Future raid - new wingz?

Hi all,Bom dia!! Ni hao! :) Bonjour!I wonder if we have any insight or VIP 'leak' of how arena net will release future raid wings? (No rickroll pls)Currently we have 5 wings. Full clearing at reset takes 2.5 to 3 + hours.Are we going to have new wings added to current one just like how it works currently? It feels like it's already quite full on with full clear at reset for 5 wings.Also my intention for this post is to collect your ideas as raiders how you would like to see how the future new raids to go. I personally like shorter time spend on raid ??? .. 20 to 30 mins clear for average group for each wing is okay.. but if we keep having new wings it's gonna add more load .. gonna be quite a thing for full clear.
Id also like to know how arena net has in mind even if it is at planning stage. I don't think this is consider a leak xD it's more like open discussion ??

Sorry for my poor casual English :)Como estas. :)

I don't see any reason to care how much time a full clear takes. Nothing incentives you to full clear. In fact, once I broke 750 LI I stopped caring about how many kills I got at all. I want Anet to keep making new raid wings. But I would like to see them take some risks and make some really unique content. I'm disappointed that mounts have not played a role in any pof raids. I'm not saying I want 4 fights that are all heavily based around mounts, but I feel wing 6 being set in the desert would create opportunity where mounts would be fun.

I also think that at a fundamental level, I would like to see some more variety. Most raids are single target fight. How about a fight with 2 bosses simultaneously, maybe requiring coordination between 2 tanks. How about a fight that is actually difficult, but has no single important target. Just tons and tons of mobs, in waves perhaps. There could also be something like an endless mode in such a raid.

Anet has done a great job deliving content that was very much so needed, now that they have accomplished that, I would like to see them diversify more.

We have always known that this might become an issue eventually if they continued to release further wings. That is, if you consider not being able to clear every raid encounter in one sitting an issue. I am generally not a fan of capping any progression and thus wouldn't like to see an additional cap on the weekly LI just so people no longer feel the need to clear ever encounter avaible. This need to clear everything is one you empose on yourself.

Once you have your LIs for every leggy armor + the ones for the ring (I suppose we need about additional 50) there is no need to go full ham and clear every single encounter every week. Someone who constantly raided and has 800+ LIs also has enough asc gear/magnetite shards/drops from raid to gear additional chars and they will already have their favorite raid skins . So what's left? The relevant reward is 2/4 gold per week I'd rather play daily fractals on a 2nd acc because it'll bring more gold in shorter time. Plus, fracs are being rewarded on a daily basis. The reason why I'm still raiding is my guild and our community. Are we ranting sometimes? Of course but in the end we like to play together and meet again every week.

For further raids I wish less encounters with random mechanics. I also think greens at Dhuum were a terrible dev decision. The fight is manageable but that mechanic is meh, I don't know.

Oh yes, I think greens make Dhuum one of the worst encounters in the game (otherwise he'd be one of the best). Dear devs, please do not give a crucial role to certain mechanics (orbs) if you know that the game engine cannot properly handle these mechanics.

Time per all raid wings is a pretty poor way to design.

Ideally it's best to build the fight around what you feel is an optimal time for that fight to showcase what it needs. I.E Matt's many phases (Also one of the largest time pools for this reason).

If that means you have a 4 fight wing where each fight timer is 8 minutes, meaning an average group sans travel time and afk checks takes 25 minutes that's fine and dandy. Nothing is going to force these people to do all fights in 1 go, or even all fights from 1 wing in 1 go either.

There is no reason to consider time to clear all since noone is forced to clear all wings every week

Will it work if they make raid weekly like the fractal daily. Weekly random raid wings plus random repeatable raid CM.Only selected raid wings and CM give rewards.

Given the fact that 2 HoT wings required certain masteries (updrafts and Leyline) I think the incorporation of mounts should be something to look out for. especially the main 4 mounts since the griffon is a money magnet

I'm coming aware that different ppl play their raid diffetently.. some ppl join raid guild and do raids few times a week.. some does one clear once a week and all at one go. Also I hv seen many have stop playing ..or doesn't care about doing raid anymore..I hv done enough li myself but I'd love to keep doing raid as it is to keep it all going alive not just for myself but for the health of the game.

My guild hasn't been doing full clears since w5 came out. A large portion of that time is people missing (christmas holidays made raiding unreliable for about 2 months), unexpected illness, and people leaving. But overall, if you have limited time, it comes down to priority. We currently have not killed dhuum cm yet, so we basically do the double gold wing, then wing 5 up to dhuum, then practice dhuum cm.

Once dhuum cm is completed we will probably do something like w5, followed by the other double gold wing, then wing 1 (for ghostly rng dice roll), then as many remaining bosses as we have time for.

I mean te game has a plethora of dungeons and during their prime some ppl would run them for hours upon hours every day. I personally didnt, i would lose out on loot but i was fine with that.

Raids are once per week clear so u dont have to do all raids in a single day or flat out not do all raids if you dont want to. I believe the leinght of a current raid is fine in terms of each wings content and dificulty and i dont think its needed to reduce that.

@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Talindra.4958 said:feels weird if we miss a boss.

I know eu groups that dont clear everything in 1 day or flat out dont clear everything in 1 week. No reason to call out ppl and assume their skill or commitment.

Besides the record time for sloth i believe is set by NA guys.

@zealex.9410 said:

@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Talindra.4958 said:feels weird if we miss a boss.

Ofc theres groups from both sides that don't do raids like before, many people are bored of them already.But I'm talking about the active raiders, many of them do all 5 wings on Monday reset in 3h average, 30 min before raid reset the aerodrome is full with 3 instances or more.I was in NA before and on raid reset the place is empty, that's why I said in NA most people don't care about clearing all the bosses in 1 run.

As for future wings I prefer boss fights not boring events like the w5 river and statues.

@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:I was in NA before and on raid reset the place is empty, that's why I said in NA most people don't care about clearing all the bosses in 1 run.

As for future wings I prefer boss fights not boring events like the w5 river and statues.

That might be because its 2-4 AM Monday Morning depending on where you live in the US and some of us actually like having some sleep to go along with work/school etc....

@Talindra.4958 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Talindra.4958 said:feels weird if we miss a boss.

You have to consider the wide range of preferences and skill levels present in the community. People prefer different time frames, different hours, different speeds,different days, have a different mindset, some like to have breaks - others like to rush through, etc.Quite a few statics already had to split their clears into two days when Wing 5 was introduced as they were no longer able to clear everything in one sitting while my own static should be able to squeeze another wing and possibly even two into a three hour time frame if we tried hard and we are hardly the fastest group there is.

There could be a reward cap or a weekly reward system similar to the one present in Fractals. Something with increased rewards for a number of specific bosses and possibly overall reduced rewards so players no longer feel forced to kill absolutely everything. But which of the groups I mentioned should be taken as the benchmark?A benchmark to determine how many bosses are doable but not too much to handle?

The issue I take with such a proposal are the varied personal preferences I already mentioned. Quite a few players run with multiple statics over multiple accounts due to being limited to only raiding once per week otherwise (well, raiding and actually receiving proper rewards). Others are struggling to full clear as it is while yet another group simply can't be arsed to go with more than one sitting per week.I am part of the last group myself. Meaning that I might find myself in conflict with my static's preferences if more and more wings keep coming. Something that might lead to me having to look for a different group or having to dedicate more time to raiding in this game. I still wouldn't cap the rewards any further. Hell, there would have never been a weekly cap to begin with if it had been up to me and especially so during the early days when all we had was Wing 1.The game does not have to be changed to cater to my personal preferences or my private life. (Pretty much also why I do not agree with the "We need easy modes" crowd). I would leave things the way they are even if they number of wings ends up being doubled.Actually, that might be exactly what we need to change our mindset and the feeling that we have to clear everything once there are so many wings that nobody is able to clear them in one sitting anymore.

@"Talindra.4958" said:Hi all,Bom dia!! Ni hao! :) Bonjour!I wonder if we have any insight or VIP 'leak' of how arena net will release future raid wings? (No rickroll pls)Currently we have 5 wings. Full clearing at reset takes 2.5 to 3 + hours.Are we going to have new wings added to current one just like how it works currently? It feels like it's already quite full on with full clear at reset for 5 wings.Also my intention for this post is to collect your ideas as raiders how you would like to see how the future new raids to go. I personally like shorter time spend on raid ??? .. 20 to 30 mins clear for average group for each wing is okay.. but if we keep having new wings it's gonna add more load .. gonna be quite a thing for full clear.

Id also like to know how arena net has in mind even if it is at planning stage. I don't think this is consider a leak xD it's more like open discussion ??

Sorry for my poor casual English :)Como estas. :)

Give players incentive to play different wings each week. They already have a step in this direction with the Call of the Mists or whatever it was called. I think a more sophisticated system will be needed, as players currently still want to do a full clear every week, regardless of the differences in rewards. However, like you say the ever-increasing time to do a full clear at some point will make it impractical. It will be important to design a system which doesn't make players feel they're losing out on rewards while at the same time it only requires them to play a reasonable amount of time per week, leaving them free to either raid more should they choose to, or spend their time in other aspects of the game. A very simple (but crude) way to do this would be to only keep the standard rewards for the selected "weekly" wings, and reduce the rewards in the remaining wings to what you now get for killing an already killed boss. Obviously this will create a backlash in the community so I'm not suggesting it. I'm just giving an example how you can make players rotate which wings they play on a weekly basis and keep them occupied with raiding for a somewhat consistent time.

Thanks Henry et al for input .. keep them coming.

Btw malediktus only care about 0.0001 ap :p he doesn't care about full clear weekly. He plays efficiently.

As for me. I'm trying to minimise my time on raid so I can relax and do other stuff outside the game or whatever the rest of week. Relax mean I log in gw2 afk only the rest of week. I don't even do fractal any more unless friends pm to go..And yes the game does not hv to change to fit my lifestyle .. I'm just wondering about how it will be like.My group is clearing it at very normal speed a lot of group clearing it faster. It isn't competition but it's getting it done efficiently in shorter time possible. I don't raid whole week like some others which is fine as they enjoy doing it. I don't want to raid whole week..I raid once.. done and I don't do it again until next reset. I do not raid with guild.. it's a group of random pug gather together to raid... Raid finish.. we say thank you ..good bye and end. I know it isn't how it works to others. They raid multiple times helping other guildie etc.. that's fine too. But pls don't question how I play my game because that isn't why I started this post. Thanks.

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@"Talindra.4958" said:feels weird if we miss a boss.

lol why would i say that inb4 you mention there? Not even relevant to the topic.I never said anything about the ability to clear all the bosses, what i try to say is many people in EU want to full clear as fast as possible in 1 day.But Yes I agree theres no reason to clear all the bosses, I asked you what has age to do with anything.Our whole group and many other people like to clear all the bosses in 1 sitting and they don't like to leave it for another day so they have the rest of the week free to do whatever they want.And then you come and say that's not normal when many many groups do that in EU.That's why I mentioned its normal for NA not caring about full clear coz they not really into raids compared to EU.You can see the coming Raid tournament only has 1 NA guild and the rest is all EU, that shows the difference between NA raid and EU raid in general.

And our group does just fine, clear all 5 wings in 2h 40min is good enough, except this week we had a few delays but that happens sometimes. Don't even know why you making this personal and talk about my wife when I'm talking about the raid community in general not just our group, i never said anything about you but you just got salty i guess :)

Let's just focus on topic. What you like your future raid like.

I like the style of first 4 Wings. Forsaken Thicket & Bastion of the Penitent allow players to explore the area after each boss. Hall of Chains stepped away from the previous design. Hall of chains feels rushed to me... the same copy pasted ghosts in the starting area, lack of interesting dialogs, the areas have very little terrain to explore. Also Desmina has a lot of mechanics happening all at once. There should be at least a pre-event teasing some of them.

Now to the point.

I would like future raids to

• be released at least every 4-5 months (for Hall of Chains we waited over 10 months - during that time 3 raid guilds I was a part of disbanded cause of lack of new content),
• not have event style encounters (escort was fun though),
• have more explorable areas after each boss,
• start with an easier boss to incentivise players to dive in,
• have events between the encounters teasing boss mechanics (it was very well implemented in Spirit Vale),
• be a part of a bigger story (Forsaken Thicket),

@Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 said:lol why would i say that inb4 you mention there? Not even relevant to the topic.

To make clear I belong to the target audience. Some people are forgetting debaters in this forum again and again and again although they shouldn't.

I never said anything about the ability to clear all the bosses, what i try to say is many people in EU want to full clear as fast as possible in 1 day.Our whole group and many other people like to clear all the bosses in 1 sitting and they don't like to leave it for another day so they have the rest of the week free to do whatever they want.

Nah, that's just your assumption. A lot of guilds were already splitting their schedule with the introduction of W4 and the lfg also shows another picture than you want to paint here. ^^

And then you come and say that's not normal when many many groups do that in EU.

I didn't say it's not normal. L2read.

That's why I mentioned its normal for NA not caring about full clear coz they not really into raids compared to EU.

Again an assumption.

You can see the coming Raid tournament only has 1 NA guild and the rest is all EU, that shows the difference between NA raid and EU raid in general.

No correlation at all.

And our group does just fine, clear all 5 wings in 2h 40min is good enough, except this week we had a few delays but that happens sometimes. Don't even know why you making this personal and talk about my wife when I'm talking about the raid community in general not just our group, i never said anything about you but you just got salty i guess :)

I don't need to make anything personal. Just stated a fact and I haven't addressed it at you but rather on your wife as you should have noticed. Seems like you are the one salty here. :)

I'd rather wish they'd both fix several problems the game got through implementing raids and make raids more accessible first. We already have five raid-wings which deliver a sh*tload of story, lore and gameplay, but is reserved for a small minority of the playerbase because of rather unsophisticated game-design. It's not just that, it's also that several changes to gameplay which were necessary to make raids a thing have hurt the game rather harshly. The most obvious offender would be elite-specializations which - in ANets words - are mandatory to be able to successfully clear raids. Some changes I'd like to see would be:

• This game needs a thorough PvE-balance-overhaul to achieve a healthy balance in PvE-content. ANet especially needs to scrap the insane amount of boon-spamming which bled over to competitive game-modes leading to unnecessary rebalancing of boon-corruption (which wouldn't be a thing if the massive boon-spam wouldn't exist in the first place) and other factors. Boons should also be more evenly spread between professions and that also includes their actual applicability. The goal should be that no profession is truly mandatory and that there are at least two true alternatives to each role. That also includes a rebalancing of utility-skills since specializations like Chronomancer or Druid are in fact vastly overutilizied thus - beside their massive boon-spam - become the most mandatory specializations in PvE-content.
• The raid-reward-system needs to change. Currently, most people don't play the game for the actual gaming-experience anymore but rather because it has become a (second) job for them. The mentally deranged "monday-clear"-mentality is the best example of this. I'd rather wish the reward-system would be more like that of fractals. This could actually lead to "less job - more gaming-experience" and also to an enhanced accessibility to raiding-content due to daily raid-bosses. It shouldn't be a problem to add "raid-encryptions" for which you can buy keys with magnetite shards.
• I want a real aggro-system consisting of a mix between aggro-generating skills and damage. That way, more sophisticated encounters are possible and Chronomancers may have to spec more into damage than utilities/boon-spam to actually be able to keep aggro. It could also lead to more sophisticated gameplay alltogether since it would punish glass-cannon-builds harshly, thus balancing some too strong dps-classes like Weaver in a more creative way. A decent aggro-system could also incentivize actual group-play instead of just playing "besides each other" which is the current state of things since you don't have to vocally communicate for any raid-encounter.
• Increase accessibility to raiding-content by getting rid of the LI/KP-bull**it. Seriously, this has to stop. So-called "KPs" are meant to be guild-decorations and they should be treated as such. People shouldn't be hard-locked out of content because they haven't done it when it was released (Dhuum is the most prominent example here). Both LI and KP neither are a proof of skill nor are they a proof for the lack of skill. ANet needs to implement a decent skill-measure-system as a soft barrier to raiding-content rather than having the hard barrier set up by the community. That doesn't mean I want easy-mode-raids, but rather some kind of toned-down "story-mode"-raids in which people can learn mechanics having the learning-effect as the main-reward of "story-mode"-raids.
• The game needs a decent guild-browser to actually enable people to search for and find statics with means the game provides. The development of a decent guild-browser already seems mandatory considering the upcoming WvW-restructuring turning WvW into a blatant copy of BDOs actual "guild wars". Neither the forum nor the pathetic LFG-tool aren't helpful in this regard. Forums are generally only used by a small minority and the LFG-tool is far too restrictive.
• Fix your LFG-tool. It's pathetic that you can't customize your LFG regularly without constant relogging. It's especially difficult to get the team-composition you want if you are unable to adjust your LFG to the people who already joined your squad.

Bottom line is let ppl have their fun if you think u wont be able to clear them all in a week clear the ones you want.