Bring PvP passive nerfs to WvW - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Bring PvP passive nerfs to WvW

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  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    Sooo...You are targeting the lowest common denominator for only some classes? This makes them brainless to play, I run zerk with no passives and hunt people in zergs, sure I die, but that is part of the risk and getting good at game play. Let people learn to use skills and not face roll just because something is off CD, let them learn to time dodging, let them learn positioning and player movements so they don't get trapped in a zerg bomb. Make people LEARN the game mode and not cater to people who just want to come in to k-train.

    You give some classes these passives, but not others as well, which means when someone who is even slightly skillful takes one of theses into small scale they are very hard to counter because of some passive trigger, no matter how well to time or set it up. You end up needing more than one player to burn though those passives. I will admit to playing these classes and builds and laughing quite hard at some people trying to kill me, but over all the lack of risk etc gets boring.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Kaiser.9873Kaiser.9873 Member ✭✭✭

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    to many aoe or just simply to much scourges? because its simply still OP as kitten?
    u dont need to nerf things directly on dmg. u could change skills also.

    like remove condi from scourge?
    or remove fact that they can cleanse debuffs or corrupt boons or w/e?

    see u can leave kitten as it by changing skills a little pushing the class into another direction without having to do much.

    I can't seem to remember the last time a Scourge hit me with a 7K lava font, or a 12K CoR. Hmmmm perhaps it was that 8K phase smash, or that 12K meteor shower. No, hmm.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kaiser.9873 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    to many aoe or just simply to much scourges? because its simply still OP as kitten?
    u dont need to nerf things directly on dmg. u could change skills also.

    like remove condi from scourge?
    or remove fact that they can cleanse debuffs or corrupt boons or w/e?

    see u can leave kitten as it by changing skills a little pushing the class into another direction without having to do much.

    I can't seem to remember the last time a Scourge hit me with a 7K lava font, or a 12K CoR. Hmmmm perhaps it was that 8K phase smash, or that 12K meteor shower. No, hmm.

    Get some armor rating and damage reduction.
    I play glass hammer rev and that's the kind of numbers I take.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Kaiser.9873 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    to many aoe or just simply to much scourges? because its simply still OP as kitten?
    u dont need to nerf things directly on dmg. u could change skills also.

    like remove condi from scourge?
    or remove fact that they can cleanse debuffs or corrupt boons or w/e?

    see u can leave kitten as it by changing skills a little pushing the class into another direction without having to do much.

    I can't seem to remember the last time a Scourge hit me with a 7K lava font, or a 12K CoR. Hmmmm perhaps it was that 8K phase smash, or that 12K meteor shower. No, hmm.

    Get some armor rating and damage reduction.
    I play glass hammer rev and that's the kind of numbers I take.

    You run a scourge that deals 12k CoRs and 12k meteor showers? That's awesome!

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    Less AoE's being flung around would be nice. :expressionless:

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Kaiser.9873Kaiser.9873 Member ✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Kaiser.9873 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    to many aoe or just simply to much scourges? because its simply still OP as kitten?
    u dont need to nerf things directly on dmg. u could change skills also.

    like remove condi from scourge?
    or remove fact that they can cleanse debuffs or corrupt boons or w/e?

    see u can leave kitten as it by changing skills a little pushing the class into another direction without having to do much.

    I can't seem to remember the last time a Scourge hit me with a 7K lava font, or a 12K CoR. Hmmmm perhaps it was that 8K phase smash, or that 12K meteor shower. No, hmm.

    Get some armor rating and damage reduction.
    I play glass hammer rev and that's the kind of numbers I take.

    Wonder if that's why I get hit so hard. Never thought playing zerker/marauder Hammer rev might hurt so bad.

  • Euryon.9248Euryon.9248 Member ✭✭✭

    Summary of thread: I want to one-shot warriors from stealth but I can't because of their passive Endure Pain, please remove, kthxbai.

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Euryon.9248 said:
    Summary of thread: I want to one-shot warriors from stealth but I can't because of their passive Endure Pain, please remove, kthxbai.

    Most are not actually one shots and require setup. DE has sound and visual tells, never been hit by one outside of being in an out numbered fight and being hit in the back. I have no passives and deal with these classes, it's really not hard.

    Side note, I myself have not spent any significant time on a stealthing class in years.

    Others I play with (many of who main warrior or SB) all agree it's in a very strong place, all of them also hate auto procs and agree with their removal. Add it to another skill or something, allow them to have two still if you like, just keep instant cast auto procing skills out of the game, this goes for DH traps, Stoneform etc etc.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Tiny Doom.4380Tiny Doom.4380 Member ✭✭✭

    It's always been my understanding that GW2 was intended as an inclusive MMO for casual players. Passive skills seem to be entirely in keeping with that ethos. High skill requirements do not.

  • aoe spam is the single biggest problem with gw2 imo. fix that, and the game might become skill oriented again (or finally)...

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2018

    just get rid of passives they are super lazy. Change all those traits. all those auto stunbreaks make me sick.

    Ferguson's Crossing Server Leader

    WVW LEADER

    VR

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'll advocate for ALL passives like some of them mobile "games" I see, where you just watch and give your toon money when it needs stuff. I mean, learning is hard and practice takes too long. Let's lower the bar a bit further and have true equality!

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Prysin.8542 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think you may have the ability to fix that too.

    Like how? Make it so the game is entirely single-target spells in pvp/wvw? Wouldn't fix anything but make the game feel extremely weird, with big spells hitting one target then doing exactly nothing despite still hitting somebody else as an AoE. The only issue comes from concentrating spells on one spot and that would not even be fixed with that. Death zones would still exist, they'd just be a lot spikier and perhaps just instantly kill a few people instead of spreading out.

    Not gonna disagree that some spells could perhaps cleave only on 3 targets instead of the standard 5 though. Exceptions to the rule can always exist, like Elementalist Fire Staff 5 etc without throwing over the balance

    Bite me.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 If the reason you do not want to touch Passive Defenses in WvW is do to the over abundance and strength of AoEs and Ranged AoEs maybe you should look at nerfing/reducing the AoEs and Ranged AoEs.

  • CreedOfGod.9764CreedOfGod.9764 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2018

    Just change invulnerabilities to % damage reduction(endure pain/signet of stone) or % evade chance (engi elixir S/ thief instant reflexes). I'd say keep guardian elite skill as is since it's unique and you cannot attack while invuln.

    As for AoEs I don't really have any constructive advice other than to tone it down or make aiming them more meaningful

    Stay low. Move fast. Kill first. Die last.
    ~Ghost Ren~

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    tone down AoEs?

  • ScionKai.4907ScionKai.4907 Member ✭✭
    edited April 6, 2018

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    For Warrior, you could improve those traits by making them more active... Last Stand's Vigor on stances is good, maybe more duration or some other proc from the active skill. You could shorten CD's or something with this trait as well.

    For Defy Pain you could change the functionality of Endure Pain by adding some other feature to having it on your skill bar. Something with the duration or CD, or adding an additional boon to the skill when activated.

    There are ways to make those two traits very useful and require them to be used actively. Simply increasing the CD in WvW would make them useless compared to some of the other Grand Master traits out there... But you could play give and take. Change the way the traits work, eliminate the autoproc, but give them something to still make Last Stand worthy of being a Grandmaster and Defy Pain giving Warriors a chance in large combat with tons of area denial.

    The other option is look at the things outside of warrior which make those two traits so popular, and balance those when you nerf Warrior's traits. That is a house of cards approach though and could be a nightmare, so the first suggestion may be a better way to go.

    I'll take some nerfs to Warrior but please for the love of everything figure out how to fix Scourge and Mirage as well... It really feels like the people who designed these classes had no understanding of just what they were creating for PvP and WvW when they put them together, like at all.

  • Colly.4073Colly.4073 Member ✭✭✭

    What has pvp got to do with wvw?

    /thread

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    IMHO there is nothing wrong with a lot of AoEs as long as those are visually easy to spot, to have a delay to apply the effect (no instant damage/effect, if it needs to pulse to apply the effect that would give the target a chance to evade) and those are no pulsing mobile PbAoE damaging skills.

    Big AoEs should have a channel to cast (like meteor shower) or apply the full effect.

    Ranged AoEs should have the downside of being "slow" as a downside to affect multiple targets from a safe distance, otherwise they are just an upgrade over single target skills.

  • Prysin.8542Prysin.8542 Member ✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Prysin.8542 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think you may have the ability to fix that too.

    Like how? Make it so the game is entirely single-target spells in pvp/wvw? Wouldn't fix anything but make the game feel extremely weird, with big spells hitting one target then doing exactly nothing despite still hitting somebody else as an AoE. The only issue comes from concentrating spells on one spot and that would not even be fixed with that. Death zones would still exist, they'd just be a lot spikier and perhaps just instantly kill a few people instead of spreading out.

    Not gonna disagree that some spells could perhaps cleave only on 3 targets instead of the standard 5 though. Exceptions to the rule can always exist, like Elementalist Fire Staff 5 etc without throwing over the balance

    So many ways to do reduce AOE spam.
    Increase cooldown
    Increase cast time
    reduce size
    reduce targets hit
    reduce damage

    For siege you could simply reduce hit cap from 50 to 30,and BOOM, you have made AOE siege spam less lethal

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2018

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    I echo what many other players are saying, maybe the problem is that AoE damage is getting too common and that should be a target for toning down.

    I have no problem with a powerful effect so long as it is balanced by having a long cast or cool down or some other significant down side, the problem is cool downs have been getting shorter and shorter across the board, it’s time they went up, that includes defensive cool downs too as well as some of the excessive support on firebrands and their tomes.

    Also any chance on addressing ranged damage doing so much damage? A ranger can hit you for 4500 damage at over 1500 range, don’t you think this is a bit high for an auto attack at a range many would find it hard to escape? Likewise hammer bolt and puncture shot (to a lesser extent) also do far too much damage for an auto attack at range.

    Edit: not entirely on topic but I would much prefer WvW and PvP balance to be the same, it makes your job easier as you only have 1 skill split and it makes it easier for your players as they get more consistency in the behaviour of skills and traits. Generally if something is too strong in PvP it’s usually too strong in WvW too and vice versa or a change for one mode is usually not going to adversely affect its performance in the other mode.

  • Vaga.5174Vaga.5174 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2018

    Passives in WvW's current state are almost a necessary evil (for some classes) to survive long enough to do anything.

    Damage reduction/application need to be addressed first. Once this has been addressed Passives should be addressed. The reason passive nerfs worked so well in PvP is because it is small scale fighting.

    WvW is potentially >xx more damage applicators, which makes surviving that much more difficult.

    It really depends on what type of WvW'er you are. If you are a player that wants small scale fights, you are more likely to want to remove passives. If you are a roamer, you are going to want to keep them as you will just get rolled over by people in WvW's current form. If you are in Zergs, well, you would probably agree that damage and damage applicators need to be addressed before changing the passives.

  • Hanth.2978Hanth.2978 Member ✭✭

    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

  • Hanth.2978Hanth.2978 Member ✭✭
    edited April 6, 2018

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2018

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    Well.. of course they drop when focused.
    Every class does.
    Every class should, especially ones dropping 5 figure attacks O.o

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    Well.. of course they drop when focused.
    Every class does.
    Every class should, especially ones dropping 5 figure attacks O.o

    Quoted 4 truth

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    But I forgot an apostrophe. My shame is immortalized -_-

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Hanth.2978Hanth.2978 Member ✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    Well.. of course they drop when focused.
    Every class does.
    Every class should, especially ones dropping 5 figure attacks O.o

    Every class should and does when countered properly. Glad we agree on that.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    Well.. of course they drop when focused.
    Every class does.
    Every class should, especially ones dropping 5 figure attacks O.o

    Amen brother oil die-er!!

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    I echo what many other players are saying, maybe the problem is that AoE damage is getting too common and that should be a target for toning down.

    I have no problem with a powerful effect so long as it is balanced by having a long cast or cool down or some other significant down side, the problem is cool downs have been getting shorter and shorter across the board, it’s time they went up, that includes defensive cool downs too as well as some of the excessive support on firebrands and their tomes.

    Also any chance on addressing ranged damage doing so much damage? A ranger can hit you for 4500 damage at over 1500 range, don’t you think this is a bit high for an auto attack at a range many would find it hard to escape? Likewise hammer bolt and puncture shot (to a lesser extent) also do far too much damage for an auto attack at range.

    Edit: not entirely on topic but I would much prefer WvW and PvP balance to be the same, it makes your job easier as you only have 1 skill split and it makes it easier for your players as they get more consistency in the behaviour of skills and traits. Generally if something is too strong in PvP it’s usually too strong in WvW too and vice versa or a change for one mode is usually not going to adversely affect its performance in the other mode.

    Funny. I remember scourge f1-f5 cooldowns getting higher after Last balance patch. Yet People whine about scourge a lot even after that nerf. AoE in 50 vs 50 is expected to be highly used, thats logical

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

    More survivability? The warrior is the only class that can take a full enemy blob head-on to cast winds, and get back to its own zerg.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    I echo what many other players are saying, maybe the problem is that AoE damage is getting too common and that should be a target for toning down.

    I have no problem with a powerful effect so long as it is balanced by having a long cast or cool down or some other significant down side, the problem is cool downs have been getting shorter and shorter across the board, it’s time they went up, that includes defensive cool downs too as well as some of the excessive support on firebrands and their tomes.

    Also any chance on addressing ranged damage doing so much damage? A ranger can hit you for 4500 damage at over 1500 range, don’t you think this is a bit high for an auto attack at a range many would find it hard to escape? Likewise hammer bolt and puncture shot (to a lesser extent) also do far too much damage for an auto attack at range.

    Edit: not entirely on topic but I would much prefer WvW and PvP balance to be the same, it makes your job easier as you only have 1 skill split and it makes it easier for your players as they get more consistency in the behaviour of skills and traits. Generally if something is too strong in PvP it’s usually too strong in WvW too and vice versa or a change for one mode is usually not going to adversely affect its performance in the other mode.

    Funny. I remember scourge f1-f5 cooldowns getting higher after Last balance patch. Yet People whine about scourge a lot even after that nerf. AoE in 50 vs 50 is expected to be highly used, thats logical

    There’s a difference between highly used and spammed. AoE was always highly used in 50v50 yet it wasn’t spammed before HoT because the really strong AoE skills had long cool downs, long casts or both. Scourge has neither really on its AoE anymore, it can keep rolling dangerous AoE back to back.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    I echo what many other players are saying, maybe the problem is that AoE damage is getting too common and that should be a target for toning down.

    I have no problem with a powerful effect so long as it is balanced by having a long cast or cool down or some other significant down side, the problem is cool downs have been getting shorter and shorter across the board, it’s time they went up, that includes defensive cool downs too as well as some of the excessive support on firebrands and their tomes.

    Also any chance on addressing ranged damage doing so much damage? A ranger can hit you for 4500 damage at over 1500 range, don’t you think this is a bit high for an auto attack at a range many would find it hard to escape? Likewise hammer bolt and puncture shot (to a lesser extent) also do far too much damage for an auto attack at range.

    Edit: not entirely on topic but I would much prefer WvW and PvP balance to be the same, it makes your job easier as you only have 1 skill split and it makes it easier for your players as they get more consistency in the behaviour of skills and traits. Generally if something is too strong in PvP it’s usually too strong in WvW too and vice versa or a change for one mode is usually not going to adversely affect its performance in the other mode.

    Funny. I remember scourge f1-f5 cooldowns getting higher after Last balance patch. Yet People whine about scourge a lot even after that nerf. AoE in 50 vs 50 is expected to be highly used, thats logical

    There’s a difference between highly used and spammed. AoE was always highly used in 50v50 yet it wasn’t spammed before HoT because the really strong AoE skills had long cool downs, long casts or both. Scourge has neither really on its AoE anymore, it can keep rolling dangerous AoE back to back.

    Boonspamming AoE is the main problem. This is why such heavy boon AoE corruption exists.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    I echo what many other players are saying, maybe the problem is that AoE damage is getting too common and that should be a target for toning down.

    I have no problem with a powerful effect so long as it is balanced by having a long cast or cool down or some other significant down side, the problem is cool downs have been getting shorter and shorter across the board, it’s time they went up, that includes defensive cool downs too as well as some of the excessive support on firebrands and their tomes.

    Also any chance on addressing ranged damage doing so much damage? A ranger can hit you for 4500 damage at over 1500 range, don’t you think this is a bit high for an auto attack at a range many would find it hard to escape? Likewise hammer bolt and puncture shot (to a lesser extent) also do far too much damage for an auto attack at range.

    Edit: not entirely on topic but I would much prefer WvW and PvP balance to be the same, it makes your job easier as you only have 1 skill split and it makes it easier for your players as they get more consistency in the behaviour of skills and traits. Generally if something is too strong in PvP it’s usually too strong in WvW too and vice versa or a change for one mode is usually not going to adversely affect its performance in the other mode.

    Funny. I remember scourge f1-f5 cooldowns getting higher after Last balance patch. Yet People whine about scourge a lot even after that nerf. AoE in 50 vs 50 is expected to be highly used, thats logical

    There’s a difference between highly used and spammed. AoE was always highly used in 50v50 yet it wasn’t spammed before HoT because the really strong AoE skills had long cool downs, long casts or both. Scourge has neither really on its AoE anymore, it can keep rolling dangerous AoE back to back.

    Boonspamming AoE is the main problem. This is why such heavy boon AoE corruption exists.

    It’s a problem yes but boonspam isn’t stopping invulnerability skills being nerfed, there shear number of AoE at all times is, if that was cut back, the invulnerablity can be cut back then they can start addressing the boon spam that’s existed for 3 years. Something has to get toned down first though and ANet already said they’re reluctant to do invulns because of so much AoE damage so it’s best to start with AoEs.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2018

    Boonspam is unavoidable on some classes. Two choices were available, tone down boons or make the game into a giant clusterkitten of glowy red and yellow....

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2018

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    We considered the nerfs for passives in WvW. But in the end we were really concerned that the reduced defenses would make large group fights a lot less fun. There are just too many AOEs being flung around.

    I'd welcome more discussion though.

    That's a issue ive been complaining alot... game ended to be aoe spam everywhere (i have to pay mor atention to aoe that is not being rendered on my screen and pay alot of atention to combat log than visuals on the game itself, it is like some skills rings and effects get lost in some queue to render to players client)... and now u guys have scourge with no line of sight on some skills, that line of sight removal was to much, alot of classes have the same "obstructed" issue when even auto atacking players w/o nothing between them, and u guys have to actually "fix" scourge AOE stuff with a removal of the LoS.... no comments.
    Issue is balance overral, 1 class that shutdowns all melee builds, no wonder u guys cant tone down some passives :P.....
    Oh! and make block, absorv, Reflect diferent effects..... having unbockables countering all this is a bit dull to the gameplay as well, this is another thing that creates alot of power creep trough defenses while having unblockables ur forced into some blind spam or burn 2 dodges(in wich will be mostly useless and cant avoid other stuff), and look at new ranges elite trait unblockables uptime that is possible from 1500 range... counting with pet swap as well.
    TDLR; it is not the AOE spam alone that makes it harder to reduce the passives from some classes, it is a bit a bad QoL on skill validation and gameplay improvements.

    I think u guys are still missing to understand what have u done when adding scourge with this design into the game where aoe spam is king.... and increase CD dont do much since it is a class to get 15+ stacked together, only solo'ist scourge was nerfed(1 vs 1 situations)

  • Hanth.2978Hanth.2978 Member ✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

    More survivability? The warrior is the only class that can take a full enemy blob head-on to cast winds, and get back to its own zerg.

    As I said before warriors who get focused never make it to the zerg or die before they make it back.

  • Euryon.9248Euryon.9248 Member ✭✭✭

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

    More survivability? The warrior is the only class that can take a full enemy blob head-on to cast winds, and get back to its own zerg.

    As I said before warriors who get focused never make it to the zerg or die before they make it back.

    Completely untrue; this is what happens when a zerg focuses a warrior, this is what they see;

    0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, block, block, block, block, block, block, block, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,0,0

    Rinse and repeat. That should not be allowed to fly under any circumstance. There are many things that should be removed not only from the warrior, but this is one of them.

    Completely untrue. I almost always die if I get focused when trying to throw a wind. Without the passives you can take out the "almost".

    Tell you what, you can nerf the passives if you also take out stealth, scourge spam, the laughably OP mesmer builds, reduce rev hammer to 900 range, etc. Just gut every class in some way, then we can all be miserable.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Euryon.9248 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

    More survivability? The warrior is the only class that can take a full enemy blob head-on to cast winds, and get back to its own zerg.

    As I said before warriors who get focused never make it to the zerg or die before they make it back.

    Completely untrue; this is what happens when a zerg focuses a warrior, this is what they see;

    0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, block, block, block, block, block, block, block, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,0,0

    Rinse and repeat. That should not be allowed to fly under any circumstance. There are many things that should be removed not only from the warrior, but this is one of them.

    Completely untrue. I almost always die if I get focused when trying to throw a wind. Without the passives you can take out the "almost".

    Tell you what, you can nerf the passives if you also take out stealth, scourge spam, the laughably OP mesmer builds, reduce rev hammer to 900 range, etc. Just gut every class in some way, then we can all be miserable.

    Passives that auto proc and require NO skill from the player are not on the same level at all as those things you listed.

    I agree, Rev hammer is far worse in a Zerg.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Euryon.9248 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

    More survivability? The warrior is the only class that can take a full enemy blob head-on to cast winds, and get back to its own zerg.

    As I said before warriors who get focused never make it to the zerg or die before they make it back.

    Completely untrue; this is what happens when a zerg focuses a warrior, this is what they see;

    0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, block, block, block, block, block, block, block, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,0,0

    Rinse and repeat. That should not be allowed to fly under any circumstance. There are many things that should be removed not only from the warrior, but this is one of them.

    Completely untrue. I almost always die if I get focused when trying to throw a wind. Without the passives you can take out the "almost".

    Tell you what, you can nerf the passives if you also take out stealth, scourge spam, the laughably OP mesmer builds, reduce rev hammer to 900 range, etc. Just gut every class in some way, then we can all be miserable.

    Passives that auto proc and require NO skill from the player are not on the same level at all as those things you listed.

    I agree, Rev hammer is far worse in a Zerg.

    ... Which already received a nerf. And rev is one of the not really overused classes in wvw,as it is...

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Euryon.9248 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

    More survivability? The warrior is the only class that can take a full enemy blob head-on to cast winds, and get back to its own zerg.

    As I said before warriors who get focused never make it to the zerg or die before they make it back.

    Completely untrue; this is what happens when a zerg focuses a warrior, this is what they see;

    0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, block, block, block, block, block, block, block, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,0,0

    Rinse and repeat. That should not be allowed to fly under any circumstance. There are many things that should be removed not only from the warrior, but this is one of them.

    Completely untrue. I almost always die if I get focused when trying to throw a wind. Without the passives you can take out the "almost".

    Tell you what, you can nerf the passives if you also take out stealth, scourge spam, the laughably OP mesmer builds, reduce rev hammer to 900 range, etc. Just gut every class in some way, then we can all be miserable.

    Passives that auto proc and require NO skill from the player are not on the same level at all as those things you listed.

    I agree, Rev hammer is far worse in a Zerg.

    1. Already got nerfed
    2. Is revs only remotely viable role in a PvP/WvW setting anymore
    3. You can strafe and avoid CoR.
  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2018

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Euryon.9248 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

    More survivability? The warrior is the only class that can take a full enemy blob head-on to cast winds, and get back to its own zerg.

    As I said before warriors who get focused never make it to the zerg or die before they make it back.

    Completely untrue; this is what happens when a zerg focuses a warrior, this is what they see;

    0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, block, block, block, block, block, block, block, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,0,0

    Rinse and repeat. That should not be allowed to fly under any circumstance. There are many things that should be removed not only from the warrior, but this is one of them.

    Completely untrue. I almost always die if I get focused when trying to throw a wind. Without the passives you can take out the "almost".

    Tell you what, you can nerf the passives if you also take out stealth, scourge spam, the laughably OP mesmer builds, reduce rev hammer to 900 range, etc. Just gut every class in some way, then we can all be miserable.

    Passives that auto proc and require NO skill from the player are not on the same level at all as those things you listed.

    I agree, Rev hammer is far worse in a Zerg.

    1. Already got nerfed
    2. Is revs only remotely viable role in a PvP/WvW setting anymore
    3. You can strafe and avoid CoR.

    U cant straf and avoid it if u don't see it comming, notice CoR trough that aoe spam flashes and rings :P on the ground is like u need some private detective to found them :P
    For some reason i dropped guardian to a full zerker rev lol...

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Euryon.9248 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

    More survivability? The warrior is the only class that can take a full enemy blob head-on to cast winds, and get back to its own zerg.

    As I said before warriors who get focused never make it to the zerg or die before they make it back.

    Completely untrue; this is what happens when a zerg focuses a warrior, this is what they see;

    0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, block, block, block, block, block, block, block, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,0,0

    Rinse and repeat. That should not be allowed to fly under any circumstance. There are many things that should be removed not only from the warrior, but this is one of them.

    Completely untrue. I almost always die if I get focused when trying to throw a wind. Without the passives you can take out the "almost".

    Tell you what, you can nerf the passives if you also take out stealth, scourge spam, the laughably OP mesmer builds, reduce rev hammer to 900 range, etc. Just gut every class in some way, then we can all be miserable.

    Passives that auto proc and require NO skill from the player are not on the same level at all as those things you listed.

    I agree, Rev hammer is far worse in a Zerg.

    1. Already got nerfed
    2. Is revs only remotely viable role in a PvP/WvW setting anymore
    3. You can strafe and avoid CoR.

    It’s this kind of mentality that made the game the unfun AoE spamfiesta it is today. High damage (8-15k damage) skills shouldn’t be on a 4s cool down.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Euryon.9248 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

    More survivability? The warrior is the only class that can take a full enemy blob head-on to cast winds, and get back to its own zerg.

    As I said before warriors who get focused never make it to the zerg or die before they make it back.

    Completely untrue; this is what happens when a zerg focuses a warrior, this is what they see;

    0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, block, block, block, block, block, block, block, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,0,0

    Rinse and repeat. That should not be allowed to fly under any circumstance. There are many things that should be removed not only from the warrior, but this is one of them.

    Completely untrue. I almost always die if I get focused when trying to throw a wind. Without the passives you can take out the "almost".

    Tell you what, you can nerf the passives if you also take out stealth, scourge spam, the laughably OP mesmer builds, reduce rev hammer to 900 range, etc. Just gut every class in some way, then we can all be miserable.

    Passives that auto proc and require NO skill from the player are not on the same level at all as those things you listed.

    I agree, Rev hammer is far worse in a Zerg.

    1. Already got nerfed
    2. Is revs only remotely viable role in a PvP/WvW setting anymore
    3. You can strafe and avoid CoR.

    It’s this kind of mentality that made the game the unfun AoE spamfiesta it is today. High damage (8-15k damage) skills shouldn’t be on a 4s cool down.

    Maybe if we didn't have 10 billion passives proccing 20x every fight we wouldn't need such crazy high damage.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Euryon.9248 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Hanth.2978 said:
    Passive' s are fine anet please don't listen to the people who scream for nerfs constantly and are never happy. PvP and WvW should never ever have identical balance changes.

    Warrior literally has 2x as much uptime of "don't hit me" stances in WvW than they do in PvP. Not bring identical is one thing, but this is too big of a split.

    I don't get how anyone even defends passives, getting rewarded for being hit too much or CC'd is dumb. I saw a great suggestion about passives traits adding 1 ammo to the existing utility skill instead of auto proccing, but then there's still the problem of having to run said utility (like Endure Pain) to get the benefit of the 2nd ammo.

    Speaking about warrior since you brought it up, warrior needs more survivability in wvw over pvp and if you wvw and frontline then you understand why. Even good warriors get dropped by coordinated groups in wvw if they get properly focused. Passives won't save you.

    I don't mind passives going away if that's what anet wants to do. Just make sure and drop damage in return to help balance.

    More survivability? The warrior is the only class that can take a full enemy blob head-on to cast winds, and get back to its own zerg.

    As I said before warriors who get focused never make it to the zerg or die before they make it back.

    Completely untrue; this is what happens when a zerg focuses a warrior, this is what they see;

    0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, immune, block, block, block, block, block, block, block, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,0,0

    Rinse and repeat. That should not be allowed to fly under any circumstance. There are many things that should be removed not only from the warrior, but this is one of them.

    Completely untrue. I almost always die if I get focused when trying to throw a wind. Without the passives you can take out the "almost".

    Tell you what, you can nerf the passives if you also take out stealth, scourge spam, the laughably OP mesmer builds, reduce rev hammer to 900 range, etc. Just gut every class in some way, then we can all be miserable.

    Passives that auto proc and require NO skill from the player are not on the same level at all as those things you listed.

    I agree, Rev hammer is far worse in a Zerg.

    1. Already got nerfed
    2. Is revs only remotely viable role in a PvP/WvW setting anymore
    3. You can strafe and avoid CoR.

    It’s this kind of mentality that made the game the unfun AoE spamfiesta it is today. High damage (8-15k damage) skills shouldn’t be on a 4s cool down.

    Maybe if we didn't have 10 billion passives proccing 20x every fight we wouldn't need such crazy high damage.

    You missed the point, I have put it in bold for you. Skill is using the right skill at the right moment, not spamming skills so it eventually lands at the right moment.

    Also how do I get 10 billion passive in a single build?

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