Facing the Truth left me with so many questions... (spoilers abound)

So, the first question is less lore and more behind the scenes: is the voice of Kormir in GW2 the same one from Nightfall? I've never been good at recognising voices, and it's been a decade since I last played it.

Next, if they had stripped Balthazar of his power, does that mean there's only Five Gods now? Or did they put his power into a new Sixth, and if so, who is that? Tell us, Kormir! Don't just disappear back to your... home planet or whatever!

I'm pretty upset over it. It was rather bad writing.

It was an obvious attempt at writing the gods out of the story as quick as they could and have that as a "closure" with them leaving Tyria (which is Kormir's home) forever and permanently. Balthazar we just kill off.

You're just left with even more questions since the way it was dealt with was absolutely horrible.

@Rognik.2579 said:So, the first question is less lore and more behind the scenes: is the voice of Kormir in GW2 the same one from Nightfall? I've never been good at recognising voices, and it's been a decade since I last played it.

Next, if they had stripped Balthazar of his power, does that mean there's only Five Gods now? Or did they put his power into a new Sixth, and if so, who is that? Tell us, Kormir! Don't just disappear back to your... home planet or whatever!

It's not Kormir's voice from GW1.

that entire sequence was annoying af, not only does she replay one of the many moments from Nightfall that everyone hates her for but she's as useless in Path of Fire as she was in Nightfall.

The only thing that slightly bothered me is HOW Balth got Lyssa's mirror, which is just never explained.

Also I appreciate that they took all his power away so he wasn't a threat anymore but if you're gonna chain an ex-God up maybe put him somewhere safe so he can't be stumbled upon and freed.

Kormir also heavily implies the Five came BACK to the mists to find Balth but when he revealed himself to Tyria in his powerful glory, decided it was too cataclysmic to deal with and left.

Ok fine, I get that - but you dimmed his power in the first place so why can't you now? Unless the first time involved some cataclysmic event elsewhere that she just won't tell us about.

Speaking of things she won't tell us about - her secret room proves interesting. Kormir has a journal that states that she fully well knows that Tyria's doom is inevitable. It also states that the Gods are actually needed elsewhere.

My memory of it may be foggy since I did it a good 12 hours ago but her journal does provide an interesting insight.

@Killerbot.8645 said:that entire sequence was annoying af, not only does she replay one of the many moments from Nightfall that everyone hates her for but she's as useless in Path of Fire as she was in Nightfall.

Speak for yourself. As someone who actually paid attention to the Nightfall story and understood that she was the only one capable of absorbing Abaddon's power (and the only one it would make sense for), I was happy with what happened. But I agree, everything that happened in PoF is disappointing.

The gods don't want to fight Balthazar because they don't want a repeat of what happened when they fought Abaddon..... but they had already succesfully stripped Balthazar of his godhood and chained him up. Obvious plot hole is obvious.

How in the world would there have been a cataclysmic event if the 5 other gods fought balthazar if he was stripped of his power? Like are they not able to control their own magic or something?

Balthazar just absorbed the Magic of two Elder Dragons which Kormir says are beyond the Gods. Balthazar was almost if not completely back to his original power level during Path of Fire. A battle between Kormir(Divine God Magic) and Balthazar(Elder Dragon Magic plus Bloodstone Magic) during Path of Fire would be cataclysmic.

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:Balthazar just absorbed the Magic of two Elder Dragons which Kormir says are beyond the Gods. Balthazar was almost if not completely back to his original power level during Path of Fire. A battle between Kormir(Divine God Magic) and Balthazar(Elder Dragon Magic plus Bloodstone Magic) during Path of Fire would be cataclysmic.Um, when did he absorb the magic of ANY dragon? He was in the Mists until Rytlock freed him in Season 2, and he wasn't back until Heart of Thorns, so Balthazar was still in the Mists when Zhaitan died. Now, he could easily have been out and about for Mordremoth's death, but I don't think we have any reason think that he absorbed any of that magic.

@Rognik.2579 said:

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:Balthazar just absorbed the Magic of two Elder Dragons which Kormir says are beyond the Gods. Balthazar was almost if not completely back to his original power level during Path of Fire. A battle between Kormir(Divine God Magic) and Balthazar(Elder Dragon Magic plus Bloodstone Magic) during Path of Fire would be cataclysmic.Um, when did he absorb the magic of ANY dragon? He was in the Mists until Rytlock freed him in Season 2, and he wasn't back until Heart of Thorns, so Balthazar was still in the Mists when Zhaitan died. Now, he could easily have been out and about for Mordremoth's death, but I don't think we have any reason think that he absorbed any of that magic.

I think they are confused in thinking that he absorbed some of Primodus' magic and Jornagg's magic. Which I think happened, but yeah. He didn't get the entirety, which is why he is after Kalk. But we don't know how much he got. And despite his godhood being taken away, he's pretty damn powerful. Gotta at least question how much magic he did take and how much of an effect it is having.

@Disig.7169 said:

@Rognik.2579 said:

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:Balthazar just absorbed the Magic of two Elder Dragons which Kormir says are beyond the Gods. Balthazar was almost if not completely back to his original power level during Path of Fire. A battle between Kormir(Divine God Magic) and Balthazar(Elder Dragon Magic plus Bloodstone Magic) during Path of Fire would be cataclysmic.Um, when did he absorb the magic of ANY dragon? He was in the Mists until Rytlock freed him in Season 2, and he wasn't back until Heart of Thorns, so Balthazar was still in the Mists when Zhaitan died. Now, he could easily have been out and about for Mordremoth's death, but I don't think we have any reason think that he absorbed any of that magic.

I was referring to the Magic he got from Primordius and Jormag. If the Magic on top of the Bloodstone did infact make him close to the level of Kormir a battle between the two of them would probably be catastrophic.

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:Balthazar just absorbed the Magic of two Elder Dragons which Kormir says are beyond the Gods. Balthazar was almost if not completely back to his original power level during Path of Fire. A battle between Kormir(Divine God Magic) and Balthazar(Elder Dragon Magic plus Bloodstone Magic) during Path of Fire would be cataclysmic.

And yet a measly commander nobody with an old magical sword from a dead king was able to solo and kill the 2 elder dragon fueled god.

The story is crap, there's no saving it.

They turned Balthazar into a psychopath for no reason other than write off the gods.

@Zenith.7301 said:

@"Mickey Frogeater.1470" said:Balthazar just absorbed the Magic of two Elder Dragons which Kormir says are beyond the Gods. Balthazar was almost if not completely back to his original power level during Path of Fire. A battle between Kormir(Divine God Magic) and Balthazar(Elder Dragon Magic plus Bloodstone Magic) during Path of Fire would be cataclysmic.

TURNED Balthazar into a psychopath? Dude, take a second to look up a Factions-era character called Kaolai. Balthazar was always a psychopath. You just didn't know it. Likewise, the Gods were written out all the way back in Nightfall. Remember, their whole spiel about retreating from the world to "let humans control their own fate"? This is all just a continuation of that. Kormir stuck around longer than the others, and finally decided now to cut all ties for good.

Also, something folks on this thread should bear in mind: a clash between between two gods would cause much, much more devastation than one god versus a bunch of mortals. We already have precedent for that. The battle between Abaddon and the other Five created a massive, permanent scar on Tyria, but his shenanigans in Nightfall didn't cause any damage that couldn't eventually be reversed. It's like... using a shotgun for a job that requires a scalpel. It gets messy.

Honestly, having just left this story step, I think they've been very on-the-ball with their lore so far. We're quibbling over some pretty minor bumps in the road compared to plot holes from earlier in this game's lifespan. You're entitled to your opinion, but in mine, we're dealing with the sort of hiccups that show up in any story that's gone on for as long as this one. Nothing out of the ordinary, and certainly a dramatic improvement over what came before.

Personally, I'm more concerned with whether they'll stick the landing. That's where they've always had the most trouble. Endings.

Why the hell does Kasmeer and other humans still call them "gods" when they admit themselves they are inferior against Elder Dragons? And we even kill one of them like what? I sincerely hope we get something about this with humans denying them after what happened in PoF and maybe a civil war, that would be interesting but I'm sure they won't because it's too much work...

Well maybe because the understanding of what a god is is different in tyria then in our world. They have by no means the believe that their gods are allmighty or all-benevolent. On contrary killing off a god happend in the past twice. The first time was also by a group of mortals ( grenth and his seven buddies).

So in Tyria Gods are treated like really powerful spirits. You do some rituals to get on their good site and ask them for help if needed. But thats it.

Or compare it to the gods in ancient times. Like the greek or romans one. I think that is a good aproximation

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:Balthazar just absorbed the Magic of two Elder Dragons which Kormir says are beyond the Gods. Balthazar was almost if not completely back to his original power level during Path of Fire. A battle between Kormir(Divine God Magic) and Balthazar(Elder Dragon Magic plus Bloodstone Magic) during Path of Fire would be cataclysmic.

This is precisely what it is. It is a mockery of old lore.

@Amineo.8951 said:Why the kitten does Kasmeer and other humans still call them "gods" when they admit themselves they are inferior against Elder Dragons? And we even kill one of them like what? I sincerely hope we get something about this with humans denying them after what happened in PoF and maybe a civil war, that would be interesting but I'm sure they won't because it's too much work...

Kormir admits they're different as forces - the elder dragons are more primal in their nature. I do not agree the gods are in any way inferior to the Elder Dragons and if you look at the game's story you'll see why.Balthazar - by himself - if left alone and not interfered with by us ( The PC and his friends) would have most likely killed one elder dragon after already weakening two. And that's just ONE god. Imagine if ALL the gods went forward and wanted to destroy the dragons - they would stand no chance.

The Gods are powerful because they can interact with and use everything the mortal races can produce - on top of that they're also incredibly powerful. Don't forget WE destroyed Mordremoth and Zaithan using modest, mortal means. Do you not think the six could have used the same methods?Do you not think Kormir knew what Mordremoth's weakness was?

There's also a part where Kormir says that Balhtazar might get killed by the dragon or Balthazar might kill it - so there's a clear possiblity that the god wins the fight. That doesn't sound like inferior to me.Also - the gods - being reasonable beings ( in the most part) could fight TOGETHER while the dragons have never shown the capacity to ally themselves with one another and usually engage in conflict with each other every chance they get.

maybe a stupid question but where exactly did the gods go? we met kormir in her library but that was already in the mists right? where did eh go after she left? even deeper into the mists? a different planet? or am i missing something?

The one thing that I do not understand is: If Balthazar succeeds in killing Kralkatorrik, it would be the end of Tyria. So if the gods would help us fight him they would have to literally destroy Tyria to be as bad as a succeeding Balthazar. Anything between no Damage and 99% Destruction would be better than letting him prevail. And since Kormir is the goddess of knowledge she should know that. In other words she is either to scared to face him or just does not care. Why won't she give us some Information on how to beat him, like a weakness or anything alike? Except telling us, that we can do it, she is of no help at all.

@daslicer.7586 said:

maybe a stupid question but where exactly did the gods go? we met kormir in her library but that was already in the mists right? where did eh go after she left? even deeper into the mists? a different planet? or am i missing something?

The library was already in the Mists and you did not miss anything, nowhere it is said where they are going.

The writers did not really want to write about the human gods. I don't know what happened here - if the higher-ups at Anet forced them to write gods or if they thought it was a good idea but then regretted the decision - but the fact is, they did not want to write about this part of lore, and oh boy does it show in the main story.

When you complete the achievement for finding Kormir's hidden room, you find her personal ramblings. In there it is clearly stated that the Six knew, long ago, that Tyria had no salvation, and that the only options were to either destroy the dragons and destroy Tyria, or let the Dragons destroy everything they built ad infinitum. This alone is pretty bad storytelling, because the Forgotten themselves tried to break the cycle with Kralkatorrik (as per the kitten next mission after that), which points out to a solution without even killing it, if you combine this info with Snaff being able to grapple with the Elder Dragon's mind. Taimi could even come up with a way using the Forgotten knowledge since she's already our resident Ex Machina.

Secondly, and the worst offender to be found inside that kitten instance, is that the Six, apparently, have more pressing matters elsewhere, which is their reason for leaving definitely and to somewhere unimaginably far. This is grave, very grave, so grave. The whole story of Guild Wars centers around humans being brought into Tyria by the Six. The gods (in the sense that they are very powerful beings and not "creators" necessarily) went through a lot of work, a lot, like Genesis level of work, to bring humanity to Tyria. If the devs do not explain what is more important than this, that they would leave us at they mercy of Elder Dragons they know are going to crush us, well it's just the solid proof that they did not ever want to write Guild Wars 2 but had to put that in the title.

Furthermore, Kormir explains Balthazar wanted to conquer the dragons and absorb their power. Then why the kitten did he ever stand against Abbadon? Abbadon wanted magic running rampant from the start. He was the god of secrets and knowledge and probably understood the consequences. That Balthazar would not agree with his ways and after thousands of years have a change of mind for absolute no apparent reason, is just lousy storytelling.

@maxwelgm.4315 said:Furthermore, Kormir explains Balthazar wanted to conquer the dragons and absorb their power. Then why the kitten did he ever stand against Abbadon? Abbadon wanted magic running rampant from the start. He was the god of secrets and knowledge and probably understood the consequences. That Balthazar would not agree with his ways and after thousands of years have a change of mind for absolute no apparent reason, is just lousy storytelling.

Balthazar likely only disagreed with Abaddon attacking the other Gods not his plan for Magic.

I think it was in one of the books, but Kormir mentions something about not exactly being human anymore. I think she even went so far as to say she doesn't feel human anymore. So it's not really surprising she would peace out with the rest of the gods. The gods haven't exactly been protectors of Tyria throughout time, so also not a big surprise that they'd leave.

I had a good laugh at Kormir throwing shade at Rytlock for releasing Balthazar. Maybe she forgot about her part in releasing Abaddon :)

Lyssa left Tyria... I still hope Anise and Jennah are Lyssa and we will find out that they disappeared from the palace.. Hope must still go on...

The OP asked a good question that I was wondering too. Kormir said that Balthazar was no longer the God of war. So who is the God of war? Did another God absorb the role and if so who? Did someone else completely take up the role and of so who?

@Arden.7480 said:Lyssa left Tyria... I still hope Anise and Jennah are Lyssa and we will find out that they disappeared from the palace.. Hope must still go on...

Based on what Kormir said, Lyssa and the other gods left a very long time ago - before GW2's timeframe. Keep in mind that they would have had that council that Balthazar raged during at least 200 years ago when Primordus began to truly wake up. That was when they decided to leave entirely (why, who knows, hard to say). Kormir was the only one who lingered. So Lyssa, etc. were likely gone entirely when "the gods went silent".