Kyhlo Treb Changes - Do you want this for WvW?

I'd have to go check this out before commenting. Do the trebs in the PvP lobby work the same?

Purists would probably say no, personally I'm on the fence. On one hand it would make them more easily usable by more people, which means you don't have to hope and pray for an experienced treb-user to be around. And certainly more practical to use in fights.

On the other hand I'm not sure how well this would work for far shots - possibly behind walls/mountains - where you still don't see where you're shooting despite the changes. Would probably work like it does for arrow carts? Which would be suboptimal.

I'm guessing a mode-switch to have benefits of both is not on the table?

I definitely wouldn't trade it wholesale, too many possible problems with far shots, which is one of the main uses of the thing. And as it is you can at least tell people to draw to 60% and shoot, for example.

But I'm still kind of curious to try it out in practice, since the conditions are so completely different in WvW. Maybe we can do another siege mini beta like we've had several times before? Might be a good idea to make a new, temporary, extra test-treb instead of overriding the old one, so as not to completely break established gameplay in case of issues.

EDIT: What I meant with mode-switch was having a button to switch between current skill-based targeting and ground-based targeting, like switching between different kinds of ammo. For example I'd use ground-based for artillery support in zerg-fights, while switching back to skill-based for tricky far shots (or just for the purpose of lazily holding down a button :D - laziness for the win!).

This is not a good idea for wvw for a variety of reasons. Relying on LoS makes trebs far less reliable because of its range and the arc of its fire. These factors allow better strategic placement of trebs. I would like to see an increase to the FoV when using a treb especially when they are placed against a wall because the camera zooms up into first person view. Maybe decrease the width of trebs idk. This idea might work better for mortars though because of their fixed placements, but might also make them more powerful.

On the other hand it would be useful for people to not have to constantly hold down the fire button and accidently over/under fire.

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We recently changed trebuchets in Battle of Kyhlo. We made the treb ground targeted and pulled the camera way up high.

We're curious if WvW players would want the WvW trebs changed in the same manner.

Yes.

this deals with the treb camper. ^^ maybe add as option to old treb as another skill instead?

i have a cripple guild mate and all he can do is treb. press one key with a straw.

maybe like have treb 2 settings?

The benefit from using a treb currently is that you can shoot above obstacles like hills and that its possible to shoot even further using an elevated position. Ground targeting would remove this two benefits, making them more useless.

If it helps stop the auto macro treb botters im all for it. If not dont really care either way.

Yes, make it ground targetted. While you're at it, move the red keep wall in EBG further back so it can't be trebbed from SMC.

I like the current state of WvW trebs. Making them too easy to aim would make trebs OP.

Lets not forget that besides hitting walls, trebuchets in WvW can drain structure supplies, can drain player supplies (with cows), can provide water fields.

Building countertrebs would cease to exist if the attackers can just destroy a counter build site without having to adjust through trial and error. Consider the Alpine NE tower, many times that tower is used to pressure Garrison walls with trebs, and if the people in Garrison tend to build a countertreb and/or shieldgens for it. With 2 trebs zeroed in on any build site going up, there would be no chance to take out the offending trebuchet. This situation repeats itself in many different scenarios: SWT vs BAY, NEC vs NET, NWC vs NWT, etc.

Making treb aiming a point and click mechanic just destroys all situational defensive siege placement and makes it way too easy to drain supply and cow enemies while providing water support to allies. These advantages should be earned through experience and/or trial and error adjustments.

@displayname.8315 said:If it helps stop the auto macro treb botters im all for it. If not dont really care either way.

You don't need a macro for that. I've used a two pence piece lodged between 2 and 3 keys.

Keep it as a skill shot, rather than point and click. Part of sieging is knowing where to build it, and sometimes fast-building before the opponent can react. If they can just click exactly on the build site, it ruins that whole counterplay mechanism.

@Ubi.4136 said:Yes, make it ground targetted. While you're at it, move the red keep wall in EBG further back so it can't be trebbed from SMC.

Considering red keep can also hit smc I don't think this really needs to be changed. Every side has two structures that can hit to and from smc, red has the benefit of doing it from the safety of their keep which does not get flipped often as a tower. The treb that needs to be built from smc to hit the keep also sits right next to or on top of the wall that's usually down from red keep trebbing, and if you can't sneak in a couple people to take that down I don't know what else to tell you other than stop being lazy.

But in any case they don't need to move anything, just make that one wall none breakable like they did for wildcreek, there's still another two to the side of it that can still be broken.

As for the treb change in general, the auto trebbing needs to be fixed, I'm not sure at what point they changed firing shots to be continuous but it just needs to go to get rid of the afkers trebbing for participation. Not sure about the line of sight changes, as it would depend on how high the camera would go. There are many places that require you to adjust and use the right power to hit spots over high obstacles, simple point and click is going to take away some of that skill and also break some of that creative usage. Places like swc camp to south bay wall/gate, se camp to hills inner, nw camp to nw tower, ne camp to ne tower, ne camp to north hills, ne ruins to garrison watergate, nw hills to west hills, klovan to smc.

No - no - no. Trebuchets take skill to use. If anything Arrow Carts should also work like trebs and not be point and click

I'd be okay with a change to the camera, but I feel the targeting should remain as it is. Not sure how I feel about using trebs to get better LoS into enemy structures.I understand why the change was made to the treb in Kyhlo. Those fights are faster paced and the goal is to hit the constantly moving players with the treb.Here the goal is more to take out enemy siege and break down walls, something that should take more time and is definitely slower paced.

If nothing else, run a test week. Like those mobile cannons, and repair hammers.

~ Kovu

I can understand why camera changes may be appealing, particularly when you don't have a spotter. I'm ambivalent regarding that change.

However, I'm not keen on making trebs ground-targetted. At the moment, judging the direction and range takes some degree of skill, particularly when you're under pressure to take out enemy siege before they can do the same to you. As there are precious few cases where using siege requires skill, I'd like to keep this one intact. The main problem with WvW-style trebuchets in Kyhlo is that wasting 30 seconds trying to line up a shot makes a measurable difference to the outcome. In WvW, the pace is much slower.

Lets just do best of both worlds keep the stander treb shot a charged attk with no ground targeting but make the cow shot and water shot into a ground targeting skill with there own cd with no need to swap ammo. Mostly the water shot all thought the cow shot has the same problem is long cd on a high skill shot with different travel time then the normal treb shot. This will let ppl have there skilled treb shots and get more out of the treb then the auto clicker shot players.

PLZ dont do that. wvw already get retarded because of gliding. why you want Change everything you Need experience for? let it as it is. if an experienced Player can use a treb to defend the garrison against several enemy trebs because he is more skilled in estimating range and direction than the others he earned that success. why destroying that by making treb usage completely skilless? this game Need more complexity! not less!

Tried them and love them for sPvP. It really does help make them useful again on kyhlo.

There's a bit of a fallacy in thinking this treb == WvW trebs. In WvW you can choose where to put them, and will usually have someone experienced with their use. sPvP Trebs can't rely in skill to use as if you unlucky enough to have no skilled treb users and get a skilled player on the other team It could decide the match there. WvW trebs are best left as they are mechanics wise.....

....Would like a ping on the map where shots land though :D

how about we try it and keep or revert based on feedback?

I would definitely welcome it. Only drawback could be that the vision might be used to gain an advantage in some situations.

TRY IT and revert if necessary imo

haha my gank squad will be null. @.@