[IDEAS] “Heroes” System + Masteries for GW2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[IDEAS] “Heroes” System + Masteries for GW2

Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭
edited April 5, 2018 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

General note: my concept of this is more akin to Star Wars: The Old Republic's (SWTOR) companion system than GW1's Heroes.

I had an idea for a “Heroes" system for PvE wherein you can "recruit" certain NPCs into Dragon's Watch and add one or two of them to your party at a time.

This seems like the kind of concept they could build a mastery system around for an expansion, with perks and bonuses to you and those heroes when they're in your party. Perhaps a “commander" mastery that makes their AI smarter as you level. A mastery to be able to edit/swap out their skills or weapons, maybe runes, etc. A mastery to improve their armor and/or weapon rating (rare to exotic, etc).

I could see a tactics system similar to that found in Dragon Age, were you can set up commands and prompts for your companions AI to follow when certain conditions arise.

Altogether this Heroes system would be very customizable, and ANet could have a core set of recruitable characters and perhaps release new ones periodically.

I'd err on the side of creating original companions for this though, or using non-Dragon’s Watch members as your "Heroes." Despite liking them a lot, it'd probably neuter their ability to do anything with them storywise (kill them off, leave Dragon's Watch, change form somehow, etc). The recruitable heroes can just be incidental and non-crucial to the plot of GW2, so they're just kind of tagging along with you.

Would totally love them to be voiced and have personalities and such though, maybe dialogue chains or personal quests you can take them on (maybe to get cooler armor skins for them, or better weapons, etc). Could be very interactive and fun.

I think there are a lot of existing characters that could work really well for this. Ones that were relevant at one time in the story, then kind of faded from the plot despite popularity.

Some ideas:
Malyck
Lord Faren
Phlunt
Sayeh al' Rajihd
Deborah
Livia
Sya
Surviving Destiny’s Edge members
Ogden Stonehealer
Any of the Sunspears
NPCs from your Order

It’s also an opportunity to include characters from NPC races and “lesser” races like Tengu, Largos, Skritt, Hylek, Quaggan, Kodan, Centaurs, etc. Heck, even some kind of liberated Awakened (bring back Demmi or Belinda!)

There’s also options from the custom personal story like your Charr’s warband, Asura’s crewe, etc. That might be harder to pull off, but I think there are so many NPCs that could be brought back for a much deserved second chance with this kind of feature.

Comments

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No. Heroes were already a mistake in GW1

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    why would you want such a system from a game play point of view? open world and the story is just one step above kirby games difficulty wise.

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:
    why would you want such a system from a game play point of view? open world and the story is just one step above kirby games difficulty wise.

    I enjoy companion systems.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svennis.3852 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    why would you want such a system from a game play point of view? open world and the story is just one step above kirby games difficulty wise.

    I enjoy companion systems.

    just because you 'like' companion systems doesn't mean it's a good idea.

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Svennis.3852 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    why would you want such a system from a game play point of view? open world and the story is just one step above kirby games difficulty wise.

    I enjoy companion systems.

    just because you 'like' companion systems doesn't mean it's a good idea.

    Just because you don’t doesn’t mean it isn’t.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svennis.3852 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Svennis.3852 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    why would you want such a system from a game play point of view? open world and the story is just one step above kirby games difficulty wise.

    I enjoy companion systems.

    just because you 'like' companion systems doesn't mean it's a good idea.

    Just because you don’t doesn’t mean it isn’t.

    i don't dislike your idea, i think it would be piontless

    • open world PvE is already way to easy.
    • everybody is perfectly self-proficient.
      so why from a game play perspective would you take a npc 'hero' with you.

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The 'companion' system totally changed Guild Wars when it was implemented way back when. It made Guild Wars a much more single-player game. I'm not sure that's the kind of game mechanic the Devs wish to highlight for Guild Wars 2. (There's already comments that GW2 is very solo-oriented.)
    /shrug

  • RoseofGilead.8907RoseofGilead.8907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As was indicated above, GW2 is already very solo-friendly (and some would argue that it's too solo-oriented). I, personally, really liked the Heroes/Henchmen of GW1, but I don't think adding them to GW2 while it's still very active would be the best thing for the game.

    Oh look. I have a signature now.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svennis.3852 said:
    I enjoy companion systems.

    create a Ranger and get a pet, there's your companion; or play GW1

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't think the OP was taking about open world PvE but I could be wrong

    I'd also like to see a customisable hero system similar to GW1's for story missions.

    Not for open world or fractals or whatever. Just story missions.

    This could mean that the team for a mission might include, for example, Cánach and Rytlock (required for story and dialogue purposes) and a couple of other hero slots that you could fill with your choice of heroes customised the way you want them to.

  • zidane.5194zidane.5194 Member ✭✭

    I wouldn't mind having a system like this. It would help with the content no one does. For example, I rarely see anyone doing dungeons. Even in my guild it is hard to find anyone that wants to do a dungeon. With this system, I could do a dungeon when I want to. As @Pifil.5193 pointed out with story missions. I still need some of the achievements from LS2. I can't find anyone that wants to do these either. So, yes. I support this idea.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2018

    I do prefer the solo play, always have since GW1. If I’m exploring the maps or doing story instances I’m generally not going to party up unless I have to for something like bounties and meta events. There’s not a lot of aspects of PvE that forces you to play with other people, and I don’t think this will change it that much.

    I loathed how much I needed a party to progress through the story of GW1 because either they were jerks, or they had no ability to coordinate and/or listen (I mained a monk).

    Like @zidane.5194 mentions, this would be nice for certain modes to make them more doable. I don’t imagine these heroes would enable you to solo a legendary enemy or anything, and they could very easily be blocked from certain situations/modes like mounts and gliders.

  • I don't think companions are necessary gameplay-wise. However they don't need to be. Look at games like Skyrim where companions are totally unneccessary and sometimes (stealth missions) even detremental. Still there are hundreds of companion mods. Companions fulfill a purpose besides gameplay (especially combat).

    • A good companion feels like... well... a companion. When you meet a random person in open world, they are a total stranger to you. Even if you happen to do an event together. It's just meet, part and forget. I bet you don't even remember what class the last random was you did a duo event with. In that sense a companion NPC feels more human than an actual human controlled character.
    • There are so many mechanics in GW2 that work really well if you have a partner who synergyzes with you. One class has a lot of combo fields and limited access to finishers while another has tons of finishers but no fields of their own. One class has a ton of minions while another has venoms to share with up to 5 allies. One class has a ton of clones that look exactly the same as them while... ok, let's not add another identical looking mesmer to that.

    Some notes about a good implementation:
    Combat:

    • Make a formation grid where the companion tries to stay at a certain position relative to the player (in front, behind, at the side, etc)
    • Combat formation is activated when either the player is in combat or has their weapon(s) drawn
    • The companion dodges when the player does (if enough stamina and not hindered otherwise) and tries to stay in formation
    • Skills are used following a priority list depending on situation. The player would be able to set priorities for several different situations including: Default, Affected-By-Hard-CC, Affected-By-Soft-CC, Affected-By-Damaging-Conditions, Low-Life, Player-Low-Life, Enemy-Low-Life, Player-Down, Far-From-Formation-Spot, Active-Enemy-Break-Bar, Enemy-Has-No-Break-Bar. The companion would pick the highest priority list that applies to the current situation and tries to use the highest priority skill. If no such skill is available the next list is chosen until the default list is reached.

    Traveling:

    • Include the option to have the companion run ahead of the player a bit. This means the companion shouldn't try to follow the player's position but rather a position to the front and slightly offset to either side. This is actually what makes a companion feel like a companion instead of a simple follower.
    • If no valid path can be found to the player and there is enough space around the player, the companion is teleported to the player's location. This solves the problem of jumping.

    Idle:

    • Make the companion wander around a bit and make them interact with their environment when the player is idle. Make them use chairs, crafting stations, talk to npcs or just sit on the ground.
    • Don't make idle obnoxious. Don't make the companion repeat the same line over and over or have them perform the same action over and over.

    Dialogue:

    • Make the companion comment on their environment. But add a rather long cooldown on each line so they don't repeat themselves too often.
    • Make the companion talk to other companions they meet.
    • Make the companion comment on the player's behavior like jumping around or running around for a long time.

    Diversity:
    I would love one personality for each race and gender. However I realise that this means 10 personalities from the get-go, which is, considering the insane amount of dialogue necessary for a good companion, too much. Maybe we could start out with one human male and female and add the other races step by step?

    No skin should be exclusive to gem-store rng boxes.
    What really happened with mount skins

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    @BunjiKugashira.9754 Thank you for expressing so eloquently what I did not. Your thoughts/ideas are wonderful.

    I can't say I've forged any lasting relationship with players in GW2 unless I knew them outside the game. I feel like a companion system helps people personally/emotionally invest in the game to some degree - which I realize will sound like complete bonk to some players, but for many it's very much true. And perhaps the GW1 companion system was flawed - personally I disagree - but you can't say those characters weren't pretty beloved. There's a reason why they are referenced in GW2 so frequently.

    In my mind, the value of a companion system is far less about combat and more about relationships and story, and the sense of connection a player develops with said companion. It's why I love roleplaying games in the first place, especially games like Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, KOTOR, BG2, etc. I think this kind of system appeals to a certain demographic, and one that's fairly prevalent in RPG games like GW2. Sure, it might not be meaningful to players that prefer PvP or WvW, but that's why elite specs are often so geared toward PvP/WvW while things like gliders, mounts, etc are there for PvE exploration and navigation.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Considering that this is an MMO, some interaction with other players is to be expected. Well over 90% of the game can be accomplished solo. Adding the ability to do the other 10% hinders the social aspect of the game.

  • Summarising the arguments I've read in this and other threads:

    Cons:

    • Reduces the need for player interaction
    • Gameplaywise there is no need
    • (Depending on implementation) Clutters maps
    • Affects content difficulty greatly

    Pros:

    • Satisfies an emotional need for human interaction better than random players do
    • Creates a new sink for gold, gems, mastery points
    • Allows for fidgeting with tons of synergies and tactics requiring multiple classes
    • Immersion
    • Unintrusive way to dump some lore on the player

    No skin should be exclusive to gem-store rng boxes.
    What really happened with mount skins

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sounds like a lot of development resources that could be better spent doing things the game needs.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    If anyone has played SWTOR, I am thinking more in line with that than what GW1 provided with Heroes.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Considering that this is an MMO, some interaction with other players is to be expected. Well over 90% of the game can be accomplished solo. Adding the ability to do the other 10% hinders the social aspect of the game.

    this

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    GW1 heroes' AI is like tree stumps, putting it into Gw2 will just open a whole can of worms

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The hostility in some comments here really makes me think.

    Heroes would allow people who have troubles with socializing or simply don't want to get involved into relationships with other players to complete group content. On their terms, builds and at speed they want to. That would obviously be disabled for PvP and WvW, however I would love to see such feature e.g. for dungeons - as a test. If it works we can make it part of fractals and even raids.

    Heroes could be gold/money sink on its own and with hero skins/armors anet can earn more money.

    Outside of development time... what are the cons? They have time to manually place chairs for people to sit so they can spend this time on other features aswell.

  • No please. I play mmos precisely because they are not single player rpgs with companions and parties to manage. I don't want an npc companion, but it would make you stronger so I would pretty much have no choice. Imagine if you could leave everybody behind in dragon age and go fight a boss or whatever without them, you'll basically die. Everything is balanced around that and future gw2 content would now be balanced around it basically making your actual character, weaker. Not to mention the tiny social aspect gets killed off where all you have is a chatbox now, as others have said.

    Old content and areas, achievements, dungeons, that you can't do solo... okay. If you can never find a single soul who doesn't also need/want it (I doubt this), there are better ways for devs to make adjustments with far less resource devotion.

  • Brother.1504Brother.1504 Member ✭✭✭

    The game already uses the npc henchmen as tools to advance the story mode narrative. Personally I would like to be able to change the “hero companion “ ai or swap out ones I like better. But I don’t get the impression that hero companion skills are balanced in the same way as player skills are. Heroes are ether underpowered or overpowered with only the concern to serve the script.

  • MarshallLaw.9260MarshallLaw.9260 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Consider that GW2 is designed to be an MMORPG.
    If you dislike playing with others, try out a standard RPG or just avoid aspects which specifically require other players.
    IMO there's no reason for ANet to accommodate for players who wish to be more withdrawn.

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