Donfrigginjuan.5096 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 This is just an example, I am not trying to throw anyone under the bus here...Right now Maguuma is in t3 and it looks like they are gonna stay. Their kdr is 2:1, Tarnished Coast has a kd of 0.66, and Crystal Desert is at 0.88. Last night, during prime time, we had a zerg trying to form in eb. Maguuma's kdr jumped to 4:1 and the zerg dispersed because they could not get started. Maguuma just watched, outnumbered, and slaughtered anyone coming from the keep, leading to the dispersion. So, why is Maguuma apparently struggling to move up? They have war in gw2 perfected and no one in t3 can even come close to matching them. Yet they are low in score for t3. I feel that a lot of guilds do not run when against Maguuma, this cost anet money because people quit for full weeks every other week when they face Maguuma. Some players lose interest and do not return. By making KDR a bigger part of warscore, servers that try to stack will go to t1, if they get too stressed they will move servers and generate anet money. At this time, maguuma can hold a waypointed smc against bg (the defacto and so far permanent t1 server), and keep kdr far above 1:1 while in t1. Allowing such a stong server to go into low teirs, where it is not a challenge for them, would seemingly cost Anet money. So why allow a superior server, who can hold a wp against bg in t1, with a high kdr while in t1, into t3 where absolutely no one can defend against them? This is supposed to be a competition, shouldn't the strongest server win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Well, WvW is a game of objectives. If you kill a lot but fail at getting the objectives, you're being as useless as a guy fighting 2v1 and winning off-point in conquest while his team is losing all points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimator.3589 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 PPK isn't a bigger part of war score because Anet's chosen ones coughBGcough like PPT better. The only reason BG typically have as high a KDR as they do is because they mostly refuse to come out and fight without superior numbers. FWIW, we PPT'd a bit harder than normal last week to get back into T2 where the better fights are, but the tie in T2 kept us in T3. No idea why TC is PPTing so hard last week and this week. Not what I remember them being like. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donfrigginjuan.5096 Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 @"Chaba.5410" said:Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in boredom, hard feelings, and resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary). Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat! You know I have a point here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 @NooB.9702 said:@"Chaba.5410" said:Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw and see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in hard boredom, feelings, resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary).You know I have a point here. Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat!You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG by thinking they will simply transfer off from being in T1. Your solution is a non-starter because you are only thinking of Maguuma, not the effect it would have on the entire game. The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 I can't speak about everything Maguuma was doing last night in EB. What I did see was two groups, one running about 25-30 & another about 7-10 (with the usual variations over time, as WvWers come & go). Both groups would only besiege objectives if it was poorly defended; they ran from any fight where they had less than a 2:1 or 3:1 advantage. (That included camps.) They would frequently remain outside an objective, not using siege, to pick off any foes attempting to get in to defend.Consequently, they didn't die very often and their outnumbered opponents were efficiently converted into bags. Assuming my narrow observational data was typical, that would generate impressive KDR and almost no points-per-tick. If KDR was a bigger part of the score, then lots of servers would adopt this sort of game play. And I think it would make the game very dull. Lots of even fights are fun for me. I do like the karma & skirmish rewards we get for purging a map clean of foes, but it's also boring.To be clear, I don't see anything wrong or unfair about what I perceive Mags to be doing; I just wouldn't enjoy the game mode as much if that was typical of every match up, every week. Your mileage might vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donfrigginjuan.5096 Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 @Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw and see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in hard boredom, feelings, resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary).You know I have a point here. Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat!You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG by thinking they will simply transfer off from being in T1. Your solution is a non-starter because you are only thinking of Maguuma, not the effect it would have on the entire game. The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers. So, you suggest keeping ebg a ghost town for entire weeks at a time. upping the kdr influence on score will work to keep servers like mag, who are SUPER efficient at killing (the point of metabattle?!?) in higher tiers. The guilds will move to lower tiers for better fights. Why not try changing the warscore before the major overhaul, which may be more than a year away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 @NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw and see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in hard boredom, feelings, resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary).You know I have a point here. Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat!You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG by thinking they will simply transfer off from being in T1. Your solution is a non-starter because you are only thinking of Maguuma, not the effect it would have on the entire game. The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers.So, you suggest keeping ebg a ghost town for entire weeks at a time. upping the kdr influence on score will work to keep servers like mag, who are SUPER efficient at killing (the point of metabattle?!?) in higher tiers. The guilds will move to lower tiers for better fights. Why not try changing the warscore before the major overhaul, which may be more than a year away?Mag is only super efficient at stacking into EBG and killing players there while defending upgraded EBG structures. Your suggestion encourages more of that and would worsen the ghost towns that already occur on borderland maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donfrigginjuan.5096 Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 @Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw and see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in hard boredom, feelings, resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary).You know I have a point here. Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat!You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG by thinking they will simply transfer off from being in T1. Your solution is a non-starter because you are only thinking of Maguuma, not the effect it would have on the entire game. The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers.So, you suggest keeping ebg a ghost town for entire weeks at a time. upping the kdr influence on score will work to keep servers like mag, who are SUPER efficient at killing (the point of metabattle?!?) in higher tiers. The guilds will move to lower tiers for better fights. Why not try changing the warscore before the major overhaul, which may be more than a year away?Mag is only super efficient at stacking into EBG and killing players there while defending upgraded EBG structures. Your suggestion encourages more of that and would worsen the ghost towns that already occur on borderland maps.Why just make a comment without saying why or how? It is like stating "just because I say so." Not a marketable skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 you dont register kills from outnumbered players though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drinks.2361 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 @Chaba.5410 said:You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG Mag did exactly the same thing in T1 vs BG as they're doing now in T3, it's just nobody wants to deal with a stupid amount of siege to take a structure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 @NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw and see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in hard boredom, feelings, resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary).You know I have a point here. Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat!You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG by thinking they will simply transfer off from being in T1. Your solution is a non-starter because you are only thinking of Maguuma, not the effect it would have on the entire game. The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers.So, you suggest keeping ebg a ghost town for entire weeks at a time. upping the kdr influence on score will work to keep servers like mag, who are SUPER efficient at killing (the point of metabattle?!?) in higher tiers. The guilds will move to lower tiers for better fights. Why not try changing the warscore before the major overhaul, which may be more than a year away?Mag is only super efficient at stacking into EBG and killing players there while defending upgraded EBG structures. Your suggestion encourages more of that and would worsen the ghost towns that already occur on borderland maps.Why just make a comment without saying why or how? It is like stating "just because I say so." Not a marketable skill.What? I would be repeating myself. See "The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers." Also see what another poster wrote: "If KDR was a bigger part of the score, then lots of servers would adopt this sort of game play. And I think it would make the game very dull. Lots of even fights are fun for me. I do like the karma & skirmish rewards we get for purging a map clean of foes, but it's also boring." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donfrigginjuan.5096 Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 @Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw and see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in hard boredom, feelings, resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary).You know I have a point here. Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat!You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG by thinking they will simply transfer off from being in T1. Your solution is a non-starter because you are only thinking of Maguuma, not the effect it would have on the entire game. The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers.So, you suggest keeping ebg a ghost town for entire weeks at a time. upping the kdr influence on score will work to keep servers like mag, who are SUPER efficient at killing (the point of metabattle?!?) in higher tiers. The guilds will move to lower tiers for better fights. Why not try changing the warscore before the major overhaul, which may be more than a year away?Mag is only super efficient at stacking into EBG and killing players there while defending upgraded EBG structures. Your suggestion encourages more of that and would worsen the ghost towns that already occur on borderland maps.Why just make a comment without saying why or how? It is like stating "just because I say so." Not a marketable skill.What? I would be repeating myself. See "The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers." Also see what another poster wrote: "If KDR was a bigger part of the score, then lots of servers would adopt this sort of game play. And I think it would make the game very dull. Lots of even fights are fun for me. I do like the karma & skirmish rewards we get for purging a map clean of foes, but it's also boring."Are you on maguuma? Your comment is exactly what is being done right now, and fixing it could be something as simple as making an adjustment that doubles kill score when a wp smc is owned and the kdr is over 1.5:1. that would be a game changer for stacked servers. Where dominating the most popular battleground (eb) would lead to a bigger score and match servers who could defend against such an onslaught. You should hear the disappointment in a guilds driver when he/she tags down after being against a server that just wants to pirate ship and bandwagon for the easiest kills. Not touching a boarderland, unless there is a zerg to break, leads to an unbalance that demoralizes guilds, and causes them to disperse early and lose players over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 LOL. No, I'm not on Maguuma. You are ignoring what people are telling you. Mag does the same thing in T1 and nobody there wants to deal with it either. Your "solution" of rewarding that with higher warscore would encourage more servers to play like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donfrigginjuan.5096 Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 @"Chaba.5410" said:LOL. No, I'm not on Maguuma. You are ignoring what people are telling you. Mag does the same thing in T1 and nobody there wants to deal with it either. Your "solution" of rewarding that with higher warscore would encourage more servers to play like that.Ignoring is encouraging. I understand that you think, I have read your posts. However, ignoring what is being done is the same as stating, its fine. All guilds disperse for the weeks mag is here in t3. T3! A lot of people are not playing, paying, and this erodes the game more, and all through simply allowing groups to win by losing! This is "Guild Wars," in what war does kdr not determine victory? I think Japan surrendered in 24 hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 @NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw and see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in hard boredom, feelings, resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary).You know I have a point here. Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat!You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG by thinking they will simply transfer off from being in T1. Your solution is a non-starter because you are only thinking of Maguuma, not the effect it would have on the entire game. The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers.So, you suggest keeping ebg a ghost town for entire weeks at a time. upping the kdr influence on score will work to keep servers like mag, who are SUPER efficient at killing (the point of metabattle?!?) in higher tiers. The guilds will move to lower tiers for better fights. Why not try changing the warscore before the major overhaul, which may be more than a year away?Mag is only super efficient at stacking into EBG and killing players there while defending upgraded EBG structures. Your suggestion encourages more of that and would worsen the ghost towns that already occur on borderland maps.Why just make a comment without saying why or how? It is like stating "just because I say so." Not a marketable skill.Pot meet kettle?Because, from what i've read, that play style is pretty much Anathema to what WvW is supposed to be. WvW is about capturing and defending objectives and structures, not killing more people. It's not a deathmatch it's a war. You can kill more people and lose a war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunkamania.7561 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Does warscore even matter? Nope. So it really doesn't matter what gets you points tbh. Only reason to win or lose in this gamemode is getting the certain server match ups you desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage.7145 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 @NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:@NooB.9702 said:@Chaba.5410 said:Because KDR is not a reflection of server performance but total numbers of kills is. Also, to make kills a bigger part of warscore would make "winning by numbers" worse than it already is by rewarding stacking and blobbing.Not being able to win stresses zergs to te point of dispersion, entire hours are spent without tags that would other wise be there. People coming into wvw and see this and leave, some simply log out. Too much disappointment ends in hard boredom, feelings, resentment. Who wants to play something based on resentment? It is all because another server wants to guild war ( the point, and why anet pushes ascended gear and gear changes, ie money ), and not ppt, (secondary).You know I have a point here. Less people is less money. less in wvw is less making ascended. Servers that can t3 with a kdr of 2:1 does not generate money from transfer. And players are stressed. It is a lose lose lose, triple threat!You're not going to break Maguuma of dominating EBG by thinking they will simply transfer off from being in T1. Your solution is a non-starter because you are only thinking of Maguuma, not the effect it would have on the entire game. The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers.So, you suggest keeping ebg a ghost town for entire weeks at a time. upping the kdr influence on score will work to keep servers like mag, who are SUPER efficient at killing (the point of metabattle?!?) in higher tiers. The guilds will move to lower tiers for better fights. Why not try changing the warscore before the major overhaul, which may be more than a year away?Mag is only super efficient at stacking into EBG and killing players there while defending upgraded EBG structures. Your suggestion encourages more of that and would worsen the ghost towns that already occur on borderland maps.Why just make a comment without saying why or how? It is like stating "just because I say so." Not a marketable skill.What? I would be repeating myself. See "The last thing we need is more servers staying only in EBG to farm kills as the most efficient way to move up tiers." Also see what another poster wrote: "If KDR was a bigger part of the score, then lots of servers would adopt this sort of game play. And I think it would make the game very dull. Lots of even fights are fun for me. I do like the karma & skirmish rewards we get for purging a map clean of foes, but it's also boring."Are you on maguuma? Your comment is exactly what is being done right now, and fixing it could be something as simple as making an adjustment that doubles kill score when a wp smc is owned and the kdr is over 1.5:1. that would be a game changer for stacked servers. Where dominating the most popular battleground (eb) would lead to a bigger score and match servers who could defend against such an onslaught. You should hear the disappointment in a guilds driver when he/she tags down after being against a server that just wants to pirate ship and bandwagon for the easiest kills. Not touching a boarderland, unless there is a zerg to break, leads to an unbalance that demoralizes guilds, and causes them to disperse early and lose players over time. KDR is a design flaw honestly it should just not exist, to prevent people from running from fights because they "don't wanna feed", real solution here is to make everything way easier to cap so maguuma people would actually bother to attack structures and move up on scores when all the score is decided by who fights better and not by who can siege up and turtle the most, lets face it nobody on maguuma (or anywhere that i know) want to ever attack any T3 structure, not even BG would try attack SMC when is T3, it is just cancer, siege is cancer, game is just bad, not fun, nobody wants to play like that. Want maguuma to move up? well just make everything easy to cap and let the score be decided on the battlefield by fighting force not by who throws the best siege disablers form the top of the wall.Servers like TC are bound to be farmed like this because the very own gameplay they defend (PPT, sit on a tower/keep with a ton of siege and defend for no reasson), if you take all that out WvW servers like mag would be somewhere else and TC would be facing equally unskilled opponents as they want, think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riba.3271 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Well just killing shouldn't be enuf to win the matchup.Being stronger than enemy should indicate you are capable of taking t3 keeps from them and upgrading yours but with the current system where defending is too advantageous for defenders, most groups just try to rush in or don't try at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donfrigginjuan.5096 Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 @hunkamania.7561 said:Does warscore even matter? Nope. So it really doesn't matter what gets you points tbh. Only reason to win or lose in this gamemode is getting the certain server match ups you desire.I agree with what you are implying for your server! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 I think recent posters have summed it up pretty well. One of the reasons Mag sits in EBG and why other servers don't attack Mag's T3 stuff in EBG is due to how much fun people are NOT having when trying to attack a defended T3 structure.One of the things some tags and guilds on my server do is actually let a T3 SMC flip because a paper SMC encourages more fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemis Thuras.8795 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Because winning battles doesn't mean you will win the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 You are struggling against T3 servers.....and pointing to your KDR again.The real question is why Maguuma players meme themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiri.4257 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 If you have middle fort you beat the game regardless of PPK or PPT. every wvw vet knows this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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