Use Barrier to address "Channeled Block" skills?

Player A presses a button to block all attacks for a fixed duration.At this point, it typically doesn't matter what Player B does:

• Continue spamming a damage rotation?
• Stop and spam autos?
• Break off all attacks and just have a stare down?
• By some random coincidence, use an "unblockable" skill? Because those are so common and well-distributed among the classes (especially if such an effect is often more or less strapped to random utilities or thrown in as an afterthought to a weapon skill; let's not consider how most skills that actually manage to break a channeled block are typically on longer cooldowns than the block itself)? And even so, does it really matter in the long run to get in one stray attack in the midst of a 2-3 second blocking period (especially if that attack doesn't necessarily break the block channel)?

So here's an example proposal to address the boring, flow-killing channeled blocks which plague a lot of this game's brainless meta sets:

[shield Stance] (CURRENT)Activation: 3s / Recharge: 25s

• Block attacks.
• Duration: 3s

This form involves no investment, timing or positioning from its user. It's an immediate result with an effect that is only conditionally countered.

[shield Stance] (PROPOSED)Activation: 3s / Recharge: 25sAt every interval, grant a barrier to yourself and adjacent allies. Grant a stronger barrier if you are in combat.

• Number of allies: 5
• Out of combat Barrier: 325 (0.25)
• In combat Barrier: 880 (0.25)
• Interval: 1s
• Duration: 3s
• Radius: 150Grants an initial barrier upon activation at the end of each second of its duration (4 pulses total if the channel is fully resolved).

This form incorporates potential positioning opportunities (since the player can still take damage but now also has the opportunity to shield allies). It is also susceptible to CC, which is a much more universally available mechanic within the game (the hidden problem here is that CC is far, far, far too easy to apply--especially from long range; if CC were addressed, this is all around a much healthier version of this sort of mechanic with relation to PvP gameplay). Moreover, considering this is a Warrior, the Warrior is still constantly, passively regenerating healthy anyway (despite the fact that such a mechanic is pretty unhealthy for engaging gameplay; no Warrior should complain about getting a potential 3.2k barrier--baseline as well; could be more with healing power investment--every 20-25s). Despite a lower effectiveness for balance reasons, it could even be used as a lead-in skill to a fight to give allies a small berth for engagement. Finally, considering that barrier scales with Healing Power, a Warrior would have the option of going deeper into that stat in order to provide even more support.

All in all, changing channeled blocks into interval-based Barrier channels would introduce a much healthier mechanic into the game than the current stall-walls which permeate a lot of builds that have the option of straight preventing incoming damage and effects without really any regard for positioning or timing. Essentially, barrier application instead of full immunity provides a lot more counterplay without exactly removing the original desired effect (negating incoming damage). Full blocks are fine, just not within the context of channeled durations. Things like [Arcane Shield] or [shield of Wrath] are far more acceptable versions of a block mechanic in how their block coverage can be exhausted within the timeframe of its maximum duration (so pouring on the pressure is a viable counterplay to them rather than just stopping everything and auto-attacking for X seconds).

Channeled blocks are fine -- they are a weak form of invuln where both the user and enemy can do relatively little while they are in use. They're a great way to alter the flow of combat and wait out cooldowns while still having some counterability in the form of unblockable attacks. If you don't know what those unblockable attacks are, you should find them for your class and figure out how they work, because nothing is more satisfying than a Prime Light Beam to a warrior using their shield, or basilisk venom to a chrono. :)

@Vagrant.7206 said:Channeled blocks are fine -- they are a weak form of invuln where both the user and enemy can do relatively little while they are in use. They're a great way to alter the flow of combat and wait out cooldowns while still having some counterability in the form of unblockable attacks. If you don't know what those unblockable attacks are, you should find them for your class and figure out how they work, because nothing is more satisfying than a Prime Light Beam to a warrior using their shield, or basilisk venom to a chrono. :)

Just because I am literate doesn't mean anet appropriately distributed counterplay options to channeled blocks across GW2's excessive number of classes and sub-specs. Effortlessly stalling combat while waiting on more cooldowns which continue to effortlessly stall combat does not make for a fun build to play or play against. Channeled blocks are definitely one of the more anti-fun abilities in GW2 because of how brainless they are to use, how much impact they have despite involving zero risk to a user, and how only a select few classes in the game don't have to cripple themselves with some sub-par skill choice just so that they can potentially interrupt a channeled block.

There’s nothing wrong with a channeled block in itself, but the duration should not exceed 2s. Then if the block is short you put more emphasis on timing it to actually block an incoming attack.

Also what you proposed is gutting the skill, compared to current power level of everything else. Especially considering barrier is worse than healing, its a subpar version of a 3.5k heal over 3sec in a radius that is essentially melee. If you think that is going to even outheal just auto attacks of any spec today you’re wrong.

@"BeLZedaR.4790" said:There’s nothing wrong with a channeled block in itself, but the duration should not exceed 2s. Then if the block is short you put more emphasis on timing it to actually block an incoming attack.

There is no sense of timing when everything in the game manages to deal thousands of damage per second. PvP is basically just PvE-lite: everyone passively plays around their risk-insulating skills like stealths and invulns before they make a move with a PvE-tier DPS rotation. Within this paradigm, people don't so much as time a channeled block more than they just use it brainlessly within the scope of an anti-damage rotation. Lowering a channeled block from 3s to 2s wouldn't change any of that.

Also what you proposed is gutting the skill, compared to current power level of everything else. Especially considering barrier is worse than healing, its a subpar version of a 3.5k heal over 3sec in a radius that is essentially melee. If you think that is going to even outheal just auto attacks of any spec today you’re wrong.

Sounds like it's just too easy to mash damage then. I'm aware that autos deal thousands of damage, but that doesn't mean that such a thing is healthy for a game given the circumstances of how easy it is to spam autos. I never said that the rest of the game was fine; I said that a pulsing barrier would be a much healthier design paradigm than "haha watch me stand here for X seconds before I start pressing the rest of my buttons that also perfectly negate incoming damage for fixed periods of time."

And yeah, the radius means that a player's timing and positioning would be relevant to the skill's usage. I know that such a thing is pretty foreign to GW2, but just imagine.

It would be interesting if some channeled blocks (mostly only the long ones) were updated in such a way that every attack blocked reduced the channeled duration by 1/8 or 1/4 second, down to a set minimum length (say 1/2 of the default channel time). The set minimum channel time would keep the blocks from being destroyed immediately in a team fight.

I'm not really for this or against it, I just think it would be interesting if it was implemented.

Well. I don’t think this will be a good idea. This is a straight up demolishing nerf to blocking skills. I don’t think they’d be useful if this ever gets implemented.

Imagine timing a Shield Stance so good that you block a 10K burst but after this, you eat 8K of it.

Even if the numbers get higher, this is a big nerf.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Imagine timing a Shield Stance so good that you block a 10K burst but after this, you eat 8K of it.

So like how necro shroud works?

Sorry I couldn't resist saying it.

@"Swagg.9236" said:

• By some random coincidence, use an "unblockable" skill? Because those are so common and well-distributed among the classes (especially if such an effect is often more or less strapped to random utilities or thrown in as an afterthought to a weapon skill;

challenging that because why the hell not

The skills are well distributed, with many of them causing Hard or soft CC.

let's not consider how most skills that actually manage to break a channeled block are typically on longer cooldowns than the block itself)? And even so, does it really matter in the long run to get in one stray attack in the midst of a 2-3 second blocking period (especially if that attack doesn't necessarily break the block channel)?

Point taken here.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Well. I don’t think this will be a good idea. This is a straight up demolishing nerf to blocking skills. I don’t think they’d be useful if this ever gets implemented.

Imagine timing a Shield Stance so good that you block a 10K burst but after this, you eat 8K of it.

Even if the numbers get higher, this is a big nerf.

You know, in most games that feature a block mechanic, people are punished for block turtling too hard. Whether it be via draining stamina, HP or both, blocking an attack typically has some kind of a consequence. Those that don't are considered anti-fun or cheesy (like rapier turtling in Dark Souls 3, just for an example). However, GW2 has no real consequence for standing still and taking all attacks throughout a full block channel. It's super braindead.

As for 10k bursts, it's not hard to time anything in GW2 given how predictable most playstyles are, and 10k bursts are ludicrously common considering the base HP pools of players. The latter is an outright issue, but at least the former can be addressed with channeled investments and positioning-based abilities like what this thread advocates.

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Swagg.9236" said:

• By some random coincidence, use an "unblockable" skill? Because those are so common and well-distributed among the classes (especially if such an effect is often more or less strapped to random utilities or thrown in as an afterthought to a weapon skill;

Let's see how many of these will actually interrupt a channeled block (because the vast majority of them are just one-off hits that probably won't phase anybody, especially at the outset of a fight when people are most likely to start dumping their channeled blocks):

• Static Field

• Unsteady Ground

• Static Shield

• Line of Warding

• Ring of Warding

• Spectral WallWard lines are mostly useless because they require a player to walk into them. Despite the fact that this is relatively easy to set up, most people will use a channeled block as a lead-in to the rest of a defensive/reactive rotation, so movement/positioning (especially if they're on a point already) is not a big factor. No point to a ward wall if the guy using the channeled block is just going to stand still for its entire duration.

• Wail of Doom

• GalePretty niche picks. Necro warhorn isn't a common choice for good reasons, and Gale implies you're taking Ele (which is pretty sub-par in higher tiers).

• Call of the Wild

• Signet of MightNot only does this require a Ranger to take warhorn, but pet commands are even reliable due to how bad Anet's AI is and also how bad the queue system is for pet commands. Warrior might be able to spam autos to stop a channeled block because that class is so power-creeped, but ultimately nobody is going to take Signet of Might over any other meta option right now.

• Sanctuary

• Slick Shoes

• Throw Mine

• Spike Trap

• Magnet

• Mud SlideThis skills do not exist within PvP because they do not fit into the passive/tanky/burst meta.

• Pull (Guardian GS 5)Requires that the first skill in the chain hit, and that skill isn't unblockable.

• Full CounterRequires you to be hit, and the guy is blocking.

• Choking GasSince Shortbow 2 and 5 spam is meta, so it's only commonplace in the meta by association. Thief shortbow could have nothing but the 5 skill on it, and people would still take the weapon. However, Choking Gas itself takes too long to build up poison if a player opens up with a channeled block, so it's not really a reliable means of interrupting it.

• Basilisk Venom

• Prime Light Beam

These are the only two, consistently functional options for anyone who wants to interrupt a channeled block. Every other option is a direct downgrade to a meta build. GW2 is not a game based around everyone playing off of universal engine mechanics to see who is the better player: it's all just flavor-based rock-paper-scissors. This is why Holosmith and Thief are the only ones who serve as regular threats to channeled blocks. The biggest joke on top of all of this is that even when looking at all of those options up above, we have a huge imbalance of unblockable interrupts among the classes and some classes aren't even there at all.

All other damage that eeks through is something that can be dealt with when the channeled block ends.

@Swagg.9236 said:You know, in most games that feature a block mechanic, people are punished for block turtling too hard. Whether it be via draining stamina, HP or both, blocking an attack typically has some kind of a consequence.

That is the unique thing about gw2 and why it always has extreme imbalances. It doesn't really have consequences to ones actions. Which is why there is always complaints about spam. There are only two things that come to mind that force players to make decisions and that have consequences: Stun break and Condi removal. That is about it I think.

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

• By some random coincidence, use an "unblockable" skill? Because those are so common and well-distributed among the classes (especially if such an effect is often more or less strapped to random utilities or thrown in as an afterthought to a weapon skill;

• Static Field

• Unsteady Ground

• Static Shield

• Line of Warding

• Ring of Warding

• Spectral WallWard lines are mostly useless because they require a player to walk into them. Despite the fact that this is relatively easy to set up, most people will use a channeled block as a lead-in to the rest of a defensive/reactive rotation, so movement/positioning (especially if they're on a point already) is not a big factor. No point to a ward wall if the guy using the channeled block is just going to stand still for its entire duration.

• Wail of Doom

• GalePretty niche picks. Necro warhorn isn't a common choice for good reasons, and Gale implies you're taking Ele (which is pretty sub-par in higher tiers).

• Call of the Wild

• Signet of MightNot only does this require a Ranger to take warhorn, but pet commands are even reliable due to how bad Anet's AI is and also how bad the queue system is for pet commands. Warrior might be able to spam autos to stop a channeled block because that class is so power-creeped, but ultimately nobody is going to take Signet of Might over any other meta option right now.

• Sanctuary

• Slick Shoes

• Throw Mine

• Spike Trap

• Magnet

• Mud SlideThis skills do not exist within PvP because they do not fit into the passive/tanky/burst meta.

• Pull (Guardian GS 5)Requires that the first skill in the chain hit, and that skill isn't unblockable.

• Full CounterRequires you to be hit, and the guy is blocking.

• Choking GasSince Shortbow 2 and 5 spam is meta, so it's only commonplace in the meta by association. Thief shortbow could have nothing but the 5 skill on it, and people would still take the weapon. However, Choking Gas itself takes too long to build up poison if a player opens up with a channeled block, so it's not really a reliable means of interrupting it.

• Basilisk Venom

• Prime Light Beam

You're forgetting several skills and means of control that are unblockable when appropriately traited or have other control effects (weakness, chill/cripple, blind, etc). Necro staff marks are completely unblockable when traited, for example, and include effects such as chill and weakness. Engineer glue bomb and glue shot are unblockable (although not meta, admittedly). Dragonhunter spear of justice is unblockable, as is its CC.

The only problem I have with channeled blocks is specifically chronomancer shield, which can last for a whopping 5-6 seconds when appropriately timed, followed by a potent CC. Other than chronomancer shield though, I think most channeled blocks are relatively fair and balanced.

Certain classes don't have access to as many unblockable attacks because they're strong in other areas (IE Mesmers).

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

• By some random coincidence, use an "unblockable" skill? Because those are so common and well-distributed among the classes (especially if such an effect is often more or less strapped to random utilities or thrown in as an afterthought to a weapon skill;

• Static Field

• Unsteady Ground

• Static Shield

• Line of Warding

• Ring of Warding

• Spectral WallWard lines are mostly useless because they require a player to walk into them. Despite the fact that this is relatively easy to set up, most people will use a channeled block as a lead-in to the rest of a defensive/reactive rotation, so movement/positioning (especially if they're on a point already) is not a big factor. No point to a ward wall if the guy using the channeled block is just going to stand still for its entire duration.

• Wail of Doom

• GalePretty niche picks. Necro warhorn isn't a common choice for good reasons, and Gale implies you're taking Ele (which is pretty sub-par in higher tiers).

• Call of the Wild

• Signet of MightNot only does this require a Ranger to take warhorn, but pet commands are even reliable due to how bad Anet's AI is and also how bad the queue system is for pet commands. Warrior might be able to spam autos to stop a channeled block because that class is so power-creeped, but ultimately nobody is going to take Signet of Might over any other meta option right now.

• Sanctuary

• Slick Shoes

• Throw Mine

• Spike Trap

• Magnet

• Mud SlideThis skills do not exist within PvP because they do not fit into the passive/tanky/burst meta.

• Pull (Guardian GS 5)Requires that the first skill in the chain hit, and that skill isn't unblockable.

• Full CounterRequires you to be hit, and the guy is blocking.

• Choking GasSince Shortbow 2 and 5 spam is meta, so it's only commonplace in the meta by association. Thief shortbow could have nothing but the 5 skill on it, and people would still take the weapon. However, Choking Gas itself takes too long to build up poison if a player opens up with a channeled block, so it's not really a reliable means of interrupting it.

• Basilisk Venom

• Prime Light Beam

6 second block from chrono shield 4? Lol ok