Mirage Dodging — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Mirage Dodging

Been using the mirage for a while now, and I've come to one simple conclusion.
Not having any movement with the dodge mechanic is beyond garbage.
Want to escape an aoe that comes in waves? Don't dodge. Try to stun.
Want to get out of a large breadth aoe? Time your dodge well, and forget about using dodge to just get outside the area.
I mean removing the movement aspect of dodge to give us...ambushes? a crappier distortion that lasts 1 second? Worth it? I don't think so.

<1

Comments

  • I haven't had any trouble moving out of AoE with 1 second of Distortion and Superspeed (+ kitten ton of blinks) (yet).

  • Yeah, I think you're a bit off here. I haven't had any issues. Just move forward, or drop target and use the sword ambush, or blink out of it, etc, etc.

  • To be honest. If done well you even have more mobility with dodges than any other class. (other than Daredevil maybe.)
    You have 1 sec dodge now compared to the 0,75 sec it was before. You have 1 sec superspeed now compared to the 0,75 sec it was before.

    You lose the dodge distance other classes get from dodging but the superspeed is there to make up for the loss of that dodge mobility.
    Don't just backpedal while dodging. When you have to dodge something, dodge, turn around and run. Make use of that superspeed mobility you get.

  • @atlashugged.7642 said:
    Yeah, I think you're a bit off here. I haven't had any issues. Just move forward, or drop target and use the sword ambush, or blink out of it, etc, etc.

    Except then we're taking dodging away as an actual defense. If I have to use other skills to gain the movement, what I'm sacrificing should be worth it.

    1. Moving forward works to about the same amount of space as a normal dodge (with superspeed). Unfortunately the movement is restricted to just forward. Superspeed doesn't work when you want to go another direction, like backwards.
    2. Compared to the daredevil's dodge mechanics (DDs also get to choose the dodge they want based on last tier trait) of an extra dodge, superspeed+extra 1/4 second evasion is worse.
    3. Lastly, ambush skills while flashy, seem rather mediocre.
  • Unknown.3976Unknown.3976 Member ✭✭✭

    One of reasons why mirage is so clunky to play. For other classes, a simple dodge would suffice; for the mirage though, u have to dodge + run.

  • Esplen.3940Esplen.3940 Member ✭✭✭

    With the increase to Ambush window you can hold Superspeed for 0.8-1s and follow up with a Sword Ambush for ridiculous speds (1000 in 1.75s).

  • musu.9205musu.9205 Member ✭✭✭

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:
    Yeah, I think you're a bit off here. I haven't had any issues. Just move forward, or drop target and use the sword ambush, or blink out of it, etc, etc.

    Except then we're taking dodging away as an actual defense. If I have to use other skills to gain the movement, what I'm sacrificing should be worth it.

    1. Moving forward works to about the same amount of space as a normal dodge (with superspeed). Unfortunately the movement is restricted to just forward. Superspeed doesn't work when you want to go another direction, like backwards.
    2. Compared to the daredevil's dodge mechanics (DDs also get to choose the dodge they want based on last tier trait) of an extra dodge, superspeed+extra 1/4 second evasion is worse.
    3. Lastly, ambush skills while flashy, seem rather mediocre.

    1) i think anet could make dodge a short blink with one trait and some bonus with it to replace IH and make IH baseline
    2) mesmer is supposed to use mirror to be comparable with DD dodge but we all know mirror is still trash and likely will be trash forever. we should have more traits to spec mirror and a f5 to active all mirror for a short cd .
    3) ambush skills are mostly just trash . for some weapons id rather wait to use AA instead coz most ambush skills have long cast time which is stupid for a deceptive spec .the number can be buffed but the problem will remain until anet admit the whole mirage design is flawed .which we know wont happen just look at power reaper and scrapper drone.

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:
    Yeah, I think you're a bit off here. I haven't had any issues. Just move forward, or drop target and use the sword ambush, or blink out of it, etc, etc.

    Except then we're taking dodging away as an actual defense. If I have to use other skills to gain the movement, what I'm sacrificing should be worth it.

    1. Moving forward works to about the same amount of space as a normal dodge (with superspeed). Unfortunately the movement is restricted to just forward. Superspeed doesn't work when you want to go another direction, like backwards.

    Not true. I've gotten so used to right-click panning that I can get out of AoEs w/ Cloak really easily. It's a common misconception that you're restricted forwards (which, similarly, there is a misconception that you need stand in Mirage Oasis to get all the heals). Mirage is new, it'll take time to get used to it.

  • With superspeed you're just bound to run to the direction you're currently facing, just turn & face the direction you want to run/dodge towards and run.

  • @Undead Lives.7045 said:
    Except then we're taking dodging away as an actual defense. If I have to use other skills to gain the movement, what I'm sacrificing should be worth it.

    1. Moving forward works to about the same amount of space as a normal dodge (with superspeed). Unfortunately the movement is restricted to just forward. Superspeed doesn't work when you want to go another direction, like backwards.
    2. Compared to the daredevil's dodge mechanics (DDs also get to choose the dodge they want based on last tier trait) of an extra dodge, superspeed+extra 1/4 second evasion is worse.
    3. Lastly, ambush skills while flashy, seem rather mediocre.

    I don't get your argument. You were complaining about lack of mobility while dodging. Sword Ambush has 600 range (greater than a normal dodge), and can be used whenever you dodge. If you want mobility it's there. You're not taking away dodging for actual defense. If you mirage cloak for defense, you can use sword ambush to get a lot of movement out of it.

    The rest of your points.
    1. rotate your camera.
    2. Mirage also get to choose what dodge they want based on the last tier trait. Look at it. All of them are dodge traits. Now you should hopefully see the flaw in your argument here: You're comparing a traited daredevil dodge to an untraited mirage dodge. When you add the traits in, I think mirage dodge is actually better.
    2a. Infinite Horizon lets you use ambush skills in some nifty ways. In particular the sword ambush is hilarious with clones and infinite horizon.
    2b. Elusive Mind is amazing. Breaking stuns and removing a condition based on dodging is better than the daredevil counterpart (and anything else you can get at that level in daredevil).
    2c. Dune Cloak is comparable to Impaling lotus. It's a bit tougher to evaluate which is better, since they have different positives and negatives Impaling Lotus probably has the edge.
    3. Some are mediocre, and I hope that they get improved to the level of the good ones, like Mirage Thrust.

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    @Abelisk.4527 said:

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:
    Yeah, I think you're a bit off here. I haven't had any issues. Just move forward, or drop target and use the sword ambush, or blink out of it, etc, etc.

    Except then we're taking dodging away as an actual defense. If I have to use other skills to gain the movement, what I'm sacrificing should be worth it.

    1. Moving forward works to about the same amount of space as a normal dodge (with superspeed). Unfortunately the movement is restricted to just forward. Superspeed doesn't work when you want to go another direction, like backwards.

    Not true. I've gotten so used to right-click panning that I can get out of AoEs w/ Cloak really easily. It's a common misconception that you're restricted forwards (which, similarly, there is a misconception that you need stand in Mirage Oasis to get all the heals). Mirage is new, it'll take time to get used to it.

    You do realise you just wrote 'Its not true you can only move forwards, you can turn the camera around and move forwards' right.

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Levetty.1279 said:

    @Abelisk.4527 said:

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:
    Yeah, I think you're a bit off here. I haven't had any issues. Just move forward, or drop target and use the sword ambush, or blink out of it, etc, etc.

    Except then we're taking dodging away as an actual defense. If I have to use other skills to gain the movement, what I'm sacrificing should be worth it.

    1. Moving forward works to about the same amount of space as a normal dodge (with superspeed). Unfortunately the movement is restricted to just forward. Superspeed doesn't work when you want to go another direction, like backwards.

    Not true. I've gotten so used to right-click panning that I can get out of AoEs w/ Cloak really easily. It's a common misconception that you're restricted forwards (which, similarly, there is a misconception that you need stand in Mirage Oasis to get all the heals). Mirage is new, it'll take time to get used to it.

    You do realise you just wrote 'Its not true you can only move forwards, you can turn the camera around and move forwards' right.

    You can argue semantics all you want, what the person I quoted was referring to was being restricted to dodging in a forward-facing cone area. He didn't mention the camera in the first place. Also, if you run while panning your camera, you are not at all running forward--how else do you get out of an AoE?

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    @Abelisk.4527 said:

    @Levetty.1279 said:

    @Abelisk.4527 said:

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:
    Yeah, I think you're a bit off here. I haven't had any issues. Just move forward, or drop target and use the sword ambush, or blink out of it, etc, etc.

    Except then we're taking dodging away as an actual defense. If I have to use other skills to gain the movement, what I'm sacrificing should be worth it.

    1. Moving forward works to about the same amount of space as a normal dodge (with superspeed). Unfortunately the movement is restricted to just forward. Superspeed doesn't work when you want to go another direction, like backwards.

    Not true. I've gotten so used to right-click panning that I can get out of AoEs w/ Cloak really easily. It's a common misconception that you're restricted forwards (which, similarly, there is a misconception that you need stand in Mirage Oasis to get all the heals). Mirage is new, it'll take time to get used to it.

    You do realise you just wrote 'Its not true you can only move forwards, you can turn the camera around and move forwards' right.

    You can argue semantics all you want, what the person I quoted was referring to was being restricted to dodging in a forward-facing cone area. He didn't mention the camera in the first place. Also, if you run while panning your camera, you are not at all running forward--how else do you get out of an AoE?

    Playing a normal class with an actual elite spec.

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ehh. Mirage cloak is a lot more stable than "real" dodging. A lot more control on where you go.

    This is just one of those "getting used to" things.

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    @Abelisk.4527 said:
    Ehh. Mirage cloak is a lot more stable than "real" dodging. A lot more control on where you go.

    This is just one of those "getting used to" things.

    As long as where you want to go is in front of you, like you yourself have said.

  • musu.9205musu.9205 Member ✭✭✭

    @Abelisk.4527 said:
    Ehh. Mirage cloak is a lot more stable than "real" dodging. A lot more control on where you go.

    This is just one of those "getting used to" things.

    question : how you have more control when you want to move everywhere except forward ?
    tho things like dodge while stomp can be op for sure . but that's also unhealthy to game . i prefer any healthy design with actual useful function than a broken niche .

  • tnhalbertsma.7682tnhalbertsma.7682 Member ✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:
    Yeah, I think you're a bit off here. I haven't had any issues. Just move forward, or drop target and use the sword ambush, or blink out of it, etc, etc.

    Except then we're taking dodging away as an actual defense. If I have to use other skills to gain the movement, what I'm sacrificing should be worth it.

    1. Moving forward works to about the same amount of space as a normal dodge (with superspeed). Unfortunately the movement is restricted to just forward. Superspeed doesn't work when you want to go another direction, like backwards.
    2. Compared to the daredevil's dodge mechanics (DDs also get to choose the dodge they want based on last tier trait) of an extra dodge, superspeed+extra 1/4 second evasion is worse.
    3. Lastly, ambush skills while flashy, seem rather mediocre.

    Yeah, last point I can really get behind. Running a full Power build, I'm really only using the Sword Ambush skill for moving around the map and closing the gap to a target.

    Isn't moving forward with Superspeed a relative fair bit further than a dodge roll? I really felt like, today on HoT areas, those huge AoE's were all pretty easy to get out off, even though I don't even have Jaunt yet.

    One thing that might help here is that my only movement keys bound are QWE, so generally moving at 'top' speed

  • Undead Lives.7045Undead Lives.7045 Member ✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:
    Except then we're taking dodging away as an actual defense. If I have to use other skills to gain the movement, what I'm sacrificing should be worth it.

    1. Moving forward works to about the same amount of space as a normal dodge (with superspeed). Unfortunately the movement is restricted to just forward. Superspeed doesn't work when you want to go another direction, like backwards.
    2. Compared to the daredevil's dodge mechanics (DDs also get to choose the dodge they want based on last tier trait) of an extra dodge, superspeed+extra 1/4 second evasion is worse.
    3. Lastly, ambush skills while flashy, seem rather mediocre.

    I don't get your argument. You were complaining about lack of mobility while dodging. Sword Ambush has 600 range (greater than a normal dodge), and can be used whenever you dodge. If you want mobility it's there. You're not taking away dodging for actual defense. If you mirage cloak for defense, you can use sword ambush to get a lot of movement out of it.

    The rest of your points.
    1. rotate your camera.
    2. Mirage also get to choose what dodge they want based on the last tier trait. Look at it. All of them are dodge traits. Now you should hopefully see the flaw in your argument here: You're comparing a traited daredevil dodge to an untraited mirage dodge. When you add the traits in, I think mirage dodge is actually better.
    2a. Infinite Horizon lets you use ambush skills in some nifty ways. In particular the sword ambush is hilarious with clones and infinite horizon.
    2b. Elusive Mind is amazing. Breaking stuns and removing a condition based on dodging is better than the daredevil counterpart (and anything else you can get at that level in daredevil).
    2c. Dune Cloak is comparable to Impaling lotus. It's a bit tougher to evaluate which is better, since they have different positives and negatives Impaling Lotus probably has the edge.
    3. Some are mediocre, and I hope that they get improved to the level of the good ones, like Mirage Thrust.

    Sword Ambush is fine. But it requires you to run sword, which means you are limited in builds. I'm not gonna get into what weapons to run, my argument is purely that making the movement a two-skill function that only uses a specific weapon is limiting and not something that other classes experience.

    1. Rotating the camera takes time. With 1s of superspeed, any time lost is lost quickly.
    2. Technically you're correct since 2 out of three work with mirage cloak, and not just dodging.
      2a. It's fine.
      2b. I would argue that Unhindered Combat on DD is superior. Removes 3 (specific) conditions, goes farther, grants 10s of swiftness. I'm making this comparison because of the condi removal. Yes, it's 3 mobility conditions, and it doesn't have a stun break. But it's 3 instead of 1. And I'd rather dodge an incoming stun than get hit by it and then break it.
  • @Undead Lives.7045 said:
    1. Rotating the camera takes time. With 1s of superspeed, any time lost is lost quickly.
    2. Technically you're correct since 2 out of three work with mirage cloak, and not just dodging.
    2a. It's fine.
    2b. I would argue that Unhindered Combat on DD is superior. Removes 3 (specific) conditions, goes farther, grants 10s of swiftness. I'm making this comparison because of the condi removal. Yes, it's 3 mobility conditions, and it doesn't have a stun break. But it's 3 instead of 1. And I'd rather dodge an incoming stun than get hit by it and then break it.

    1. About Face is instant. Rotating is pretty fast. I don't know what to tell you other than be faster on your reaction.
    2. All three on mirage modify mirage cloak and how it behaves. All three on daredevil modify dodge and how it behaves. So I don't know what you mean by "technically you're correct." I am correct.
      2a. Yes.
      2b. You can dodge stuns even if you take elusive mind. In fact, you can probably dodge more of them than the thief while doing damage, since your dodge won't interrupt your other actions. But eventually someone is going to land one. And that is when Elusive Mind proves its worth over unhindered combat.
  • They already removed the thumbs down button from the forums? rip. If it was still here, you'd have one from me... It adds a new element of skill to mesmer. Mesmer have always been the class that have (imo) taken the most skill to play, and this adds a new element, 1 second of invulnerability while maintaining your attacks/etc.

  • musu.9205musu.9205 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:
    Yeah, I think you're a bit off here. I haven't had any issues. Just move forward, or drop target and use the sword ambush, or blink out of it, etc, etc.

    Except then we're taking dodging away as an actual defense. If I have to use other skills to gain the movement, what I'm sacrificing should be worth it.

    1. Moving forward works to about the same amount of space as a normal dodge (with superspeed). Unfortunately the movement is restricted to just forward. Superspeed doesn't work when you want to go another direction, like backwards.
    2. Compared to the daredevil's dodge mechanics (DDs also get to choose the dodge they want based on last tier trait) of an extra dodge, superspeed+extra 1/4 second evasion is worse.
    3. Lastly, ambush skills while flashy, seem rather mediocre.

    Yeah, last point I can really get behind. Running a full Power build, I'm really only using the Sword Ambush skill for moving around the map and closing the gap to a target.

    Isn't moving forward with Superspeed a relative fair bit further than a dodge roll? I really felt like, today on HoT areas, those huge AoE's were all pretty easy to get out off, even though I don't even have Jaunt yet.

    One thing that might help here is that my only movement keys bound are QWE, so generally moving at 'top' speed

    there are many aoe you do not want to move forward . especially some long lasting big aoe poison pool .or things like oil in demois .> @Xbon.9086 said:

    They already removed the thumbs down button from the forums? rip. If it was still here, you'd have one from me... It adds a new element of skill to mesmer. Mesmer have always been the class that have (imo) taken the most skill to play, and this adds a new element, 1 second of invulnerability while maintaining your attacks/etc.

    tedious way to play is not equal to more skill .
    but welp . and it's not invuln 5 years of gw2 , people don't know whats blur whats distortion and talk about skill . LMAO and you cant maintain your attack coz if you turn face most of your attack will stop . yeah it takes so much skill to know how a 5 years old game works ,coz someone just cant know for some reasons .

  • @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:
    1. Rotating the camera takes time. With 1s of superspeed, any time lost is lost quickly.
    2. Technically you're correct since 2 out of three work with mirage cloak, and not just dodging.
    2a. It's fine.
    2b. I would argue that Unhindered Combat on DD is superior. Removes 3 (specific) conditions, goes farther, grants 10s of swiftness. I'm making this comparison because of the condi removal. Yes, it's 3 mobility conditions, and it doesn't have a stun break. But it's 3 instead of 1. And I'd rather dodge an incoming stun than get hit by it and then break it.

    1. About Face is instant. Rotating is pretty fast. I don't know what to tell you other than be faster on your reaction.
    2. All three on mirage modify mirage cloak and how it behaves. All three on daredevil modify dodge and how it behaves. So I don't know what you mean by "technically you're correct." I am correct.
      2a. Yes.
      2b. You can dodge stuns even if you take elusive mind. In fact, you can probably dodge more of them than the thief while doing damage, since your dodge won't interrupt your other actions. But eventually someone is going to land one. And that is when Elusive Mind proves its worth over unhindered combat.

    About face isn't instant because it's an extra key to hit and no one's instant unless they're a bot. But maybe I want to move sideways? That's not instant. My point is dodging movement was wrapped in one key, one skill. Now it requires extra steps. Which on the one thing that all classes have as a general reaction, you don't want.

  • musu.9205musu.9205 Member ✭✭✭

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:
    1. Rotating the camera takes time. With 1s of superspeed, any time lost is lost quickly.
    2. Technically you're correct since 2 out of three work with mirage cloak, and not just dodging.
    2a. It's fine.
    2b. I would argue that Unhindered Combat on DD is superior. Removes 3 (specific) conditions, goes farther, grants 10s of swiftness. I'm making this comparison because of the condi removal. Yes, it's 3 mobility conditions, and it doesn't have a stun break. But it's 3 instead of 1. And I'd rather dodge an incoming stun than get hit by it and then break it.

    1. About Face is instant. Rotating is pretty fast. I don't know what to tell you other than be faster on your reaction.
    2. All three on mirage modify mirage cloak and how it behaves. All three on daredevil modify dodge and how it behaves. So I don't know what you mean by "technically you're correct." I am correct.
      2a. Yes.
      2b. You can dodge stuns even if you take elusive mind. In fact, you can probably dodge more of them than the thief while doing damage, since your dodge won't interrupt your other actions. But eventually someone is going to land one. And that is when Elusive Mind proves its worth over unhindered combat.

    you guys defending this dodge could just record a video showus how you make that dodge works to avoid aoe while doing dmg in raid , plain and simple .
    its not smooth gameplay no matter how you defend it , you just use more steps to force a simple function to work . that's design flaw . canceling AA chain was same for more dps . following your logic anet shouldn't have fixed that.
    also about face u will stop attacking therefore you lost advantage of mirage dodge . whats the point to make more effort but canceling each other ?
    btw for 2b i think he meant normal dodge roll has more room for mistake since it moves you away from cc , things like gravity well is easier to dodge without mirage .mirage dodge is especial weak against long last effect .in pvp if you turn around to move , it will lead to more problems .

  • @Undead Lives.7045 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:
    Except then we're taking dodging away as an actual defense. If I have to use other skills to gain the movement, what I'm sacrificing should be worth it.

    1. Moving forward works to about the same amount of space as a normal dodge (with superspeed). Unfortunately the movement is restricted to just forward. Superspeed doesn't work when you want to go another direction, like backwards.
    2. Compared to the daredevil's dodge mechanics (DDs also get to choose the dodge they want based on last tier trait) of an extra dodge, superspeed+extra 1/4 second evasion is worse.
    3. Lastly, ambush skills while flashy, seem rather mediocre.

    I don't get your argument. You were complaining about lack of mobility while dodging. Sword Ambush has 600 range (greater than a normal dodge), and can be used whenever you dodge. If you want mobility it's there. You're not taking away dodging for actual defense. If you mirage cloak for defense, you can use sword ambush to get a lot of movement out of it.

    The rest of your points.
    1. rotate your camera.
    2. Mirage also get to choose what dodge they want based on the last tier trait. Look at it. All of them are dodge traits. Now you should hopefully see the flaw in your argument here: You're comparing a traited daredevil dodge to an untraited mirage dodge. When you add the traits in, I think mirage dodge is actually better.
    2a. Infinite Horizon lets you use ambush skills in some nifty ways. In particular the sword ambush is hilarious with clones and infinite horizon.
    2b. Elusive Mind is amazing. Breaking stuns and removing a condition based on dodging is better than the daredevil counterpart (and anything else you can get at that level in daredevil).
    2c. Dune Cloak is comparable to Impaling lotus. It's a bit tougher to evaluate which is better, since they have different positives and negatives Impaling Lotus probably has the edge.
    3. Some are mediocre, and I hope that they get improved to the level of the good ones, like Mirage Thrust.

    Sword Ambush is fine. But it requires you to run sword, which means you are limited in builds. I'm not gonna get into what weapons to run, my argument is purely that making the movement a two-skill function that only uses a specific weapon is limiting and not something that other classes experience.

    1. Rotating the camera takes time. With 1s of superspeed, any time lost is lost quickly.
    2. Technically you're correct since 2 out of three work with mirage cloak, and not just dodging.
      2a. It's fine.
      2b. I would argue that Unhindered Combat on DD is superior. Removes 3 (specific) conditions, goes farther, grants 10s of swiftness. I'm making this comparison because of the condi removal. Yes, it's 3 mobility conditions, and it doesn't have a stun break. But it's 3 instead of 1. And I'd rather dodge an incoming stun than get hit by it and then break it.

    But you can just use the left and right mouse buttons to quickly move the camera WHILE moving out of the way? Like you can hold the strafe keys as long as you're holding left + right mouse button. Should easily get you out.

  • musu.9205musu.9205 Member ✭✭✭

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:
    Except then we're taking dodging away as an actual defense. If I have to use other skills to gain the movement, what I'm sacrificing should be worth it.

    1. Moving forward works to about the same amount of space as a normal dodge (with superspeed). Unfortunately the movement is restricted to just forward. Superspeed doesn't work when you want to go another direction, like backwards.
    2. Compared to the daredevil's dodge mechanics (DDs also get to choose the dodge they want based on last tier trait) of an extra dodge, superspeed+extra 1/4 second evasion is worse.
    3. Lastly, ambush skills while flashy, seem rather mediocre.

    I don't get your argument. You were complaining about lack of mobility while dodging. Sword Ambush has 600 range (greater than a normal dodge), and can be used whenever you dodge. If you want mobility it's there. You're not taking away dodging for actual defense. If you mirage cloak for defense, you can use sword ambush to get a lot of movement out of it.

    The rest of your points.
    1. rotate your camera.
    2. Mirage also get to choose what dodge they want based on the last tier trait. Look at it. All of them are dodge traits. Now you should hopefully see the flaw in your argument here: You're comparing a traited daredevil dodge to an untraited mirage dodge. When you add the traits in, I think mirage dodge is actually better.
    2a. Infinite Horizon lets you use ambush skills in some nifty ways. In particular the sword ambush is hilarious with clones and infinite horizon.
    2b. Elusive Mind is amazing. Breaking stuns and removing a condition based on dodging is better than the daredevil counterpart (and anything else you can get at that level in daredevil).
    2c. Dune Cloak is comparable to Impaling lotus. It's a bit tougher to evaluate which is better, since they have different positives and negatives Impaling Lotus probably has the edge.
    3. Some are mediocre, and I hope that they get improved to the level of the good ones, like Mirage Thrust.

    Sword Ambush is fine. But it requires you to run sword, which means you are limited in builds. I'm not gonna get into what weapons to run, my argument is purely that making the movement a two-skill function that only uses a specific weapon is limiting and not something that other classes experience.

    1. Rotating the camera takes time. With 1s of superspeed, any time lost is lost quickly.
    2. Technically you're correct since 2 out of three work with mirage cloak, and not just dodging.
      2a. It's fine.
      2b. I would argue that Unhindered Combat on DD is superior. Removes 3 (specific) conditions, goes farther, grants 10s of swiftness. I'm making this comparison because of the condi removal. Yes, it's 3 mobility conditions, and it doesn't have a stun break. But it's 3 instead of 1. And I'd rather dodge an incoming stun than get hit by it and then break it.

    But you can just use the left and right mouse buttons to quickly move the camera WHILE moving out of the way? Like you can hold the strafe keys as long as you're holding left + right mouse button. Should easily get you out.

    that way you lose mouse to click and target , surely it wont be a problem for pvp /s
    it still takes time to rotating camera for a simple movement function from dodge ,and remember superspeed is only 1s , mcuh effort for less gain. also key word:clumsy . there is no single good game where you have to turn your face around to dodge . no designer will think this is a good idea : how about forcing player use more keys and mouse for simple movement , this is not puzzle game .
    and why you feel you need to defend this design flaw , i think if ambush is strong enough it will be justified right now , its a nope thats why everyone feel new dodge is weak while ambush doesnt have much impact

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @musu.9205 said:

    @Abelisk.4527 said:
    Ehh. Mirage cloak is a lot more stable than "real" dodging. A lot more control on where you go.

    This is just one of those "getting used to" things.

    question : how you have more control when you want to move everywhere except forward ?
    tho things like dodge while stomp can be op for sure . but that's also unhealthy to game . i prefer any healthy design with actual useful function than a broken niche .

    Game was already unhealthy since hot.

  • Panda.1967Panda.1967 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm honestly astonished that people are actually trying to defend this clunky mechanic... Literally everyone who gave feedback from the preview events flat out told ArenaNet that the lack of innate movement on Mirage Dodge is terrible. It's a straight up nerf to dodging for a small damage bonus, that you might not even get to benefit from at all due to how short duration Mirage Cloak is. At least they buffed the duration of Mirage Cloak up from 0.5s to 1s so that it lasts longer than the normal dodge effect instead of being shorter for whatever stupid reason... Still changes nothing. Our dodge still leaves us in the exact same spot we were in at the start of it, we have to manually move out of AoEs, and our ambush skills are STILL weak. Not to mention, if you're busy moving out of an AoE, you're certainly not going to be utilizing that Ambush skill unless you happen to be using Sword.

    Please stop assuming I'm a male, I am female.

  • Carighan.6758Carighan.6758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Panda.1967 said:
    I'm honestly astonished that people are actually trying to defend this clunky mechanic...

    Yep, pretty much this. Although, as I said above, I could understand this inherent downsides as a way to balance our ambushes.

    However, that would assume our ambushes are strong. They're not. I don't even notice them, other than Sword, between my autoattacks. And Sword I mostly notice because of the movement not because it's strong.

    So yeah, buff all ambushes by 200%-700%, remove Infinite Horizon, we might be getting into "could understand the mirage cloak dodge"-territory.

  • tnhalbertsma.7682tnhalbertsma.7682 Member ✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    @musu.9205 said:

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Undead Lives.7045 said:
    Except then we're taking dodging away as an actual defense. If I have to use other skills to gain the movement, what I'm sacrificing should be worth it.

    1. Moving forward works to about the same amount of space as a normal dodge (with superspeed). Unfortunately the movement is restricted to just forward. Superspeed doesn't work when you want to go another direction, like backwards.
    2. Compared to the daredevil's dodge mechanics (DDs also get to choose the dodge they want based on last tier trait) of an extra dodge, superspeed+extra 1/4 second evasion is worse.
    3. Lastly, ambush skills while flashy, seem rather mediocre.

    I don't get your argument. You were complaining about lack of mobility while dodging. Sword Ambush has 600 range (greater than a normal dodge), and can be used whenever you dodge. If you want mobility it's there. You're not taking away dodging for actual defense. If you mirage cloak for defense, you can use sword ambush to get a lot of movement out of it.

    The rest of your points.
    1. rotate your camera.
    2. Mirage also get to choose what dodge they want based on the last tier trait. Look at it. All of them are dodge traits. Now you should hopefully see the flaw in your argument here: You're comparing a traited daredevil dodge to an untraited mirage dodge. When you add the traits in, I think mirage dodge is actually better.
    2a. Infinite Horizon lets you use ambush skills in some nifty ways. In particular the sword ambush is hilarious with clones and infinite horizon.
    2b. Elusive Mind is amazing. Breaking stuns and removing a condition based on dodging is better than the daredevil counterpart (and anything else you can get at that level in daredevil).
    2c. Dune Cloak is comparable to Impaling lotus. It's a bit tougher to evaluate which is better, since they have different positives and negatives Impaling Lotus probably has the edge.
    3. Some are mediocre, and I hope that they get improved to the level of the good ones, like Mirage Thrust.

    Sword Ambush is fine. But it requires you to run sword, which means you are limited in builds. I'm not gonna get into what weapons to run, my argument is purely that making the movement a two-skill function that only uses a specific weapon is limiting and not something that other classes experience.

    1. Rotating the camera takes time. With 1s of superspeed, any time lost is lost quickly.
    2. Technically you're correct since 2 out of three work with mirage cloak, and not just dodging.
      2a. It's fine.
      2b. I would argue that Unhindered Combat on DD is superior. Removes 3 (specific) conditions, goes farther, grants 10s of swiftness. I'm making this comparison because of the condi removal. Yes, it's 3 mobility conditions, and it doesn't have a stun break. But it's 3 instead of 1. And I'd rather dodge an incoming stun than get hit by it and then break it.

    But you can just use the left and right mouse buttons to quickly move the camera WHILE moving out of the way? Like you can hold the strafe keys as long as you're holding left + right mouse button. Should easily get you out.

    that way you lose mouse to click and target , surely it wont be a problem for pvp /s
    it still takes time to rotating camera for a simple movement function from dodge ,and remember superspeed is only 1s , mcuh effort for less gain. also key word:clumsy . there is no single good game where you have to turn your face around to dodge . no designer will think this is a good idea : how about forcing player use more keys and mouse for simple movement , this is not puzzle game .
    and why you feel you need to defend this design flaw , i think if ambush is strong enough it will be justified right now , its a nope thats why everyone feel new dodge is weak while ambush doesnt have much impact

    L2P issue. It's perfectly smooth and better than the regular dodge roll. I love how your reasoning keeps leaning on 'everyone'. Stop deciding for other people, and choose and handle for yourself.

    If, to me, it works PERFECT, and FLAWLESS, the way I'm using the mouse buttons and keyboard keys, then maybe you should give it a shot instead of the continued whining in 'why you need to defend this design flaw'. Maybe the flaw is you?

    This action doesn't even require clicking a different target or whatever you're saying. If you need strafe to get out, just hold that left/right strafe button, THEN both mouse buttons, you can run any direction by simply moving the camera and pressing the right direction keys, WITHOUT losing ANY movement speed or your target.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Op mirage makes up the lack of mobility through jaunt, and its utilities etc u also have mobility on axe sword ambush and also base mes goodness such as blink.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If super speed kept a constant for all 8 directions it would feel much better.

  • @Daishi.6027 said:
    If super speed kept a constant for all 8 directions it would feel much better.

    (Use the mouse/camera and mouse buttons)

    Backpeddling should never be the same movement speed as running forward. That'd actually make for some really dumb gameplay.

  • 1 action has been made into two actions and dodges can be burned through for ambushes as a resource

    My biggest problem is trying to dodge backwards because we used to roll backwards but with mirage you just get a speed boost. However there is no backwards running in this game so you end up doing that slow step scuffle.

  • You shouldn't have the backwards button bound to be honest. An easy trick is to unbind s for move backwards, and rebind it to about face.

  • @atlashugged.7642 said:
    You shouldn't have the backwards button bound to be honest. An easy trick is to unbind s for move backwards, and rebind it to about face.

    This. I've done this since WoW, and started doing it in GW2. Helps immensely with strafing and kiting.

    Basically unbind ASD, bind Q to strafe left and E to strafe right, W move forward.

    This allows you to put the ASD skills on Utility spells, which is a thousand times easier to access than numbers 6+.

  • Esplen.3940Esplen.3940 Member ✭✭✭

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:
    This action doesn't even require clicking a different target or whatever you're saying. If you need strafe to get out, just hold that left/right strafe button, THEN both mouse buttons, you can run any direction by simply moving the camera and pressing the right direction keys, WITHOUT losing ANY movement speed or your target.

    False. If you have attacked within 1s (give or take), you will backpedal/sidestep.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:
    You shouldn't have the backwards button bound to be honest. An easy trick is to unbind s for move backwards, and rebind it to about face.

    This. I've done this since WoW, and started doing it in GW2. Helps immensely with strafing and kiting.

    Basically unbind ASD, bind Q to strafe left and E to strafe right, W move forward.

    This allows you to put the ASD skills on Utility spells, which is a thousand times easier to access than numbers 6+.

    Or, you could keep W as move forward, rebind A and D for strafe left/right, rebind S if need be and have access to 1-4, QERT, FG and ZXC for keybinds. That way you'll have the usual normal strafe setup of most games that don't put turn on keys in the basic keybinds while retaining a centered position on your keyboard for a more comfortable handposition.

    Better yet, shift the entire setup one to the right as to have E as move forward and have an entire row of extra keybinds.

    Yet I wonder, how does this have to do anything with the lacking movement? It's basically the player having to play against his class and compensate for design flaws for something as basic as dodge.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:
    You shouldn't have the backwards button bound to be honest. An easy trick is to unbind s for move backwards, and rebind it to about face.

    This. I've done this since WoW, and started doing it in GW2. Helps immensely with strafing and kiting.

    Basically unbind ASD, bind Q to strafe left and E to strafe right, W move forward.

    This allows you to put the ASD skills on Utility spells, which is a thousand times easier to access than numbers 6+.

    Or, you could keep W as move forward, rebind A and D for strafe left/right, rebind S if need be and have access to 1-4, QERT, FG and ZXC for keybinds. That way you'll have the usual normal strafe setup of most games that don't put turn on keys in the basic keybinds while retaining a centered position on your keyboard for a more comfortable handposition.

    Better yet, shift the entire setup one to the right as to have E as move forward and have an entire row of extra keybinds.

    Yet I wonder, how does this have to do anything with the lacking movement? It's basically the player having to play against his class and compensate for design flaws for something as basic as dodge.

    Or you can get Razer Nostromo which has a thumb joystick

    https://www.amazon.com/Razer-Nostromo-PC-Gaming-Keypad/dp/B004AM5RB6

    And a gaming mice, and you don't need to use a keyboard ever again. Some people have small hands which don't suit keyboard gameplay.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:
    You shouldn't have the backwards button bound to be honest. An easy trick is to unbind s for move backwards, and rebind it to about face.

    This. I've done this since WoW, and started doing it in GW2. Helps immensely with strafing and kiting.

    Basically unbind ASD, bind Q to strafe left and E to strafe right, W move forward.

    This allows you to put the ASD skills on Utility spells, which is a thousand times easier to access than numbers 6+.

    Or, you could keep W as move forward, rebind A and D for strafe left/right, rebind S if need be and have access to 1-4, QERT, FG and ZXC for keybinds. That way you'll have the usual normal strafe setup of most games that don't put turn on keys in the basic keybinds while retaining a centered position on your keyboard for a more comfortable handposition.

    Better yet, shift the entire setup one to the right as to have E as move forward and have an entire row of extra keybinds.

    Yet I wonder, how does this have to do anything with the lacking movement? It's basically the player having to play against his class and compensate for design flaws for something as basic as dodge.

    Or you can get Razer Nostromo which has a thumb joystick

    https://www.amazon.com/Razer-Nostromo-PC-Gaming-Keypad/dp/B004AM5RB6

    And a gaming mice, and you don't need to use a keyboard ever again. Some people have small hands which don't suit keyboard gameplay.

    I own a https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-n52te-Tournament-Edition-SpeedPad/dp/B000WMEHYG which I haven't used for years because nothing screems more "get out" to female visitors than having that and a headset at your pc. It was quite comfy though after an aproximately 1 week adjustment period.

    That aside, doesn't change the fact that the player should not have to fight against his class mechanic on a basic level. The 1 second duration increase was a bandaid fix, better would have been 360 degrees solution.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    That aside, doesn't change the fact that the player should not have to fight against his class mechanic on a basic level. The 1 second duration increase was a bandaid fix, better would have been 360 degrees solution.

    Calling it a fight doesn't make it so. Dodging having no effect on your movement unless you want it to is a feature. It actually allows you more precise control over your positioning, and all it takes is a basic grasp of camera and movement controls.

    Which I'm guessing most people posting in this thread lack.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    That aside, doesn't change the fact that the player should not have to fight against his class mechanic on a basic level. The 1 second duration increase was a bandaid fix, better would have been 360 degrees solution.

    Calling it a fight doesn't make it so. Dodging having no effect on your movement unless you want it to is a feature. It actually allows you more precise control over your positioning, and all it takes is a basic grasp of camera and movement controls.

    Which I'm guessing most people posting in this thread lack.

    You dodge 300 units over 0.75 seconds and can dodge in any direction.

    Try again.

    I'm not going to go through all the arguments which have been brought up numerous times why movement while dodging is a good thing and how the game is balanced and designed around how basic dodge works. I'd have no problem if the game weren't designed around basic dodge, but unfortunetaly it is thus not moving while dodging is a mechanic which makes the player have to compensate.

  • You can't remain stationary while dodging, unless you're a mirage. You will always dodge the same amount of distance, unless you are a mirage. Meanwhile a mirage can dodge, and during that dodge, move further than normal with skills or about the same with super speed.

    That is the greater control. Before going over old arguments, you should try understanding mine.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    @atlashugged.7642 said:
    You can't remain stationary while dodging, unless you're a mirage. You will always dodge the same amount of distance, unless you are a mirage. Meanwhile a mirage can dodge, and during that dodge, move further than normal with skills or about the same with super speed.

    That is the greater control. Before going over old arguments, you should try understanding mine.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_Speed

    Frontal movement in combat:
    Mirage moves at 400 u/s in combat to the front which is an increase of 120 over someone with swiftness and 190 over someone without swiftness. It's a straight up 100 units increase over someone who dodges. This ofcorse means the person who dodges HAS to run forward 100% of that time and not pass their target.

    Strafe movement in combat:
    Mirage moves at 180 u/s in combat while strafing which is a direct decrease comapared to a sideways dodge by 120 units while retaining the ability to cast skills. This will NOT get you out of aoes in time for most classes or in pve.

    Backpedaling movement in combat:
    Mirage moves at 105 u/s in combat while strafing which is a direct decrease comapared to a back dodge by 195 units while retaining the ability to cast skills. This means you have no fast backward movement whatsoever in any game mode. Even instant turning around and running backwards will barely reach the dodge distance while at the same time depriving you of you arbility to cast.

    Mirage has no superior movement except to the front.

    Staying stationary while dodging is no benefit. Most effects which need to be dodged also require repositioning. It's how the game is designed and skills and skill sizes are balanced. How hard is this to understand?

    Greater control is worth nothing when it comes with a sizable detriment which negates the greater control you have in an enviroment which is designed for something working according to A, while you are working with a mechanic designed to work according to B.

  • Esplen.3940Esplen.3940 Member ✭✭✭

    @atlashugged.7642 said:
    You can't remain stationary while dodging, unless you're a mirage. You will always dodge the same amount of distance, unless you are a mirage. Meanwhile a mirage can dodge, and during that dodge, move further than normal with skills or about the same with super speed.

    That is the greater control. Before going over old arguments, you should try understanding mine.

    Sorry but, I'm a bit lost on a few parts:

    You will always dodge the same amount of distance

    Is technically incorrect as you can dodge against walls to prevent movement. This is part of the reason why wall-stacking was such a huge part of the dungeon meta (it not only clumped the enemies but it made sure dodges wouldn't make everyone run everywhere).

    Additionally:

    a mirage can dodge, and during that dodge, move further than normal with skills

    Are you saying that a Mesmer (or any other class) can't normally move with skills? Sure, Mesmer has never had an actual leap (Sword3 is a blink not a leap), but Mesmer and other Professions have been able to move plenty without the requirement of dodging to do so (although dodging as a panic movement most definitely exists).

    Just within Mesmer alone (not counting Mirage), we have:
    Illusionary Leap -> Swap: 0.5s cast time, 600 range
    Phase Retreat: Instant, 1,200 range
    Blink: Instant, 1,200 range
    Feigned Surge: 1.75s cast time, 900 range (underwater)
    Feign: Instant, 1,200 range

    If we add Mirage (not counting Ambushes), we have:
    Lingering Thoughts: 0.5s cast time, 130-400(?) range
    Mirage Advance: 0.75s cast time, 900 range
    Mirage Return: 0.75s cast time, 900 (?maybe 1,200) range
    Sand Through Glass: 0.5s "cast time", 300 range
    Jaunt: Instant, 450 range

    Note: Not counting Axes of Symmetry or Illusionary Ambush due to blink distance being extremely RNG reliant.

    Using Sword Ambush as a reason why Mirage Dodge is good is like saying Daredevil has good mobility because you can use Weakening Charge for movement.

    As for the last point:

    about the same [distance moved] with super speed.

    This is true if you are only walking in a forward direction. You cannot sidestep (that means no strafing). You cannot backpedal (that means no backwards dodges). You can move forward. Yes, you can attack during this time, but that really boils down your options to:
    1. Walk forward to avoid damage.
    2. Continue attacking.
    3. Walk forward and continue attacking.

    Each of these has it's own problems.
    1. To fine-tune your directions, this requires extreme hand-camera coordination to get the mouse swivels correct.
    2. There are many lingerings effects, both in PvE and PvP, and they usually last longer than one second.
    3. Unless you're casting an ability that doesn't require face-targeting (Phantasms, Heal, Mantras, non-target Utilities), you're sidestepping or backpedaling and therefore not actually using Superspeed. If you aren't facing your target, then the dodge is being used to it's full extent, the way it was intended. This execution requires a lot of planning ahead and doesn't usually happen, even in PvE.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think the mirage dodge is the best working feature of the elite spec. I've had no difficulty in raids or fractals, and the mirage dodge helps in particular in harpy fractals, nightmare fractal bullet hell, and has its niche uses such as being able to dodge while rezzing or if you get knocked down.

    It's the one good thing about this spec. The spec is downright terrible in damage output, has the same ramp up that cripples all mesmer builds, and has worthless traits and utilities that don't increase PvE damage throughput or provide group utility.

    The spec is pretty in animations and has an interesting, useful dodge feature. That's about the only good thing you can say of the spec.

    The ambushes are horrendously weak, the traits outside mirrored axes and dune cloak are all pvp trash that is irrelevant in PvE. Nomad's Endurance is useless in PvE since we don't shatter, as is riddle of sand. We have no real condition damage % increase traits outside Illusions's compounding power, and we only take dueling because of bleed application on crits and duelist's discipline; we have no good condition damage increasing traitlines.

    Core mesmer utilities are all highly situational and weak since we don't have access to chronomancer wells, the only good utilities we had. Jaunt is just a garbage version of Thief's Vault taking up our elite slot.

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    After playing around with Mirage in PvP, I definitely feel how weak Ambushes are.

    I think the playstyle of Mirage in duels is to counterattack. When your opponent strikes, use Mirage Cloak then use the ambush. Illusionary Ambush is basically the same thing as dodging but has a more sophisticated mechanic to it.

    I feel that ambushes don't do enough to justify the 50% endurance loss. Although I love the playstyle I can't help but feel that if Mirage wants to be a dueling spec, it would need to step up its game.

    This would not only help its place in PvP/WvW as being a powerful duelist, but it would also greatly aid in PvE dps.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:

    @atlashugged.7642 said:
    You shouldn't have the backwards button bound to be honest. An easy trick is to unbind s for move backwards, and rebind it to about face.

    This. I've done this since WoW, and started doing it in GW2. Helps immensely with strafing and kiting.

    Basically unbind ASD, bind Q to strafe left and E to strafe right, W move forward.

    This allows you to put the ASD skills on Utility spells, which is a thousand times easier to access than numbers 6+.

    Or, you could keep W as move forward, rebind A and D for strafe left/right, rebind S if need be and have access to 1-4, QERT, FG and ZXC for keybinds. That way you'll have the usual normal strafe setup of most games that don't put turn on keys in the basic keybinds while retaining a centered position on your keyboard for a more comfortable handposition.

    Better yet, shift the entire setup one to the right as to have E as move forward and have an entire row of extra keybinds.

    Yet I wonder, how does this have to do anything with the lacking movement? It's basically the player having to play against his class and compensate for design flaws for something as basic as dodge.

    'Turning keys' are a flat out waste in comparison to strafing keys. Honestly your method seems WAY more impractical. Accessing both F-keys and ZXC/spacebar with a single hand WHILE moving around is impossible.

    And regarding the comfortable hand position, it couldn't be more comfortable than your hand being in THE most natural position. Namely, pinky finger all the way to index finger in a straight line from TAB > Q > W > E, with the thumb on Spacebar and for V usage.

    And what? You're saying because people can't dodge out of stuff because they don't correctly use their most core and basic mobility keys (WASD/mouse), the mechanic should be buffed (or shouldn't have existed in the first place)? The expac has been out for a day, some people are complaining about it being subpar to regular dodges. Then there's people saying they DON'T have ANY trouble whatsoever to move out of AoE's with the given kit. Just run with Distortion if possible, if you don't feel like it'll be enough, use a charge of Jaunt. Simple as that. 9/10 are easily dodgeable with just V though.

    1 + 1 = L2P issue.

  • Esplen.3940Esplen.3940 Member ✭✭✭

    Um what, he said to have WAD as Forward + Strafes.
    You said QWE as Forward + Strafes.

    But somehow his method is way more impractical because of issues that are present in your system as well.

  • tnhalbertsma.7682tnhalbertsma.7682 Member ✭✭
    edited September 23, 2017

    @Esplen.3940 said:
    Um what, he said to have WAD as Forward + Strafes.
    You said QWE as Forward + Strafes.

    But somehow his method is way more impractical because of issues that are present in your system as well.

    Fair enough, misread that part. Doesn't take away from the point I was making though. Namely: If YOU can't dodge out of kitten with the Distortion/Dodge/Superspeed mechanic that you used to be able to dodge out of with a regular roll on any of the other professions, it's a YOU problem.

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