Looking for non-zerker builds

Hey guys. I've played sporadically over the past few years and I see the zerker meta has not fallen out of favour at all. I am quite tired of every build/guide that I see using zerker gear even though the "main purpose" of the build isn't 110% DPS focused (i.e. condi build but uses pure zerker). Are there any builds that uses non-zerker gear that are ok? I'm currently running Knights gear (would love to run Captains but the market says no) on a Scrapper and Soldiers on Reaper. I'm also thinking of doing Rampagers for condi Renegade and Commanders for Chrono (since alacrity is now a boon) and many more! Am I going down a bad path of gimmicky builds? Will I get booted from fractals and dungeons?

PS. I would love to see some of the more gimmicky/non-metazerker builds that you guys run!

Depends entirely and what you want to do with it. Unless you’re running absolute top-tier Fractals or Raids there shouldn’t be an issue over build.

You can use the glass condi equivalent, viper. The reason glass gear is recommended is because there is no good reason to not run it in most pve. Healing is utterly useless outside of raids or high level fractals for a large number of reasons.

If you don't want to run glass just add whatever gear you want and know that you're likely wasting stats. The game is balanced around dodges and rezzes and it just doesn't work as a diablo style stat-based game. I personally wouldn't want to play serious group content with someone who didn't have a firm grasp of why non glass gear is largely useless, but as long as you are open about it you can easily find players who either don't care or don't know why it's bad. For low end stuff like dungeons no one really cares.

Boon duration (concentration) is the one stat i can think of you could get some legit use out of.

Edit: even though the rampager's you mention is full glass, for most condi builds it does less damage than even non glass. You'd have to do some math to figure out if there are any builds it would be optimal in assuming vipers or sinister is too much work/expensive for you.

Well, if you dont want zerker you can go viper dps. If you dont want glass cannon you can try ekther healer druid or commander/harrier/minstrel chrono.

I recall the Dulfy Mesmer guide recommending Assassin over Zerker, although with some debate about its validity. (A theorycraft thing about how Power and Precision interact with illusions and phantasms.)

A build that I wish I kept a gear set for that's just for fun on open world is Power Valkyrie Reaper. Power, Vitality, Ferocity. You can reach 100% crit with a Reaper trait and a Soul Reaping trait, so it's just GS/Something ranged that also has good LF gen, Staff, prolly; and just lul around being unkillable.

I miss Reaper.... Why do I not just say "Screw it" and play it more? Go out and make a full Valk set for teh lulz?

@"TarkaTarquol.4856" said:I miss Reaper.... Why do I not just say "Screw it" and play it more? Go out and make a full Valk set for teh lulz?

Do it, you know you want to!

I miss Reaper.... Why do I not just say "Screw it" and play it more? Go out and make a full Valk set for teh lulz?

Yeah reaper is quite fun. I play an necro main since i started with GW2. Do i have the best dps or support? No, but for myself i have the most fun on playing the necro compared to all the other professions. So i'll keep playing necro till the end of time ^^ So do it for the fun!

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

@"TarkaTarquol.4856" said:I miss Reaper.... Why do I not just say "Screw it" and play it more? Go out and make a full Valk set for teh lulz?

Well, it seems the game wants me to! It just dropped me an Assaulter's Sparkling Vanquisher (I.E. Greatsword) an hour ago. Free Valkyrie GS... Yea. Okay game. I'll concede. :3Side note: I hate auto-emoji...

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:I recall the Dulfy Mesmer guide recommending Assassin over Zerker, although with some debate about its validity. (A theorycraft thing about how Power and Precision interact with illusions and phantasms.)

Well, the reasoning is that some damage from mesmer (reflects and maybe also phantasms i think) come with base damage that is nit increded by your power but is afected by your crit

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:I recall the Dulfy Mesmer guide recommending Assassin over Zerker, although with some debate about its validity. (A theorycraft thing about how Power and Precision interact with illusions and phantasms.)

OK, that makes sense. Thanks.

@TarkaTarquol.4856 said:It just dropped me an Assaulter's Sparkling Vanquisher (I.E. Greatsword) an hour ago.

Just looked that up in the wiki. Sweet. Congratulations.

I do several non-zerker builds, mainly for extra survival at the cost of damage, but trying to maintain around 40% crit when raw damage is involved, but I think for the most part my mirage is a blend of rampager's and carrion, simply because the crit isn't entirely needed, but the condition damage is, and I have decent sources of +% condi duration that putting in Expertise is only for the min/max factor.

That being said, there's no absolute must that you need to run all Berserker's or all certain-stat unless you're going into t4 fractals and raids. Use what allows you to survive it all -- because dead people do no damage.

@altermaven.7385 said:Because dead people do no damage.

Which of course works the other way around: dead mobs don’t hit you back. Death is the ultimate form of CC. :bleep_bloop:

Which is why we have a glass cannon PvE meta.

alot of good thoughts here, I'll probably go about having a meta build on at least one of my characters and meme on the rest

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@altermaven.7385 said:Because dead people do no damage.

That is true, but the only time you really need glass cannons and structured support is late Fractals and raids, anyway.. But before you can become a glass cannon, one must become a master of their class. At this rate, I might not finish college.

@altermaven.7385 said:I do several non-zerker builds, mainly for extra survival at the cost of damage, but trying to maintain around 40% crit when raw damage is involved, but I think for the most part my mirage is a blend of rampager's and carrion, simply because the crit isn't entirely needed, but the condition damage is, and I have decent sources of +% condi duration that putting in Expertise is only for the min/max factor.

That being said, there's no absolute must that you need to run all Berserker's or all certain-stat unless you're going into t4 fractals and raids. Use what allows you to survive it all -- because dead people do no damage.

Technically true, but misleading. Dead people deal no damage. The problem is that tanky builds don't deal just slightly less damage - they deal a LOT less damage! I did a bit of open world testing in an attempt to quantify this comparing Dire to Viper.

My observations: The toughness on Dire made a noticeable difference in tankiness. However, I didn't feel the extra vitality was particularly useful. Since I don't have any trouble surviving in full Viper with this class, using Dire didn't feel particularly impactful defensively, overall. On the other hand, my damage output fell in the 50-66% range (compared to Viper).

Now consider what that means in group play. If I cut my damage output in half and only gain some extra protection for myself in the process, am I helping or hurting my group? Yes, I might stay alive longer, but I would literally have to stay alive twice as long to break even! Meanwhile, those enemies that could be dead and dealing no damage themselves instead remain a threat for twice as long!

That's why the DPS meta is a thing. With no ability to protect other players with tanky stats (no taunts, no usable threat mechanics - no proper tanking!), using tanky stats is essentially a selfish act. You sacrifice group survivability for personal survivability.

@"Oglaf.1074" said:Death is the ultimate form of CC. :bleep_bloop:

In SWTOR, death is the ultimate interrupt. A mob that is killed while it is casting or channelling(1) will briefly flash "Interrupted" on its cast bar.

(1) A fussy technical distinction: a "channelled" ability (SWTORese for "skill") deals damage during the channel time. A "cast" ability takes time to execute then deals damage in a single tick at the end.

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@altermaven.7385 said:I do several non-zerker builds, mainly for extra survival at the cost of damage, but trying to maintain around 40% crit when raw damage is involved, but I think for the most part my mirage is a blend of rampager's and carrion, simply because the crit isn't entirely needed, but the condition damage is, and I have decent sources of +% condi duration that putting in Expertise is only for the min/max factor.

That being said, there's no absolute

must

that you need to run all Berserker's or all certain-stat unless you're going into t4 fractals and raids. Use what allows you to survive it all -- because dead people do no damage.

I was not really cheering for safety over DPS, but if you know how to play your class and you know what you deal with in your content, you can sacrifice some of that solidness in favor of more DPS. All it really boils down to, should you decide to go glass cannon, is to avoid cockiness at all times and play your cards right. The moment you feel bulletproof is the moment you'll be dead.

So if you know how to play your class and your skills, then by all means stack up on the DPS. But you also have to know not just what you're working with, but who! If you're stuck with pugs 4/7ths of the time like me, chances are you're pretty much glass at that rate. Not saying you shouldn't go glass cannon. I'm just saying be aware with whom you're going with. :P