I... I think Condi Glint/Mallyx Potato counters Mesmer 1v1. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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I... I think Condi Glint/Mallyx Potato counters Mesmer 1v1.

Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited April 6, 2018 in PVP

Yes, I know, I'm insane; hear me out.

Carrion Glint/Mallyx puts out enough torment and chill to melt illusions.
Song of the Mists, namely Mallyx and Glint's flavors, apply burning and chilled/ slow and torment to nearby illusions on swap.
Pulsating Pestilence puts condis on illusions. namely confusion from the Mesmer themselves, but also cripple/burning if you've acquired it.
Herald line grants superspeed on stunbreak, which can let you escape shatters after being Power Locked.

I think revenant by nature might be able to shut mesmers down if specced properly.

The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

Comments

  • Kako.1930Kako.1930 Member ✭✭✭

    Have you been able to confirm this in practice? Just curious. I would love to be able to put my revenant to use again. :P

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2018

    @Kako.1930 said:
    Have you been able to confirm this in practice? Just curious. I would love to be able to put my revenant to use again. :P

    I need to duel a couple hundred mesmers. I have fought a few power mesmers and one that was originally power and flipped to condi. Power mesmers melted from rapid torment application, Condi ones lasted longer and won about 50/50, but only by slim margins. Im sure someone with a bit more experience as rev would do better.

    Im running Carrion, Scavenger runes. Mace/Axe and SW/Shield. Incovation/Corruption/Herald.

    this is a theory at the moment but I'll look at numbers today and see if this is a legitimate counterbuild. It sure feels like it.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kako.1930 said:
    Have you been able to confirm this in practice? Just curious. I would love to be able to put my revenant to use again. :P

    No. There's useless and then there's condi rev, somewhere far below potato tier. OP is trippin, any 1v1 build should be able to mop the floor with mallyx rev

  • @witcher.3197 said:
    No. There's useless and then there's condi rev, somewhere far below potato tier. OP is trippin, any 1v1 build should be able to mop the floor with mallyx rev

    Agreed that I am insane but I'll test tonight.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @witcher.3197 said:
    No. There's useless and then there's condi rev, somewhere far below potato tier. OP is trippin, any 1v1 build should be able to mop the floor with mallyx rev

    Agreed that I am insane but I'll test tonight.

    Could you also list what builds you test against and how well they work? It'd be interesting to see what builds are impacted by it's presence.

  • @Ario.8964 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @witcher.3197 said:
    No. There's useless and then there's condi rev, somewhere far below potato tier. OP is trippin, any 1v1 build should be able to mop the floor with mallyx rev

    Agreed that I am insane but I'll test tonight.

    Could you also list what builds you test against and how well they work? It'd be interesting to see what builds are impacted by it's presence.

    Rogerthat

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2018

    That combo sucks and you will be like the last person to try it.

    Condi rev has like the worst condi damage of all condi specs in a pvp environment by a good margin.

    Post some videos of you getting 2 shot repeatedly by some semi-decent mes for us. I need a chuckle.

    Or I’ll just come farm you on another subpar (but less subpar) rev build if you want.

    @witcher.3197 said:

    @Kako.1930 said:
    Have you been able to confirm this in practice? Just curious. I would love to be able to put my revenant to use again. :P

    No. There's useless and then there's condi rev, somewhere far below potato tier. OP is trippin, any 1v1 build should be able to mop the floor with mallyx rev

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    why not staff instead of sw/sh? more cc and block and evade

  • @messiah.1908 said:
    why not staff instead of sw/sh? more cc and block and evade

    true. I'll look at this too.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2018

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Yes, I know, I'm insane; hear me out.

    Carrion Glint/Mallyx puts out enough torment and chill to melt illusions.
    Song of the Mists, namely Mallyx and Glint's flavors, apply burning and chilled/ slow and torment to nearby illusions on swap.
    Pulsating Pestilence puts condis on illusions. namely confusion from the Mesmer themselves, but also cripple/burning if you've acquired it.
    Herald line grants superspeed on stunbreak, which can let you escape shatters after being Power Locked.

    I think revenant by nature might be able to shut mesmers down if specced properly.

    I play condi herald. Ironically you put condi rev weakness as a strength. Condi rev does not have the aoe pressure to fight mirage. The time it takes to build enough aoe damage is way too long to counter clones quickly. And no way to counter staff clones.

    And condi rev works better against power Mesmer anyway.

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2018

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    That combo sucks and you will be like the last person to try it.

    Condi rev has like the worst condi damage of all condi specs in a pvp environment by a good margin.

    Post some videos of you getting 2 shot repeatedly by some semi-decent mes for us. I need a chuckle.

    Or I’ll just come farm you on another subpar (but less subpar) rev build if you want.

    Aggressive but ok~

    Just trying to help you out with some realistic ideas of what happens to that build. Your ideas are not new. I ran that prior to POF, condi rev damage nerfs, and some of the trait changes with moderate success. You have no disengage for one. For example, Mes can sit stealth when you try to swap into slow or just simply avoid it and burst you immediately after with no way for you to recover. It has quite a low range and it’s not long lasting to begin with.

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    That combo sucks and you will be like the last person to try it.

    Condi rev has like the worst condi damage of all condi specs in a pvp environment by a good margin.

    Post some videos of you getting 2 shot repeatedly by some semi-decent mes for us. I need a chuckle.

    Or I’ll just come farm you on another subpar (but less subpar) rev build if you want.

    Aggressive but ok~

    i'd ignore him. he's salty for whatever reason. he might have been farmed by a power flamethrower engineer recently....oh yeah. that's most likely me. XD

    Brah at least talk some factuals man. Stop the spread of useless information/misinformation.

    It helps nobody.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Brah at least talk some factuals man. Stop the spread of useless information/misinformation.

    It helps nobody.

    s-s-s-salt.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2018

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Yes, I know, I'm insane; hear me out.

    Carrion Glint/Mallyx puts out enough torment and chill to melt illusions.
    Song of the Mists, namely Mallyx and Glint's flavors, apply burning and chilled/ slow and torment to nearby illusions on swap.
    Pulsating Pestilence puts condis on illusions. namely confusion from the Mesmer themselves, but also cripple/burning if you've acquired it.
    Herald line grants superspeed on stunbreak, which can let you escape shatters after being Power Locked.

    I think revenant by nature might be able to shut mesmers down if specced properly.

    I'm not sure if you are trolling or not but i can help with tests :') xD (if u are EU kappa)

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2018

    Shield is only situationally good against mesmer ( they lack unblockable utility ) but bad against too many other things. The loss of mobility you would have gotten from Axe or sword means any decent thief can very easily outplay you, and the self root lets aoe spam classes setup against you. S/S or S/A overall seem to have better matchups.

    Mallyx is in a better spot post buff but still seriously lacks any sort of real defensive utility.

  • Allarius.5670Allarius.5670 Member ✭✭✭

    If you are going down this route, perhaps give some permutation of Burn Guard (or one of its elite specs) a try. I'd think that if there is anything that grows stronger with target spam, it would be Permeating Wrath.

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2018

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    That combo sucks and you will be like the last person to try it.

    Condi rev has like the worst condi damage of all condi specs in a pvp environment by a good margin.

    Post some videos of you getting 2 shot repeatedly by some semi-decent mes for us. I need a chuckle.

    Or I’ll just come farm you on another subpar (but less subpar) rev build if you want.

    Aggressive but ok~

    Just trying to help you out with some realistic ideas of what happens to that build. Your ideas are not new. I ran that prior to POF, condi rev damage nerfs, and some of the trait changes with moderate success. You have no disengage for one. For example, Mes can sit stealth when you try to swap into slow or just simply avoid it and burst you immediately after with no way for you to recover. It has quite a low range and it’s not long lasting to begin with.

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    That combo sucks and you will be like the last person to try it.

    Condi rev has like the worst condi damage of all condi specs in a pvp environment by a good margin.

    Post some videos of you getting 2 shot repeatedly by some semi-decent mes for us. I need a chuckle.

    Or I’ll just come farm you on another subpar (but less subpar) rev build if you want.

    Aggressive but ok~

    i'd ignore him. he's salty for whatever reason. he might have been farmed by a power flamethrower engineer recently....oh yeah. that's most likely me. XD

    Brah at least talk some factuals man. Stop the spread of useless information/misinformation.

    It helps nobody.

    Want to drop facts? You get farmed by lots of people every day. Don't try to act all high and mighty because you main a subpar class. At this point, anything is worth testing for rev. Shutting it down without even testing it is just being narrow minded. EVEN if it's bad on paper

    Here come the emotional responses...

    There are very few people in the game that beat me period, even with builds that counter rev. Let alone farm me, lol. My ranking and game play since season 1 says quite the opposite.

    Honestly what are you talking about?

    This build has already been tried by other people such as myself. It doesn’t work.

    It’s worse than subpar.

    Rev had to get nerfed to the point of being definitively worse than every class overall for me to not outright farm the majority of the names that have appeared in top 100 since s5 lmao.

  • BeLZedaR.4790BeLZedaR.4790 Member ✭✭✭

    I played said build a lot and reached legend solo with it in duoq seasons. Though I did not play it a lot since pof, as it was unplayable.

    Tbh after the patch its not unusable. Does it COUNTER mesmer? Absolutely not due to gutting of retribution and lack of stability. A couple of properly placed interrupts (mesmer has plenty of) and you’re dead. This build is also heavily boon reliant and most mesmers run disenchanter. It can kitten you up really bad. You could win though if you outplay them, but I’d say mes is at least favored if played well.

    Also this build has the same issue it always had which is that thief kitten on you. 5k crits from stolen skill twice or even 4 times vs s/d means u will be out of dodges sooner than you’d like and die. And they steal your might.
    With retribution now useless means you don’t have stab so d/p in specific deletes you due to your long and telegraphed animations. (Headshot says hi)

    This generally means if you try to be a duelist as this you cannot survive thief +1 and you end up feeding. That is even if this build does beat mes (it probably doesn’t).

    But the main pain point this build has is scourge. Necro was already a tough matchup in hot because your defense vs condi is resistance, and you do condi damage. Necros have corrupts and transfers. A good necro was a skillful matchup.
    A good scourge now means you lose.
    Which makes you unable to be in teamfight role.

    Also you obviously ain’t a roamer since you don’t take shiro. So your mobility is not amazing. And you’re not really a support...

    Which leaves this build suboptimal at best at any role.

    But hey I still think its fun as hell. That’s something.

    Unyielding Legend
    Make condi rev great again!
    Say no to braindead high reward builds

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I wasn't very constructive before so I'll try to be:

    Mallyx rev is just a mess.

    For starters, it can't handle direct damage, which means it's at a disadventage against 8 of the 9 classes atm. The only way it can deal with conditions is resistace, a boon, and the only condi class in the meta is the best one at boon removal. So it's just all around terrible against anything you can imagine.

    It's a melee build without sustain, clunky and low damage, and without the evade/block frames of a power rev.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    condi herald is actually extremely strong in WvW as a solo roamer.
    They are practically unbeatable if you are a power build.
    Condi builds will strugle against them too with their high resistance uptime.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2018

    Checking in here. I'm taking video where I can to compile. It's working (I think? I could be just getting lucky), also vs warriors if you're willing to be the absolute scummiest in kiting. Every time they stun you you get superspeed to kite if you havent burned your 7's/swap/glintheal.

    I'll fiddle with the quality so people can see logs if possible. If it is too much trouble I'll just show the build and the matches once I have what I consider reasonable proof.

    It's not just pressbuttons to win like some specs that end up being defined counters, you need to know rev and where to put your buttons.

    @messiah.1908 said:
    why not staff instead of sw/sh? more cc and block and evade

    No go on this. I fell back to Sword shield because sword 3 and axe 4 help you stick to your target for Song of the Mists procs.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • thatdarnkatz.7168thatdarnkatz.7168 Member ✭✭✭

    Condi Mirage is definitely a counter to the meta power staff (Chronophantasma Disenchanter). I have fought other condi classes, and when not built with the correct amulet, it can melt if you screw up. Thank you for actually noticing, nad making a constructive thread about this instead of just another complain thread. I'm putting a ton of time into learning that build on the chrono to learn what counters it as it's the number one build I've gotten complaints on, but am ont unkillable unless my opponents don't have condis, or I mess up and eat them.

  • @thatdarnkatz.7168 said:
    Condi Mirage is definitely a counter to the meta power staff (Chronophantasma Disenchanter). I have fought other condi classes, and when not built with the correct amulet, it can melt if you screw up. Thank you for actually noticing, nad making a constructive thread about this instead of just another complain thread. I'm putting a ton of time into learning that build on the chrono to learn what counters it as it's the number one build I've gotten complaints on, but am ont unkillable unless my opponents don't have condis, or I mess up and eat them.

    Update:

    Having an incredibly hard time with staff mesmers, so I question this.

    Still working on this where I can and losing a whole lot of matches, but the ones where I was not outplayed from the start seem to be lost because of stealth plays in order to heal.

    I don't think it's a hard counter, but it does work. grinding it some more.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • thatdarnkatz.7168thatdarnkatz.7168 Member ✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @thatdarnkatz.7168 said:
    Condi Mirage is definitely a counter to the meta power staff (Chronophantasma Disenchanter). I have fought other condi classes, and when not built with the correct amulet, it can melt if you screw up. Thank you for actually noticing, nad making a constructive thread about this instead of just another complain thread. I'm putting a ton of time into learning that build on the chrono to learn what counters it as it's the number one build I've gotten complaints on, but am ont unkillable unless my opponents don't have condis, or I mess up and eat them.

    Update:

    Having an incredibly hard time with staff mesmers, so I question this.

    Still working on this where I can and losing a whole lot of matches, but the ones where I was not outplayed from the start seem to be lost because of stealth plays in order to heal.

    I don't think it's a hard counter, but it does work. grinding it some more.

    Try out custom arenas to get 1v1's quick and easier. If you are trying to counter Mirage, then they tend to have a lot of condi cleanse on dodge, jaunt, and a few other skills. Chronos will fall easier, though it will still take practice.

  • Acandis.3250Acandis.3250 Member ✭✭
    edited April 9, 2018

    UPDATE:
    This is now the new version of the build I'm running: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAscmn3geNSuQvJRboHlsP0kS4I6SJ4EtrklTlh9ommKNgEewO93nH-jpxHQBXrMwAPEAA4EAIu9HC4DAwfHBAA

    Taking Marauder Amulet for the extra vit, and making up for lost concentration by taking Runes of Leadership.

    This seems to work fine because the extra vit helps me live in situations where I wouldn't have before and the loss of a bit of concentration isn't enough to affect the nature of the build.


    Disclaimer: I am not a good rev player.

    So, this thread inspired me to try a lot of different things. Eventually I ended up with this build: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAscmn3geNSuQvJRboHlsP0kS4I6SJ4EtrklTlxO93nn9ommKNgEeA-jpxHQB6rMQAfAAD8QAoh9HAwJAwfHBAA.

    Explaining my odd choices:

    • Seeker's Amulet: I chose Seeker's to get high Resistance uptime, with good crit and power. I do not think it is worth using a condi amulet since condi rev has very low impact in the current meta. Power damage, on the other hand, is still decent. I also tried Diviner's Amulet but the extra boon duration from this did not make up for the lack of crit.
    • Spontaneous Destruction: Initially, I was inclined to play Bolstered Anguish but I ended up this this trait instead since it depends only on hitting an enemy with boons. This is good for two reasons: 1) This skill will never miss; 2) I can get a bit of resistance while I am in Glint.
    • Song of the Mists: I was initially skeptical about this choice, but after playing it a bunch I found that Call of the Demon is actually very strong. It hits pretty hard with a power amulet, and the 3s of AoE Slow is absolutely no joke. The one thing I don't like about this trait, is that the AoE range is extremely low, meaning you have to try and always land legend swap on top of the target I want to aggress.

    I believe the rest of my choices are fairly self explanatory.

    Notes:

    • As far as my testing goes (several games in plat 2/3) this build does extremely well vs. condi mesmer (and decently well vs. other condi classes), but has a really hard time vs anything else.
    • Given the above, I think there might exist a slight variation of this build that can stand up to other classes.
  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2018

    My capturing was originally done in a trash format so I am redoing -everything- in order to make it look proper. In the meanwhile, I've picked a couple of wins and losses versus the Mesmers I could get ahold of (as well as a warrior because surprise, it works on melee wars too) to just show.

    I'll do it better and make a compilation vid as I go.

    Disclaimers:

    • I'm bad at rev
    • In no way do I believe these matches are indicative of lack of skill by my opponents, or my skill as a Herald.
    • I lost a billion times

    A Chrono vs. Herald
    Vs. Staff Mirage
    Vs. Warrior
    Vs. Mirage
    Vs. Aforementioned Mirage

    Thoughts so far are I'm either bad or its too hard to perform consistently. I'm going to keep grinding it though.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • Wolfric.9380Wolfric.9380 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 9, 2018

    I actually wondered why my doughter, while she is not realy trained (about 100 matches), performs quite good against scourges and mesmers when i with2k on ele have troubles against those ... And she uses carrion, leadership mallyx/glint melee build ... she just goes down nearly helpless against bow ranger/druid/soulbeast ... It seems a bit volatile and she dies on mistakes despite a large HP pool. good to think about diffrent builds :-).
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRApX8un3geNSuQvJRboHlsP0kS4I6SJ4EtrklTlJNgDWgdpmuyO92nH-jpRHQBh7BAQu9HQSZABcQAC4RAAAnAAA
    It seems to do good damage.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    My capturing was originally done in a trash format so I am redoing -everything- in order to make it look proper. In the meanwhile, I've picked a couple of wins and losses versus the Mesmers I could get ahold of (as well as a warrior because surprise, it works on melee wars too) to just show.

    I'll do it better and make a compilation vid as I go.

    Disclaimers:

    • I'm bad at rev
    • In no way do I believe these matches are indicative of lack of skill by my opponents, or my skill as a Herald.
    • I lost a billion times

    A Chrono vs. Herald
    Vs. Staff Mirage
    Vs. Warrior
    Vs. Mirage
    Vs. Aforementioned Mirage

    I knew you would find away to save us all. But kitten mesmer meta need to go ahead and die.

    Thoughts so far are I'm either bad or its too hard to perform consistently. I'm going to keep grinding it though.

    That just means your profession is not full of cheese and requires actually skill. By skill i mean (you cant afford to make careless mistakes more than once at most twice per fight.)