PvP Special Tournaments — Guild Wars 2 Forums

PvP Special Tournaments

edited April 1, 2018 in PVP

Hey folks! I wanted to take a few minutes this morning to talk about special event tournaments.

We've been holding back on doing special tournaments until we had swiss format complete. Unfortunately, swiss is taking longer than I'd hoped. Because of this, I'm considering running special tournaments before swiss.

My main concern is that the swiss format provides a much better player experience. If you lose, you're not immediately booted from the tournament. Without swiss, people could be waiting hours to join a 2v2 tournament just to get knocked out within 5 minutes.

The discussion I'd like to see is: Do you think it's better to wait for swiss or should we move forward on event tournaments sooner? How much do you think we jeapardize future participation by running event tournaments with a less than ideal format?

I'm very curious to see your thoughts!

Ben Phongluangtham
Game Designer
Reddit: ANET_BenP
Twitch: AnetBenP

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Comments

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2018

    I would prefer to wait when its not much longer than 6 months. Otherwise start before

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Allarius.5670Allarius.5670 Member ✭✭✭

    A varied and incomplete experience sooner versus a varied and completed experience later (varied as in different from conquest).

    I think it makes the most sense to wait until you can put your best foot forward, even if that means a longer than ideal wait, considering it may be a new experience for many interested. For these players, I think being taken by surprise without a chance to adapt and come back could leave a lingering foul taste in their mouth, especially considering the game mode and that special tournaments do not appear as though they will be as common.

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2018

    I'd say if you can get swiss done before summer then swiss it is, but I realize that it's probably going to take longer.

    Well, I like conquest but we've been playing it for more than 5 years now, I think the sooner we get something to spice things up the better.

    Swiss may improve the experience overall, but I doubt that it'll pump those participation numbers up by much, while special tournaments will most certainly bring in tons of people.

    TL;DR I'd vote for special tournament before swiss.

    One last thing I'd add - if you're gonna do a 2v2 or 3v3, just reduce outgoing healing by 33-50% and I think balance won't be a problem

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭

    April Fools!
    Anet can't actually spaghetti something like this together without accidentally detatching more hitboxes from each other and causing fall damage traits to deal millions of damage.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Come to think of it, there might be an April Fools joke hidden in here somewhere. :lol:

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭

    Pvp is ded currently and season 11 with the same old circlequest maps bound to fight one 3 single points on a map. I'd say wait for a few months or a year to try again. Takie your time to work on something besides a circlequest map then we can try again. 2v2 3v3 5v5 tdm sounds amazing. Then you have the possibility of a new stronghold map if you ever have time away from making flashy skins. But pvp is the lowest of low priorities so i understand why it is the crudhole it is now.

  • Milan.9035Milan.9035 Member ✭✭✭

    why not do both, put out what you got and continue working on the swiss?

  • just a reminder that wintrading is still the problem no.1, even with the recent "bans". pvp is full of it, wether known wintrade figure or casual player that decided to cheat himself into top10/25. with each season the titles get less prestigeous and players get more frustrated that they have to deal with this and end up quitting. even after a big patch like the recent one i hear people say they skip seasons or drop pvp because the problem is still the same. do something drastic like deleting all season titles e.g., and hand out instant permanent bans for mm/wintrading. you need to keep doing something or we wont even come to swiss format..speaking of it i'd guess waiting for its completion is better

  • Beast.1769Beast.1769 Member ✭✭
    edited April 1, 2018

    I think you should do the Swiss style tournaments when it's possible, or some type of tournament rather than waiting for it to get polished out before realeasing... Because if it is realsed earlier you can just get feedback from the community and polish it out that way 🙂

  • @Milan.9035 said:
    why not do both, put out what you got and continue working on the swiss?

    Doing special event tournaments before swiss won't stop us from continuing work on swiss.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2018

    Just to clarify:
    -By Swiss it would be best of 3, correct? Would this apply to all tiers of the tournaments? Like every single match up would be Bo3?
    -By special tournaments, do you mean 2v2s and 3v3s? I know you've talked about this in the past but I'd just like it to be clear.

    Now me personally, I would rather have the special tournaments come before the Swiss. I play pretty casually at the moment and would like to be able to, for example, queue up for a 2v2 with my fiancé or a friend. I wouldn't be heartbroken about being booted within the first 5 minutes. It would also be nice to have an alternative game mode out sooner.

  • Abazigal.3679Abazigal.3679 Member ✭✭✭

    It depends how long should it take to be implemented. I mean, if we consider the following case :

    • Swiss will be implemented in september
    • Special tournaments can be implemented in may, but then swiss tournaments will be implemented in november

    Then obviously, we should have special tournaments. Alternatively, if swiss tournaments were to be implemented in june, i'd wait for them !

  • Mr Godlike.6098Mr Godlike.6098 Member ✭✭✭

    Swiss should be first so more people will have actually chance to enjoy it. Besides if it would happen now...we would have to wait god knows how much for anything new and that would be depressing.

  • Twyn.7320Twyn.7320 Member ✭✭✭

    Put the Tournaments out first, then push Swiss out when it's ready! The PvP community needs content, rather than 'perfected' content. Just something to do that isn't Conquest or the same Stronghold map. :P

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Milan.9035 said:
    why not do both, put out what you got and continue working on the swiss?

    Doing special event tournaments before swiss won't stop us from continuing work on swiss.

    maybe it's not better do some special tournament outside at system in personal arena? i know that this way you need some ppl to check the rooms and organize stuff , but i think it's the better choice at the moment....

  • @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    Just to clarify:
    -By Swiss it would be best of 3, correct? Would this apply to all tiers of the tournaments? Like every single match up would be Bo3?
    -By special tournaments, do you mean 2v2s and 3v3s? I know you've talked about this in the past but I'd just like it to be clear.

    Now me personally, I would rather have the special tournaments come before the Swiss. I play pretty casually at the moment and would like to be able to, for example, queue up for a 2v2 with my fiancé or a friend. I wouldn't be heartbroken about being booted within the first 5 minutes. It would also be nice to have an alternative game mode out sooner.

    Swiss is a system where all teams play a certain number of rounds. You aren't eliminated immediately for losing. We would have a certain number of swiss rounds based on number of participants and then cut to top X teams based on record. The tournament then would move to a single elim tournament until finals. Finals will be best of 3.

    By special tournaments, I do mean 2v2's, 3v3's, potentially courtyard, etc.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • Booms.2594Booms.2594 Member ✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    Just to clarify:
    -By Swiss it would be best of 3, correct? Would this apply to all tiers of the tournaments? Like every single match up would be Bo3?
    -By special tournaments, do you mean 2v2s and 3v3s? I know you've talked about this in the past but I'd just like it to be clear.

    Now me personally, I would rather have the special tournaments come before the Swiss. I play pretty casually at the moment and would like to be able to, for example, queue up for a 2v2 with my fiancé or a friend. I wouldn't be heartbroken about being booted within the first 5 minutes. It would also be nice to have an alternative game mode out sooner.

    Swiss is a system where all teams play a certain number of rounds. You aren't eliminated immediately for losing. We would have a certain number of swiss rounds based on number of participants and then cut to top X teams based on record. The tournament then would move to a single elim tournament until finals. Finals will be best of 3.

    By special tournaments, I do mean 2v2's, 3v3's, potentially courtyard, etc.

    Just do special tournaments now. No downsides.

  • HeadCrowned.6834HeadCrowned.6834 Member ✭✭✭

    Roll out the special tournaments, and then implement the swiss style later.

  • My vote is to simply WAIT. The perceived problem has been pushing out PvP changes that are half-decent instead of waiting until a good product is ready. Now of course, the kicker is "how long is the wait".

  • Namless.4028Namless.4028 Member ✭✭✭

    Id prefer special tournaments, because i think that they have the potential to get more players into pvp.
    Btw would it be possible to make the rewards increase/desrase with the ammount of teams playing in an at.
    Its unfair imo that a tournament with 30 teams has the same rewards as a tournament with 8 teams

  • Chilli.2976Chilli.2976 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2018

    Wait for swiss if the rewards are better and provide a better tournament experience, otherwise proceed with the "special tournaments".

    EDIT: Have you thought about doing a poll, or do you think the results won't justify reasoning?

    twitch.tv/chillichur

  • Keyba.9570Keyba.9570 Member ✭✭

    I hear ToL is still in discussion. Is this true?

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭

    dont make it before june 28th ok pls ty

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • @Keyba.9570 said:
    I hear ToL is still in discussion. Is this true?

    ToL will be a special tournament at some point. But certainly not until swiss.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • Keyba.9570Keyba.9570 Member ✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Keyba.9570 said:
    I hear ToL is still in discussion. Is this true?

    ToL will be a special tournament at some point. But certainly not until swiss.

    Awesome! Can't wait!

  • BeLZedaR.4790BeLZedaR.4790 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    How long is "longer than expected"? Are we talking about like 2 months, 6 months, or even a year? Because my answer would vary based on the timeframe. If it's more like 2 months, I would want to wait, if closer to or over 6 months I'd say let's get this ball rolling, and have a test run to see how it feels.

    An answer to this will be very useful so we can give you an opinion.

    Unyielding Legend
    Make condi rev great again!
    Say no to braindead high reward builds

  • brannigan.9831brannigan.9831 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2018

    I don't understand how anybody can answer anything but yes put in the tournaments now and worry about the Swiss format later. Swiss isn't coming later by putting in tournaments without it first.

  • Shirlias.8104Shirlias.8104 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2018

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    My main concern is that the swiss format provides a much better player experience. If you lose, you're not immediately booted from the tournament. Without swiss, people could be waiting hours to join a 2v2 tournament just to get knocked out within 5 minutes.

    I think that many players would be pleased to try it out even with those problems ( and before of their partecipation, you could be able to gather data since now ).
    So, what about enabling the new game mode since now but also put a "disclaimer" in the dedicated menù?

    What i mean is:

    This is a new game mode and because it's still on alpha/beta there could be hours of waiting, bugs, and so on.
    Try it if you want knowing that everyting from long queues to unexpected events could happen
    We woul also appreciate feedbacks about the game mode ( and also any report which could concern bugs or malfunctions

    How about anything like this?

  • Emtiarbi.3281Emtiarbi.3281 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm ok with having the special event tournaments first and then the Swiss implementation later. As long as its something new i'm down my good friend! :)

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2018

    Dunno, not the first time ppl vote for something to come sooner and not perfect and then cry a river about its not being perfect, losing the hype and even don't come back when the problems are solved. If the waiting duration isn't excessive long i would wait, but your marketing team should maybe tell you something about if its better to release an unfinished product or wait longer and do it well. There are also psychological studies out, check some professional journals and study-papers for economics. Don't you have experience with a too early base game release already? I still have ppl in fl never came back to the game even with x-pac releases after they left the base game 5 months after release because of not enough endgame content...

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Any thoughts to having Tournaments at a more suitable time for us Australian Players?

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
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    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion - Playing till last friend leaves.

  • Hey folks. I wanted to thank you all for your feedback. We're talking things over here, taking your feedback into consideration. Hopefully will have some additional info on this soon.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • I say implement the tournaments as is, and add Swiss later. Giving the community something else would be very good even if it's unfinished.

    On a side note, my concerns with the 2v2 and 3v3 tournys (More so 2v2), would there be some system to help end games if fights become stalemate. I picture something like a Deadeye camping stealth for unhealthy amounts of time or a fight coming down to 2 support classes, there needs to be a way to help end it.

    And example would be WoW arena's dampening mechanic... Obviously that wouldn't directly translate but hopefully you get what I'm aiming at.

  • Emtiarbi.3281Emtiarbi.3281 Member ✭✭✭

    @Radicalz.3781 said:
    I say implement the tournaments as is, and add Swiss later. Giving the community something else would be very good even if it's unfinished.

    On a side note, my concerns with the 2v2 and 3v3 tournys (More so 2v2), would there be some system to help end games if fights become stalemate. I picture something like a Deadeye camping stealth for unhealthy amounts of time or a fight coming down to 2 support classes, there needs to be a way to help end it.

    And example would be WoW arena's dampening mechanic... Obviously that wouldn't directly translate but hopefully you get what I'm aiming at.

    Right now the Hall of the Mist have a mechanic to prevent stalemate. Courtyard need overtime mechanic like that tho.

  • Wolfric.9380Wolfric.9380 Member ✭✭✭

    When having 2:2 Q we need mode diversity and 2:2 and 4:4 maps. Tournamnets are like a topping for PvP players that can schedule playtime (which most GW2 players can´t do reliable). They want to jump in (preferable with a friend or two but also solo) when they have time. So we need ranked game modes that support this.

  • Jwake.7013Jwake.7013 Member ✭✭✭

    Probably a bit late to the party to be helpful but my mentality is;' Put it out when it's ready. If it's good people, will forget about the wait. If it's rushed and bad, doesn't matter how many improvements you make you may never get a good chunk of the player base to try it a second time months down the road to realize it's 'good' now.'

    I use that mainly when looking at games to get but works for big system changes/additions too. I think it applies here.

    "Freedom is something that you need to actively acquire. It's not something that's given with no strings attached. To be free means to take responsibility, and to prepare yourself for what's to come." ~Charles Beams~

  • Bring whatever you can to the game mode ASAP. My team mates and I need a competitive game mode. Unranked and very limited ATs are nowhere near enough to sustain us, especially with the awful state of ranked PvP this season we simply have nowhere to play and have even had to resort to organizing GvG skrims.

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