Honestly, don’t do the patch

Don’t release the patch yet if you’re planning to not have more nerfs to mesmer on it.

Mesmer already is the very best class on multiple builds at multiple roles and compared to the rest of the meta it’s nerfed the least. Overall a net buff.

I rather have mesmer being op than seeing absolutly trash teams playing fb+scourge and legit think they are actually good at the game, ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got:)

@dominik.9721 said:I rather have mesmer being op than seeing absolutly trash teams playing fb+scourge and legit think they are actually good at the game, ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got:)So you prefer trash teams running double or ttiple mesmer thinking they’re good ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got?

@dominik.9721 said:I rather have mesmer being op than seeing absolutly trash teams playing fb+scourge and legit think they are actually good at the game, ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got:)

Its FB+Scourge still gonna be a thing on the next season? Scourge did got some cd increase, still will do massive AoE damage, which is allways welcome on a game mode like conquest, and FB got yet another healing nerf and also the removal on Magi Amulet...might not be massive nerfs, but they are legit, gonna have some impact on the way these specs are played...they might still be effective, but wont be as faceroll are they are(or we all hope they wont lol). Thiefs and Mesmers on the other hand, got barely touched, they gonna dominate on their role even more.

There aren't enough Nerf Mesmer threads already. Let's start another one. And let's call this one Nerf Mesmers Into The Dirt, which is the 3rd or 4th such iteration of the same in the past 2 days.

Sheesh.

@dominik.9721 said:I rather have mesmer being op than seeing absolutly trash teams playing fb+scourge and legit think they are actually good at the game, ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got:)

In Automated Tournaments, the meta isn't scourge/fb any more. It's 3 mesmers. This patch will only guarantee that continues.

@BeLZedaR.4790 said:

@dominik.9721 said:I rather have mesmer being op than seeing absolutly trash teams playing fb+scourge and legit think they are actually good at the game, ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got:)So you prefer trash teams running double or ttiple mesmer thinking they’re good ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got?

If Im not mistaken I did write 'I rather would', so I rather would, yes.Considering the comp advantage of fb+scourge vs no fb+scourge is way more massive than the comp advantage of 3 mesmers vs 1 mesmer, it also makes sense.Not to mention that a comp consisting out of fb+scourge+sd thief is better than any tripple mesmer team anyways.

@Vagrant.7206 said:In Automated Tournaments, the meta isn't scourge/fb any more. It's 3 mesmers. This patch will only guarantee that continues.

actually not, actually 9/10 teams run fb+scourge. Those teams who tryhard, run it no matter what and wouldn't even be half as good without.

Agree with the OP.Mesmer needs more nerfs and more postings about how the mesmer needs more nerfs.

@dominik.9721 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:In Automated Tournaments, the meta isn't scourge/fb any more. It's 3 mesmers. This patch will only guarantee that continues.

I play AT's pretty regularly, and I see FB+Scourge teams getting wrecked by teams with 3 mesmers. Why? Short answer is they can individually spike someone hard, but together they can spike someone, no matter how tanky, nearly instantly. Knock out the scourge's FB, and the scourge is toast. Then it's just a few blinks and a jaunt away to cap the other two points.

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:In Automated Tournaments, the meta isn't scourge/fb any more. It's 3 mesmers. This patch will only guarantee that continues.

@dominik.9721 said:I rather have mesmer being op than seeing absolutly trash teams playing fb+scourge and legit think they are actually good at the game, ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got:)

https://www. twitch.tv/videos/242414001?t=00h40m11s3 mesmers being destroyed by scourge fb 1 mesmer ... Mmmmmm ... Why they didnt won ?

@Odik.4587 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:In Automated Tournaments, the meta isn't scourge/fb any more. It's 3 mesmers. This patch will only guarantee that continues.

@dominik.9721 said:I rather have mesmer being op than seeing absolutly trash teams playing fb+scourge and legit think they are actually good at the game, ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got:)

I have also stream content, where my troll team with core guards and power reaper destroys 9 out of 10 tryhard teams in every single AT.Whats your point? Does this mean now that core guard+reaper is better than fb+scourge and tripple mesmer?

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:In Automated Tournaments, the meta isn't scourge/fb any more. It's 3 mesmers. This patch will only guarantee that continues.

I also play it regulary and as I said 9 out of 10 teams play fb+scourge. in today's mAT-Quarter/Semi/Finals there wasn't a single team playing duable or tripple mesmer. but nearly every team played fb+scourge. Guess why. Cos it's super faceroll and even bad players seem decent with it.

I mean I don't even want to defend mesmer right now. It's also way too strong and carries a lot of players who would be actually way worse.

@dominik.9721 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:In Automated Tournaments, the meta isn't scourge/fb any more. It's 3 mesmers. This patch will only guarantee that continues.

@dominik.9721 said:I rather have mesmer being op than seeing absolutly trash teams playing fb+scourge and legit think they are actually good at the game, ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got:)

Merely pointed out that teamcomp with said 3 mesmers that supposed to destroy every single team couldnt win FB+scourge+1 mesmer. Simple?(taken that from jebro NA stream , on NA apparently its common to have 2-3 mesmers in teamcomp)

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@dominik.9721 said:I rather have mesmer being op than seeing absolutly trash teams playing fb+scourge and legit think they are actually good at the game, ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got:)

That’s funny, saw Sindreners streaming of the monthly and there were no triple Mesmer teams, was only one double Mesmer team, saw Teapots stream of the monthly too, no triple mesmer either. Firebrand was in nearly every single game too FYI and even a double guard party!

Huh I wonder if....

...people now seriously wants mesmer to be more balanced or....

...we have new post scourge forum hysteria...

Oh wait it's forums....

@Odik.4587 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:In Automated Tournaments, the meta isn't scourge/fb any more. It's 3 mesmers. This patch will only guarantee that continues.

@dominik.9721 said:I rather have mesmer being op than seeing absolutly trash teams playing fb+scourge and legit think they are actually good at the game, ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got:)

Yea I misunderstood you, thought you were trying to say 3 mesmers > fb+scourgeBut on NA it's also common that the 'best' firebrand opened a thread complaining about too much damage and moved to NA after he failed to win a single daily AT in EU allthough he was playing tryhard comp and was sitting in discord every time

@dominik.9721 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:In Automated Tournaments, the meta isn't scourge/fb any more. It's 3 mesmers. This patch will only guarantee that continues.

@dominik.9721 said:I rather have mesmer being op than seeing absolutly trash teams playing fb+scourge and legit think they are actually good at the game, ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got:)

Its been claimed best firebrand WORLD ,not just on NA :)May be because its NA and there much easier to win finals ? Somone clearly want that best of the best title. Wintrade squad was close enough

@Odik.4587 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:In Automated Tournaments, the meta isn't scourge/fb any more. It's 3 mesmers. This patch will only guarantee that continues.

@dominik.9721 said:I rather have mesmer being op than seeing absolutly trash teams playing fb+scourge and legit think they are actually good at the game, ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got:)

is that me?

@Odik.4587 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@dominik.9721 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:In Automated Tournaments, the meta isn't scourge/fb any more. It's 3 mesmers. This patch will only guarantee that continues.

@dominik.9721 said:I rather have mesmer being op than seeing absolutly trash teams playing fb+scourge and legit think they are actually good at the game, ignoring how much of a comp advantage they got:)

Only because the guardian God, the almighty Tage left GW2. We will forever remember the only guard in the entirety of the game that could make whoever was in a 1v1 with him put down their weapons and have a casual chat because no matter how hard anyone tried you would never kill Tage in a 1v1.

I miss seeing Tage in weeklies.

@BeLZedaR.4790 said:Don’t release the patch yet if you’re planning to not have more nerfs to mesmer on it.

Mesmer already is the very best class on multiple builds at multiple roles and compared to the rest of the meta it’s nerfed the least. Overall a net buff.

Yeh, how does the best class get the least nerfs? So strange.

The patch is actually a step in the right direction. It nerfs passives which nerfs the main problem with SB. It nerfs thief auto damage and double steal. It nerfs Crystal config eclipse which was the main thing that makes fighting holos frustrating. It gives elusive mind an actual drawback. It sort of buffs Revenant or at least tries to. Buffs ele. Cuts FB bunker down. Cuts Celestial Avatar down. Nerfs to scourge cooldowns. All of these are good changes and the patch is fully welcome.

The problem is the patch just doesn't do enough in many cases. The Mesmer nerfs especially are a slap on the wrist. Scourge will still be strong. Guardian outside bunker will hardly change at all. Thief won't really change other than being 10% less annoying. Revenant still will not have an optimal meta build. Ele MIGHT. Maybe just maybe we could see a meta tier ele build come from this. That's about all.

The burst is being nerfed. MA is only going to be 20% when not pushing buttons. the unblockable mirrorblade is getting shaved by 14% all the might stacking across the class is being reduced (which is bigger than any of you realize), jaunt wont secure kills unless condi, can't doge so much with EM, and stability stacking is getting nerfed so you can lock it down more reliably. Class will still have a significant weakness to condi if taking inpiration, and will not do enough damage to down your bruisers who can avoid shatters if rolling inspiration, sure you just can't do it passively as much, but that isn't a problem you should learn to fight it anyways.

So less damage, less secure, less doge, less stab. Still has weaknesses and counterplay, still not stacked on teams and wont be after this.

Quit complaining and demanding nerfs, you're getting more than what you expect just looking at it on paper; it's proof you have no understanding of the class.

BTW Know why defensive passives, strong sustain skills, and defensive cooldowns are being nerfed across but not so much on mesmer? That's because Mesmer doesn't have as many doges or evades as you believe it has, and has no passive invuln/block traits. The only reason why EM is getting exhaust (which is ... kind of smiters boon level bad but w/e) is because they want to somehow put a cooldown or resource cost, beyond just an icd for stun breaking.

@Daishi.6027 said:The burst is being nerfed. MA is only going to be 20% when not pushing buttons. the unblockable mirrorblade is getting shaved by 14% all the might stacking across the class is being reduced (which is bigger than any of you realize), jaunt wont secure kills unless condi, can't doge so much with EM, and stability stacking is getting nerfed so you can lock it down more reliably. Class will still have a significant weakness to condi if taking inpiration, and will not do enough damage to down your bruisers who can avoid shatters if rolling inspiration, sure you just can't do it passively as much, but that isn't a problem you should learn to fight it anyways.

So less damage, less secure, less doge, less stab. Still has weaknesses and counterplay, still not stacked on teams and wont be after this.

Quit complaining and demanding nerfs, you're getting more than what you expect just looking at it on paper; it's proof you have no understanding of the class.

BTW Know why defensive passives, strong sustain skills, and defensive cooldowns are being nerfed across but not so much on mesmer? That's because Mesmer doesn't have as many doges or evades as you believe it has, and has no passive invuln/block traits. The only reason why EM is getting exhaust (which is ... kind of smiters boon level bad but w/e) is because they want to somehow put a cooldown or resource cost, beyond just an icd for stun breaking.

You are correct here ,yet , we have to witness that all (increase cd on disenchanter thats dissapointment,rather than nerf damage).Defender isnt defending anyone, just goes full ALLAHU AKBAR. Anet doesnt leave a choice in many trait lines to choose from . Not so often guests as phantasm chronos not taken into consideration.

You don't have to be a god at pvp to realize based off these notes that Mesmer is still going to be exceptionally overpowered. The balance patch will come, and for the most part things will be better with the sole exception somehow being Mesmer yet again. I dont understand how the balance team is failing to anticipate this. They really dropped the ball here and balance is still going to be whack this season solely because one class this time around. The worst part of all is the silence. There are many threads about this and we haven't heard a word. Are we really gonna have to wait months again?

@FtoPScrub.5476 said:You don't have to be a god at pvp to realize based off these notes that Mesmer is still going to be exceptionally overpowered. The balance patch will come, and for the most part things will be better with the sole exception somehow being Mesmer yet again. I dont understand how the balance team is failing to anticipate this. They really dropped the ball here and balance is still going to be whack this season solely because one class this time around. The worst part of all is the silence. There are many threads about this and we haven't heard a word. Are we really gonna have to wait months again?

Let me help you out.

This balance patch is a skill split patch which means they won’t be changing how traits and skills work. The unfortunate reality is that mesmer just had a large rework done to a core mechanic, phantasms and many traits which while I’m sure the dev team thought might have been fine have turned out to have unintended synergy.

Many of the problems cannot be fixed with a simple numbers tweak and require a proper re-evaluation of the skill/trait and changing. This is why mesmer is perceived as getting off easy.

Elusive mind shouldn’t be stunbreak on dodge but needs functionality change.Signet of ether probably doesn’t need to refresh phantasm cool downs now they aren’t utter garbage but needs a functionality change.Phantasms and damage in general needs a more unified holistic approach which needs a lot of time and effort, well outside the scope of the patch.

To clarify the last part, mesmer can see a 100% damage increase to phantasms by selecting 1 trait. Phantasmal force not only buffs mesmer but also phantasms by a large amount. There are certain traits that are only a phantasm buff, some only a shatter buff, some only affect shatters and Mesmer (might boon/sigils/runes) but not phantasms. Being able to get a large damage boost to one thing while going entirely defensive is a problem.