Viper's still effective for Fractals?

I've been away for a while, and haven't played since the "condition rework" / when sword 4 got changed. Are Viper's stats still the way to go for PvE fractals? I took a look at MetaBattle and they seem to suggest so, buut it's MetaBattle, so it could be rubbish for all they know. Answers on a postcard!

Fractals are easier with burst damage.Condi burst damage got nerfed.Power Rev numbers are weak.

...Profit.

Hmm weak even on bosses? How long does it take condition builds to ramp up their dps? I suppose I ought to just give it a go but if it's just horrid, then I may as well wait for the inevitable reversal of the balance pendulum. It took me ages to farm my Viper's gear and I don't fancy playing power Rev anymore, it's the only build I ever played on Rev before Renegade got released.

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Hmm weak even on bosses? How long does it take condition builds to ramp up their dps? I suppose I ought to just give it a go but if it's just horrid, then I may as well wait for the inevitable reversal of the balance pendulum. It took me ages to farm my Viper's gear and I don't fancy playing power Rev anymore, it's the only build I ever played on Rev before Renegade got released.

You can still make a Berserker to go Condi on so your gear isn't wasted.

I haven't seen a single condi rev in months. It's not the worst thing you can do, simply not top tier.

tl;dr sure, Viper's still works, if for no other reason than the current "optimum" builds are probably 20-50% more effective than anyone needs for daily fractals. Viper's remains a go-to prefix for most condi builds (and when it's not, it's a strong alternative)

Some specifics, the short of which is that DT prefers power builds for fractals and Snow Crows likes condi builds just fine for raids.

DT's builds include

• Meta with two power chronos (one support, one hybrid), power spellbreaker, power weaver, & minstrel/cleric druid. This is mean for the fastest possible clearing times, so it's not designed for the vast majority of players.
• Five "great" builds, that are equally four power + a power druid. These are designed for skilled players, who aren't rushing. Total theoretical DPS: ~150k
• Five "good" builds that are all condi & I think that four will be viper's (there's also a power DD build). Collectively the five condi builds do ~150k DPS.

Their meta builds are designed to be synergistic with each other, while the great and good ones aren't and assume the party is getting the necessary buffs from somewhere. That's a primary reason that the power builds get "great" while the condi ones get "good."

Snow Crows doesn't have their fractal builds up yet. For raids, their DPS builds are:

• All power: elementalist
• All condi: necro
• Mixed: mesmer (one condi, not preferred), thief (one condi, preferred), ranger (two condi), engineer (one of each), warrior (one condi, preferred), guardian (one condi, preferred), revenant (one of each).

Their benchmarks include great DPS on large targets from a couple of condi builds (berserker and renegade) and on small target, the list is a mix.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:tl;dr sure, Viper's still works, if for no other reason than the current "optimum" builds are probably 20-50% more effective than anyone needs for daily fractals. Viper's remains a go-to prefix for most condi builds (and when it's not, it's a strong alternative)

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Some specifics, the short of which is that DT prefers power builds for fractals and Snow Crows likes condi builds just fine for raids.

DT's builds include

• Meta with two power chronos (one support, one hybrid), power spellbreaker, power weaver, & minstrel/cleric druid. This is mean for the fastest possible clearing times, so it's not designed for the vast majority of players.
• Five "great" builds, that are equally four power + a power druid. These are designed for skilled players, who aren't rushing. Total theoretical DPS: ~150k
• Five "good" builds that are all condi & I think that four will be viper's (there's also a power DD build). Collectively the five condi builds do ~150k DPS.

Their meta builds are designed to be synergistic with each other, while the great and good ones aren't and assume the party is getting the necessary buffs from somewhere. That's a primary reason that the power builds get "great" while the condi ones get "good."

Snow Crows doesn't have their fractal builds up yet. For raids, their DPS builds are:

• All power: elementalist
• All condi: necro
• Mixed: mesmer (one condi, not preferred), thief (one condi, preferred), ranger (two condi), engineer (one of each), warrior (one condi, preferred), guardian (one condi, preferred), revenant (one of each).

Their benchmarks include great DPS on large targets from a couple of condi builds (berserker and renegade) and on small target, the list is a mix.

Thanks, that's pretty helpful. I'll just continue to run Viper's for now as I've only just entered T4, so having a "good" build is fine as long as I'm not just trying to phone it in.

@"nosleepdemon.1368" said:I've been away for a while, and haven't played since the "condition rework" / when sword 4 got changed. Are Viper's stats still the way to go for PvE fractals? I took a look at MetaBattle and they seem to suggest so, buut it's MetaBattle, so it could be rubbish for all they know. Answers on a postcard!

Yes vipers is still the way to go on condi, just condi rev is not atm. For open PvE i still think its the most fun weaponset to use, but in group content you are just stuck with mallyx to be effective. Its nit bad but not really optimal either dmg wise.