just some comparisons:

Soulbeast (with Brown Bear & Jacaranda/ GS+LB):

Uptime in a time period of 60 seconds for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges:

• Brown Bear Defy Pain: 3 sec invul with 40 sec cd -> 4,5 sec invul uptime in 60 seconds
• Signet of Stone: 6 seconds invul with 80 sec cd -> 4,5 sec invul in 60 seconds
• lesser signet of Stone: 5 sec invul with 70 sec cd -> ~4,2 sec invul in 60 seconds
• GS 4 Counterattack: 3 sec block with 15 seconds cd -> 4 x 3 sec = 12 sec block in 60 seconds
• Longbow 3 Hunters Shoot: 3 sec invis with 10 sec cd (skilled) -> 6 x 3 sec = 18 seconds invis uptime in 60 seconds
• lightning Reflexes: 3/4 sec dodge 32 seconds cd (skilled) -> 2 x 3/4 sec dodge = 1,5 sec dodge uptime in 60 seconds
• normal dodges with normal endurance Regeneration of 5 per second gives 1 new dodge every 10 seconds -> 6 x 3/4 sec dodges = 4,5 seconds dodge uptime in 60 seconds time period
• lets ignore vidor and other endurance regenerating effects

than we can sum up:49, 3 seconds uptime in 60 seconds for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges...thats ~82 % Uptime in a fight where you cannot clear attack him.

Heal of that class in 60 seconds:

• Brown Bear Spritual Reprive: ~4200 Heal 40 sec cd -> 6300 Heal in 60 sec
• Jacaranda Spritual Reprive: ~4200 Heal 40 sec cd -> 6300 Heal in 60 sec
• Jacaranda Photosynthesize: ~2500 Heal 20 sec cd -> 7500 Heal in 60 sec
• Troll unguent: 8000 Heal 20 sec cd (skilleld) -> 24000 Heal in 60 seconds.

to sum up: 43.100 Heal in a Minute + lifepoints pool of Minimum 16000.

to kill a soulbeast you Need to make nearly 60.000 dmg in a 10 second time window in one Minute where you can attack him. On an enemy that can leap 5 times 1000 Range with GS 3 = 5000 Range and knock back you 5 times per Minute for Minimum of 900 range. ignoring the Problem that necros first have to Close the gap to all ranger classes that can attack you on 1500 range...

Druid (with Bristle back & Smokescale/ GS+LB):

Change in comparison to soulbeast:

• no Defy Pain
• no pet healsCelestial Avatar 15 sec cd ( you can use it 3 times per Minute) -> 3 x 3 sec invis = 9 sec invis
• smoke Cloud pet f2 20 sec cd, also 3 times per Minute -> 3 x 3 sec invis = 9 sec invis

in 5 sec before leaving the Avatar form you can heal for 6000 Lifepoints every 20 seconds x 3 = 18000 Heal per Minute

to sum up:

he lost 4,5 seconds invul and gain 18 seconds invis so he have 62,8 sec Uptime for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges per Minute (perma uptime) with 42000 Heal per Minute. So you can only attack him clear WHILE he is attacking you.

Spellbreaker (GS+D/S):

Uptime in a time period of 60 seconds for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges:

• Full Counter: 1/2 sec Evasion 10 sec cd -> 6 x 1/2 sec = 3 sec per Minute
• GS 3 whirl wind: 3/4 sec Evasion 10 sec cd -> 6 x 3/4 = 4,5 sec per Minute
• shield 5 shield stance: 3 sec block 20 sec cd (skilled) = 9 sec block per Minute
• endure pain & lesser endure pain 4 sec invul 60 sec cd -> both together 8 sec invul per Minute
• normal dodges with normal endurance Regeneration of 5 per second gives 1 new dodge every 10 seconds -> 6 x 3/4 sec dodges = 4,5 seconds dodge uptime in 60 seconds time period

to sum up:

29 seconds uptime for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges per Minute.Thats 48,33 % Uptime.

Heal of that class in 60 seconds:

• Healing signet: 382 LP per second -> 22920 heal per minute
• Adrenal Health: 495 sec per sec (on Maximum) -> max 29700 heal per Minute ( maybe 15000-20000 realistic heal)

to sum up:37920-42920 heal per Minute.

Mirage (power):

Uptime in a time period of 60 seconds for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges:

• most mesmers playing vigor and Food combination to get every 5 seconds new dodge -> that gives 12 dodges per Minute for 1 sec invul = 12 sec invul by dodges per minute
• sowrd 3 blurd frenzy: 2,5 sec invul 12 sec cd -> 5 x 2,5 = 12,5 sec invul per Minute
• distortion till 3 sec invul 50 sec cd -> lets say 3 sec per Minute
• torch 4 the Prestige: 3 sec invis 30 sec cd -> 2 x 3 sec = 6 sec invis per Minute

to sum up:

33,5 sec uptime for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges per Minute.

Mobility:

• 2 blinks per Minute for 1200 range = 2400 range
• and 3 jaunt per Minute for 450 range = 1350 range
• and until 12 usgaes for sword Mirage 1 Mirage thrust: 600 range leap x 12 = 7200 range per minute

to sum up:

10.950 range per Minute...

heal per Minute:

• mirror 4,5k heal 15 sec cd -> 4 x 4,5k = 18000 heal per Minute
• 1k heal per shatter:
• mind wrack 12 sec cd -> 5 x 1 k heal = 5k heal per Minute
• cry of Frustration 25 sec cd -> 2 x 1k heal = 2k Heal
• Diversion 38 sec cd -> 1,5 x 1 k heal = 1, 5 k heal per Minute
• distortion 50 sec cd -> 1k heal per Minute

to sum up:

27,5 k heal per Minute

Reaper:

Uptime in a time period of 60 seconds for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges:

normal dodges with normal endurance Regeneration of 5 per second gives 1 new dodge every 10 seconds -> 6 x 3/4 sec dodges = 4,5 seconds dodge uptime in 60 seconds time period

thats all...

Heal per Minute:

your Soul is mine 4,5 k 20 sec cd -> 3 x 4,5 = 13500 heal per Minute.every other heal are small amounts when you successfully hits an enemy, while every other classes have save amounts of heal, necros doesnt have.

Lifeforce:yes you have LF, but LF will not safe you while your shroud is on cd. Lifeforce is not lifepoints, cause lifepoints dont decay with 1000 per second. lifeforce reg is in realtion to successfully hits to the enemy, but uptime for blocks etc. (see above) reduve number of hits dramatically. and the lack in mobility and stability decrease number of hits even more because when enemies are attackable i first have to run to them to hit them or i am stunned ( so i also cant hit them).

so i dont know, but seems very unbalanced for me...

@Zero.3871 said:so i dont know, but seems very unbalanced for me...

Yep. So?

You don't actually expect someone to balance it do you? Who would benefit from that? Not the people doing the balancing. Balance achieved = no more need for balance people.

Lawl!

Reaper is not ideal at roaming because it lacks mobility. That's all.

Blocks, Evades, Invuln. won't save you when you are slow.

Every class you mentioned has leaps or teleports. These make the difference

Give Necro a 3s block at a 10s cooldown (a clearly overpowered skill) and he will still be not ideal at roaming.

Some people (including me) thought we would finally get a roaming spec when Shroudless-Scourge was introduced. ANet could have dropped Shroud for mobility...

...but we got Barriers.

Seems to me that the solution is pretty simple; don't roam with a Reaper. Assuming you had all the mobility you could ask for, why would you roam with a reaper in the first place? Seems that it's not the best spec to run if you are doing that anyways.

reaper is fun but why roam on it when you can 1 shot people on thief or Mesmer...

Just toon select reaper for open world back to char select screen for optimal wvw, then again choose the appropriate pvp. Use all those slots. If you wanna win hit that or if youre like me who doesnt care i just 24/7 reaper and get what i get. Id like better stuff, but 5+ yrs of this grants me a decent perspective on whats the go. Just fashion wars it thats where the real actionz at.

I'm just thankful I experienced the 7 seconds shroud + Deathly Chill (3 bleed) era.That was the Reaper's golden era.Now, like roy said above, just Reaper for the fashion wars and place less emphasis on the effectiveness of it.

Why should specifically be the reaper that Necro build able to roam?

@Shirlias.8104 said:Why should specifically be the reaper that Necro build able to roam?

This discussion isn't about Reaper being the build that should specifically be able to roam, but discussing its viability as a roamer itself (at least that's what I think you were saying, your phrasing leaves much to be desired).

@Shirlias.8104 said:Why should specifically be the reaper that Necro build able to roam?

More sustain then scourge,more dmg then core.

@"Shirlias.8104" said:Why should specifically be the reaper that Necro build able to roam?

since anet started to nerf scourge and condis in General, scourge is supposed to be the "Support" spec for Groups. so reaper could be the spec for small scale, solo activities. reaper already was a good spec for that until anet destroyed every build for that.anet everytime told something about build diversity but on necromancer they killed step by step all builds for roaming without any compensation. i personally think that anet Team simply have no clue why necromancer dont work well, so here i listed some reasons for them.

I don't think that it is the point of that game, that every class should be suited to every gameplay-option. Maybe you have to find a other play-style for your Necro or just skill an other class for your rooming. Whatever you like more.

Reaper wasnt a "viable" roamer with HoT either - it only dominated WvW due to deathly chill. Some people where very good at it and roflstomped 90% of soft targets because nearly nothing could withstand the spin for the win. Carried by one trait on a class that didnt really offer any roaming advantage.

Not so much a problem with the reaper, a problem with the base necro. Reaper added little to improve on roaming.

@Gondolph.7201 said:I don't think that it is the point of that game, that every class should be suited to every gameplay-option. Maybe you have to find a other play-style for your Necro or just skill an other class for your rooming. Whatever you like more.

my Problem is, that reaper and core arent viable in anything while scourge get nerfed more and more, so this spec is only useful in zergs and spvp. what is the sense of having 3 specs on each class and finally have maybe just 1 spec viable in half of the game modes? if you have 3 specs per class you are absolutely able to bring the different specs to the different game modes.why should anet bring a new spec in the next Expansion? that we have 36 specs in the game and just a few viable? dont understand the logic...

I guess there will always be a more efficient build if compared to the others, and not necessarily you need the last expansion in order to play the most efficient.

Thief is a good example, with core for spvp and dd for pve.

However I do agree that by splitting skills between pve, wvw and spvp they could at least rework reaper into a more efficient pve dps ( just by fixing damage and maybe scourge decay ).

@Shirlias.8104 said:I guess there will always be a more efficient build if compared to the others, and not necessarily you need the last expansion in order to play the most efficient.

Thief is a good example, with core for spvp and dd for pve.

However I do agree that by splitting skills between pve, wvw and spvp they could at least rework reaper into a more efficient pve dps ( just by fixing damage and maybe scourge decay ).

The thing is that with it's visceral scythe leap, whirl, and ... [whatever shroud #5 is] animations, Reaper is the most fun to play class.. or.... was when those abilities were actually good.

Pre-shroud nerf Reaper was okay at roaming provided you were great at the class. You still couldn't lock down Thieves, Mesmers or Druids, but you could at least have some fun duking it out with them.

But yeah, it's more about mobility than anything.

@"Shirlias.8104" said:I guess there will always be a more efficient build if compared to the others, and not necessarily you need the last expansion in order to play the most efficient.

Thief is a good example, with core for spvp and dd for pve.

However I do agree that by splitting skills between pve, wvw and spvp they could at least rework reaper into a more efficient pve dps ( just by fixing damage and maybe scourge decay ).

What's amazing with the necromancer is that each and every e-spec are for WvW zerg. Core was almost balanced for WvW zerg fight (and only there), then came the reaper that was pushed toward WvW and now scourge which is basically designed to dominate WvW zerg fight. With each new addition the necromancer become stronger in WvW zerg fight and and gain little to nothing for the other area of the game where he has never been great. It's probably one of the major reason why the PvE necromancer's community is in a permanent infuriated state and complain days after days on this subforum. In PvE the necromancer barely live on gimmicks and die as soon as they are "fixed".

It's literally just a mobility issue.

I play roaming hybrid reaper and I only ever play on Desert Borderlands because without Blessing of Elements you're not good. You can't move to objectives as easily, you can't catch other roamers, you can't really do much at all unless you have that Blessing.

Alpine Borderlands is a waste of time because you don't have Blessing of Elements and you are forced to move over open spaces a lot of the time. You need to exploit LOS especially with GS 5 to be able to survive and do anything.

You do still have powerful tools, you can carry many corrupts and chew out classes like Warriors and Rangers, and with Curses/Master of Corruption you can use Corrosive Poison Cloud to cover your weaknesses- but even when you're on your best foot you are fighting an uphill battle against good Thieves, which automatically puts you in C tier at best.

Low mobility and low sustain on a melee-dominant kit is a recipe for disaster.

Reaper had a ton of roaming potential prior to the SoS nerfs and VP/RS life force nerfs because it could grind foes out of their defenses and counter-burst, but as it is now, the class is just strictly weak at virtually everything.

People complained about its PvE DPS being too low, so they made shroud a OTP spam and-expire tool to kill everything in the area and then twiddle its thumbs while AA'ing to do it all over again every 10s, which they had to nerf SoS to not make Scourge overpowered which killed the reaper.

Unfortunately the tactic of AA'ing and repeating a painfully simple rotation doesn't work in the PvP environments and never will.

As a side note for the OP, it's worth noting that GS block on ranger/soulbeast is not always 3s; it immediately ends with a huge tell/slow animation for Counterattack if any attacker strikes in melee range. Same said with mesmer and warrior OH sword blocks.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

As a side note for the OP, it's worth noting that GS block on ranger/soulbeast is not always 3s; it immediately ends with a huge tell/slow animation for Counterattack if any attacker strikes in melee range. Same said with mesmer and warrior OH sword blocks.

yeah , but as reaper i am very rare in that melee range to the ranger, so usually my attacks dont trigger the counterattack... :-/

@Sarrs.4831 said:It's literally just a mobility issue.

reaper was never fast, but worked good in the 2 month after hot release, because you had nearly perma staby on reaper. but atm reaper get stunned and knockbacked permanently, so its very hard to come in melee range to any foe.

anet just Need to give stability back to reaper, and give us 1 other defense tool. Problem is as reaper you get every hit enemy does to you, often i get chilled and chill has an effect to shroud cooldown. so often as reaper you have 15 seconds until next shroud entry is ready. 15 seconds when i dont have any defense mechanic up. thats simply toooo Long without defense. so you get terminated. if you would have something like signet of Stone (ranger invul), the new signet of Stone will have 3 sec invul with 40 sec cd, than you had something between your shroud uptimes you can use to negate dmg.so give spectral armor invul 3 sec with his current 40 sec cooldown and you have same skill like ranger. that would help alot to reach the next shroudentry...

Reaper roaming was great when we had better stab uptime. Now its just a trashboat of "hurr durr extra health makes people cry" so it has to be useless.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Low mobility and low sustain on a melee-dominant kit is a recipe for disaster.

Reaper had a ton of roaming potential prior to the SoS nerfs and VP/RS life force nerfs because it could grind foes out of their defenses and counter-burst, but as it is now, the class is just strictly weak at virtually everything.

People complained about its PvE DPS being too low, so they made shroud a OTP spam and-expire tool to kill everything in the area and then twiddle its thumbs while AA'ing to do it all over again every 10s, which they had to nerf SoS to not make Scourge overpowered which killed the reaper.

Unfortunately the tactic of AA'ing and repeating a painfully simple rotation doesn't work in the PvP environments and never will.

As a side note for the OP, it's worth noting that GS block on ranger/soulbeast is not always 3s; it immediately ends with a huge tell/slow animation for Counterattack if any attacker strikes in melee range. Same said with mesmer and warrior OH sword blocks.

Yep, pretty much.

With the upcoming skill splits, i hope they make some positive PvP/WvW changes for Reaper, but i'm not holding my breath.

@Zero.3871 said:

just some comparisons:

Soulbeast (with Brown Bear & Jacaranda/ GS+LB):

Uptime in a time period of 60 seconds for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges:

• Brown Bear Defy Pain: 3 sec invul with 40 sec cd -> 4,5 sec invul uptime in 60 seconds
• Signet of Stone: 6 seconds invul with 80 sec cd -> 4,5 sec invul in 60 seconds
• lesser signet of Stone: 5 sec invul with 70 sec cd -> ~4,2 sec invul in 60 seconds
• GS 4 Counterattack: 3 sec block with 15 seconds cd -> 4 x 3 sec = 12 sec block in 60 seconds
• Longbow 3 Hunters Shoot: 3 sec invis with 10 sec cd (skilled) -> 6 x 3 sec = 18 seconds invis uptime in 60 seconds
• lightning Reflexes: 3/4 sec dodge 32 seconds cd (skilled) -> 2 x 3/4 sec dodge = 1,5 sec dodge uptime in 60 seconds
• normal dodges with normal endurance Regeneration of 5 per second gives 1 new dodge every 10 seconds -> 6 x 3/4 sec dodges = 4,5 seconds dodge uptime in 60 seconds time period
• lets ignore vidor and other endurance regenerating effects

than we can sum up:49, 3 seconds uptime in 60 seconds for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges...thats ~82 % Uptime in a fight where you cannot clear attack him.

Heal of that class in 60 seconds:

• Brown Bear Spritual Reprive: ~4200 Heal 40 sec cd -> 6300 Heal in 60 sec
• Jacaranda Spritual Reprive: ~4200 Heal 40 sec cd -> 6300 Heal in 60 sec
• Jacaranda Photosynthesize: ~2500 Heal 20 sec cd -> 7500 Heal in 60 sec
• Troll unguent: 8000 Heal 20 sec cd (skilleld) -> 24000 Heal in 60 seconds.

to sum up: 43.100 Heal in a Minute + lifepoints pool of Minimum 16000.

to kill a soulbeast you Need to make nearly 60.000 dmg in a 10 second time window in one Minute where you can attack him. On an enemy that can leap 5 times 1000 Range with GS 3 = 5000 Range and knock back you 5 times per Minute for Minimum of 900 range. ignoring the Problem that necros first have to Close the gap to all ranger classes that can attack you on 1500 range...I think it's worth pointing out that the theoretical soulbeast you've analyzed here doesn't exist.

1) Spiritual Reprieve has a singular cooldown. Swapping to a second supportive pet does not reset the cooldown. So counting it as two separate heals doesn't really work.2) Marksmanship is required for the traited Signet of Stone. Some soulbeasts run this traitline but far from all do as its minor traits are lackluster.3) The Hunter's Shot for longbow has to actually hit something to grant the stealth. It won't hit everytime, so assuming 18 seconds stealth uptime in 60 seconds is not terribly accurate and Marksmanship is needed for the cooldown reduction of the skill.4) Since a second supportive pet won't grant a second Spiritual Reprieve, you won't see any halfway-decent soulbeasts running both jacaranda and brown bear. It's not realistic to assume a soulbeast will have both brown bear's Defy Pain and jacaranda's Photosynthesize.5) Traited Lightning Reflexes and traited Troll Ungeunt require the Wilderness Survival trait line. These skills and the traits for them are fairly common across soulbeast builds as the traits bring condi clear. The 8k heal looks fantastic on paper, but keep in mind that Troll Ungeunt delivers a 1k heal per second over eight seconds, requiring the eight seconds to do its full healing.