People should multiclass to realise that majority of nerfs are correct

I believe that being at the receiving end, can help you realise how another class is truthfully broken/busted or plain weak. It's quite uncommon for a profession to receive unjust nerfs, I can think of a couple of bad nerfs for every class....out of dozen they received; in truth the majority of : "why did you nerf me?" threads are completely unnecessary, built on false misconception and misinformation.

Do multiclass, play each class for 1k+ hours in a competitive environment and see for yourself how the grass in not always greener on the other side...on the contrary it may be greener on your side, that should let you see more clearly the reason behind nerfs and buffs

Everyone should try warrior and experience the full wrath of other classes! That way they will learn that playing warrior is not as easy as they thought!

The nerfs where correct, though the issues go far beyond some numbers adjustement. The patch essentially close to nothing.

@Arheundel.6451 said:Do multiclass, play each class for 1k+ hours in a competitive environment and see for yourself how the grass in not always greener on the other side...on the contrary it may be greener on your side, that should let you see more clearly the reason behind nerfs and buffs

Not that I disagree with the fundamental premise of this post... but 1k hours? That's 42 straight days of playtime. I barely even have 4k hours after having my account for nearly 6 years.

We have 9 classes, and you want everyone to play each class for 1k hours each in a competetive environmemt? I get where you're coming from but if you have time to spend 9000 hours on a game (and thats not taking leveling and non-competetive hours in account) you might want to reconsider your priorities and rather have a balance patch irl.

Atleast that would be my advice regarding balance. The grass might be greener on the other side with lets say an career ;)

OR !!!! He meant that ppl can't argue about a class unless they had at least 1k hour played on it XD which is kinda to basic... Maybe a guy that has never experienced warrior will be less relevant talking about it but if he 's informed (without even playing it) he can still have a constructive argue

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:Do multiclass, play each class for 1k+ hours in a competitive environment and see for yourself how the grass in not always greener on the other side...on the contrary it may be greener on your side, that should let you see more clearly the reason behind nerfs and buffs

1k is an arbitrary number. I'm pretty sure the intention is "play every class long enough to feel comfortable with it's mechanics and develop a deep understanding of how the class interacts with other builds" and the required time to get there will be different for everyone. 1k just implies lots of experience but if you can get that level of exp in less time then by all means spend less time playing stuff you don't need more time to understand.

People just cant handle it when their passives get nerfed.

I play several classes (ele, thief, mesmer, engi) and I can tell you mesmer """"""""""nerfs"""""""""" are incorrect, as in they did absolutely nothing, especially the 3s exhaustion on EM stunbreak. At least I can see this lightning icon quite often as a daredevil because there are so many soft cc's flying around, but having it only occur on stunbreak? Wow maybe I need a pistol thief to spam headshots on me so I can keep removing the dazes to reliably see that exhaustion icon appear as often as I see it on daredevil. They even reverted it to 3s instead of 4s (while daredevil's is kept at 4s). What game were they playing that made them think 4s is too much? 1 mirage vs 5 warriors?

Exhaustion also doesn't prevent sigil of energy's recharge, and mesmers weapon swap a lot more often than thieves. And of course, none of those minor cd increase in some mesmers sword skills really matter. The only change I've really noticed is the cd increase in Phantasmal Disenchanter and Confounding Suggestion

All the other classes's nerfs can at least be felt. FA ele is literal trash now (and eles in general because sword is still bad while the dagger buffs are useless as dagger builds are still probably only as good as staff builds, maybe even worse), holos need to play smarter with their corona bursts, and I definitely noticed the damage nerf difference both holo and thief.

Dang.. and here, I was thinking that by Multi-classing, you meant that someone could mix Guardian with Thief classes, and mix and match the abilities, and limitations. Which would be an awesome idea.

Completely agree with this. From someone who does multiclass, I have always found the things that people complain are too strong, and go play them. When I do, I die a lot, and learn how they work. It's good from all angles. You can try something new that you may like, find out if it's really that strong, and if you don't like it, find things that can kill you, and then you can deal with the class/build when playing something else. I give at least a 40+ hours to a build alone if I actually want to complain about it. Any builds that I don't learn, my guildies/friends do, so we share tips on countering each of them. Nothing is unbeatable, and everything has a counter. I got a lot of complaints about mesmer being OP, shared some tips with them, and got destroyed after about an hour of duals. Everything has a counter, and if people spent the time that they were complaining on actually finding that counter, we'd have better games and matchups.

@zalt.8937 said:We have 9 classes, and you want everyone to play each class for 1k hours each in a competetive environmemt? I get where you're coming from but if you have time to spend 9000 hours on a game (and thats not taking leveling and non-competetive hours in account) you might want to reconsider your priorities and rather have a balance patch irl.

Atleast that would be my advice regarding balance. The grass might be greener on the other side with lets say an career ;)

I have a job, wife and child, own a small business and do some cricket on the weekends and have more than 9,000 hours in total racked up across all the professions.... It's not hard to do if GW2 is one of your hobbies.

@Hitman.5829 said:Everyone should try warrior and experience the full wrath of other classes! That way they will learn that playing warrior is not as easy as they thought!

while this is true, the passives were always holding warrior back from getting real stuff imo and is boring and bad for the game, as a former 5 year war, i encourage nerfs on the passive procs.

tho now i main holo now, just because how lacking is warrior in terms of functionality/mechanics

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@zalt.8937 said:We have 9 classes, and you want everyone to play each class for 1k hours each in a competetive environmemt? I get where you're coming from but if you have time to spend 9000 hours on a game (and thats not taking leveling and non-competetive hours in account) you might want to reconsider your priorities and rather have a balance patch irl.

Atleast that would be my advice regarding balance. The grass might be greener on the other side with lets say an career ;)

I respect that it's your hobby and all, and each to their own. I myself am a small business owner (tattooer) and i've got my first kid on the way and i can only find the time to play like 4 hours tops/week so I dont get how you do it lol. Then again we might have different priorities, and thats ok.

What I dont get is how OP think everyone should have atleast 9k competetive hours spent across all classes in order to understand why Anet balance the way they do. Most of us dont have the time nor are willing to spend over 375 days (24h/day) playing.And some simply dont enjoy all classes. Why would I force myself spending 1000hours playing something I dont enjoy when I could be doing something else?

Another sidenote is that not everyone started playing 6 years ago, and not all who did (myself included) has been active since release.

Anyway, just my two cents, you are ofc entitled to your own opinion and perception :)Sorry if grammar or spelling is off, english is not my first language.

@zalt.8937 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@zalt.8937 said:We have 9 classes, and you want everyone to play each class for 1k hours each in a competetive environmemt? I get where you're coming from but if you have time to spend 9000 hours on a game (and thats not taking leveling and non-competetive hours in account) you might want to reconsider your priorities and rather have a balance patch irl.

Atleast that would be my advice regarding balance. The grass might be greener on the other side with lets say an career ;)

Having the hours I do is not a common thing... Only reason my playtime is this high is because for a year I had a broken Leg, metal plate, 11 pins and a full ankle reconstruction, fell into depression because I lost a sponsorship for my vert riding and spent a lot of time in the first year of release playing about 14 hours a day, before I had a child to think about. Most I sleep of a night too is roughly 5-6 hours with the occasional 12 hour catch up sleep.I main all classes but Thief/Rev... On those toons I have maybe 300 hours roughly, it's hard playing my D/D thief build with Australian Lag and Rev is Rev.

I agree that asking for those hours is absurd but I also agree that people need to multitoon for a while before they understand the nerfs/buffs.

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@zalt.8937 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@zalt.8937 said:We have 9 classes, and you want everyone to play each class for 1k hours each in a competetive environmemt? I get where you're coming from but if you have time to spend 9000 hours on a game (and thats not taking leveling and non-competetive hours in account) you might want to reconsider your priorities and rather have a balance patch irl.

Atleast that would be my advice regarding balance. The grass might be greener on the other side with lets say an career ;)

Sorry to hear you went trough that, must have sucked big time.

I'm no opposed to multi classing in order to get a deeper understanding of how classes and their balance works, thats self explanatory. On the other hand, ive never played mesmer, ele nor engineer cause they dont appeal to me. I do however feel i understand them quite well having fought their different build over the years.

I'm not saying I have a deeper understanding of their class specifics or trait line synnergy, but i do see when something is over performing. Like i mainly play core ranger and thief, although i've played druid quite a lot and it was too strong. Too easy to play and too rewarding, so the nerfs were needed (from a spvp point of view)I also feel that mesmer is over performing although i've never played it. The lack of counterplay it offers and the safe nature provided by elite specs are the real offenders.

More high risk high reward and a across the board nerf to everything is what we need imo :)

I think what people should take from this is basically that if you don't have a deep understanding of a class, and have played it (and I'll add, at a high level in something competitive), then you should not be posting about things such as "Mesmer needs nerfs", "This trait is so broken", "Druid OP, please nerf". Yes, while some of these are true, you offer nothing and cause just another useless comment/thread. If we don't understand why SPECIFICALLY it's broken, down to each skill/trait/ect then there is no value in complaining. Quick example. I had fought many spellbreakers and had the impression that they had perma resistance, and basically always had blocks and invuln. I was horribly incorrect, but that's how it felt with no real knowledge. I had gone through the meta build, had a friend that played it well to duel, and he would tell me when I should be attacking or not, when things were about to proc, ect. I learned pretty quickly how to fight them and realized that I was going at it wrong. Was it too strong, yes. But would I have had literally anything USEFUL to complain about? No. Mesmer is the new big hurdle, specifically the Mirage. One huge tip that I have gotten in fighting them that works wonders is look at their effects more than other classes. When you see Mirage Cloak, you know they aren't likely to dodge again, and you can strike there, and if timed well, you can use that to know when to block/dodge, ect. No, they aren't balanced, but I'm no longer feeling like I'm fighting a god, but a class that could be brought into line instead. Guild mates are really helpful, and so are friends. An hour of learning something can save you an hour of rage typing on threads and bashing something that you have spent no time trying to learn how to counter, let alone play.

the nerfs in pvp were needed and well done with the exception of mesmer and scourge who need (especially in mesmers case) alot more nerfs.Scourge should not be able to 1v1 just as well as teamfight with it's large aoe covering almost the whole point.And Mesmer should either get reduced mobility and invinvibility/block uptime (scepter block has a cd of 4.8 sec) or have far less dmg.

@Hitman.5829 said:Everyone should try warrior and experience the full wrath of other classes! That way they will learn that playing warrior is not as easy as they thought!

ehhhhhhhhhhhhh

@"Arheundel.6451" said:I believe that being at the receiving end, can help you realise how another class is truthfully broken/busted or plain weak. It's quite uncommon for a profession to receive unjust nerfs, I can think of a couple of bad nerfs for every class....out of dozen they received; in truth the majority of : "why did you nerf me?" threads are completely unnecessary, built on false misconception and misinformation.

Do multiclass, play each class for 1k+ hours in a competitive environment and see for yourself how the grass in not always greener on the other side...on the contrary it may be greener on your side, that should let you see more clearly the reason behind nerfs and buffs

Tried this. I now play every class available in the game. I'm still learning a few of them, but I enjoy everything (even rev). It's caused me to be a bit blunter on reacting to brokenness, I think.

@Uncle Dalty.8327 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:Everyone should try warrior and experience the full wrath of other classes! That way they will learn that playing warrior is not as easy as they thought!

I've watched someone who thought warriors were busted in some aspects pick it up and be surprised at the mental state you need to play it. It's definitely more work than (MASH ALL THE THINGS). Not saying its like... stupid hard or easy, but its different and requires finesse like everything else, esp. if you've never tried it.

@Hitman.5829 said:Everyone should try warrior and experience the full wrath of other classes! That way they will learn that playing warrior is not as easy as they thought!

warrior is the easiest class to play in the whole game

If anyone believes nerfs were bad, they should play rev. They did nothing to it and it's still guano.

I life reading some of the posts on other prefession forum to gauge their reaction to patches. Give you a bit if a feel to the changes.

Also i have a tendacy to reserve jugment on nerfs un till i have play a bit and made some adjustments to my build to suit the patch. If most classes get nerfed then how bad is your nerfs really?

Though i do find that nerfing passives leads to first person to attack generally wins. And it turns in to a gank fest

@allias.1420 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:Everyone should try warrior and experience the full wrath of other classes! That way they will learn that playing warrior is not as easy as they thought!

Warrior is the second easiest in PvE, but try PvP or WvW and you will see warrior is not as easy as you think.Guardian is the easiest in all game modes.

@"Hitman.5829" said:Everyone should try warrior and experience the full wrath of other classes! That way they will learn that playing warrior is not as easy as they thought!

I did. Warrior wasn't very hard