Anet Trait overhaul Please!

Dear anet,

Some of the trait lines are great an example is Valor from Guardian or Wilderness survival from Ranger or Defence for warrior. But next to the great trait lines there are trait lines that are not good. For Guardian honor. It would be good if you move some of the trati and combin others for example, Invigorated bulwark and Protextive reviver could be combined so it will be a real chose. The master traits has 2 strong 1 and 1 that i would say move it to major. The one that i would say move it to major is pure of heart. Before the trait chance it was a major and not master or add it with pure of vioce for making the a real hard chance with grand master to chose. This is an example for the guardian for the other classes you have the same problem that some traitlines are really lacking.

Honor is a very powerful trait line for a support guardian. Oddly, Guardian is one of the classes that doesn't have any trait lines I'd never use.

Explosives on Engineer, on the other hand...

@Ben K.6238 said:Honor is a very powerful trait line for a support guardian. Oddly, Guardian is one of the classes that doesn't have any trait lines I'd never use.

Explosives on Engineer, on the other hand...

i would never use Protextive reviver because it is bad. A lot of traits on all classes are almost never used like protextive reviver. Because there are so much better options then that. The major traits are a joke in honor, master trait and grandmaster are good but major......., pure of heart of hard was a major trait in the old system and now master. What it does is not even a chose if you see the other 2 master traits.

allot of traits in the necro line would be better redone then used, the also all but destroyed certain builds that worked perfectly till they changed it in this system.for instance, wells worked perfectly if it was not target able so you could combine it with D/D, now wells are useless with that build and makes the D/D build weaker. (thanks Anet for that)they could've made the minion master trait line so much better but no, they pretty much ignored the great ideas and only makes them subpar at best.add more minions per 15 levels, make corpses matter so you can improve the power of death magic skills, make the flesh golem controllable like a pet so you are an actual minion master and not some scrub that can summon zombies.

so many missed opportunities and they just screw it up, it's time they hire someone who has more passion behind the professions they balance instead of a biased person that doesn't even know the difference between a pencil and a pen.

Because no one can agree on which trait lines need to be overhauled, I'd say this means none need to be overhauled.

@DarcShriek.5829 said:Because no one can agree on which trait lines need to be overhauled, I'd say this means none need to be overhauled.All the trait lines for all classes except mesmer need a rework. It is easy start with 1 trait line for each class and go from there.

If ANet ever makes again a rework of the Trait System, they should make sure, that it stays after that the last one - as a reminder, they have already changed the Trait System like 3 times and the only moment where it would make sense to touch that system again as an attempt to rework and rebalance it in one go is, for when they make an underwaterbased expansion, hopefulyl the next third 1 leading us to Cantha, the unending ocean has become with the last patch massively PRESENERTIVE now, than before, kind of suspicious that the world map shos us npow so much more of the unending ocean, than before, that you kind of get the impression, that this has been done for the next expansion leading us to an underwater expansion. otgherwise it would make not sense to change the scaling of the world map, and let us see now like tripple as much of the ocean, than before of the latest patch...

An expansion, that if it reworks the traits, should naturally consider everything for an reworked underwater combat system that should come with such a kind of expansion..kind of what I have described all in that one thread where you should say what you want, that would satisfy you - I kind of wrote up there a detailed explanation of my vsion of the 3rd expansion, which would be that ONE thing that would satisfy me the most now - and to this belongs naturally also under a trait system rework the implementation of complete own Underwater Traits for all Classes, so that each class should have its complete own Land Traits, which are active, while you are over water on land, and their complete own different underwater traits, which become the moment active and switch out the land traits, when you go into water and dive down.

Aside of this, I think the Trait System should get for each class expanded to create more Build Diversity.... all classes should have instead of 3 minimum 4 active Trait Lines useable and should be able to choose not only from 5 but maximum 7 or 8 Trait Lines.All Classes easily have to potential for 2 to 3 more Trait Lines that could define the Gameplay Styles of the Classes.Just 3 Examples, 1 for each Class Type.

Warrior

• Leadership
• Motivation
• Combat Stances

That are two of the old Paragon Traitlines, that woulkd perfectly fit to Warrior as additional Traitlines, plus eventually as third line "Combat Stances" as a traitlone which influences in a different way how you play a Warrior and has strong influences on the Weapon Skills based on your used Stances in combination of either defensive, offensive or supportive Combat Stance traits being in usage together with them..

Thief

• Disarmaments
• Cunning
• Dexterity

Trait Lines, which cold put more focus on Boon Stealing, Boon Sharing, Traps, Dodge Styles, Counter Attacks/Parades/Blocks and Conditions to which the Thief has not so much access to so far, like Burning or Boons like Stability

Elementalist

• Summons
• Heraldry
• Source of Ether

Letting the Elementalist have a Traitline, that specializes much more on the summons and created elemental weapons to change the way how they work, what you can do with them ect., making Eles as Summoners of Elementals much stronger and more comparable to Minion Master Necromancers which currently totally outshadow "Summoner" Eles that make usage of their Elementals to the point, that id love to see alternatively Summoner become one Ele E-Spec, should the game get not more Traitlines for each Class to increase this way their Build Diversity. Heraldry could help the Eles as Traitline to receive more environmental impact in the game, by influencign strogner weather effects for example that affect the environment..strong environmental heraldic rituals that take their time to perform, but if you don't stop them from being cast will have strong effects knd of style traits, that have heavy influence on certain Ele Skills if you use them, turnign with these Traits your Ele kind of into powerful "Sages" of the Elements and Nature which influence with their rituals far more than just only Fire, Wind, Eath and Water itself on a low scale., but with that traitline also on a higher scale level, therefore that it will make you cost more time to perform your spells and cause Exhaustion on you after performing them, giving the Elementalist this way back some GW1 nostalgia, where performign the most powerful spells caused exhaustion to the Elementalist.

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:Honor is a very powerful trait line for a support guardian. Oddly, Guardian is one of the classes that doesn't have any trait lines I'd never use.

Explosives on Engineer, on the other hand...

''i don't use it so its baddddd''

protective reviver is a strong trait in support

in fractals/wvw its a free bubble to destroy projectiles

pure of heart while good on its own was broken with firebrand

the Honor trait is a really strong trait line for healing

Key here is to note Anet's word choice when dealing with trait lines. And that is usually along the lines of under-utilized. By that word choice I have assumed that they mean they have read through active player builds and marked items not being used across the player base and use those as targets for improvements. The risk here though is a single player may not be using a line that doesn't mean that others are not and you risk disrupting game play as players have to re-gear now that part of their build doesn't work as intended. If a player was enjoying that build you also run the risk of ill will since player may have spent extended time acquiring materials for equipment. Would be different if Anet had some way to compensate for that gear loss but there isn't one today. Even in this thread alone people have indicate where one person sees an issue with a trait line and others have indicated they use/like it. So slippery slope indeed.

My problem with trait lines is that several of them are poorly built thematically.There's several cases of ill-fitting trait-lines where you have stuff like purely offensive traits in minor and major slots, and then a single great, must use support trait in the grandmaster, this creates an awkward choice for people, and can be confusing for new players.

Basically they should regroup traits, and rework them so that each line fits a properly designed theme. Elementalist and Revenant do this somewhat well, but there's still a lot of confusion and mix-signals there. So far the current specialization/trait system is a bit messy and poorly communicated, between that and the weird implementation of Elite specializations, there's a small wonder that a lot of new players get easily overwhelmed by the system. Even i some times have a tough time getting a build for classes i play less, since you really have to remember a lot of interactions between traits, and skills, and stats.

@infrequentia.3465 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:Honor is a very powerful trait line for a support guardian. Oddly, Guardian is one of the classes that doesn't have any trait lines I'd never use.

Explosives on Engineer, on the other hand...

I don't think Protective Reviver is bad but I don't think the bubble is worth considering either because that is way too conditional. Faster revive and giving boons that helps the person avoid getting downed again are useful things to have if that is what you are aiming for.

Cough Elusive mind cough

I am of mixed feelings on this topic. I would like to see some traits changed, but am tired of trait overhauls.

@"Orpheal.8263" said:If ANet ever makes again a rework of the Trait System, they should make sure, that it stays after that the last one - as a reminder, they have already changed the Trait System like 3 times and the only moment where it would make sense to touch that system again as an attempt to rework and rebalance it in one go is, for when they make an underwaterbased expansion, hopefulyl the next third 1 leading us to Cantha, the unending ocean has become with the last patch massively PRESENERTIVE now, than before, kind of suspicious that the world map shos us npow so much more of the unending ocean, than before, that you kind of get the impression, that this has been done for the next expansion leading us to an underwater expansion. otgherwise it would make not sense to change the scaling of the world map, and let us see now like tripple as much of the ocean, than before of the latest patch...

An expansion, that if it reworks the traits, should naturally consider everything for an reworked underwater combat system that should come with such a kind of expansion..kind of what I have described all in that one thread where you should say what you want, that would satisfy you - I kind of wrote up there a detailed explanation of my vsion of the 3rd expansion, which would be that ONE thing that would satisfy me the most now - and to this belongs naturally also under a trait system rework the implementation of complete own Underwater Traits for all Classes, so that each class should have its complete own Land Traits, which are active, while you are over water on land, and their complete own different underwater traits, which become the moment active and switch out the land traits, when you go into water and dive down.

Aside of this, I think the Trait System should get for each class expanded to create more Build Diversity.... all classes should have instead of 3 minimum 4 active Trait Lines useable and should be able to choose not only from 5 but maximum 7 or 8 Trait Lines.All Classes easily have to potential for 2 to 3 more Trait Lines that could define the Gameplay Styles of the Classes.Just 3 Examples, 1 for each Class Type.

Warrior

• Leadership
• Motivation
• Combat Stances

That are two of the old Paragon Traitlines, that woulkd perfectly fit to Warrior as additional Traitlines, plus eventually as third line "Combat Stances" as a traitlone which influences in a different way how you play a Warrior and has strong influences on the Weapon Skills based on your used Stances in combination of either defensive, offensive or supportive Combat Stance traits being in usage together with them..

Thief

• Disarmaments
• Cunning
• Dexterity

Trait Lines, which cold put more focus on Boon Stealing, Boon Sharing, Traps, Dodge Styles, Counter Attacks/Parades/Blocks and Conditions to which the Thief has not so much access to so far, like Burning or Boons like Stability

Elementalist

• Summons
• Heraldry
• Source of Ether

Letting the Elementalist have a Traitline, that specializes much more on the summons and created elemental weapons to change the way how they work, what you can do with them ect., making Eles as Summoners of Elementals much stronger and more comparable to Minion Master Necromancers which currently totally outshadow "Summoner" Eles that make usage of their Elementals to the point, that id love to see alternatively Summoner become one Ele E-Spec, should the game get not more Traitlines for each Class to increase this way their Build Diversity. Heraldry could help the Eles as Traitline to receive more environmental impact in the game, by influencign strogner weather effects for example that affect the environment..strong environmental heraldic rituals that take their time to perform, but if you don't stop them from being cast will have strong effects knd of style traits, that have heavy influence on certain Ele Skills if you use them, turnign with these Traits your Ele kind of into powerful "Sages" of the Elements and Nature which influence with their rituals far more than just only Fire, Wind, Eath and Water itself on a low scale., but with that traitline also on a higher scale level, therefore that it will make you cost more time to perform your spells and cause Exhaustion on you after performing them, giving the Elementalist this way back some GW1 nostalgia, where performign the most powerful spells caused exhaustion to the Elementalist.

i only ment trait line updates/works not system chance. Would love to have the old system back but, that is a other post.

@TheGrimm.5624 said:Key here is to note Anet's word choice when dealing with trait lines. And that is usually along the lines of under-utilized. By that word choice I have assumed that they mean they have read through active player builds and marked items not being used across the player base and use those as targets for improvements. The risk here though is a single player may not be using a line that doesn't mean that others are not and you risk disrupting game play as players have to re-gear now that part of their build doesn't work as intended. If a player was enjoying that build you also run the risk of ill will since player may have spent extended time acquiring materials for equipment. Would be different if Anet had some way to compensate for that gear loss but there isn't one today. Even in this thread alone people have indicate where one person sees an issue with a trait line and others have indicated they use/like it. So slippery slope indeed.

I used before they chanced the trait system a shout build that build is destoryed because, they moved traits to places where it shouldn't be for example Pure of Heart was major trait now master and it hasn't been chanced. After the trait system shoud guardian can't be a thing becaus ethe have replaced a lot of trait over mroe then 5 trait lines. I don't say that they need to make a new system. What i'm saying is that some traits are lackluster or mis placed. This is not only on guardian almost all the classes has this problem.

@Ashen.2907 said:I am of mixed feelings on this topic. I would like to see some traits changed, but am tired of trait overhauls.

not a overhaul of the system only traits. Some of the traits only need a relocation.

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:I am of mixed feelings on this topic. I would like to see some traits changed, but am tired of trait overhauls.

Exactly, a restructuring of the trait lines and if possible getting rid of specific weapon related traits, they are annoying and don't even make sense being stranded and spread out all over the trait branches.

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:My problem with trait lines is that several of them are poorly built thematically.There's several cases of ill-fitting trait-lines where you have stuff like purely offensive traits in minor and major slots, and then a single great, must use support trait in the grandmaster, this creates an awkward choice for people, and can be confusing for new players.

Basically they should regroup traits, and rework them so that each line fits a properly designed theme. Elementalist and Revenant do this somewhat well, but there's still a lot of confusion and mix-signals there. So far the current specialization/trait system is a bit messy and poorly communicated, between that and the weird implementation of Elite specializations, there's a small wonder that a lot of new players get easily overwhelmed by the system. Even i some times have a tough time getting a build for classes i play less, since you really have to remember a lot of interactions between traits, and skills, and stats.

Except that type of grouping doesn't work outside of raids, and arguably WvW, because every other game mode doesn't afford you the ability to give up self sustain or personal damage. The bigger issue is that some classes don't have uniform distribution of their mechanics, which makes grouping too many functional traits together too strong or too weak, depending on how the skills/class mechanics interplay. Guardians have symbols and boon in every segment of their skill sets; and what makes the guardian so versatile is how nearly every trait line has direct benefits that capitalize on this. But looking at Engineers and Revanants, they both work on the same design principles of modular traits and accompanying skills. But the Engineer is far more successful at making these concepts work, because their Kits are extremely well designed with a strong spread of "tags" that different trait lines can interact with. Engineer also has traits which operate independent of this kits, but clearly benefit from certain design features of the kits themselves- such as firearms having a bleed on crit minor, and several non-condi weapons which can deal multiple strikes.

Revenants on the other hand have everything narrowed to Weapon/Legend/Trait alignment, and this creates issues where they overspecialize in 1 role (or in some raids, just 1 specific task), and have difficulty addressing any other type of threat. It also makes them very reliant on what their Espec offers, as those (thus far) are the ones to offer the most build synergy.

@"will de grijze jager.6594" said:i would never use Protextive reviver because it is bad.

It's actually fairly decent for a clutch res in pvp since the knockback can prevent a stomp.Also in FotM with Avengers/Vindicators if your ally is stunned and cannot use their escape/CC.

While I agree it's not always the best option for many builds, I feel it's far from "bad".

@starlinvf.1358 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:My problem with trait lines is that several of them are poorly built thematically.There's several cases of ill-fitting trait-lines where you have stuff like purely offensive traits in minor and major slots, and then a single great, must use support trait in the grandmaster, this creates an awkward choice for people, and can be confusing for new players.

Basically they should regroup traits, and rework them so that each line fits a properly designed theme. Elementalist and Revenant do this somewhat well, but there's still a lot of confusion and mix-signals there. So far the current specialization/trait system is a bit messy and poorly communicated, between that and the weird implementation of Elite specializations, there's a small wonder that a lot of new players get easily overwhelmed by the system. Even i some times have a tough time getting a build for classes i play less, since you really have to remember a lot of interactions between traits, and skills, and stats.

The only reason you can't forgo self-sustain is that they removed Reams from sPvP, which impedes, at least for ranked, using more specialized roles.Don't blame their poor management and the community's overall lack of knowledge of the impact of their suggestions/requests.

Also, i love how you disagree with me, to then agree... I guess after starting to think about it beyond the first 3 seconds of duh, you caught on.

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:Honor is a very powerful trait line for a support guardian. Oddly, Guardian is one of the classes that doesn't have any trait lines I'd never use.

Explosives on Engineer, on the other hand...

Just quoting this as one example of many in this thread.

Some people are approaching the trait lines with one perspective. To hear you, or the OP, or others trash the honor line shows how ignorant and how much of a low diversification you have towards your play style of the guardian (or other class) and what game modes you play in.

Protective Reviver is a good trait and one that anyone in WvW would choose unless they are playing a support role, whereas they'd choose Invigorating Bullwark. No one chooses the fall trait. They're all trash, especially with gliding in the game. They should all be removed. All the major traits are good. Honorable staff is good for support. More might, more healing. Pure of heart is good for passive sustain. Empowering might is just OP allowing you to give a constant might stack for you and allies as well as increase your sustain through Altruistic Healing. All of the GM traits are good. If you're running Firebrand, then you'll probably never choose PoV, but if not, you don't have PoF, then it's a solid choice as well. The honor line is a must for any support guardian as it give your heal on dodge, endurance, and vigor. These are all a must for WvW or a support PvP player.

The guardian is very diverse and the different trait lines offer support for those trait lines. Does there need to be some tweaking or getting rid of unused traits? Absolutely. There are a few traits that are just stinkers, or ok, but compared to another choice, never use because the one choice is just too good. But what you, or others have chosen as an example is just dead wrong. Also, they have been going through classes with a fine tooth comb. A few months ago, it was mesmer, then ele, and recently thief. I'm sure they are going to get around to every class. Whether you agree with their changes, is a different story.

Thief is a prime example of this as with Deadeye, and its forced reliance on stealth, it is forcing people to choose SA leaving only one trait line left, usually going to Trickery.

plenty of traits and indeed entire lines could use some love.

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:Honor is a very powerful trait line for a support guardian. Oddly, Guardian is one of the classes that doesn't have any trait lines I'd never use.

Explosives on Engineer, on the other hand...

You really don't know what my perspective is. So to cleam what you did is falls. Honor was always used for 3 things for make a shout build work, support and also buffing yourself. After the trait systeam overhaul they didn't thing about that. honor is now mostly only support see the first 3 minor triats. the master traits has some real good stuff in it if you could combinate it wiht 3 other trait lines. You could do that in the old system not anymore. You can't make a shout build anymore, because the trait that would make a shout build work are in 4 trait lines. The trait lines are valor, virt, honor and rati. Some trait like in rati should be in honor and some of valor should be in rati and so on.