I actually love getting to use shatters now) but as a Support Chrono in raids, using CP is like pulling teeth to me. It takes a good ~10 something seconds for a clone to spawn. I don't run a build that is focused on clone-generating so if I want to use CP and do my Continuum rotation, I have to sit there for what feels like a century to wait for enough clones to turn up.

But then by the time I have three clones up, more often than not, things are either already dead, I can only do a part rotation, or I have to wait forever to finally get to do my full rotation (losing precious DPS time). Constantly not getting to do my full rotation and pulling teeth to get my clones up in general feels very frustrating, not fun, and very unsatisfying to me. I also don't think it's reasonable to have to keep track of these invisible internal ~10s timers that all vary, I already have enough to pay attention to during raids.

I had the impression this change was supposed to make Phantasm focused builds compatible with our class mechanic but I feel that having the ~10s clone spawn rate on CP (a phantasm focused trait) completely goes against the whole point of the phantasm change. Sure, I can just not use CP, not do a full rotation to start with, or get more clone generation in my build etc. etc. etc. but that defeats the point I'm trying to make here. If it was me, I'd change CP so a clone spawns after the first phantasm dies or after a set amount of time (that is much shorter than ~10s).

Does anyone else feel this way about using Chronophantasma when using it with builds that do not generate many clones? Surely I can't be alone in feeling it's annoying to work with...

█║ Have you heard of the city? The deep city, the ancient Uru? Where there was power to write worlds. ║█

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Comments

  • Eypheha.5831Eypheha.5831 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    Yes. Getting the clones to spawn and being forced to rely on the clone-spawn to shatter takes more time than I'd like. To gain the three clones, I have to switch from greatsword to sword and back or wait for the phantasms to cycle, both taking more time than is really workable, particularly in wvw or pvp. Ten to twelve seconds is just too long. Usually you're dead or the foe is dead. PvE is a different environment. Battles often last much longer. So pretty much clones and shatter become useless in wvw/pvp as a damage producing element.

    But, I imagine they wanted to nerf shatter in those two modes to silence to outcry...sad.

  • serialkicker.5274serialkicker.5274 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    I agree. I like the changes, but clone generation for support purposes is quite an issue now.

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    This is like complaining about how picking Inspiration over Dueling does less damage.

    I wouldn't necessarily mind if they started buffing Mesmer even more but from a realistic view point, a delay on clone production is worth the strength, fun and synergy Chronophantasma provides. Its not like their isn't a shatter focused trait in the same slot.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Honestly I would rather see CP redesigned so that you lose the clone, in exchange for getting a second attack from the phantasm. That's more than enough tradeoff in my opinion, and it would really make CP an actual choice depending on your build and goal instead of the goto pick.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • @OriOri.8724 said:
    Honestly I would rather see CP redesigned so that you lose the clone, in exchange for getting a second attack from the phantasm. That's more than enough tradeoff in my opinion, and it would really make CP an actual choice depending on your build and goal instead of the goto pick.

    It's actually not a go to pick anymore, since your rotation gets really clunky with a slower phantasm start, and Illusion less (lacks Phantasmal Haste) builds actually prefer using Quickness on Shatter.

    Dancer - Elite Spec Concept for Mesmer

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    Honestly I would rather see CP redesigned so that you lose the clone, in exchange for getting a second attack from the phantasm. That's more than enough tradeoff in my opinion, and it would really make CP an actual choice depending on your build and goal instead of the goto pick.

    It's actually not a go to pick anymore, since your rotation gets really clunky with a slower phantasm start, and Illusion less (lacks Phantasmal Haste) builds actually prefer using Quickness on Shatter.

    Right, but the proposed change would take it right back to always being the goto pick, because it will always be useful. Yea, quickness on shatter is nice, but in most situations you already have access to quickness anyway, and there isn't really a place where this outshines having an extra attack from phantasms (except possibly raids), and lost time, despite its buffs, is still pretty useless. So the change would make it overpowered compared to the other 2 GMs.

    Getting 2 attacks out of every phantasm skill, or 4 berserkers with imagined burden, is more than enough tradeoff to justify not obtaining a clone out of those skills period in my opinion. I know not everyone agrees, but I would rather see the trait changed in this manner.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • @serialkicker.5274 said:
    I agree. I like the changes, but clone generation for support purposes is quite an issue now.

    Interesting that nobody is even considering using Scepter instead of a Sword to solve this problem. This solution keeps your traits and utilities pretty much intact.

  • @Erinah.6782 said:

    @serialkicker.5274 said:
    I agree. I like the changes, but clone generation for support purposes is quite an issue now.

    Interesting that nobody is even considering using Scepter instead of a Sword to solve this problem. This solution keeps your traits and utilities pretty much intact.

    Not really. Sword does more damage and more damage means faster kills more dps.

    Scepter really needs some buffs to put it on par with sword and ax. Sword does better power damage and ax does better condi damage. No reason to take scepter.

  • @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    Honestly I would rather see CP redesigned so that you lose the clone, in exchange for getting a second attack from the phantasm. That's more than enough tradeoff in my opinion, and it would really make CP an actual choice depending on your build and goal instead of the goto pick.

    It's actually not a go to pick anymore, since your rotation gets really clunky with a slower phantasm start, and Illusion less (lacks Phantasmal Haste) builds actually prefer using Quickness on Shatter.

    Right, but the proposed change would take it right back to always being the goto pick, because it will always be useful. Yea, quickness on shatter is nice, but in most situations you already have access to quickness anyway, and there isn't really a place where this outshines having an extra attack from phantasms (except possibly raids), and lost time, despite its buffs, is still pretty useless. So the change would make it overpowered compared to the other 2 GMs.

    Getting 2 attacks out of every phantasm skill, or 4 berserkers with imagined burden, is more than enough tradeoff to justify not obtaining a clone out of those skills period in my opinion. I know not everyone agrees, but I would rather see the trait changed in this manner.

    I agree, but I think the current iteration of Chronophantasma is perfect as is. Chrono will suffer too much losing clone generation from Phantasm skills. Its dps build in raids will suffer a lot by not having clones from Phantasms to Mind Wrack with, same with Support Chrono. I'd say buff Lost Time and Seize the Moment instead since I think having a delayed clone is already a big nuisance in most scenarios.

    Dancer - Elite Spec Concept for Mesmer

  • Erinah.6782Erinah.6782 Member
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @Erinah.6782 said:

    @serialkicker.5274 said:
    I agree. I like the changes, but clone generation for support purposes is quite an issue now.

    Interesting that nobody is even considering using Scepter instead of a Sword to solve this problem. This solution keeps your traits and utilities pretty much intact.

    Not really. Sword does more damage and more damage means faster kills more dps.

    Scepter really needs some buffs to put it on par with sword and ax. Sword does better power damage and ax does better condi damage. No reason to take scepter.

    Scepter generates clones way faster than any of those weapons. It's a trade-off.
    Isn't support Chrono about, you know... support? If you need clones to properly fulfill that role, it seems like a solid choice.

    It was always really strange to me that people often opted for things like Berserker gear or solutions that make rotations significantly more complicated (or even excruciating at times) for a marginal damage gain on a support character.

  • @Erinah.6782 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @Erinah.6782 said:

    @serialkicker.5274 said:
    I agree. I like the changes, but clone generation for support purposes is quite an issue now.

    Interesting that nobody is even considering using Scepter instead of a Sword to solve this problem. This solution keeps your traits and utilities pretty much intact.

    Not really. Sword does more damage and more damage means faster kills more dps.

    Scepter really needs some buffs to put it on par with sword and ax. Sword does better power damage and ax does better condi damage. No reason to take scepter.

    Scepter generates clones way faster than any of those weapons. It's a trade-off.
    Isn't support Chrono about, you know... support? If you need clones to properly fulfill that role, it seems like a solid choice.

    It was always really strange to me that people often opted for things like Berserker gear or solutions that make rotations significantly more complicated (or even excruciating at times) for a marginal damage gain on a support character.

    I mean I get what you’re saying but the fact is people have tested weapon sets, etc to determine that double Sword is the best to use. If you know what you’re supposed to do there’s no reason not to run berserker gear. @Pyroatheist.9031 was having a discussion about rune choice earlier and if you’re running certain things you can do more dps.
    Pyro can also go into more depth about the reasons why, granted you might not like how he replies at time.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    Honestly I would rather see CP redesigned so that you lose the clone, in exchange for getting a second attack from the phantasm. That's more than enough tradeoff in my opinion, and it would really make CP an actual choice depending on your build and goal instead of the goto pick.

    It's actually not a go to pick anymore, since your rotation gets really clunky with a slower phantasm start, and Illusion less (lacks Phantasmal Haste) builds actually prefer using Quickness on Shatter.

    Right, but the proposed change would take it right back to always being the goto pick, because it will always be useful. Yea, quickness on shatter is nice, but in most situations you already have access to quickness anyway, and there isn't really a place where this outshines having an extra attack from phantasms (except possibly raids), and lost time, despite its buffs, is still pretty useless. So the change would make it overpowered compared to the other 2 GMs.

    Getting 2 attacks out of every phantasm skill, or 4 berserkers with imagined burden, is more than enough tradeoff to justify not obtaining a clone out of those skills period in my opinion. I know not everyone agrees, but I would rather see the trait changed in this manner.

    I agree, but I think the current iteration of Chronophantasma is perfect as is. Chrono will suffer too much losing clone generation from Phantasm skills. Its dps build in raids will suffer a lot by not having clones from Phantasms to Mind Wrack with, same with Support Chrono. I'd say buff Lost Time and Seize the Moment instead since I think having a delayed clone is already a big nuisance in most scenarios.

    Again, tradeoffs. The current iteration of chronophantasma just feels bad to play with, it shouldn't stay as it is now honestly. In some situations, chrono would want clone access, and thus wouldn't take CP. That is why this would be a good change, CP would not be a trait that is always taken, because its always better than the alternatives. Making them choose between having CP for more phantasm attacks or having better support via keeping the clone generation and picking another GM is a good design choice.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    Honestly I would rather see CP redesigned so that you lose the clone, in exchange for getting a second attack from the phantasm. That's more than enough tradeoff in my opinion, and it would really make CP an actual choice depending on your build and goal instead of the goto pick.

    It's actually not a go to pick anymore, since your rotation gets really clunky with a slower phantasm start, and Illusion less (lacks Phantasmal Haste) builds actually prefer using Quickness on Shatter.

    Right, but the proposed change would take it right back to always being the goto pick, because it will always be useful. Yea, quickness on shatter is nice, but in most situations you already have access to quickness anyway, and there isn't really a place where this outshines having an extra attack from phantasms (except possibly raids), and lost time, despite its buffs, is still pretty useless. So the change would make it overpowered compared to the other 2 GMs.

    Getting 2 attacks out of every phantasm skill, or 4 berserkers with imagined burden, is more than enough tradeoff to justify not obtaining a clone out of those skills period in my opinion. I know not everyone agrees, but I would rather see the trait changed in this manner.

    I agree, but I think the current iteration of Chronophantasma is perfect as is. Chrono will suffer too much losing clone generation from Phantasm skills. Its dps build in raids will suffer a lot by not having clones from Phantasms to Mind Wrack with, same with Support Chrono. I'd say buff Lost Time and Seize the Moment instead since I think having a delayed clone is already a big nuisance in most scenarios.

    Again, tradeoffs. The current iteration of chronophantasma just feels bad to play with, it shouldn't stay as it is now honestly. In some situations, chrono would want clone access, and thus wouldn't take CP. That is why this would be a good change, CP would not be a trait that is always taken, because its always better than the alternatives. Making them choose between having CP for more phantasm attacks or having better support via keeping the clone generation and picking another GM is a good design choice.

    It's not always better than the alternatives. As I said optimized PvE builds use Seize the Moment when there's no source of quick self quickness, (mostly when you dont pick up Phantasmal Haste from Illusions line for example) The most used Chrono build Domi/Inspiration does this for example.

    Dancer - Elite Spec Concept for Mesmer

  • Pyroatheist.9031Pyroatheist.9031 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2018

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @Erinah.6782 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @Erinah.6782 said:

    @serialkicker.5274 said:
    I agree. I like the changes, but clone generation for support purposes is quite an issue now.

    Interesting that nobody is even considering using Scepter instead of a Sword to solve this problem. This solution keeps your traits and utilities pretty much intact.

    Not really. Sword does more damage and more damage means faster kills more dps.

    Scepter really needs some buffs to put it on par with sword and ax. Sword does better power damage and ax does better condi damage. No reason to take scepter.

    Scepter generates clones way faster than any of those weapons. It's a trade-off.
    Isn't support Chrono about, you know... support? If you need clones to properly fulfill that role, it seems like a solid choice.

    It was always really strange to me that people often opted for things like Berserker gear or solutions that make rotations significantly more complicated (or even excruciating at times) for a marginal damage gain on a support character.

    I mean I get what you’re saying but the fact is people have tested weapon sets, etc to determine that double Sword is the best to use. If you know what you’re supposed to do there’s no reason not to run berserker gear. @Pyroatheist.9031 was having a discussion about rune choice earlier and if you’re running certain things you can do more dps.
    Pyro can also go into more depth about the reasons why, granted you might not like how he replies at time.

    Well aside from dps, there are a number of attacks that the scepter block just doesn't cut it for, a number of situations where having the leap/swap immob is really nice to have, a couple cases where you really do want that boon strip on autoattack, and a number of situations (read: literally 100% of the time) where you really don't want to saddle yourself with a clunky and annoying weapon.

    Edit: As an aside, I have to agree with the thread here. It's annoying and clunky to have to wait ages to get a clone spawned from chronophantasma. It kind of defeats the point of this whole rework where phantasms no longer interfere with clones and shattering. Really the mechanic should just be changed so that all phantasm skills spawn a clone on use, not after the phantasm dissipates and just separate the mechanics entirely that way.

    Ohey, I've got a signature

  • eldenbri.1059eldenbri.1059 Member ✭✭✭

    I think many of the most talented players greatly prefer sword.

    I've used scepter for a couple years in wvw roaming. For me, there are a few nice things about it:

    • good clone generation
    • can move while using the #2 block skill (including putting ip block and stepping into aoe)
    • has 900 range (I've never been great at sticking in melee range, and I totally suck at the sword leap/swap

    In the end, you have to decide what functions a weapon is performing for you in a build. If you are not playing Mirage, and your primary need from one mainhand slot is clone generation, scepter may be the best option. I agree that it can feel clunky without either quickness or the Malicious Sorcery trait

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    Honestly I would rather see CP redesigned so that you lose the clone, in exchange for getting a second attack from the phantasm. That's more than enough tradeoff in my opinion, and it would really make CP an actual choice depending on your build and goal instead of the goto pick.

    It's actually not a go to pick anymore, since your rotation gets really clunky with a slower phantasm start, and Illusion less (lacks Phantasmal Haste) builds actually prefer using Quickness on Shatter.

    Right, but the proposed change would take it right back to always being the goto pick, because it will always be useful. Yea, quickness on shatter is nice, but in most situations you already have access to quickness anyway, and there isn't really a place where this outshines having an extra attack from phantasms (except possibly raids), and lost time, despite its buffs, is still pretty useless. So the change would make it overpowered compared to the other 2 GMs.

    Getting 2 attacks out of every phantasm skill, or 4 berserkers with imagined burden, is more than enough tradeoff to justify not obtaining a clone out of those skills period in my opinion. I know not everyone agrees, but I would rather see the trait changed in this manner.

    I agree, but I think the current iteration of Chronophantasma is perfect as is. Chrono will suffer too much losing clone generation from Phantasm skills. Its dps build in raids will suffer a lot by not having clones from Phantasms to Mind Wrack with, same with Support Chrono. I'd say buff Lost Time and Seize the Moment instead since I think having a delayed clone is already a big nuisance in most scenarios.

    Again, tradeoffs. The current iteration of chronophantasma just feels bad to play with, it shouldn't stay as it is now honestly. In some situations, chrono would want clone access, and thus wouldn't take CP. That is why this would be a good change, CP would not be a trait that is always taken, because its always better than the alternatives. Making them choose between having CP for more phantasm attacks or having better support via keeping the clone generation and picking another GM is a good design choice.

    "Chronophantasma is bad so sometimes chrono won't pick it so they should nerf Chronophantasma so that Chronos don't have to pick it"

    What?

  • Handi.1685Handi.1685 Member ✭✭

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    Honestly I would rather see CP redesigned so that you lose the clone, in exchange for getting a second attack from the phantasm. That's more than enough tradeoff in my opinion, and it would really make CP an actual choice depending on your build and goal instead of the goto pick.

    Can you see beyond support part , there is a DPS part as well ,which will be nerfed this so badly this way . With Phantasmal Haste there is no problem keep up the clones for for support part , and dps , and before you say Signet of Illusions it is buged , literaly Creates a clone every few seconds while you are in combat which meens the
    generated clones seek new targeds all time and keep you in combat all time . In SW this is what happend : I killed the mob but for few seconds i was in combat , the signet generated a clone which attacked a nearest thing it was a ambient creature ( the little natural things in every map ) then the other attacked a natural warthog so it is is working as the description say but not in the good way . Cp is a choice to pick btw in support , in dps there isn t any better alternative .

  • Theocraft.6053Theocraft.6053 Member ✭✭✭

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    Honestly I would rather see CP redesigned so that you lose the clone, in exchange for getting a second attack from the phantasm. That's more than enough tradeoff in my opinion, and it would really make CP an actual choice depending on your build and goal instead of the goto pick.

    It's actually not a go to pick anymore, since your rotation gets really clunky with a slower phantasm start, and Illusion less (lacks Phantasmal Haste) builds actually prefer using Quickness on Shatter.

    you are right, but they should not make this skill deliberately clunky and unsatisfying. They should buff a little other options on this level. In every class/profession there should be a flow, a smooth gameplay, and this "daze on respawn" is destroying that...

  • RabbitUp.8294RabbitUp.8294 Member ✭✭✭

    Chronophantasma is meant to be a dps trait after the change, and it works as such for power chrono. Support chrono has another option in Seize the Moment, which they currently use. So, both builds have something to choose. A good support chrono can adapt to a 2-second Continuum Split rotation.

  • @Theocraft.6053 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:
    Honestly I would rather see CP redesigned so that you lose the clone, in exchange for getting a second attack from the phantasm. That's more than enough tradeoff in my opinion, and it would really make CP an actual choice depending on your build and goal instead of the goto pick.

    It's actually not a go to pick anymore, since your rotation gets really clunky with a slower phantasm start, and Illusion less (lacks Phantasmal Haste) builds actually prefer using Quickness on Shatter.

    you are right, but they should not make this skill deliberately clunky and unsatisfying. They should buff a little other options on this level. In every class/profession there should be a flow, a smooth gameplay, and this "daze on respawn" is destroying that...

    while it is clunky for support chrono, on the other hand its really rewarding for Power DPS Chrono as you can have more than 5 Phantasms at a time thanks to this trait. And it feels good when you have tons of them. Feels like bringing an army to the fight. The daze on resummon is there for obvious balance reasons.

    Dancer - Elite Spec Concept for Mesmer

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    If we are going to complain about a Chrono GM trait lets complain about the third one which is so awful I can't be bothered to look up its name.

  • @Levetty.1279 said:
    If we are going to complain about a Chrono GM trait lets complain about the third one which is so awful I can't be bothered to look up its name.

    Even talking about it is Lost Time, sincethe last buff to it wasn't really that good.

    Dancer - Elite Spec Concept for Mesmer

  • Kicast.1459Kicast.1459 Member ✭✭✭

    isn't chronophantasma bugged?
    I mean shouldn't a clone spawn each time a phantasm disappear ? if yes you should have one clone for the first phantasm and one for the second... seems so obvious to me...

  • Refia Montes.3205Refia Montes.3205 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2018

    @Kicast.1459 said:
    isn't chronophantasma bugged?
    I mean shouldn't a clone spawn each time a phantasm disappear ? if yes you should have one clone for the first phantasm and one for the second... seems so obvious to me...

    Read the description again.

    "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone."

    Dancer - Elite Spec Concept for Mesmer

  • Kicast.1459Kicast.1459 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2018

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @Kicast.1459 said:
    isn't chronophantasma bugged?
    I mean shouldn't a clone spawn each time a phantasm disappear ? if yes you should have one clone for the first phantasm and one for the second... seems so obvious to me...

    Read the description again.

    "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone."

    ok didn't see this...thx...
    so then yes chronophantasma is a pain ...you have to wait more than 6 sec to get clones...
    I would say it is even the complete opposite result they were looking at... you can no more use your shatter frequently.

  • K THEN.5162K THEN.5162 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes! While the not being able to shatter phantasms would have been good for the old phantasms design where they do multiple attacks but currently the phantasms take way too long to turn into a clone after finishing that attack. This is absolutely terrible from a PvP perspective because the 3 whole seconds it takes to turn into a clone will more than likely just be cleaved out prematurely. That being said, I do like the phantasm changes but it would feel a hell of a lot more smoother if they just kept the shattering phantasms mechanic

    Your Friendly WvW Jumpscare

  • Xruptor.3965Xruptor.3965 Member ✭✭
    edited March 15, 2018

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @Kicast.1459 said:
    isn't chronophantasma bugged?
    I mean shouldn't a clone spawn each time a phantasm disappear ? if yes you should have one clone for the first phantasm and one for the second... seems so obvious to me...

    Read the description again.

    "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone."

    Where is that description? Because it's not on the trait on my client. Mine reads a little differently. I'm just curious like @Kicast.1459 because I've been searching for "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone." and yet don't see it anywhere. Here is an image of mine.

    chronophantasma.jpg

  • @Xruptor.3965 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @Kicast.1459 said:
    isn't chronophantasma bugged?
    I mean shouldn't a clone spawn each time a phantasm disappear ? if yes you should have one clone for the first phantasm and one for the second... seems so obvious to me...

    Read the description again.

    "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone."

    Where is that description? Because it's not on the trait on my client. Mine reads a little differently. I'm just curious like @Kicast.1459 because I've been searching for "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone." and yet don't see it anywhere. Here is an image of mine.

    chronophantasma.jpg

    Unupdated tool-tips by anet rip. It was listed in the balance notes with the phantasm rework.

    Dancer - Elite Spec Concept for Mesmer

  • Xruptor.3965Xruptor.3965 Member ✭✭
    edited March 15, 2018

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @Kicast.1459 said:
    isn't chronophantasma bugged?
    I mean shouldn't a clone spawn each time a phantasm disappear ? if yes you should have one clone for the first phantasm and one for the second... seems so obvious to me...

    Read the description again.

    "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone."

    ok didn't see this...thx...
    so then yes chronophantasma is a pain ...you have to wait more than 6 sec to get clones...
    I would say it is even the complete opposite result they were looking at... you can no more use your shatter frequently.

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @Xruptor.3965 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @Kicast.1459 said:
    isn't chronophantasma bugged?
    I mean shouldn't a clone spawn each time a phantasm disappear ? if yes you should have one clone for the first phantasm and one for the second... seems so obvious to me...

    Read the description again.

    "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone."

    Where is that description? Because it's not on the trait on my client. Mine reads a little differently. I'm just curious like @Kicast.1459 because I've been searching for "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone." and yet don't see it anywhere. Here is an image of mine.

    chronophantasma.jpg

    Unupdated tool-tips by anet rip. It was listed in the balance notes with the phantasm rework.

    Okay yeah I thought I was going nuts. So I went to PVP Lobby and tested it on a Golem. If I have Imagined Burden set and Chronophantasma. When I use Phantasm Beserker it spawns two Phantasms. When those two time out Chronophantasma kicks in and spawns another two Phantasms. When finally those two give out then they spawn exactly two clones. I did this several times just to make sure. So the second pair of resummoned Phantasm do spawn clones. Unless you meant the first pair. Otherwise you would have 4 clones and that would be silly. Because the original two never got to the "turn to clone" phase, they were instead resummoned. When the resummoned ones finally time out they do kick in two clones.

    I tested this at least 5 times in a row. In every instance the second pair of resummoned phantasms each give me a clone.

    Is this for future patch notes? Because currently it's working exactly like the traits tooltip saids. So maybe they removed that portion? I could be wrong I just don't understand then why it's working exactly as advertised. Yet it's apparently not supposed to do that according to what you are telling. Believe me I'm not saying you are wrong but this is just extremely weird if that is what is supposed to happen. Because according to my tests that isn't actually happening.

    Please try it and get back to me. Because I'm baffled. :)

  • @Xruptor.3965 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @Kicast.1459 said:
    isn't chronophantasma bugged?
    I mean shouldn't a clone spawn each time a phantasm disappear ? if yes you should have one clone for the first phantasm and one for the second... seems so obvious to me...

    Read the description again.

    "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone."

    ok didn't see this...thx...
    so then yes chronophantasma is a pain ...you have to wait more than 6 sec to get clones...
    I would say it is even the complete opposite result they were looking at... you can no more use your shatter frequently.

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @Xruptor.3965 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @Kicast.1459 said:
    isn't chronophantasma bugged?
    I mean shouldn't a clone spawn each time a phantasm disappear ? if yes you should have one clone for the first phantasm and one for the second... seems so obvious to me...

    Read the description again.

    "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone."

    Where is that description? Because it's not on the trait on my client. Mine reads a little differently. I'm just curious like @Kicast.1459 because I've been searching for "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone." and yet don't see it anywhere. Here is an image of mine.

    chronophantasma.jpg

    Unupdated tool-tips by anet rip. It was listed in the balance notes with the phantasm rework.

    Okay yeah I thought I was going nuts. So I went to PVP Lobby and tested it on a Golem. If I have Imagined Burden set and Chronophantasma. When I use Phantasm Beserker it spawns two Phantasms. When those two time out Chronophantasma kicks in and spawns another two Phantasms. When finally those two give out then they spawn exactly two clones. I did this several times just to make sure. So the second pair of resummoned Phantasm do spawn clones. Unless you meant the first pair. Otherwise you would have 4 clones and that would be silly. Because they original two never got to the "turn to clone" phase since they were resummoned. When the resummoned ones finally time out they do kick in two clones.

    I tested this at least 5 times in a row. In every instance the second pair of resummoned phantasms each give me a clone.

    Is this for future patch notes? Because currently it's working exactly like the traits tooltip saids. So maybe they removed that portion? I could be wrong I just don't understand then why it's working exactly as advertised. Yet it's apparently not supposed to do that according to what you are telling. Believe me I'm not saying you are wrong but this is just extremely weird if that is what is supposed to happen. Because according to my tests that isn't actually happening.

    Please try it and get back to me. Because I'm baffled. :)

    The wording is weird. Here's the exact notes:

    "Chronophantasma: This trait now causes phantasms to resummon themselves after the first time they would normally be replaced with a clone. A phantasm that resummons itself will not create a clone."

    It works as intended. A Phantasm resummons itself after the attack rather than making a clone once. Afterwards the resummoned Phantasm becomes a clone. It's confusing wording.

    Dancer - Elite Spec Concept for Mesmer

  • @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @Xruptor.3965 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @Kicast.1459 said:
    isn't chronophantasma bugged?
    I mean shouldn't a clone spawn each time a phantasm disappear ? if yes you should have one clone for the first phantasm and one for the second... seems so obvious to me...

    Read the description again.

    "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone."

    ok didn't see this...thx...
    so then yes chronophantasma is a pain ...you have to wait more than 6 sec to get clones...
    I would say it is even the complete opposite result they were looking at... you can no more use your shatter frequently.

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @Xruptor.3965 said:

    @Refia Montes.3205 said:

    @Kicast.1459 said:
    isn't chronophantasma bugged?
    I mean shouldn't a clone spawn each time a phantasm disappear ? if yes you should have one clone for the first phantasm and one for the second... seems so obvious to me...

    Read the description again.

    "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone."

    Where is that description? Because it's not on the trait on my client. Mine reads a little differently. I'm just curious like @Kicast.1459 because I've been searching for "A Phantasm that is resummoned doesn't spawn a clone." and yet don't see it anywhere. Here is an image of mine.

    chronophantasma.jpg

    Unupdated tool-tips by anet rip. It was listed in the balance notes with the phantasm rework.

    Okay yeah I thought I was going nuts. So I went to PVP Lobby and tested it on a Golem. If I have Imagined Burden set and Chronophantasma. When I use Phantasm Beserker it spawns two Phantasms. When those two time out Chronophantasma kicks in and spawns another two Phantasms. When finally those two give out then they spawn exactly two clones. I did this several times just to make sure. So the second pair of resummoned Phantasm do spawn clones. Unless you meant the first pair. Otherwise you would have 4 clones and that would be silly. Because they original two never got to the "turn to clone" phase since they were resummoned. When the resummoned ones finally time out they do kick in two clones.

    I tested this at least 5 times in a row. In every instance the second pair of resummoned phantasms each give me a clone.

    Is this for future patch notes? Because currently it's working exactly like the traits tooltip saids. So maybe they removed that portion? I could be wrong I just don't understand then why it's working exactly as advertised. Yet it's apparently not supposed to do that according to what you are telling. Believe me I'm not saying you are wrong but this is just extremely weird if that is what is supposed to happen. Because according to my tests that isn't actually happening.

    Please try it and get back to me. Because I'm baffled. :)

    The wording is weird. Here's the exact notes:

    "Chronophantasma: This trait now causes phantasms to resummon themselves after the first time they would normally be replaced with a clone. A phantasm that resummons itself will not create a clone."

    It works as intended. A Phantasm resummons itself after the attack rather than making a clone once. Afterwards the resummoned Phantasm becomes a clone. It's confusing wording.

    Okay so interpreted one way. Then phantasms that resummon themselves don't create clones but instead create another phantasm. Those resummoned phantasms do create clones.

    So in reality resummoned phantasms do create clones. Just not the parent ones. Which is why they probably didn't bother to change the tooltip and instead reworded it to the current iteration. Which is correct. The current tooltip fits that description nicely. "The first time a phantasm would become a clone, it instead resummons itself and attacks again." So instead of creating a clone it resummons itself and attacks. Those resummoned ones become clones. This is probably why they got rid of the initial notes in the text.

    chronophantasma.jpg

    Thanks for posting the original dev notes. It's interesting to see how they originally worded it.

  • I do like chronophantasma for the dps component it offers though I do wonder if they ever tinkered around with having chronophantasma give phantasms the ammo mechanic like shatter storm does. Then the phantasms could be cast twice and still give a clone afterwards. Maybe they did and they found it too crazy.

  • RabbitUp.8294RabbitUp.8294 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xerek.7864 said:
    I do like chronophantasma for the dps component it offers though I do wonder if they ever tinkered around with having chronophantasma give phantasms the ammo mechanic like shatter storm does. Then the phantasms could be cast twice and still give a clone afterwards. Maybe they did and they found it too crazy.

    Echo of Memory on ammo? I doubt they would want that. Actually, I don't think it's even possible for an ammo skill to have a flip skill.

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭

    Im very confused now about who is Fay and who is pyro. Thought they were the same person!

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:

    @Xerek.7864 said:
    I do like chronophantasma for the dps component it offers though I do wonder if they ever tinkered around with having chronophantasma give phantasms the ammo mechanic like shatter storm does. Then the phantasms could be cast twice and still give a clone afterwards. Maybe they did and they found it too crazy.

    Echo of Memory on ammo? I doubt they would want that. Actually, I don't think it's even possible for an ammo skill to have a flip skill.

    Well echo of memory is basically an ammo skill if you block an attack.
    Lets say it has 2 charges but deja vu is not a thing anymore. Skill basically stays the same except that you always can use it twice now instead of waiting to block stuff.
    But personally i think it would break stiff more if other phantasms can be used twice on will.
    I like the actual chronophantasma how it is now, but they could tune down the daze when they are summoned a second time.

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