Elusive Mind

I, and others, want an honest answer on EM Anet. We warned you about how ridiculously broken it was from the minute it was leaked, before the first beta weekend even. Despite months of warnings and discussions about EM, and mirage in general, you have continued to ignore all of these conversations.

Now you have finally decided to nerf it, and your solution was exhaustion. Anet, its already been discussed, nearly to death, as to why exhaustion both doesn't fit on mesmer in the first place, but, more importantly, wouldn't actually do anything to stop how ridiculously overpowered EM is, and you know it. In response to all of that, you stayed silent about it and simply lowered the duration of exhaustion applied by EM to 3 seconds instead of 4 when breaking a stun. Despite all of our discussions about how exhaustion doesn't even fix the problem with EM, you doubled down anyway and insisted on adding it to the trait, pretending like that will fix it.

Why have you refused to acknowledge any of the discussion about EM? I get that you can't respond to all discussions concerning balance, but EM was one of the most broken things ever introduced to the game. And you ignored the discussion on it.

Why do you refuse to fix the actual problem with EM by simply removing the stunbreak from it? Why are you so insistent on tacking on exhaustion instead of simply removing the mechanic that is overperforming?

Meanwhile, function gyro still doesn't work.

@Vagrant.7206 said:Meanwhile, function gyro still doesn't work.

*... still is not functional

Adding a 10 second Internal Cooldown was a much easier to implement - and better balance choice. But they insisted on Exhaustion. Oh well~

@OriOri.8724 said:

Why do you refuse to fix the actual problem with EM by simply removing the stunbreak from it? Why are you so insistent on tacking on exhaustion instead of simply removing the mechanic that is overperforming?

It got past testing so now they cannot functionally split it. Elusive mind is probably a life saver in CC-heavy PoF.Guess where the majority of the players are.

But hey, it's whatever. Games need to have one broken class to carry all the players with egos bigger than their skill capacity.

I think exhaustion is not a bad idea but they should also remove the ability to dodge while stunned or stomping / ressing without EM. This makes it beyond broken even without EM and would also make EM desireable after the nerf.

@Patrick.2987 said:I think exhaustion is not a bad idea but they should also remove the ability to dodge while stunned or stomping / ressing without EM. This makes it beyond broken even without EM and would also make EM desireable after the nerf.

Yo mad reaper, its feature of elite spec ;)

@Patrick.2987 said:I think exhaustion is not a bad idea but they should also remove the ability to dodge while stunned or stomping / ressing without EM. This makes it beyond broken even without EM and would also make EM desireable after the nerf.

Ok so let’s put exhaustion on necro too. we put exhaustion on scourges F abilities so that whenever you use one you get... 1 second of exhaustion.

Don’t like that idea do you? Principal is the same. Dodging while casting is a feature you recieve from picking mirage over Chrono. Exhaustion breaks EM just like it would break Scourge’s f abilities which are a feature you get for picking it. Neither class has endurance regen outside vigor, runes, or sigil. The is different than thief which has abilities to regen endurance even with exhaustion.The best options are an icd or remove stun break and compensate with something else. You’ll still have people run EM yes but IH will become a much better pick rather than a equal option.

Exhaustion is implemented to reduce dodgespam. Sure you can put it on any profession with more or less impact. And the dodge on stun and ress / stomp is not the only thing mirage offers. You have alot of vigor, a new weapon, casts while dodging, dodge without moving quite some access to stealth. On the other hand you could change evade in terms of not contesting while evading in general to reduce evadechains by certain builds since it offers the same advantage as for example elixier invuln on engi. This way maybe people would have to use their brain when and what to actually evade on node.

Why do you refuse to fix the actual problem with EM by simply removing the stunbreak from it? Why are you so insistent on tacking on exhaustion instead of simply removing the mechanic that is overperforming?

What about, not to take it if you wish for a no SB elusive mind?I mean, dodge = 1 condition less is good but maybe not necessarily a must.

Currently the trait gives you exhaust only if a CC is removed, isn't it?If so, wouldn't be a good trade?

Or else you would have planned to take the CC and the dps before being able to dodge?

@Patrick.2987 said:Exhaustion is implemented to reduce dodgespam. Sure you can put it on any profession with more or less impact. And the dodge on stun and ress / stomp is not the only thing mirage offers. You have alot of vigor, a new weapon, casts while dodging, dodge without moving quite some access to stealth. On the other hand you could change evade in terms of not contesting while evading in general to reduce evadechains by certain builds since it offers the same advantage as for example elixier invuln on engi. This way maybe people would have to use their brain when and what to actually evade on node.

But exhaustion completely ignores any kind of endurance regeneration (note that I said regen).Mirage has no flat endurance gain except Adventure Runes or Sigils of Energy. So vigor is useless, endurance food is useless.

The Mirage’s “dodgespam” actually comes from Mirrors, so the Desert Distortion trait. When you use Distortion, for each clone you shatter, spawns a Mirror at their place. So with False Oasis + 3 Clone Desert Distortion you have;4 Mirrors generated meaning 4 seconds of evade if you reach to them,3 Seconds of Distortion2 Seconds of Evades from your normal evades,25 Endurance from Energy Sigil,50 Endurance from Adventure Runes,So 1,5 seconds of evadeIt’s about 10,5 seconds of evades but, only 2 of them come from normal evades. So Exhaustion is not the fix.

The simpler and better solution was adding a 10 second ICD to Stunbreak or both the Stunbreak and Condi Cleanse.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Patrick.2987 said:Exhaustion is implemented to reduce dodgespam. Sure you can put it on any profession with more or less impact. And the dodge on stun and ress / stomp is not the only thing mirage offers. You have alot of vigor, a new weapon, casts while dodging, dodge without moving quite some access to stealth. On the other hand you could change evade in terms of not contesting while evading in general to reduce evadechains by certain builds since it offers the same advantage as for example elixier invuln on engi. This way maybe people would have to use their brain when and what to actually evade on node.

Sounds like exhaustion would be too weak on this to have a major impact, still 10s icd would fix nothing, since it does not punish you for failing an evade on stun. You would only get punished if you eat 2 stuns in 10 seconds and even then you were able to dodge while stunned. I think this offers kind of no counterplay at all. You forgot sword 2 aswell to list as an evade here which offers in total like 13-14 seconds of evadespam + vigor on top of it regaining some dodges meanwhile. Being able to dodge that long ignores damage for 14 seconds no matter how many people focus you while contesting and if you still get in trouble you can stealth up, blink or portal out. In my opinion this offers alot of sustain while still beeing able to dish out alot of damage.

@Patrick.2987 said:Exhaustion is implemented to reduce dodgespam. Sure you can put it on any profession with more or less impact. And the dodge on stun and ress / stomp is not the only thing mirage offers. You have alot of vigor, a new weapon, casts while dodging, dodge without moving quite some access to stealth. On the other hand you could change evade in terms of not contesting while evading in general to reduce evadechains by certain builds since it offers the same advantage as for example elixier invuln on engi. This way maybe people would have to use their brain when and what to actually evade on node.

Using your own logic all evades in game must give up a node contribution ,simple dodges,frenzy,pistol whip,weaver evades ... i have even better idea, blocks/barriers/shroud/transformations prevent point cap as well . Then game would be good for sure ;)

@Odik.4587 said:

@Patrick.2987 said:Exhaustion is implemented to reduce dodgespam. Sure you can put it on any profession with more or less impact. And the dodge on stun and ress / stomp is not the only thing mirage offers. You have alot of vigor, a new weapon, casts while dodging, dodge without moving quite some access to stealth. On the other hand you could change evade in terms of not contesting while evading in general to reduce evadechains by certain builds since it offers the same advantage as for example elixier invuln on engi. This way maybe people would have to use their brain when and what to actually evade on node.

Totally with u on this.

@Patrick.2987 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Patrick.2987 said:Exhaustion is implemented to reduce dodgespam. Sure you can put it on any profession with more or less impact. And the dodge on stun and ress / stomp is not the only thing mirage offers. You have alot of vigor, a new weapon, casts while dodging, dodge without moving quite some access to stealth. On the other hand you could change evade in terms of not contesting while evading in general to reduce evadechains by certain builds since it offers the same advantage as for example elixier invuln on engi. This way maybe people would have to use their brain when and what to actually evade on node.

You.... are you serious? You’d never capture a point unless everyone sat down. That’s.... please go home and not throw around ridiculous ideas like this. Nothing you’ve said is even logical when applied to the game. Maybe you would do better playing a like WoW or LoL?

I really dont like exhaustion as a concept. I cant think of any other traits than UI (from daredevil) and now EM that penalize the player for making use of them. Mirrors are really a bad tool for defense and - by design - seem like to be an offensive tool, giving easier access to ambush skills. Like sure, Desert Distortion can give a some breathing room if focused heavily, but any player with the least bit of awareness will not blow important CDs when he sees you running around collection your mirrors.

Although I would be fine with an ICD on EM, it still wouldn't be the best option imo. If you are in a hectic fight and lose track of the CD on EM, you could end up just wasting endurance without actually getting any value from the trait.Im not saying that EM is fine as it currently is....it definitely needs to be addressed in some form but its a real fickle to balance it properly imo.

You.... are you serious? You’d never capture a point unless everyone sat down. That’s.... please go home and not throw around ridiculous ideas like this. Nothing you’ve said is even logical when applied to the game. Maybe you would do better playing a like WoW or LoL?

So everyone is using evadeframes or invulns all the time to prevent capturing a point? Or am i missing something here?

@BikeIsGone.8675 said:I really dont like exhaustion as a concept. I cant think of any other traits than UI (from daredevil) and now EM that penalize the player for making use of them. Mirrors are really a bad tool for defense and - by design - seem like to be an offensive tool, giving easier access to ambush skills. Like sure, Desert Distortion can give a some breathing room if focused heavily, but any player with the least bit of awareness will not blow important CDs when he sees you running around collection your mirrors.

Although I would be fine with an ICD on EM, it still wouldn't be the best option imo. If you are in a hectic fight and lose track of the CD on EM, you could end up just wasting endurance without actually getting any value from the trait.Im not saying that EM is fine as it currently is....it definitely needs to be addressed in some form but its a real fickle to balance it properly imo.

Yep. If they put an ICD there would need to be a suitable indicator - eg white line around the endurance bar similar to how the ammunition mechanic works, to show when the stunbreak is on cooldown.

I think the proposed solution is not on the table because the “nerf” is still a 10 seconds evade + Condi clear + stunbreak. It would still be broken.

@"BikeIsGone.8675" said:I really dont like exhaustion as a concept. I cant think of any other traits than UI (from daredevil) and now EM that penalize the player for making use of them.

Oho, you haven't heard of overheating or PBM, have you?

Tell you what, let's make Elusive Mind's punishment be like PBM overheating. You take 3,000 damage over 3 seconds, and we'll call it even.

endurance is higher than 80 remove stun，it's the best.

@Patrick.2987 said:

You.... are you serious? You’d never capture a point unless everyone sat down. That’s.... please go home and not throw around ridiculous ideas like this. Nothing you’ve said is even logical when applied to the game. Maybe you would do better playing a like WoW or LoL?

Yeah you are. Because you agreed that shroud, barrier, transformations, etc should NOT contribute to point capture. Most classes couldn’t attack without trigger something like that. Heck with that thinking boons shouldn’t contribute to point capture either!

It’s obvious you have zero clue about what you’re even commenting on. Exhaustion isnt to reduce dodge spam. It’s to nerf the stun break on dodge. Mirage has no more dodges than anyone else. The only class with more than two dodges is daredevil. Daredevil has abilities to give them endurance. Not regen, give them. Mirage does not have such abilities. It only has vigor which is pointless with exhaustion.And guess what? Every class got a new weapon and abilities so that part of your argument is moot and idiotic. Mirage didn’t get barriers so should we have exhaustion whenever Barrier is granted? No that would be stupid. Exhaustion was introduced to reduce daredevil dodge spam when using unhindered combatant. Guess what? Daredevil has 3 dodges and the ability to regain(not regen) endurance. No other class has they.

Long story short? Actually do some research before you start saying posting on forums calling for nerfs.

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"BikeIsGone.8675" said:I really dont like exhaustion as a concept. I cant think of any other traits than UI (from daredevil) and now EM that penalize the player for making use of them.

Overheating by itself is a profession mechanic, not a trait. PBM actually mitigates some of the self inflicted dmg, so ye ....this is NOT a penalty for picking said trait.

Actually its better now than back in vanilla. In vanilla they didnt listen at all. Necro being the worst class for a very long time have had books written about the several issues, all of which ignored. Thieves were oppressive af for so long but they didnt do anything about it until much later when they killed the class and made people buy Daredevil to get back what they lost

Sometimes they will read the discussions then do the most baffling things. For example Revenant. Damage was a huge complaint so instead of nerfing one or two things with the damage, they took a massive sledgehammer to the class saying "To bring it more in line with other classes" This one cracks me up. I wonder if it is more inline yet.

Theyve also ignored problems with many traits and some skills and weapons that are either under performing or bugged just to keep the elite trait line "elite" maybe to justify charging for HoT who knows.

Power necro struggles has been ignored for a very long time. I really respect Crinn for sticking with it but like me he will convert soon.

The issue of Moa was ignored for so long that it wasnt until after Helseth dropped a video roasting them while sending them to respawn that they killed Moa the patch after.

Nowadays they actually will acknowledge in the patch notes of popular problems as opposed to saying something that is out of left field so i guess they are learning. In their defense GW2 is a very complicated game to balance.

They also didnt have the skill split technology until relatively recently. If they are serious about allowing more builds to be playable and reducing the damage. Things should get better in PvP the next couple years

@Patrick.2987 said:Exhaustion is implemented to reduce dodgespam. Sure you can put it on any profession with more or less impact. And the dodge on stun and ress / stomp is not the only thing mirage offers. You have alot of vigor, a new weapon, casts while dodging, dodge without moving quite some access to stealth. On the other hand you could change evade in terms of not contesting while evading in general to reduce evadechains by certain builds since it offers the same advantage as for example elixier invuln on engi. This way maybe people would have to use their brain when and what to actually evade on node.

Mirage doesn't have dodgespam. It brings very little vigor compared to what core mesmer can give out, no flat endurance regen (which chrono offers, but not mirage), and only has 2 dodges. Mirage has evadespam, by design. Mesmer's already had a ton of evades, and mirage gave them even more with mirrors. And exhaustion does not one thing to reduec evadespam, because it can only trigger off a dodge, and then only if you stunbreak. Exhaustion, does not fix the problem. That's why I and others are so against it. We aren't asking for EM to not be nerfed, we are asking for it to be fixed. Exhaustion does nothingto fix it.