Why isnt KDR a bigger part of the war score in wvw? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why isnt KDR a bigger part of the war score in wvw?

NooB.9702NooB.9702 Member ✭✭
edited March 13, 2018 in WvW

This is just an example, I am not trying to throw anyone under the bus here...

Right now Maguuma is in t3 and it looks like they are gonna stay. Their kdr is 2:1, Tarnished Coast has a kd of 0.66, and Crystal Desert is at 0.88. Last night, during prime time, we had a zerg trying to form in eb. Maguuma's kdr jumped to 4:1 and the zerg dispersed because they could not get started. Maguuma just watched, outnumbered, and slaughtered anyone coming from the keep, leading to the dispersion. So, why is Maguuma apparently struggling to move up? They have war in gw2 perfected and no one in t3 can even come close to matching them. Yet they are low in score for t3. I feel that a lot of guilds do not run when against Maguuma, this cost anet money because people quit for full weeks every other week when they face Maguuma. Some players lose interest and do not return. By making KDR a bigger part of warscore, servers that try to stack will go to t1, if they get too stressed they will move servers and generate anet money. At this time, maguuma can hold a waypointed smc against bg (the defacto and so far permanent t1 server), and keep kdr far above 1:1 while in t1. Allowing such a stong server to go into low teirs, where it is not a challenge for them, would seemingly cost Anet money. So why allow a superior server, who can hold a wp against bg in t1, with a high kdr while in t1, into t3 where absolutely no one can defend against them? This is supposed to be a competition, shouldn't the strongest server win?

<13456

Comments

  • NooB.9702NooB.9702 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.

    Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in boredom, hard feelings, and resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary). Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat! You know I have a point here.

  • NooB.9702NooB.9702 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @NooB.9702 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.

    Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw and see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in hard boredom, feelings, resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary).You know I have a point here. Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat!

    You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG by thinking they will simply transfer off from being in T1. Your solution is a non-starter because you are only thinking of Maguuma, not the effect it would have on the entire game. The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers.

    So, you suggest keeping ebg a ghost town for entire weeks at a time. upping the kdr influence on score will work to keep servers like mag, who are SUPER efficient at killing (the point of metabattle?!?) in higher tiers. The guilds will move to lower tiers for better fights. Why not try changing the warscore before the major overhaul, which may be more than a year away?

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NooB.9702 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @NooB.9702 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.

    Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw and see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in hard boredom, feelings, resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary).You know I have a point here. Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat!

    You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG by thinking they will simply transfer off from being in T1. Your solution is a non-starter because you are only thinking of Maguuma, not the effect it would have on the entire game. The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers.

    So, you suggest keeping ebg a ghost town for entire weeks at a time. upping the kdr influence on score will work to keep servers like mag, who are SUPER efficient at killing (the point of metabattle?!?) in higher tiers. The guilds will move to lower tiers for better fights. Why not try changing the warscore before the major overhaul, which may be more than a year away?

    Mag is only super efficient at stacking into EBG and killing players there while defending upgraded EBG structures. Your suggestion encourages more of that and would worsen the ghost towns that already occur on borderland maps.

  • NooB.9702NooB.9702 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @NooB.9702 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @NooB.9702 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.

    Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw and see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in hard boredom, feelings, resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary).You know I have a point here. Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat!

    You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG by thinking they will simply transfer off from being in T1. Your solution is a non-starter because you are only thinking of Maguuma, not the effect it would have on the entire game. The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers.

    So, you suggest keeping ebg a ghost town for entire weeks at a time. upping the kdr influence on score will work to keep servers like mag, who are SUPER efficient at killing (the point of metabattle?!?) in higher tiers. The guilds will move to lower tiers for better fights. Why not try changing the warscore before the major overhaul, which may be more than a year away?

    Mag is only super efficient at stacking into EBG and killing players there while defending upgraded EBG structures. Your suggestion encourages more of that and would worsen the ghost towns that already occur on borderland maps.

    Why just make a comment without saying why or how? It is like stating "just because I say so." Not a marketable skill.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    you dont register kills from outnumbered players though

    Slayers XD. Love wvw? Prove it. Join NSP.

  • Drinks.2361Drinks.2361 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG

    Mag did exactly the same thing in T1 vs BG as they're doing now in T3, it's just nobody wants to deal with a stupid amount of siege to take a structure

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @NooB.9702 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @NooB.9702 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @NooB.9702 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.

    Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw and see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in hard boredom, feelings, resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary).You know I have a point here. Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat!

    You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG by thinking they will simply transfer off from being in T1. Your solution is a non-starter because you are only thinking of Maguuma, not the effect it would have on the entire game. The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers.

    So, you suggest keeping ebg a ghost town for entire weeks at a time. upping the kdr influence on score will work to keep servers like mag, who are SUPER efficient at killing (the point of metabattle?!?) in higher tiers. The guilds will move to lower tiers for better fights. Why not try changing the warscore before the major overhaul, which may be more than a year away?

    Mag is only super efficient at stacking into EBG and killing players there while defending upgraded EBG structures. Your suggestion encourages more of that and would worsen the ghost towns that already occur on borderland maps.

    Why just make a comment without saying why or how? It is like stating "just because I say so." Not a marketable skill.

    What? I would be repeating myself. See "The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers." Also see what another poster wrote: "If KDR was a bigger part of the score, then lots of servers would adopt this sort of game play. And I think it would make the game very dull. Lots of even fights are fun for me. I do like the karma & skirmish rewards we get for purging a map clean of foes, but it's also boring."

  • NooB.9702NooB.9702 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @NooB.9702 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @NooB.9702 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @NooB.9702 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.

    Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw and see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in hard boredom, feelings, resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary).You know I have a point here. Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat!

    You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG by thinking they will simply transfer off from being in T1. Your solution is a non-starter because you are only thinking of Maguuma, not the effect it would have on the entire game. The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers.

    So, you suggest keeping ebg a ghost town for entire weeks at a time. upping the kdr influence on score will work to keep servers like mag, who are SUPER efficient at killing (the point of metabattle?!?) in higher tiers. The guilds will move to lower tiers for better fights. Why not try changing the warscore before the major overhaul, which may be more than a year away?

    Mag is only super efficient at stacking into EBG and killing players there while defending upgraded EBG structures. Your suggestion encourages more of that and would worsen the ghost towns that already occur on borderland maps.

    Why just make a comment without saying why or how? It is like stating "just because I say so." Not a marketable skill.

    What? I would be repeating myself. See "The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers." Also see what another poster wrote: "If KDR was a bigger part of the score, then lots of servers would adopt this sort of game play. And I think it would make the game very dull. Lots of even fights are fun for me. I do like the karma & skirmish rewards we get for purging a map clean of foes, but it's also boring."

    Are you on maguuma? Your comment is exactly what is being done right now, and fixing it could be something as simple as making an adjustment that doubles kill score when a wp smc is owned and the kdr is over 1.5:1. that would be a game changer for stacked servers. Where dominating the most popular battleground (eb) would lead to a bigger score and match servers who could defend against such an onslaught. You should hear the disappointment in a guilds driver when he/she tags down after being against a server that just wants to pirate ship and bandwagon for the easiest kills. Not touching a boarderland, unless there is a zerg to break, leads to an unbalance that demoralizes guilds, and causes them to disperse early and lose players over time.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    LOL. No, I'm not on Maguuma. You are ignoring what people are telling you. Mag does the same thing in T1 and nobody there wants to deal with it either. Your "solution" of rewarding that with higher warscore would encourage more servers to play like that.

  • NooB.9702NooB.9702 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    LOL. No, I'm not on Maguuma. You are ignoring what people are telling you. Mag does the same thing in T1 and nobody there wants to deal with it either. Your "solution" of rewarding that with higher warscore would encourage more servers to play like that.

    Ignoring is encouraging. I understand that you think, I have read your posts. However, ignoring what is being done is the same as stating, its fine. All guilds disperse for the weeks mag is here in t3. T3! A lot of people are not playing, paying, and this erodes the game more, and all through simply allowing groups to win by losing! This is "Guild Wars," in what war does kdr not determine victory? I think Japan surrendered in 24 hours!

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭

    Does warscore even matter? Nope. So it really doesn't matter what gets you points tbh. Only reason to win or lose in this gamemode is getting the certain server match ups you desire.

    Maguuma NA.

    It's not the Illuminati! It's the Maguumanati!

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    Well just killing shouldn't be enuf to win the matchup.
    Being stronger than enemy should indicate you are capable of taking t3 keeps from them and upgrading yours but with the current system where defending is too advantageous for defenders, most groups just try to rush in or don't try at all.

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander/scout/roamer
    FSP/alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend
    Overconfident [OCD]/Peak Time [Peak]
    Sharing group focused builds for WvW http://www.tinyurl.com/ribabuilds

  • NooB.9702NooB.9702 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @hunkamania.7561 said:
    Does warscore even matter? Nope. So it really doesn't matter what gets you points tbh. Only reason to win or lose in this gamemode is getting the certain server match ups you desire.

    I agree with what you are implying for your server!

  • Because winning battles doesn't mean you will win the war.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    You are struggling against T3 servers.
    ....and pointing to your KDR again.

    The real question is why Maguuma players meme themselves.

  • shiri.4257shiri.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    If you have middle fort you beat the game regardless of PPK or PPT. every wvw vet knows this.

    Spectre [VII] - Wood League Champion. Making "fight guilds" stack on higher tiers since 2013.

  • Drinks.2361Drinks.2361 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Threather.9354 said:
    Being stronger than enemy should indicate you are capable of taking t3 keeps from them

    Mag can take anything on the map they want, [VR] & [KEK] auto attacked their way though a defended T3 keep last night. Trouble is that it's not fun to do, it takes too long & even worse the defenders just glide away once you breach the walls.

    The HoT changes to WvW are like if they decided to make PUBG a trench warfare game

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Drinks.2361 said:

    @Threather.9354 said:
    Being stronger than enemy should indicate you are capable of taking t3 keeps from them

    Mag can take anything on the map they want, [VR] & [KEK] auto attacked their way though a defended T3 keep last night. Trouble is that it's not fun to do, it takes to long & even worse the defenders just glide away once you breach the walls.

    The HoT changes to WvW are like if they decided to make PUBG a trench warfare game

    Yea it definitely takes too long. You cant even use trebs, catas or omegas anymore because shield gens counter them . My point was more of normal EU pug blobs where 1 server can be much stronger than the enemy one but still feel like 2xclaim buff, tactics, siege, chokes, billion health walls/gates etc are maybe too much to take,

    It's not fun to pummel your head against a keep for 2 hours after all. Especially since theres almost 0 chance you will get in unless you go with rams and 80% of players manage to somehow survive getting through that gatechoke with 8 elite bubblahs.

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander/scout/roamer
    FSP/alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend
    Overconfident [OCD]/Peak Time [Peak]
    Sharing group focused builds for WvW http://www.tinyurl.com/ribabuilds

  • NooB.9702NooB.9702 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Guess I will reply for the 3rd time, it's very simple reasons as to why they are in t3 right now.

    1. Maguuma is fill with players who want to fight, they will not actively ppt. There is plenty of evidence of this when they don't usually take over borderlands including their own which has very few defenders most times, players will not leave ebg to go defend keeps there. Enemy servers will take and upgrade Mag keeps to t3 often, even TC and CD are doing this.
    2. EBG is the real Maguuma home borderland to them, SMC is the one place they will take and defend because it draws fights very often (how many times over how many years now does this need to be stated?). In T1 they manage to hold SMC because BG and SoS eventually give up on hardcore trying to take it. That doesn't mean Mag is the same size as BG and able to take them on, far from it, as stated by a dev BG has almost twice as much population as any other NA server.
    3. The link servers to Maguuma are the ones that have the most ppt type commanders or guilds, AR does not have that many players as stated by their players a few times in the forums, they are not getting the ppt from there to keep them in T2. Mag barely has any main guilds left and most of them will look to get a fight first, that may include hitting something to draw enemies onto the map, which brings up the next point.
    4. If the situation presents itself, Mag will hit a keep in EBG to draw enemies to defend it and maybe stretch them out into the open field, this of course barely happens and sometimes the fights on the keep under heavy siege goes on for hours. People complain about Mag siege, but for Mag it's like every server they face uses as much siege as YB. When they finally break a side they will hang around and camp the spawn if players keep coming out the front door which just encourages them to stay. They're not focusing you, they take turns beating up a side every night, and this usually only happens in pst time.
    5. Last week we had a tie in T2, so no movement was made between T2 and T3, you can blame anet for not implementing some type of tie break system, such as whomever had the most 1st or 2nd skirmish placements wins the tie.
    6. Not much point trying to fix Maguuma points when Alliances are coming and servers won't matter anymore, coverage should also even out, you won't be facing pure ppt or pure siege or pure fight servers anymore.
    7. If you want Mag to leave the tier, then stop ppting their borderland so much. But if you think beating them in the ppt war is also a great thing then go ahead, they don't care, they won't out ppt you.
    8. Anet is not losing money over this, people are not going to move since we know the alliance system is in the works and will be here in the future. Players will still buy cosmetic and convenience items regardless of how their server is doing in wvw.
    9. Increasing the kdr points will help mag, sure, but it will start to discourage players from going out and fighting and just stay holed up in their structures to earn points instead. We have seen servers acting this way already as it is.

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    I can't speak about everything Maguuma was doing last night in EB. What I did see was two groups, one running about 25-30 & another about 7-10 (with the usual variations over time, as WvWers come & go). Both groups would only besiege objectives if it was poorly defended; they ran from any fight where they had less than a 2:1 or 3:1 advantage. (That included camps.) They would frequently remain outside an objective, not using siege, to pick off any foes attempting to get in to defend.

    Consequently, they didn't die very often and their outnumbered opponents were efficiently converted into bags.

    Assuming my narrow observational data was typical, that would generate impressive KDR and almost no points-per-tick.

    If KDR was a bigger part of the score, then lots of servers would adopt this sort of game play. And I think it would make the game very dull. Lots of even fights are fun for me. I do like the karma & skirmish rewards we get for purging a map clean of foes, but it's also boring.

    To be clear, I don't see anything wrong or unfair about what I perceive Mags to be doing; I just wouldn't enjoy the game mode as much if that was typical of every match up, every week. Your mileage might vary.

    You don't see the major wipes from TC and CD zergs, very costly mistakes are made by their commanders very often. Just last night CD had their zerg wiped twice in five mins in ogrewatch. Camping a couple roamers in a camp doesn't give you a huge kdr like that, wiping entire zergs out often does that. That doesn't mean Mag doesn't wipe in fights, but they do it a lot less than their two opponents which in the long run is obviously going to net them more kills than deaths.

    Number 7, the reason people ppt on the boarderlands is because they can not fight in eb. And they can not show they have numbers to mag because mag will follow them and pewpew them to death. The lack of real fighting is due to not being able to defend, or generate downs at all. Because maguuma is a stronger server, more advanced at winning fights (and losing tbh). A stronger server than should be in t3 is in t3, and where there is usually a tag or two on every bl, there are only one or two. That is a lot less people playing when facing maguuma. Outta sight outta mind, player retention is ignored here.

    Point number nine is a bit off i think, making kdr higher in score will generate more rewards. Anet could just decrease the already obscene amount of rewards to adjust for the kdr shift. If servers are against other servers that can defend themselves against death, then they will play more and get satisfaction for growing their guilds bigger. Players will be happier, move more, make more pretties for their toon, all while keeping moral in check. Moral drops when players can not leave eb keep because they are defeated in seconds. I had a guild take 2 months off over it, i quit them over that. I have seen commanders with huge guilds disappear. Die hards that would find more joy if they won at least one of three fights, but against Maguuma they win one in ten.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    If they increase kdr points then players will feel more conscience about their virtual deaths giving points to the enemy and stop showing up for fights, they'll just run away more often than they do now. I think that's the reason why anet didn't want to award points for kills in the first place, that and not wanting to do kill trading. The alliance system is going to shake up populations anyways so it's pointless making a change for one server and it's culture that won't exist in the future.

    They are not making or losing money on this situation, as I said people will not be transferring often right now because of the alliance system coming in the future, and winning or losing a match has no bearing on cosmetic or convenience items a player may purchase, the item being on sale will though (come on anet put copper fed salvage on sale already please).

    @NooB.9702 said:
    Number 7, the reason people ppt on the boarderlands is because they can not fight in eb. And they can not show they have numbers to mag because mag will follow them and pewpew them to death. The lack of real fighting is due to not being able to defend, or generate downs at all. Because maguuma is a stronger server, more advanced at winning fights (and losing tbh). A stronger server than should be in t3 is in t3, and where there is usually a tag or two on every bl, there are only one or two. That is a lot less people playing when facing maguuma. Outta sight outta mind, player retention is ignored here.

    And you know they won't defend their home borderland much, so either you go to tc or cd bl and ppt there. Don't know why TC was ppting so hard last week or this week for that matter. Also if you haven't realized, every week there are servers in tiers they shouldn't be in, even Mag or FA or YB or DB or JQ are t2 servers that get boosted into t1 every week, or sometimes thrown to t3 where they also don't belong, that's the nature of 1u1d.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    Maguuma: Free ppt, come and get it!

  • NooB.9702NooB.9702 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    If they increase kdr points then players will feel more conscience about their virtual deaths giving points to the enemy and stop showing up for fights, they'll just run away more often than they do now. I think that's the reason why anet didn't want to award points for kills in the first place, that and not wanting to do kill trading. The alliance system is going to shake up populations anyways so it's pointless making a change for one server and it's culture that won't exist in the future.

    They are not making or losing money on this situation, as I said people will not be transferring often right now because of the alliance system coming in the future, and winning or losing a match has no bearing on cosmetic or convenience items a player may purchase, the item being on sale will though (come on anet put copper fed salvage on sale already please).

    I have said it numerous times, increase kdr influence when a waypointed smc is held and kdr is above 1.5:1. This would drive the stronger server up to higher teirs, cause smc to switch hands more, and deny servers like maguuma the ability to stand at smc and watch red keep for kills.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NooB.9702 said:
    Point number nine is a bit off i think, making kdr higher in score will generate more rewards. Anet could just decrease the already obscene amount of rewards to adjust for the kdr shift. If servers are against other servers that can defend themselves against death, then they will play more and get satisfaction for growing their guilds bigger. Players will be happier, move more, make more pretties for their toon, all while keeping moral in check. Moral drops when players can not leave eb keep because they are defeated in seconds. I had a guild take 2 months off over it, i quit them over that. I have seen commanders with huge guilds disappear. Die hards that would find more joy if they won at least one of three fights, but against Maguuma they win one in ten.

    It just doesn't happen the way you think. Here's what those other servers that you think can defend themselves against Mag do: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29673/spawncamping-siege

  • shiri.4257shiri.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    the ebg mag cloud is more challenging than most guild groups. they make u pay for over extending or lagging behind in the tail. its an unconventional fight so people don't like it. being outnumbered is relative to morale. NA EST/PST all 3 servers in current matchup can queue maps so its technically even numbers. Just morale goes down when u lose some fights and thats a snowball effect.

    Spectre [VII] - Wood League Champion. Making "fight guilds" stack on higher tiers since 2013.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    If they didn't spawn camp they wouldn't be able to create photo gems like these.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    Maguuma: Free ppt, come and get it!

  • NooB.9702NooB.9702 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    If they didn't spawn camp they wouldn't be able to create photo gems like these.

    That is crazy, but what servers see for sometimes full weeks while playing against Maguuma. I have seen Mag wp SBI keep and keep it all week!

  • NooB.9702NooB.9702 Member ✭✭
    edited March 13, 2018

    @Shazmataz.1423 said:
    Inclusion of kdr in scoring has already created the "run from fights and hide in tower" (or hug smc) mentality....it's like pixel death results in real life death with some guilds and servers.

    KDR has given us a situation where alot groups will run from fights unless they vastly outnumber and will be assured of a win. Instead of encouraging fights it seems to have had the opposite effect. There needs to be some other way of encouraging fights over ppt but I'm not sure kdr in it's present form is it.

    Maguuma is a real problem in that as a server it manipulates matches and has a toxic playstyle. I don't think there is one server that would say they like having Mag in their matchup. If your group does win a fight against a mag group that has even numbers (that's if they stay to fight in such a situation) then be prepared to have your tag pin sniped and your group blobbed down because Mag kdr must be protected at all costs.

    No, dieing and respawning makes people run to and hide in towers.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NooB.9702 said:
    That is crazy, but what servers see for sometimes full weeks while playing against Maguuma. I have seen Mag wp SBI keep and keep it all week!

    BG and SoS do that every week to the 3rd place server in t1....

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    Maguuma: Free ppt, come and get it!

  • Shazmataz.1423Shazmataz.1423 Member ✭✭✭

    @NooB.9702
    Have you got precious pixels?

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭

    In short,

    The servers that care about "winning" (aka, PPT-ing, running dolyaks, having players sitting on siege), tend to either not be good at or not care about KDR.

    The servers that care about KDR (aka, PPK-ing, running zergs, spawncamping and open-field fights), tend to either not be good at, or not care about "winning".

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