Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged] - Page 28 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

12324252628

Comments

  • BlackBeard.2873BlackBeard.2873 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ragnarox.9601 said:

    Bunker guard. They are fine. GG Anet. Dont want to mention other underpowered skills.

    This seems balanced... Defensive abilities should be 1-shotting

    We are far enough down the slippery slope of power creep where a skill needs to either invuln, instagib, or full heal to be "impactful"

    Good Job balance team!! The best of jobs!

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chorazin.4107 said:
    I dont think anybody is arguing about this in a 1v1 on a point scenario. It's discerning what is occurring on point in a 4v4 or 3v3 engagement with pulsing scourge fields, holosmith explosion waves and a clutter of other illusions/phantasms. And as someone said he probably wasnt taunted by this defender, he is a support FB so probably had stab up. He didnt do any dmg to it, being hes a support FB. He just was on point and took 14k lol, because some Scourge or holo were nuking the kitten out of it with AoE's.

    Not to mention any defense skill hitting for 14 000 dmg should probably be reviewed lel.

    It's not a defensive skill.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • ilmi.5369ilmi.5369 Member ✭✭
    edited May 7, 2018

    I'd actually like my warrior's FC to do such damage. Wouldn't that be cool? I'm just a single warrior, easy to track and nothing near to the amount of mesmer clones that first need to be identified. After all, it's a clearly telegraphed skill. I mean If I defend a point, people should just dodge or not attack or leave me alone while I'm crunching skulls. People just should not attack me and eat some of my hard hitters without complaining. While we are at it, shield block should be changed to become a skill that does 15K damage when being attacked. Just gimme some rights man and L2P!

    EDIT:

    @Razor.6392 said:
    14k damage is totally fine because it has counterplay.

    I've been saying this, every class needs a very telegraphed 2s cast time 500k damage aoe nuke. It would be very balanced because it can be dodged and interrupted.

    Hell, Yeah!

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2018

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    It's not a defensive skill.

    This! At this point they're just playing dumb.
    Pretty sure they know at least one more skill named "defense" that's not a defensive skill.

    @Aza.2105 said:
    Just dodge man, thats what they will tell you.

    You don't even need to dodge, you only need to walk a few steps away from it, that's how ridiculous this whole thread is.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    how does this thing hit so hard? i never seen anything like this in wvw and i can;t get anything higher then 5k in pve.

    I understand dmg accumulates the more it blocks

    2 reasons mainly.

    1. In WvW fights tend to travel around a bit so most of the time people have moved away from where it’s blocking as there no capture point to force people near where it spawns and blocks.
    2. In WvW there’s a lot more unblockable, AoE and numbers which means most of the time it’s died before it does it’s attack even in small scale. Think how many spell breakers you see around, 2 full counters will kill it as it has about 7.2k health. Unblockable necro marks, any SD feef and that’s without mentioning the unblockable CC which screws up the AI half the time if it gets interrupted.
  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DaShi.1368 said:
    That's because many of the posts are from the same people. And about half of them are just "look at how many complaints mesmers have."

    Well, as long as the thread keeps getting bumped to the top then more people will see it and be able add their own fresh input.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • BMW.2951BMW.2951 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    If you get hit by defender, I’m sorry but it’s an l2p issue. What the combat log fails to showcase is that the defender is immobile and has a rather small radius, so simply moving away from it would’ve saved you from taking any damage. You only have yourself to blame.

    P.S. I almost forgot everyone’s favorite line.
    Git Gud!

    Enjoy your nerf on your broken class bro!

  • kitten.... I'll pitch in on this one. This may ultimately be a l2p issue since, as many players have already pointed out, ID is very avoidable.... However, the skill is also called Illusionary DEFENDER, probably because it's suppose to be a defensive cc type skill. Not entirely sure why a defensive based skill is capable of hitting for that much dmg under any circumstance. But I guess that just brings us back to one of the core balance issues with this game.... A large percentage of skills in the game work both defensively and offensively at the same time, or can at least be traited to do so....

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    If you get hit by defender, I’m sorry but it’s an l2p issue. What the combat log fails to showcase is that the defender is immobile and has a rather small radius, so simply moving away from it would’ve saved you from taking any damage. You only have yourself to blame.

    P.S. I almost forgot everyone’s favorite line.
    Git Gud!

    You also have to take into account that the defender taunts. So it forces you to run toward it and attack it with autos. It can still be deadly especially if you have quickness up, and an attack that has multiple hits within a single attack, let alone if the enemy timed an enemy aoe multihitting circle properly and used defender after it has been placed down. so it's not so much an l2p issue.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Theros.1390Theros.1390 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2018

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:
    Look I am bad and I don't understand the mechanics of a profession I am not playing. Also attaching a screenshot about it!

    Mate,

    Why are you talking about mechanic ? The OP talks about a DEFENSIVE skill which deals 14k on crit.

    So yea, the phantasm damages are increased for each hit it gets when it blocks. And then, in a teamfight for exemple, how are you supposed to manage this ?

    Com'on, 14 k on a defensive skill, by a phantasm you dont even have to shatter.

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2018

    @BMW.2951 said:

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    If you get hit by defender, I’m sorry but it’s an l2p issue. What the combat log fails to showcase is that the defender is immobile and has a rather small radius, so simply moving away from it would’ve saved you from taking any damage. You only have yourself to blame.

    P.S. I almost forgot everyone’s favorite line.
    Git Gud!

    Enjoy your nerf on your broken class bro!

    Not sure whose class you’re referring to, I don’t play phantasm chrono so your point is kinda moot.

    Nice try at baiting tho.

    Vae Victus!
    [Hcm] Promotraitor

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Uncle Dalty.8327 said:
    kitten.... I'll pitch in on this one. This may ultimately be a l2p issue since, as many players have already pointed out, ID is very avoidable.... However, the skill is also called Illusionary DEFENDER, probably because it's suppose to be a defensive cc type skill. Not entirely sure why a defensive based skill is capable of hitting for that much dmg under any circumstance. But I guess that just brings us back to one of the core balance issues with this game.... A large percentage of skills in the game work both defensively and offensively at the same time, or can at least be traited to do so....

    That skill doesnt provide any defense to be called defensive skill... as everyone trying to tell us that xD
    1s taunt on 50s cd and taking utility slot ? Compaed to em... bullcharge (3s knock, good damage 4-7k damage?,evade + movement) on 40/32s cd? Can Mesmer have bullcharge instead of ID ?:D
    Previous did small damage and granted 50 and then 33% damage reduction . Now skill does 1s taunt and explode for damage w/o any part of it being defensive for its user.

    @Theros.1390 said:

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:
    Look I am bad and I don't understand the mechanics of a profession I am not playing. Also attaching a screenshot about it!

    Mate,

    Why are you talking about mechanic ? The OP talks about a DEFENSIVE skill which deals 14k on crit.

    So yea, the phantasm damages are increased for each hit it gets when it blocks. And then, in a teamfight for exemple, how are you supposed to manage this ?

    Com'on, 14 k on a defensive skill, by a phantasm you even dont have to shatter.

    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...
    Hail Hydra ! I mean rework !

  • @Odik.4587 said:

    @Uncle Dalty.8327 said:
    kitten.... I'll pitch in on this one. This may ultimately be a l2p issue since, as many players have already pointed out, ID is very avoidable.... However, the skill is also called Illusionary DEFENDER, probably because it's suppose to be a defensive cc type skill. Not entirely sure why a defensive based skill is capable of hitting for that much dmg under any circumstance. But I guess that just brings us back to one of the core balance issues with this game.... A large percentage of skills in the game work both defensively and offensively at the same time, or can at least be traited to do so....

    That skill doesnt provide any defense to be called defensive skill... as everyone trying to tell us that xD
    1s taunt on 50s cd and taking utility slot ? Compaed to em... bullcharge (3s knock, good damage 4-7k damage?,evade + movement) on 40/32s cd? Can Mesmer have bullcharge instead of ID ?:D
    Previous did small damage and granted 50 and then 33% damage reduction . Now skill does 1s taunt and explode for damage w/o any part of it being defensive for its user.

    Guess that skill should be gutted again then... since it sounds like a kitten design. One skill should not take out 70-100% of someones health.... not that this is they only skill that can.

  • BMW.2951BMW.2951 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arlette.9684 said:

    @BMW.2951 said:

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    If you get hit by defender, I’m sorry but it’s an l2p issue. What the combat log fails to showcase is that the defender is immobile and has a rather small radius, so simply moving away from it would’ve saved you from taking any damage. You only have yourself to blame.

    P.S. I almost forgot everyone’s favorite line.
    Git Gud!

    Enjoy your nerf on your broken class bro!

    Not sure whose class you’re referring to, I don’t play phantasm chrono so your point is kinda moot.

    Nice try at baiting tho.

    I wasn't baiting? I just know a nerf will be in place for Chrono next balance patch. That is all.

  • AngelLovesFredrik.6741AngelLovesFredrik.6741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2018

    One more day of this build. Hopefully.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Nokzy Two.1734Nokzy Two.1734 Member ✭✭
    edited May 7, 2018

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Uncle Dalty.8327 said:
    kitten.... I'll pitch in on this one. This may ultimately be a l2p issue since, as many players have already pointed out, ID is very avoidable.... However, the skill is also called Illusionary DEFENDER, probably because it's suppose to be a defensive cc type skill. Not entirely sure why a defensive based skill is capable of hitting for that much dmg under any circumstance. But I guess that just brings us back to one of the core balance issues with this game.... A large percentage of skills in the game work both defensively and offensively at the same time, or can at least be traited to do so....

    That skill doesnt provide any defense to be called defensive skill... as everyone trying to tell us that xD
    1s taunt on 50s cd and taking utility slot ? Compaed to em... bullcharge (3s knock, good damage 4-7k damage?,evade + movement) on 40/32s cd? Can Mesmer have bullcharge instead of ID ?:D
    Previous did small damage and granted 50 and then 33% damage reduction . Now skill does 1s taunt and explode for damage w/o any part of it being defensive for its user.

    @Theros.1390 said:

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:
    Look I am bad and I don't understand the mechanics of a profession I am not playing. Also attaching a screenshot about it!

    Mate,

    Why are you talking about mechanic ? The OP talks about a DEFENSIVE skill which deals 14k on crit.

    So yea, the phantasm damages are increased for each hit it gets when it blocks. And then, in a teamfight for exemple, how are you supposed to manage this ?

    Com'on, 14 k on a defensive skill, by a phantasm you even dont have to shatter.

    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...
    Hail Hydra ! I mean rework !

    Why must you continously play dumb with people... Clearly it's a defensive skill by idk.. It's a Block that spawns the illusion that has Defender in the name, and until the silly change.. Was always a defensive ability... Hmm I can't seem to Imagine where do people get this defensive ability idea kappa

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    LOL, but he fails to see which part LOL.

  • @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    That's kitten gold

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    It doesn't provide any defense for the mesmer. At all. It's called defender because it blocks attacks aimed at the phantasm itself. Nothing about the skill defends the mesmer. It's literally just a ticking time bomb you drop on the ground. The max damage should be capped much lower, and the Inspiration grand master that summons one for free should get changed. But calling it a defensive skill is objectively nonsense.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    It doesn't provide any defense for the mesmer. At all. It's called defender because it blocks attacks aimed at the phantasm itself. Nothing about the skill defends the mesmer. It's literally just a ticking time bomb you drop on the ground. The max damage should be capped much lower, and the Inspiration grand master that summons one for free should get changed. But calling it a defensive skill is objectively nonsense.

    It used to be a defensive skill until they changed it to a mini mobile nuke that ccs you at the same time.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    It doesn't provide any defense for the mesmer. At all. It's called defender because it blocks attacks aimed at the phantasm itself. Nothing about the skill defends the mesmer. It's literally just a ticking time bomb you drop on the ground. The max damage should be capped much lower, and the Inspiration grand master that summons one for free should get changed. But calling it a defensive skill is objectively nonsense.

    It used to be a defensive skill until they changed it to a mini mobile nuke that ccs you at the same time.

    Used to be. Changed.

    It's also not mobile. Once it enters it's stance it won't move anymore.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    seems like a certain someone has been quiet, so we good with the mesmer defending for a while.

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    If you get hit by defender, I’m sorry but it’s an l2p issue. What the combat log fails to showcase is that the defender is immobile and has a rather small radius, so simply moving away from it would’ve saved you from taking any damage. You only have yourself to blame.

    P.S. I almost forgot everyone’s favorite line.
    Git Gud!

    It's not, as soon as there's 2 mesmers in a team it becomes ridiculous.
    And I'm sorry, but for most classes that deal high damage there's also a high risk. Mesmer has no risk/reward, you fail to 1 shot? no problem to run away.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    It doesn't provide any defense for the mesmer. At all. It's called defender because it blocks attacks aimed at the phantasm itself. Nothing about the skill defends the mesmer. It's literally just a ticking time bomb you drop on the ground. The max damage should be capped much lower, and the Inspiration grand master that summons one for free should get changed. But calling it a defensive skill is objectively nonsense.

    It used to be a defensive skill until they changed it to a mini mobile nuke that ccs you at the same time.

    Used to be. Changed.

    It's also not mobile. Once it enters it's stance it won't move anymore.

    It changed, which is precisely why its now an issue and should be nerfed or changed again.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    It doesn't provide any defense for the mesmer. At all. It's called defender because it blocks attacks aimed at the phantasm itself. Nothing about the skill defends the mesmer. It's literally just a ticking time bomb you drop on the ground. The max damage should be capped much lower, and the Inspiration grand master that summons one for free should get changed. But calling it a defensive skill is objectively nonsense.

    It used to be a defensive skill until they changed it to a mini mobile nuke that ccs you at the same time.

    Used to be. Changed.

    It's also not mobile. Once it enters it's stance it won't move anymore.

    It changed, which is precisely why its now an issue and should be nerfed or changed again.

    I think the max damage on it should be capped much lower but calling it a defensive is like calling Prime Light Beam a defensive skill. It's objectively 100% wrong.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    It doesn't provide any defense for the mesmer. At all. It's called defender because it blocks attacks aimed at the phantasm itself. Nothing about the skill defends the mesmer. It's literally just a ticking time bomb you drop on the ground. The max damage should be capped much lower, and the Inspiration grand master that summons one for free should get changed. But calling it a defensive skill is objectively nonsense.

    It used to be a defensive skill until they changed it to a mini mobile nuke that ccs you at the same time.

    Used to be. Changed.

    It's also not mobile. Once it enters it's stance it won't move anymore.

    It changed, which is precisely why its now an issue and should be nerfed or changed again.

    I think the max damage on it should be capped much lower but calling it a defensive is like calling Prime Light Beam a defensive skill. It's objectively 100% wrong.

    I think they should come out with a utility called Phantasmal Attacker and have it do 0 damage and nullify all damage in a 600 range circle. Because that makes sense.

    It's called Illusionary DEFENDER. It should not hit for 75% or more of someone's health.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    It doesn't provide any defense for the mesmer. At all. It's called defender because it blocks attacks aimed at the phantasm itself. Nothing about the skill defends the mesmer. It's literally just a ticking time bomb you drop on the ground. The max damage should be capped much lower, and the Inspiration grand master that summons one for free should get changed. But calling it a defensive skill is objectively nonsense.

    It used to be a defensive skill until they changed it to a mini mobile nuke that ccs you at the same time.

    Used to be. Changed.

    It's also not mobile. Once it enters it's stance it won't move anymore.

    It changed, which is precisely why its now an issue and should be nerfed or changed again.

    I think the max damage on it should be capped much lower but calling it a defensive is like calling Prime Light Beam a defensive skill. It's objectively 100% wrong.

    I think they should come out with a utility called Phantasmal Attacker and have it do 0 damage and nullify all damage in a 600 range circle. Because that makes sense.

    It's called Illusionary DEFENDER. It should not hit for 75% or more of someone's health.

    You're getting way too hung up on the name. It's still called defender because the phantasm blocks attacks aimed at it and does damage based on how much it absorbs.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    It doesn't provide any defense for the mesmer. At all. It's called defender because it blocks attacks aimed at the phantasm itself. Nothing about the skill defends the mesmer. It's literally just a ticking time bomb you drop on the ground. The max damage should be capped much lower, and the Inspiration grand master that summons one for free should get changed. But calling it a defensive skill is objectively nonsense.

    It used to be a defensive skill until they changed it to a mini mobile nuke that ccs you at the same time.

    Used to be. Changed.

    It's also not mobile. Once it enters it's stance it won't move anymore.

    It changed, which is precisely why its now an issue and should be nerfed or changed again.

    I think the max damage on it should be capped much lower but calling it a defensive is like calling Prime Light Beam a defensive skill. It's objectively 100% wrong.

    I think they should come out with a utility called Phantasmal Attacker and have it do 0 damage and nullify all damage in a 600 range circle. Because that makes sense.

    It's called Illusionary DEFENDER. It should not hit for 75% or more of someone's health.

    You're getting way too hung up on the name. It's still called defender because the phantasm blocks attacks aimed at it and does damage based on how much it absorbs.

    No lmao it's called defender because it used to reduce the damage taken by the mesmer and nearby allies by 50%. However they buffed it to ridiculousness and kept the name.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    It doesn't provide any defense for the mesmer. At all. It's called defender because it blocks attacks aimed at the phantasm itself. Nothing about the skill defends the mesmer. It's literally just a ticking time bomb you drop on the ground. The max damage should be capped much lower, and the Inspiration grand master that summons one for free should get changed. But calling it a defensive skill is objectively nonsense.

    It used to be a defensive skill until they changed it to a mini mobile nuke that ccs you at the same time.

    Used to be. Changed.

    It's also not mobile. Once it enters it's stance it won't move anymore.

    It changed, which is precisely why its now an issue and should be nerfed or changed again.

    I think the max damage on it should be capped much lower but calling it a defensive is like calling Prime Light Beam a defensive skill. It's objectively 100% wrong.

    I think they should come out with a utility called Phantasmal Attacker and have it do 0 damage and nullify all damage in a 600 range circle. Because that makes sense.

    It's called Illusionary DEFENDER. It should not hit for 75% or more of someone's health.

    You're getting way too hung up on the name. It's still called defender because the phantasm blocks attacks aimed at it and does damage based on how much it absorbs.

    No lmao it's called defender because it used to reduce the damage taken by the mesmer and nearby allies by 50%. However they buffed it to ridiculousness and kept the name.

    Eliminate Chronophantasma and Mental Defense, make the max damage cap 50% lower than it is and I'm perfectly fine with the skill.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    It doesn't provide any defense for the mesmer. At all. It's called defender because it blocks attacks aimed at the phantasm itself. Nothing about the skill defends the mesmer. It's literally just a ticking time bomb you drop on the ground. The max damage should be capped much lower, and the Inspiration grand master that summons one for free should get changed. But calling it a defensive skill is objectively nonsense.

    It used to be a defensive skill until they changed it to a mini mobile nuke that ccs you at the same time.

    Used to be. Changed.

    It's also not mobile. Once it enters it's stance it won't move anymore.

    It changed, which is precisely why its now an issue and should be nerfed or changed again.

    I think the max damage on it should be capped much lower but calling it a defensive is like calling Prime Light Beam a defensive skill. It's objectively 100% wrong.

    No. Its still a defensive skill. Its just very poorly tuned, in almost every way imaginable. When you use the skill, a different entity taunts the enemy, taking pressure off of yourself. Conceptually its a defensive skill. And it should be balanced in such a way that reflects that, or be redesigned

    And Prime Light Beam is a blow out that also takes pressure off yourself by ccing the enemy.

    The damage is overturned but the core mechanics of the skill are fine.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • After coming back to my Mesmer main I can tell this is a L2P issue. It’s so easy to spot when you get taunted by the ID. Like, the fact that people say they can’t see it because of the illusion spam makes me laugh. I used to cry about the illusion spam until I learned to play against a Mesmer. They are also definitely really not that hard to pick out the real one.

    Hint, when you get taunted, your target changes and you lose control of your character and start running towards the ID while auto attacking. Your screen also flashes. You also get a symbol above your head.

    You people REALLY can’t tell you are attacking it???

    LEARN TO PLAY.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    @CaldaRaric.6305 said:
    After coming back to my Mesmer main I can tell this is a L2P issue. It’s so easy to spot when you get taunted by the ID. Like, the fact that people say they can’t see it because of the illusion spam makes me laugh. I used to cry about the illusion spam until I learned to play against a Mesmer. They are also definitely really not that hard to pick out the real one.

    Hint, when you get taunted, your target changes and you lose control of your character and start running towards the ID while auto attacking. Your screen also flashes. You also get a symbol above your head.

    You would be right if there wasn't a little thing called stability.

    See, stability prevents taunt's CC from affecting the player. So if you're a holosmith, warrior, or firebrand who has stability on (current meta builds with stability), you may never notice the taunt in the first place, which makes phantasmal defender much harder to spot amidst the other illusions. Additionally, the phantasm will also punish everyone in the given area, so in a teamfight if a scourge or holo is brainlessly spamming on your team, the phantasmal defender may actually kill somebody who wasn't even attacking it.

    In general, not a good design -- it's fine to have a skill that punishes players for attacking recklessly (IE Retaliation), but it's not ok for it to do as massive damage as it seems to currently do, especially when it's hurting players who may not have hit it at all. If you go back to GW1, there's a great hex that can be used as an example -- Spiteful Spirit. I'd rather see phantasmal defender replaced with something akin to this, as it requires more skill to use effectively.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭

    @CaldaRaric.6305 said:
    After coming back to my Mesmer main I can tell this is a L2P issue. It’s so easy to spot when you get taunted by the ID. Like, the fact that people say they can’t see it because of the illusion spam makes me laugh. I used to cry about the illusion spam until I learned to play against a Mesmer. They are also definitely really not that hard to pick out the real one.

    Hint, when you get taunted, your target changes and you lose control of your character and start running towards the ID while auto attacking. Your screen also flashes. You also get a symbol above your head.

    You people REALLY can’t tell you are attacking it???

    LEARN TO PLAY.

    Again, 1 mesmer is fine, 2 (or more because people swap and exploit this stupid) is quickly ridiculous. 3 and I would love to see videos of teams that beat a team with 3 mesmers in it. And yes it is a visual mess (just like scourge can be when they team up). Unlike scourge though, which -has- counters, mesmers have no good counters, or it requires nerfing your build to oblivion.
    And again, the risk/reward is ridiculously generous for mesmer, they take no/very little risk doing anything unlike other classes. If you miss your one shot it's not a big deal.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    It doesn't provide any defense for the mesmer. At all. It's called defender because it blocks attacks aimed at the phantasm itself. Nothing about the skill defends the mesmer. It's literally just a ticking time bomb you drop on the ground. The max damage should be capped much lower, and the Inspiration grand master that summons one for free should get changed. But calling it a defensive skill is objectively nonsense.

    It used to be a defensive skill until they changed it to a mini mobile nuke that ccs you at the same time.

    Used to be. Changed.

    It's also not mobile. Once it enters it's stance it won't move anymore.

    It changed, which is precisely why its now an issue and should be nerfed or changed again.

    I think the max damage on it should be capped much lower but calling it a defensive is like calling Prime Light Beam a defensive skill. It's objectively 100% wrong.

    I think they should come out with a utility called Phantasmal Attacker and have it do 0 damage and nullify all damage in a 600 range circle. Because that makes sense.

    It's called Illusionary DEFENDER. It should not hit for 75% or more of someone's health.

    You're getting way too hung up on the name. It's still called defender because the phantasm blocks attacks aimed at it and does damage based on how much it absorbs.

    No lmao it's called defender because it used to reduce the damage taken by the mesmer and nearby allies by 50%. However they buffed it to ridiculousness and kept the name.

    Eliminate Chronophantasma and Mental Defense, make the max damage cap 50% lower than it is and I'm perfectly fine with the skill.

    Did you see the screenshot? Defender can hit for more than 14k. Halving that to 7k is still WAY too much for a defensive skill.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

    The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."

    It doesn't provide any defense for the mesmer. At all. It's called defender because it blocks attacks aimed at the phantasm itself. Nothing about the skill defends the mesmer. It's literally just a ticking time bomb you drop on the ground. The max damage should be capped much lower, and the Inspiration grand master that summons one for free should get changed. But calling it a defensive skill is objectively nonsense.

    It used to be a defensive skill until they changed it to a mini mobile nuke that ccs you at the same time.

    Used to be. Changed.

    It's also not mobile. Once it enters it's stance it won't move anymore.

    It changed, which is precisely why its now an issue and should be nerfed or changed again.

    I think the max damage on it should be capped much lower but calling it a defensive is like calling Prime Light Beam a defensive skill. It's objectively 100% wrong.

    No. Its still a defensive skill. Its just very poorly tuned, in almost every way imaginable. When you use the skill, a different entity taunts the enemy, taking pressure off of yourself. Conceptually its a defensive skill. And it should be balanced in such a way that reflects that, or be redesigned

    And Prime Light Beam is a blow out that also takes pressure off yourself by ccing the enemy.

    The damage is overturned but the core mechanics of the skill are fine.

    The stupidity on the forums surprises me more and more every day.

    Prime Light Beam is a purely offensive skill.

    Illusionary Defender is a utility skill on a shorter cooldown that can be used more frequently while doing more damage than an elite skill. Nerf the damage by 75% minimum so it hits for 3k and the skill will be more balanced.

    It's not a defensive skill in any sense. Get over it.

    Would you be this stubborn and bent out of shape if it was called something like Phantasmal Redirector? You're so absurdly hung up on the name it's ridiculous.

    I also don't appreciate being called stupid. Chill out.

    You STILL don't seem to understand. I don't give a flying kitten what the name is.

    Also, everyone knows its not a defensive skill. Everyone is saying it SHOULD be. It used to be a purely defensive utility until Anet decided to make a spammable AI that ccs you and has the potential to chunk you for 75% or more of your health in a single hit.

    Yes, I would still be annoyed at the fact that a spammable utility does 14,000 damage while ccing you. Would you not?

    Chrono is busted as kitten. There's only a select few that don't seem to understand that.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    You STILL don't seem to understand. I don't give a flying kitten what the name is.
    Also, everyone knows its not a defensive skill. Everyone is saying it SHOULD be. It used to be a purely defensive utility until Anet decided to make a spammable AI that ccs you and has the potential to chunk you for 75% or more of your health in a single hit.

    Ahh I see. I get it no-

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Did you see the screenshot? Defender can hit for more than 14k. Halving that to 7k is still WAY too much for a defensive skill.
    @shadowpass.4236 said:> The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."
    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    No lmao it's called defender because it used to reduce the damage taken by the mesmer and nearby allies by 50%. However they buffed it to ridiculousness and kept the name.

    Well you sure fooled me. If that was what you were trying to communicate maybe you should have just said that instead of all caps typing "DEFENDER" at me and calling me stupid.

    Yes, I would still be annoyed at the fact that a spammable utility does 14,000 damage while ccing you. Would you not?

    Chrono is busted as kitten. There's only a select few that don't seem to understand that.

    I've been one of the most vocal people on this forum about the broken state of Chronomancer and pointing out exactly where the problems with it lie. This is my diagnosis for nerfing phantasmal defender:

    1. Eliminate Chronophantasma in it's current form. Each defender summoning twice is an absurd thing to expect any player to deal with.
    2. Eliminate Mental Defense in it's current form. Phantasmal Defender is too powerful of a skill to summon for free when a Mesmer blocks or evades an attack. Two of them for free with Chronophantasma.
    3. Nerf the damage by 50%. Maybe more.

    But I'm overall fine with the skill being a phantasm that taunts and blocks and chunks enemy players based on how many attacks it absorbs. I think 7k on a Berserker Amulet and 4k on a Paladin Amulet are about how much damage a super charged defender should hit for. On an individual level I think it's a fun skill to play around. The problem is that it's currently simultaneously overtuned and Chronomancers can summon a million of them back to back to back.

    But please, keep calling me stupid friendo.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    You STILL don't seem to understand. I don't give a flying kitten what the name is.
    Also, everyone knows its not a defensive skill. Everyone is saying it SHOULD be. It used to be a purely defensive utility until Anet decided to make a spammable AI that ccs you and has the potential to chunk you for 75% or more of your health in a single hit.

    Ahh I see. I get it no-

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Did you see the screenshot? Defender can hit for more than 14k. Halving that to 7k is still WAY too much for a defensive skill.
    @shadowpass.4236 said:> The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."
    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    No lmao it's called defender because it used to reduce the damage taken by the mesmer and nearby allies by 50%. However they buffed it to ridiculousness and kept the name.

    Well you sure fooled me. If that was what you were trying to communicate maybe you should have just said that instead of all caps typing "DEFENDER" at me and calling me stupid.

    Yes, I would still be annoyed at the fact that a spammable utility does 14,000 damage while ccing you. Would you not?

    Chrono is busted as kitten. There's only a select few that don't seem to understand that.

    I've been one of the most vocal people on this forum about the broken state of Chronomancer and pointing out exactly where the problems with it lie. This is my diagnosis for nerfing phantasmal defender:

    1. Eliminate Chronophantasma in it's current form. Each defender summoning twice is an absurd thing to expect any player to deal with.
    2. Eliminate Mental Defense in it's current form. Phantasmal Defender is too powerful of a skill to summon for free when a Mesmer blocks or evades an attack. Two of them for free with Chronophantasma.
    3. Nerf the damage by 50%. Maybe more.

    But I'm overall fine with the skill being a phantasm that taunts and blocks and chunks enemy players based on how many attacks it absorbs. I think 7k on a Berserker Amulet and 4k on a Paladin Amulet are about how much damage a super charged defender should hit for. On an individual level I think it's a fun skill to play around. The problem is that it's currently simultaneously overtuned and Chronomancers can summon a million of them back to back to back.

    But please, keep calling me stupid friendo.

    • No, that was directed at Odik, not you.

    I don't see what you're trying to say. The skill used to be a purely defensive utility. Hence why it was called Phantasmal DEFENDER. Now, it went from a defensive skill to a spammable utility that ccs and deals ridiculous amounts of damage.

    You're just arguing with me about the name. If you're really insistent, it has the word "defense" in the name but it is literally everything BUT defensive.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    You STILL don't seem to understand. I don't give a flying kitten what the name is.
    Also, everyone knows its not a defensive skill. Everyone is saying it SHOULD be. It used to be a purely defensive utility until Anet decided to make a spammable AI that ccs you and has the potential to chunk you for 75% or more of your health in a single hit.

    Ahh I see. I get it no-

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Did you see the screenshot? Defender can hit for more than 14k. Halving that to 7k is still WAY too much for a defensive skill.
    @shadowpass.4236 said:> The name, "Phantasmal DEFENDER."
    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    No lmao it's called defender because it used to reduce the damage taken by the mesmer and nearby allies by 50%. However they buffed it to ridiculousness and kept the name.

    Well you sure fooled me. If that was what you were trying to communicate maybe you should have just said that instead of all caps typing "DEFENDER" at me and calling me stupid.

    Yes, I would still be annoyed at the fact that a spammable utility does 14,000 damage while ccing you. Would you not?

    Chrono is busted as kitten. There's only a select few that don't seem to understand that.

    I've been one of the most vocal people on this forum about the broken state of Chronomancer and pointing out exactly where the problems with it lie. This is my diagnosis for nerfing phantasmal defender:

    1. Eliminate Chronophantasma in it's current form. Each defender summoning twice is an absurd thing to expect any player to deal with.
    2. Eliminate Mental Defense in it's current form. Phantasmal Defender is too powerful of a skill to summon for free when a Mesmer blocks or evades an attack. Two of them for free with Chronophantasma.
    3. Nerf the damage by 50%. Maybe more.

    But I'm overall fine with the skill being a phantasm that taunts and blocks and chunks enemy players based on how many attacks it absorbs. I think 7k on a Berserker Amulet and 4k on a Paladin Amulet are about how much damage a super charged defender should hit for. On an individual level I think it's a fun skill to play around. The problem is that it's currently simultaneously overtuned and Chronomancers can summon a million of them back to back to back.

    But please, keep calling me stupid friendo.

    • No, that was directed at Odik, not you.

    I don't see what you're trying to say. The skill used to be a purely defensive utility. Hence why it was called Phantasmal DEFENDER. Now, it went from a defensive skill to a spammable utility that ccs and deals ridiculous amounts of damage.

    You're just arguing with me about the name. If you're really insistent, it has the word "defense" in the name but it is literally everything BUT defensive.

    You were literally quoting me, no one else, and called me stupid.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Ragnarox.9601Ragnarox.9601 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    Dont argue, we all know this will be nerfed, so the question is, is it going to be nerfhammered or just "buffing spirit weapons" type nerf.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ragnarox.9601 said:
    Dont argue, we all know this will be nerfed, so the question is, is it going to be nerfhammered or just "buffing spirit weapons" type nerf.

    I'm absolutely fine with it being nerfhammered (but rework into actually defending phantasm is appreciated) because mesmer before never took Phantasmal defender no matter which build they were running. Lets be honest here . Every class have a lot of skills that they never want to bring in PvP . Defender was one of them like disenchanter before this absurd rework.

  • rank eleven monk.9502rank eleven monk.9502 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @CaldaRaric.6305 said:
    After coming back to my Mesmer main I can tell this is a L2P issue. It’s so easy to spot when you get taunted by the ID. Like, the fact that people say they can’t see it because of the illusion spam makes me laugh. I used to cry about the illusion spam until I learned to play against a Mesmer. They are also definitely really not that hard to pick out the real one.

    Hint, when you get taunted, your target changes and you lose control of your character and start running towards the ID while auto attacking. Your screen also flashes. You also get a symbol above your head.

    You people REALLY can’t tell you are attacking it???

    LEARN TO PLAY.

    Yeah its a L2P issue. That's precisely why Chronomancer (the build that uses Phantasmal Defender) got banned from the Mist Challenger Tournament last Saturday. It's because every single high tier player competing in the tournament has a L2P issue.

    :]

    Wow that analogy. Chronomancer is imbalanced therefore Phantasmal Defender is imbalanced :D Based on this logic you could call Blink or staff1 imbalanced as well.

    Let's look at this properly: Chronomancer is obviously imbalanced but NOT because of Phantasmal Defender. Stacking up the Defender's damage IS a l2p issue. Getting beaten by a chrono is not. There are far worse problems with chrono - chronophantasma in it's current state, SoI (yes, still), Bountiful Disillusionment and I could go on (there are a gazillion threads about this already). Defender in itself not one of them.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @CaldaRaric.6305 said:
    After coming back to my Mesmer main I can tell this is a L2P issue. It’s so easy to spot when you get taunted by the ID. Like, the fact that people say they can’t see it because of the illusion spam makes me laugh. I used to cry about the illusion spam until I learned to play against a Mesmer. They are also definitely really not that hard to pick out the real one.

    Hint, when you get taunted, your target changes and you lose control of your character and start running towards the ID while auto attacking. Your screen also flashes. You also get a symbol above your head.

    You people REALLY can’t tell you are attacking it???

    LEARN TO PLAY.

    Yeah its a L2P issue. That's precisely why Chronomancer (the build that uses Phantasmal Defender) got banned from the Mist Challenger Tournament last Saturday. It's because every single high tier player competing in the tournament has a L2P issue.

    :]

    Wow that analogy. Chronomancer is imbalanced therefore Phantasmal Defender is imbalanced :D Based on this logic you could call Blink or staff1 imbalanced as well.

    Let's look at this properly: Chronomancer is obviously imbalanced but NOT because of Phantasmal Defender. Stacking up the Defender's damage IS a l2p issue. Getting beaten by a chrono is not. There are far worse problems with chrono - chronophantasma in it's current state, SoI (yes, still), Bountiful Disillusionment and I could go on (there are a gazillion threads about this already). Defender in itself not one of them.

    If the massive amount of damage is a L2P issue, then why was Gazelle damage nerfed?

  • AngelLovesFredrik.6741AngelLovesFredrik.6741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @rank eleven monk.9502 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @CaldaRaric.6305 said:
    After coming back to my Mesmer main I can tell this is a L2P issue. It’s so easy to spot when you get taunted by the ID. Like, the fact that people say they can’t see it because of the illusion spam makes me laugh. I used to cry about the illusion spam until I learned to play against a Mesmer. They are also definitely really not that hard to pick out the real one.

    Hint, when you get taunted, your target changes and you lose control of your character and start running towards the ID while auto attacking. Your screen also flashes. You also get a symbol above your head.

    You people REALLY can’t tell you are attacking it???

    LEARN TO PLAY.

    Yeah its a L2P issue. That's precisely why Chronomancer (the build that uses Phantasmal Defender) got banned from the Mist Challenger Tournament last Saturday. It's because every single high tier player competing in the tournament has a L2P issue.

    :]

    Wow that analogy. Chronomancer is imbalanced therefore Phantasmal Defender is imbalanced :D Based on this logic you could call Blink or staff1 imbalanced as well.

    Let's look at this properly: Chronomancer is obviously imbalanced but NOT because of Phantasmal Defender. Stacking up the Defender's damage IS a l2p issue. Getting beaten by a chrono is not. There are far worse problems with chrono - chronophantasma in it's current state, SoI (yes, still), Bountiful Disillusionment and I could go on (there are a gazillion threads about this already). Defender in itself not one of them.

    Chronomancers fundamental design is flawed and the class is basically overpowered by nature. CS is a huge offender here. Another offender is how good mesmer trait-lines synergizes with each other.
    That being said, it's the absurd damage coming from disenchanter and defender that's pushing it into god tier status. If the damage was on par with other classes running paladin, it would just be an obnoxious tank. However, when the tank hits about as hard as a radiance guardian, zerk core war or an S/D thief. That's when we have the issue that is the current implementation of Chronomancer.

    Hopefully the build will get butchered tonight, because numbers alone won't fix it. No matter how low the numbers are, the build is still incredibly unfun to play vs.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • CaldaRaric.6305CaldaRaric.6305 Member ✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @CaldaRaric.6305 said:
    After coming back to my Mesmer main I can tell this is a L2P issue. It’s so easy to spot when you get taunted by the ID. Like, the fact that people say they can’t see it because of the illusion spam makes me laugh. I used to cry about the illusion spam until I learned to play against a Mesmer. They are also definitely really not that hard to pick out the real one.

    Hint, when you get taunted, your target changes and you lose control of your character and start running towards the ID while auto attacking. Your screen also flashes. You also get a symbol above your head.

    You people REALLY can’t tell you are attacking it???

    LEARN TO PLAY.

    Again, 1 mesmer is fine, 2 (or more because people swap and exploit this stupid) is quickly ridiculous. 3 and I would love to see videos of teams that beat a team with 3 mesmers in it. And yes it is a visual mess (just like scourge can be when they team up). Unlike scourge though, which -has- counters, mesmers have no good counters, or it requires nerfing your build to oblivion.
    And again, the risk/reward is ridiculously generous for mesmer, they take no/very little risk doing anything unlike other classes. If you miss your one shot it's not a big deal.

    You’ve never played a Mesmer I take it. A Scourge(2 on other team in every match) is a lot worse than Mesmers are. There is usually only 1 Mesmer on opposite team. There is always 2 Scourges on opposite team. Scourge should not exist in conquest. Mesmers do have a counter and it’s called people who know what the kitten they’re doing.

    I melt Chronos every time I see them. Don’t know what the problem is.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.