Mesmer invuln/block/evade uptime needs to be toned down

Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

@Girth.9731 said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

Since the game launched I stood behind the idea that block and evade should just be merged. They perform the EXACT same function, which is completely mitigation of incoming damage with the exception of condi ticks. In addition, evade doesn't have any counter play. While block has unblockable skills available to multiple classes. As it stands evade should NOT be baked on to offensive skills. Defensive skills? Absolutely! But the ability to evade and deal high damage to the opponent is out of proportion. It always been. Its just that in the recent years its become a lot worse.

@Aza.2105 said:

@Girth.9731 said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

Fun fact Evades have counter play but hey that’s just knowing what skills are in game.

Certain skills and effects cannot be evaded, they include:Skills with area denial purposes: Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Dragon's Maw, Unsteady Ground, Static Field, Slick Shoes, Spectral Wall, Temporal Curtain's cripple, and others.The pull skill for Guardian (the chain skill of Binding Blade) and Hunter's Verdict for Dragonhunter (the chain skill of Spear of Justice) are also not able to be evaded.Passive effects that trigger when the enemies are attacked: Retaliation, Auras

@Girth.9731 said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

Seeing Mesmer never confused it’s enemies in the first place... I mean honestly it wasn’t long after release that they good players figured out hey it’s easy to find the right one and since that only people that have issues are just bad at the game.It’s slippery because the premise behind the class is to evade...?

Balance was best(imo) just prior to HoT but we also didn’t have concentration and expertise widely spread and that is a big, if not the biggest, reason behind the power creep.You act like Mesmer can’t be killed. It can, over than a few nerfs that need to happen most of this is a l2p issues.

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Girth.9731 said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

This doesn’t fit the narrative and will be quickly shot down using the pretext that they don’t count.

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Girth.9731 said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

I know right?

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Girth.9731 said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

It’s almost like you’re trying to have a political discussion with far left or far right minded individual and instead of listening to logic they just... ignore it.

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

This doesn’t fit the narrative and will be quickly shot down using the pretext that they don’t count.

No, I'll just laugh at the list. Every skill listed isn't even used to specifically counter evade spam, it just so happens to do it. Furthermore wards can just be stability through. Only spear of justice pull can be evaded, so this means that some how you hit them first and then they decide to magically stay in your LoS waiting for you to pull them. Or further, they decide to fight you in melee range while they are tethered.

When is the last time retaliation was threating other than to a p/p thief? Auras? Come on. the only one that is threatening out of them is shocking aura.

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Girth.9731" said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

You listed out exactly why its healthier that they are not the same thing. Blocking is far more prevalent than evades are, and it has far more counterplay than evades do to compensate for that. Whether the amount of evades in this game need to be toned down is another debate. Besides, dodging is an evade. Under your proposed "solution", we would be able to hit enemies as they are dodging with any unblockable attack

its not the evade spam that is annoying, its the ability that they can still use abilities while they are evadingabilities like franzied furry or even thief sd3 are fine in that context because they have other disadvantage (franzied furry not being able to move, sd3 having a slow animation)but being able to evade while using your heal, your burst etc is just to much, you cant counter the heal, you cant counter the stomp (i know distortion did the same thing, but its on a long cd, but now with distortion AND mirage dodge, its just to much to the point they can always use it for every burst/heal)and before anyone says "but thats mirage gameplay"no it isnt, mirage ambush is its core mechanic, not the ability to freely use anything without being able to counter it (so remove the ability to chain abilities with mirage dodge, but still make ambush as only ability useable in the evade, it would fix alot of problems with that elite spec)

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@Girth.9731 said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

Im not saying mesmer is unkillable; I am able to beat most mesmers I fight, even good ones. I'm not even saying mesmer is op (though some builds are probably a bit too strong right now). I'm just arguing that the design of mesmer has become very unhealthly as I personally would hate to see a return to the block/evade/invuln spam that we were all complaining about after HoT release.

@"OriOri.8724" said:You listed out exactly why its healthier that they are not the same thing. Blocking is far more prevalent than evades are, and it has far more counterplay than evades do to compensate for that. Whether the amount of evades in this game need to be toned down is another debate. Besides, dodging is an evade. Under your proposed "solution", we would be able to hit enemies as they are dodging with any unblockable attack

Except that isn't what I'm saying. I'm talking about evades on weapon skills not dodging.

@Aza.2105 said:

@Girth.9731 said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

I actually like this idea, excluding the evade given by dodge rolling I would like to see all evades and invulns be changed to blocks. Would serve the same function while introducing counterplay.

@Girth.9731 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@Girth.9731 said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

It’s here to stay though. Since the introduction of HoT we now have extreme amounts of boons and conditions. Each patch since will have small nerfs to boon generation here and there but it won’t solve the problem because of concentration stats. So long as we are able to get free boon duration stats damage is going to be high because now it has to be balanced around protection having s high up time. For classes without easy access to it blocks and evades are added. Anet can’t balance boon spam until concentration stats are removed.Conditions are in a similar spot. We should have high intensity/low duration and low intensity/high duration conditions. The former being confusion, burn and torment, the latter being bleed, poison, and chill when traited. However, with easy access to expertise you can’t balance durations. A short duration will become a long duration.

So until these base issues are addressed, ie removed, you won’t be able to have anything else balanced.

It's okay because Anet feels like fighting someone with 5-8 seconds of invul is fun.

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Girth.9731" said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

Right, I even made a video of it. I have very little experience with mesmer and still was running 2v1s. It is broken as shit.

@Egorum.9506 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Girth.9731" said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

Agaisnt sub par opponents. I imagine you’ve ran into ithliwen at some point.

@"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@Egorum.9506 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Girth.9731" said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

What pvp title do you hold again?

Yeah let’s nerf the 2 base dodges everyone has, the evade on sword, and the shatter that cost all clones on a base 50 second cooldown...

I guess if you’re complaining about mirage then maybe I could see desert distortion being annoying but it’s on the same cooldown as distortion and visually obvious enough to play around.

But ya know, every medium with more sustain in healing and some cases more dodge/block/invu/stealth is fine.

Bits of Vigor on the class mechanic only goes so far compared to “I just get flat endurance back!” Or “almost every skill on bar is an evade”

@Egorum.9506 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@Egorum.9506 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Girth.9731" said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

You mean the ones that have been win traded for?

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Girth.9731 said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

Oh look you nailed it, it’s like you are psychic

At this point it's more relaxing to sit back and /popcorn knowing that whatever happens we adapt and continue to succeed.

I agree. Mesmer is over the top right now

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@Egorum.9506 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@Egorum.9506 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"Girth.9731" said:Isn't it funny that the class which is supposed to rely on confusing its enemies to defeat them has become an invuln tank? Not sure why Anet has decided to give mesmer so much invuln/block/evade. I thought after the disaster for balance that HoT release was, Anet was trying to move away from this kind of boring gameplay.

https://imgur.com/sh1jy8g

i put the thread up on reddit describing how it's done, so it's pretty safe to say i didn't have to win trade for mine. Where's yours?