Survival skills — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Survival skills

Please add the remove 2 condi to the skills without the trait, this will open up build diversity. And chance the trait wilderness knowledge or let it be like it is but, give the survival the normal skill 2 condi removal. Core rane only get condi removal from the trait wilderness knowledge and this limits the build diversity.

Comments

  • Diak Atoli.2085Diak Atoli.2085 Member ✭✭✭

    While I won't say no to making Survival skills remove conditions inherently, I would point out that core Ranger has access to condition removal without Wilderness Knowledge.

    Healing Spring (Heal Skill) removes up to five conditions on the ranger and allies while standing in it.

    Evasive Purity (Nature Magic Master trait) removes a damaging and non-damaging condition when the ranger dodges, with an ICD on ten seconds.

  • Dragonzhunter.8506Dragonzhunter.8506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2018

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:
    While I won't say no to making Survival skills remove conditions inherently, I would point out that core Ranger has access to condition removal without Wilderness Knowledge.

    Healing Spring (Heal Skill) removes up to five conditions on the ranger and allies while standing in it.

    Evasive Purity (Nature Magic Master trait) removes a damaging and non-damaging condition when the ranger dodges, with an ICD on ten seconds.

    Also Signet of Renewal +Brutish Seal remove 13 conditions every 40 sec. Brown Bear remove 2 condi every 25 sec.
    @will de grijze jager.6594 , I understand that you want to have Marks/Skirmish/Beastmastery traits lines and the possibility to remove the same amount of condition like you do now with Survival, but do you thought that will make core ranger (vanila ranger) too OP?

  • will de grijze jager.6594will de grijze jager.6594 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2018

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:
    While I won't say no to making Survival skills remove conditions inherently, I would point out that core Ranger has access to condition removal without Wilderness Knowledge.

    Healing Spring (Heal Skill) removes up to five conditions on the ranger and allies while standing in it.

    Evasive Purity (Nature Magic Master trait) removes a damaging and non-damaging condition when the ranger dodges, with an ICD on ten seconds.

    Also Signet of Renewal +Brutish Seal remove 13 conditions every 40 sec. Brown Bear remove 2 condi every 25 sec.
    @will de grijze jager.6594 , I understand that you want to have Marks/Skirmish/Beastmastery traits lines and the possibility to remove the same amount of condition like you do now with Survival, but do you thought that will make core ranger (vanila ranger) too OP?

    Not really it will give it a chance agianst the op builds and open more kind of build for ranger they you would have like, druid, soulbeast and Core ranger and all of them you can take then wildernees or skimish nature mag or marks. For core ranger you can now really chose for 3 lines and not be stuk with 1 line always. For Druid you have the chose for 2 trait line and not always take wilderness and only have 1 other trait and the same for soulbeast.

  • @will de grijze jager.6594 said:

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:
    While I won't say no to making Survival skills remove conditions inherently, I would point out that core Ranger has access to condition removal without Wilderness Knowledge.

    Healing Spring (Heal Skill) removes up to five conditions on the ranger and allies while standing in it.

    Evasive Purity (Nature Magic Master trait) removes a damaging and non-damaging condition when the ranger dodges, with an ICD on ten seconds.

    Also Signet of Renewal +Brutish Seal remove 13 conditions every 40 sec. Brown Bear remove 2 condi every 25 sec.
    @will de grijze jager.6594 , I understand that you want to have Marks/Skirmish/Beastmastery traits lines and the possibility to remove the same amount of condition like you do now with Survival, but do you thought that will make core ranger (vanila ranger) too OP?

    Not really it will give it a chance agianst the op builds and open more kind of build for ranger they you would have like, druid, soulbeast and Core ranger and all of them you can take then wildernees or skimish nature mag or marks. For core ranger you can now really chose for 3 lines and not be stuk with 1 line always. For Druid you have the chose for 2 trait line and not always take wilderness and only have 1 other trait and the same for soulbeast.

    Think of this ... atm druid is very strong (he use survival for condi) , soulbeast is strong too but he use survival for condi too, because Bear Stance is not enough and vs power build is very weak. Well, if these to specialization Druid and Soulbeast, are pretty strong using survival skills, do you realize how they will be when they will take another traits line instead?
    For example, Soulbeast with Marksmanship (Stoneform+Brutish Seal) has 5 sec of invulnerability vs power damage every 56 sec! If he use Signet of Stone, he will have another 6 sec of invulnerability every 64 sec. So vs power build he is pretty strong in defense , in the mean time his Attack Power and Damage is high, but ... he lacks in condi remove, and he die very quick vs condi build, that's why ppl trade Marksmanship with Survival. Because Soulbeast has many posibility to evade/dodge/leap vs direct damage, but vs condi damage you need condi cleanse.

  • jcbroe.4329jcbroe.4329 Member ✭✭✭

    Healing Spring is getting buffed to remove 2 conditions per tick in the next patch. Utility wise that should make it competitive with WS.

    Jroh | Former SOAC Ranger Podcaster | Top 100 PvP
    https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat
    www.twitch.tv/itsJROH
    [BoRP]

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:
    While I won't say no to making Survival skills remove conditions inherently, I would point out that core Ranger has access to condition removal without Wilderness Knowledge.

    Healing Spring (Heal Skill) removes up to five conditions on the ranger and allies while standing in it.

    Evasive Purity (Nature Magic Master trait) removes a damaging and non-damaging condition when the ranger dodges, with an ICD on ten seconds.

    Also Signet of Renewal +Brutish Seal remove 13 conditions every 40 sec. Brown Bear remove 2 condi every 25 sec.
    @will de grijze jager.6594 , I understand that you want to have Marks/Skirmish/Beastmastery traits lines and the possibility to remove the same amount of condition like you do now with Survival, but do you thought that will make core ranger (vanila ranger) too OP?

    What if they make it a core feature of Survival skills? Atm they could be just plain out skills in every category.
    Lets say they remove 1 condi per skill usage. And an additional one if traited?

  • @jcbroe.4329 said:
    Healing Spring is getting buffed to remove 2 conditions per tick in the next patch. Utility wise that should make it competitive with WS.

    Well, this will be good (maybe too good) but for sPVP mostly. Because in WvW roaming, you can't be static in fights, most of the time you kite , and atm survival skills are very useful.
    PS: we don't know for sure what will be in next patch. many things can be changed from what they posted 2 weeks ago.

  • @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:
    While I won't say no to making Survival skills remove conditions inherently, I would point out that core Ranger has access to condition removal without Wilderness Knowledge.

    Healing Spring (Heal Skill) removes up to five conditions on the ranger and allies while standing in it.

    Evasive Purity (Nature Magic Master trait) removes a damaging and non-damaging condition when the ranger dodges, with an ICD on ten seconds.

    Also Signet of Renewal +Brutish Seal remove 13 conditions every 40 sec. Brown Bear remove 2 condi every 25 sec.
    @will de grijze jager.6594 , I understand that you want to have Marks/Skirmish/Beastmastery traits lines and the possibility to remove the same amount of condition like you do now with Survival, but do you thought that will make core ranger (vanila ranger) too OP?

    What if they make it a core feature of Survival skills? Atm they could be just plain out skills in every category.
    Lets say they remove 1 condi per skill usage. And an additional one if traited?

    Would be interesting

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2018

    @jcbroe.4329 said:
    Healing Spring is getting buffed to remove 2 conditions per tick in the next patch. Utility wise that should make it competitive with WS.

    Yeah, Healing Spring + Wilderness Knowledge + Soften the Fall makes for a pretty potent initial cleanse, plus a solid sustained cleanse for 10 seconds. You could have a scourge kitten down your throat and you won't die to conditions so long as you're standing in a healing spring (post buff). Downside is that you're not getting the sustained healing from TU or the boon refresh of WHaO (which is getting nerfed, because lets face it we use it for the might). Its still the weakest heal against power builds.

    Run that combo and then something else for the heal's downtime (Druid cleanse, survival skills, traits that proc survival skills) and you'll be golden against any conditions in the game. I wouldn't even run the signet since it relies on the pet and still doesn't work some of the time.

    Its certainly a turnaround from the pre-HoT days where Rangers had the worst options for cleansing. Now we have some of the best.

    As for the topic at hand, considering how many survival skills you can fill your bar with, and the two traits which proc survival skills (one on 15s pet swap and one on 20-30s heal) I feel it'd be a little too potent for all that stuff to cleanse 2 conditions out of the box. 1 out of the box and 2 if traited might be interesting.

    ~ Kovu

    Fort Aspenwood,
    Ranger, Necromancer.

  • @Diak Atoli.2085 said:
    While I won't say no to making Survival skills remove conditions inherently, I would point out that core Ranger has access to condition removal without Wilderness Knowledge.

    Healing Spring (Heal Skill) removes up to five conditions on the ranger and allies while standing in it.

    Evasive Purity (Nature Magic Master trait) removes a damaging and non-damaging condition when the ranger dodges, with an ICD on ten seconds.

    My point is more you mostly need traits for removing condis yes you have healing spring and sigil of rene that are only 2 really lackluster skills.

  • @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @will de grijze jager.6594 said:

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:
    While I won't say no to making Survival skills remove conditions inherently, I would point out that core Ranger has access to condition removal without Wilderness Knowledge.

    Healing Spring (Heal Skill) removes up to five conditions on the ranger and allies while standing in it.

    Evasive Purity (Nature Magic Master trait) removes a damaging and non-damaging condition when the ranger dodges, with an ICD on ten seconds.

    Also Signet of Renewal +Brutish Seal remove 13 conditions every 40 sec. Brown Bear remove 2 condi every 25 sec.
    @will de grijze jager.6594 , I understand that you want to have Marks/Skirmish/Beastmastery traits lines and the possibility to remove the same amount of condition like you do now with Survival, but do you thought that will make core ranger (vanila ranger) too OP?

    Not really it will give it a chance agianst the op builds and open more kind of build for ranger they you would have like, druid, soulbeast and Core ranger and all of them you can take then wildernees or skimish nature mag or marks. For core ranger you can now really chose for 3 lines and not be stuk with 1 line always. For Druid you have the chose for 2 trait line and not always take wilderness and only have 1 other trait and the same for soulbeast.

    Think of this ... atm druid is very strong (he use survival for condi) , soulbeast is strong too but he use survival for condi too, because Bear Stance is not enough and vs power build is very weak. Well, if these to specialization Druid and Soulbeast, are pretty strong using survival skills, do you realize how they will be when they will take another traits line instead?
    For example, Soulbeast with Marksmanship (Stoneform+Brutish Seal) has 5 sec of invulnerability vs power damage every 56 sec! If he use Signet of Stone, he will have another 6 sec of invulnerability every 64 sec. So vs power build he is pretty strong in defense , in the mean time his Attack Power and Damage is high, but ... he lacks in condi remove, and he die very quick vs condi build, that's why ppl trade Marksmanship with Survival. Because Soulbeast has many posibility to evade/dodge/leap vs direct damage, but vs condi damage you need condi cleanse.

    I know someone would use htat command and was hoping for it. They can put If you chose druid or soulbeast this effect will happen lines. like for druid it should get if you chose druid your pets damage will be reduced with 25% bam your powercreep gone because druid it self doesn't do the damage the pet does. they can also put like for druid and soulbeast your wildernees skills will only remove 1 condi line and if you chose the trait line wk you will get the 2 condi or even 3 i don't know.

  • @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:
    While I won't say no to making Survival skills remove conditions inherently, I would point out that core Ranger has access to condition removal without Wilderness Knowledge.

    Healing Spring (Heal Skill) removes up to five conditions on the ranger and allies while standing in it.

    Evasive Purity (Nature Magic Master trait) removes a damaging and non-damaging condition when the ranger dodges, with an ICD on ten seconds.

    Also Signet of Renewal +Brutish Seal remove 13 conditions every 40 sec. Brown Bear remove 2 condi every 25 sec.
    @will de grijze jager.6594 , I understand that you want to have Marks/Skirmish/Beastmastery traits lines and the possibility to remove the same amount of condition like you do now with Survival, but do you thought that will make core ranger (vanila ranger) too OP?

    What if they make it a core feature of Survival skills? Atm they could be just plain out skills in every category.
    Lets say they remove 1 condi per skill usage. And an additional one if traited?

    Or let the trait be the same give them 3 if traited. and base line remove 1 condi. that would be okay to.

  • @Kovu.7560 said:

    @jcbroe.4329 said:
    Healing Spring is getting buffed to remove 2 conditions per tick in the next patch. Utility wise that should make it competitive with WS.

    Yeah, Healing Spring + Wilderness Knowledge + Soften the Fall makes for a pretty potent initial cleanse, plus a solid sustained cleanse for 10 seconds. You could have a scourge kitten down your throat and you won't die to conditions so long as you're standing in a healing spring (post buff). Downside is that you're not getting the sustained healing from TU or the boon refresh of WHaO (which is getting nerfed, because lets face it we use it for the might). Its still the weakest heal against power builds.

    Run that combo and then something else for the heal's downtime (Druid cleanse, survival skills, traits that proc survival skills) and you'll be golden against any conditions in the game. I wouldn't even run the signet since it relies on the pet and still doesn't work some of the time.

    Its certainly a turnaround from the pre-HoT days where Rangers had the worst options for cleansing. Now we have some of the best.

    As for the topic at hand, considering how many survival skills you can fill your bar with, and the two traits which proc survival skills (one on 15s pet swap and one on 20-30s heal) I feel it'd be a little too potent for all that stuff to cleanse 2 conditions out of the box. 1 out of the box and 2 if traited might be interesting.

    ~ Kovu

    okay for the seek of brain storming, that 1 condi cleans base line would be okay i would say let the trait be the same then giving you 3 each skill. that would open the build option because you only need then tu for healing skill and 1 util like lighting reflex.

  • @will de grijze jager.6594 said:

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @will de grijze jager.6594 said:

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:
    While I won't say no to making Survival skills remove conditions inherently, I would point out that core Ranger has access to condition removal without Wilderness Knowledge.

    Healing Spring (Heal Skill) removes up to five conditions on the ranger and allies while standing in it.

    Evasive Purity (Nature Magic Master trait) removes a damaging and non-damaging condition when the ranger dodges, with an ICD on ten seconds.

    Also Signet of Renewal +Brutish Seal remove 13 conditions every 40 sec. Brown Bear remove 2 condi every 25 sec.
    @will de grijze jager.6594 , I understand that you want to have Marks/Skirmish/Beastmastery traits lines and the possibility to remove the same amount of condition like you do now with Survival, but do you thought that will make core ranger (vanila ranger) too OP?

    Not really it will give it a chance agianst the op builds and open more kind of build for ranger they you would have like, druid, soulbeast and Core ranger and all of them you can take then wildernees or skimish nature mag or marks. For core ranger you can now really chose for 3 lines and not be stuk with 1 line always. For Druid you have the chose for 2 trait line and not always take wilderness and only have 1 other trait and the same for soulbeast.

    Think of this ... atm druid is very strong (he use survival for condi) , soulbeast is strong too but he use survival for condi too, because Bear Stance is not enough and vs power build is very weak. Well, if these to specialization Druid and Soulbeast, are pretty strong using survival skills, do you realize how they will be when they will take another traits line instead?
    For example, Soulbeast with Marksmanship (Stoneform+Brutish Seal) has 5 sec of invulnerability vs power damage every 56 sec! If he use Signet of Stone, he will have another 6 sec of invulnerability every 64 sec. So vs power build he is pretty strong in defense , in the mean time his Attack Power and Damage is high, but ... he lacks in condi remove, and he die very quick vs condi build, that's why ppl trade Marksmanship with Survival. Because Soulbeast has many posibility to evade/dodge/leap vs direct damage, but vs condi damage you need condi cleanse.

    I know someone would use htat command and was hoping for it. They can put If you chose druid or soulbeast this effect will happen lines. like for druid it should get if you chose druid your pets damage will be reduced with 25% bam your powercreep gone because druid it self doesn't do the damage the pet does. they can also put like for druid and soulbeast your wildernees skills will only remove 1 condi line and if you chose the trait line wk you will get the 2 condi or even 3 i don't know.

    If you think Anet will do such a complicated mechanic for 1 class with core and another 2 specialization, you are wrong. Like I said before, when we ask/suggest something we should have in mind how this will influence the all 3 type of your class, the other classes and how easy or hard could this be for developer.

  • If you think Anet will do such a complicated mechanic for 1 class with core and another 2 specialization, you are wrong. Like I said before, when we ask/suggest something we should have in mind how this will influence the all 3 type of your class, the other classes and how easy or hard could this be for developer.

    It is funny but if they would do that it will help them in the long run, if there will be more and more elite specs thsi will become a bigger and bigger problem that there will be more stuff like druid healing like grezy and still doing lot of damage because of the pet. They can solve those problems by adding elite spec line like if you are this you do less that or this will effect you like htis and so on(see Soulbeast they have stuff that effect with beastmaster). This is not only for ranger the problem thsi is for every elite spec and the only solution is not to nerf the core class no, it is to add lines that chance the problems a way. see the 25% damage reduction for druid.

  • Khailyn.6248Khailyn.6248 Member ✭✭✭

    Just wanted to add that just having druid (without using wilderness survival or any other condition cleanse abilities) you have Druidic Clarity on a relatively short cooldown which removes 13 conditions (only professions that can remove this many at once i think are spellbreaker and necromancer) and Verdant Etching, so if you have 5 glyphs on your bar youre doing the same thing as a bar full of survival skills. 1 condi clear per skill activation on short/medium cooldowns. As others above have said well, ranger has plenty of access to condition management, more than many professions have.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2018

    Yeah, except glyphs are kind of garbage, and the thing about that 13-cleanse ability is that you have to pop it to access your primary specialization mechanic. It can be baited. Verdant Etching isn't stellar because you have to wait in the small circle for the seed to blossom (which I think is 1 second?) and 2 conditions per skill activation > 1 condition per skill activation, and survival skills are much more useful in their own right. You'd sooner see me equipping the shout runes and running a shout build than relying on the soon-to-be-nerfed-more CA2 skill and the glyphs/trait. Anet hates Druids.

    Also, @will de grijze jager.6594, if Survival skills removed 1 condition baseline I couldn't see the trait removing 3. That would get a little crazy as we could pretty much build to be immune to conditions forever.

    ~ Kovu

    Fort Aspenwood,
    Ranger, Necromancer.

  • @will de grijze jager.6594 said:
    the only solution is not to nerf the core class no, it is to add lines that chance the problems a way

    I am agree with this, they shouldn't nerf core class, but only specialization who are too powerful.
    Unfortunately they already nerfed (next week) the core for many classes: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/32510/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release-part-2/p1

    The good news is for WvW players (at least for Rangers) because they didn't nerf too much ranger/druid here.

    @Khailyn.6248 said:
    As others above have said well, ranger has plenty of access to condition management, more than many professions have.

    Right, but because we need to use all those traits/skills for condi cleanse, we lose a lot of damage ... and even we are a range class like mesmer, deadeye our damage is not equal whit their. When I say is not equal I have in mind that we can't use a zerk gear for do almost the same damage like mesmer/deadye because we lose too much from our survivability, they don't (due to many dodges.invisibility etc).

  • Khailyn.6248Khailyn.6248 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @will de grijze jager.6594 said:
    the only solution is not to nerf the core class no, it is to add lines that chance the problems a way

    I am agree with this, they shouldn't nerf core class, but only specialization who are too powerful.
    Unfortunately they already nerfed (next week) the core for many classes: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/32510/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release-part-2/p1

    The good news is for WvW players (at least for Rangers) because they didn't nerf too much ranger/druid here.

    @Khailyn.6248 said:
    As others above have said well, ranger has plenty of access to condition management, more than many professions have.

    Right, but because we need to use all those traits/skills for condi cleanse, we lose a lot of damage ... and even we are a range class like mesmer, deadeye our damage is not equal whit their. When I say is not equal I have in mind that we can't use a zerk gear for do almost the same damage like mesmer/deadye because we lose too much from our survivability, they don't (due to many dodges.invisibility etc).

    I personally dont think ranger damage is bad. Nor do I think its fair to compare ranger to a deadeye. Yes deadeyes have a lot of evasions and stealth, but they have mediocre condition cleanse, and their damage tends to be more bursty. Only since changing the Mark to refresh itself did the damage become what it is now. Also, ranger doesnt need damage equal to deadeye b/c while rangers have access to Spotter and spirits, if not also might stacking with druid, deadeyes support is near nonexistant. Guardians are in the same boat of not having the highest damage, but their support makes up for it. Mesmers.. sigh.. not much to say about mesmer. A profession given too much of everything so I'll agree with you on that point.

  • @Khailyn.6248 said:
    I personally dont think ranger damage is bad.

    Agree, the ranger damage is not bad , but if you want to burst like mesmer or thief you need to go zerk. In zerk with glass cannon build you can do almost (because still you are behind) the same damage like a zerk Mesmer or Thief, but the big difference is that you (ranger) will die in few sec after your burst and Mesmer or Thief don't , they have more abilities to disengage. That's why I made that comparison with those 2 classes. For example if I want to burst like Mesmer of Thief, I must go with zerk gear + Skirmishing+Beastmastery+Soulbeast and yes I can kill someone with rapid fire, but after that I will die for sure if second enemy attack me and this don't apply to Mesmer or Thief ...

  • Khailyn.6248Khailyn.6248 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Khailyn.6248 said:
    I personally dont think ranger damage is bad.

    Agree, the ranger damage is not bad , but if you want to burst like mesmer or thief you need to go zerk. In zerk with glass cannon build you can do almost (because still you are behind) the same damage like a zerk Mesmer or Thief, but the big difference is that you (ranger) will die in few sec after your burst and Mesmer or Thief don't , they have more abilities to disengage. That's why I made that comparison with those 2 classes. For example if I want to burst like Mesmer of Thief, I must go with zerk gear + Skirmishing+Beastmastery+Soulbeast and yes I can kill someone with rapid fire, but after that I will die for sure if second enemy attack me and this don't apply to Mesmer or Thief ...

    Last I checked rangers have evasion with sword, block and evasion with greatsword, stealth with longbow, evasion with shortbow, CC with various weapons, evasion and projectile negation with staff, damage negation with various pets, healing with various pets, access to almost every boon in the game, condition cleansing with various skills, access to ranger specific support, area denial with traps and you can't survive? I don't want to assume anything but this is nearing learning to play better issues. Thieves have less condition cleansing, lower base hp, more burst rather than consistant damage, shorter range, primarily single target damage and no good group support. They should have higher damage and need the evasion abilities more. As I said up above, Mesmer imo has too much of everything. control, damage, boons, evasion, and stealth. All the tools rangers need are there. If after a rapid fire you believe you will get burst on, you should be able to stealth, knock them back to kite, use brown bears endure pain ability, switch weapons to say greatsword so youll have a block available etc.. You seem to be under the impression that mesmers and thieves are invincible which definitely isnt the case.

  • @Khailyn.6248 said:

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Khailyn.6248 said:
    I personally dont think ranger damage is bad.

    Agree, the ranger damage is not bad , but if you want to burst like mesmer or thief you need to go zerk. In zerk with glass cannon build you can do almost (because still you are behind) the same damage like a zerk Mesmer or Thief, but the big difference is that you (ranger) will die in few sec after your burst and Mesmer or Thief don't , they have more abilities to disengage. That's why I made that comparison with those 2 classes. For example if I want to burst like Mesmer of Thief, I must go with zerk gear + Skirmishing+Beastmastery+Soulbeast and yes I can kill someone with rapid fire, but after that I will die for sure if second enemy attack me and this don't apply to Mesmer or Thief ...

    Last I checked rangers have evasion with sword, block and evasion with greatsword, stealth with longbow, evasion with shortbow, CC with various weapons, evasion and projectile negation with staff, damage negation with various pets, healing with various pets, access to almost every boon in the game, condition cleansing with various skills, access to ranger specific support, area denial with traps and you can't survive? I don't want to assume anything but this is nearing learning to play better issues. Thieves have less condition cleansing, lower base hp, more burst rather than consistant damage, shorter range, primarily single target damage and no good group support. They should have higher damage and need the evasion abilities more. As I said up above, Mesmer imo has too much of everything. control, damage, boons, evasion, and stealth. All the tools rangers need are there. If after a rapid fire you believe you will get burst on, you should be able to stealth, knock them back to kite, use brown bears endure pain ability, switch weapons to say greatsword so youll have a block available etc.. You seem to be under the impression that mesmers and thieves are invincible which definitely isnt the case.

    K, please come with your Ranger glass cannon and fight vs me (survival/nature/soulbeast + marauder or wanderer or Paladin+Leadership for sPVP) and see how much will help you all those evasion/block etc ... maybe if you can have it from whole weapons you listed :) . I am sure you will die pretty fast ... like did almost all glass cannon rangers in sPVP or WvW.
    I didn't say we don't have evade/block, 2 stealth ... but if you want to play a burst build like Mesmer and Thief do, you don't have enough traits/skills who can help you to survive like those 2 classes do. And I can prove you this anytime. Vs good players glass cannon ranger don't have the same chances like Mesmer or Thief have, period.

  • @EnderzShadow.2506 said:

    @Khailyn.6248 said:

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Khailyn.6248 said:
    I personally dont think ranger damage is bad.

    Agree, the ranger damage is not bad , but if you want to burst like mesmer or thief you need to go zerk. In zerk with glass cannon build you can do almost (because still you are behind) the same damage like a zerk Mesmer or Thief, but the big difference is that you (ranger) will die in few sec after your burst and Mesmer or Thief don't , they have more abilities to disengage. That's why I made that comparison with those 2 classes. For example if I want to burst like Mesmer of Thief, I must go with zerk gear + Skirmishing+Beastmastery+Soulbeast and yes I can kill someone with rapid fire, but after that I will die for sure if second enemy attack me and this don't apply to Mesmer or Thief ...

    Last I checked rangers have evasion with sword, block and evasion with greatsword, stealth with longbow, evasion with shortbow, CC with various weapons, evasion and projectile negation with staff, damage negation with various pets, healing with various pets, access to almost every boon in the game, condition cleansing with various skills, access to ranger specific support, area denial with traps and you can't survive? I don't want to assume anything but this is nearing learning to play better issues. Thieves have less condition cleansing, lower base hp, more burst rather than consistant damage, shorter range, primarily single target damage and no good group support. They should have higher damage and need the evasion abilities more. As I said up above, Mesmer imo has too much of everything. control, damage, boons, evasion, and stealth. All the tools rangers need are there. If after a rapid fire you believe you will get burst on, you should be able to stealth, knock them back to kite, use brown bears endure pain ability, switch weapons to say greatsword so youll have a block available etc.. You seem to be under the impression that mesmers and thieves are invincible which definitely isnt the case.

    Please show me this sword, greatsword, short bow, Longbow staff build you're running.

    :D

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just sitting here eating popcorn and think what happened to the survival skill discussion.^^

    Once i had an idea that survoval skills on default are all stunbreaks, it would be broken as hell for sure. But the idea was kinda cool (but not really serious).

    But think if the question: What are survival skills?

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Just sitting here eating popcorn and think what happened to the survival skill discussion.^^

    Once i had an idea that survoval skills on default are all stunbreaks, it would be broken as hell for sure. But the idea was kinda cool (but not really serious).

    But think if the question: What are survival skills?

    Skills that help you survive...?

    You can't use the argument "lets throw all of the tools to survive in the game onto these skills because they're called survival skills", if that's what you're alluding to. I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for by posing that question. Enlighten us.

    ~ Kovu

    Fort Aspenwood,
    Ranger, Necromancer.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Just sitting here eating popcorn and think what happened to the survival skill discussion.^^

    Once i had an idea that survoval skills on default are all stunbreaks, it would be broken as hell for sure. But the idea was kinda cool (but not really serious).

    But think if the question: What are survival skills?

    Skills that help you survive...?

    You can't use the argument "lets throw all of the tools to survive in the game onto these skills because they're called survival skills", if that's what you're alluding to. I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for by posing that question. Enlighten us.

    ~ Kovu

    To "enlighten" you, i want to clarify.
    What is unique on survival skills?
    Only thing i know is that they have nothing incommon with eachother which makes them kinda unique.
    So basically what makes survival skills unique or how could they make unique is my question.
    I mean it literally as a question an not something retorical as you are implying.

    These skills are useful but they have no fixed function in between the lines.
    Part is condi, part is power, part is AoE CC, part gives boons, part does not etc.
    So how would you reiterate them that they have a unique function?

  • owler.6804owler.6804 Member ✭✭

    These skills are useful but they have no fixed function in between the lines.
    Part is condi, part is power, part is AoE CC, part gives boons, part does not etc.
    So how would you reiterate them that they have a unique function?

    They help you survive.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    "Unique" is what they are.

    They're diversified for a reason. They're not all supposed to have something in common -- they each contribute in their own way either offensively, defensively or both -- and one of the skills is the best stunbreak on ranger 'cause it gives you a backward evade to avoid chain-stunning (the vigor is a cherry as far as I'm concerned) which is the closest thing core ranger will get to a teleport. If you want survival skills to have something in common trait for the fury and condition removal, but even then its best to use them for their actual effects more than for the fury and condition removal.

    All of the different types of skills in this game on each class have different functions. They don't have to share something in common. I often joke about wishing I could equip 4 copies of Signet of Stone when fighting against thieves to deal with the obscene amount of resetting they have access to and warriors (to fight against their sustain) but the skills are supposed to be different to contribute to different situations in different ways.

    ~ Kovu

    Fort Aspenwood,
    Ranger, Necromancer.

  • @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Just sitting here eating popcorn and think what happened to the survival skill discussion.^^

    Once i had an idea that survoval skills on default are all stunbreaks, it would be broken as hell for sure. But the idea was kinda cool (but not really serious).

    But think if the question: What are survival skills?

    Skills that help you survive...?

    You can't use the argument "lets throw all of the tools to survive in the game onto these skills because they're called survival skills", if that's what you're alluding to. I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for by posing that question. Enlighten us.

    ~ Kovu

    To "enlighten" you, i want to clarify.
    What is unique on survival skills?
    Only thing i know is that they have nothing incommon with eachother which makes them kinda unique.
    So basically what makes survival skills unique or how could they make unique is my question.
    I mean it literally as a question an not something retorical as you are implying.

    These skills are useful but they have no fixed function in between the lines.
    Part is condi, part is power, part is AoE CC, part gives boons, part does not etc.
    So how would you reiterate them that they have a unique function?

    Still , all survival skills (only Sharpening Stone is from another movie) gives you something to survive: some give you breaks stun or evade, superspeed, or give enemy cripple, slow, immobilize.
    That's why they called them survival skills :) ... at least this is my opinion.

  • I like it to see that my command has made a big dicussion. The survival skills having a base 1 condi cleans would be propably the best for core ranger. Still think they should add the command line idea in will solve them a lot of problems with futere elite specs.

  • @will de grijze jager.6594 said:
    I like it to see that my command has made a big dicussion. The survival skills having a base 1 condi cleans would be propably the best for core ranger. Still think they should add the command line idea in will solve them a lot of problems with futere elite specs.

    I don't think they will make ever survival skill to clean 1 condi without survival traits line. Atm Wilderness Survival is mandatory for ranger (when condi build are everywhere) mainly for Wilderness Knowledge, otherway Nature Magic is much better for survivability. But we will see if what you said will happen in the future.

  • @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @will de grijze jager.6594 said:
    I like it to see that my command has made a big dicussion. The survival skills having a base 1 condi cleans would be propably the best for core ranger. Still think they should add the command line idea in will solve them a lot of problems with futere elite specs.

    I don't think they will make ever survival skill to clean 1 condi without survival traits line. Atm Wilderness Survival is mandatory for ranger (when condi build are everywhere) mainly for Wilderness Knowledge, otherway Nature Magic is much better for survivability. But we will see if what you said will happen in the future.

    Would be great right if it would happen more build freedom

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