Why do mesmers get so many powerful grandmaster traits?

1. Elusive Mind - The stunbreak + condi cleanse on dodge that everyone complains about. Frees up a utility skill slot when other classes have to sacrifice a slot to take stunbreak skills that are usually 30~40s+ cds while mirages basically get a free stunbreak every 9s with sigil of energy (you can weapon swap while cced & sigil of energy procs through exhaustion). All of this is assuming you're foolish enough get hit by ccs in the first place when you have access to other evade/invul/block/teleport skills on top of your normal dodges.

2. Chronophantasma (aka "AI spam") - I actually hate this one the most. How is anyone going to have enough dodges when you basically have to waste 2 dodges on a single phantasm attack? Yes, all phantasms (even shield 4) do considerable damage/pressure that you'd be stupid to just face tank them. Just go test it out on a heavy golemn and watch how all of them can shave off at least 20% hp in 1 hit. Of course, they still got their shatters and ccs that you have to dodge. Add Signet of the Ether + Continuum Split to that gl dodging them all even if you're a mirage or thief. This bullshit is what's making Chronos currently the god of 1v1. At least give this trait some ICD in pvp or make phantasms LESS DURABLE (not more) than clones so there's some options to counter them such as killing them before they can attack. All mesmer has to do is press every single phantasms off cd and shatter randomly every now and then with this trait.

3. Bountiful Disillusionment - Instant cast stability spam + other boons, specifically, the insta/perma 25 might from a single Mind Wrack when you combine it with Chronophantasma and the trait that transfers phantasm's boon to you when they expire. I think this one by itself is actually ok, but it just adds salt to the wound when it gets used with the above 2 traits that already make Mirages/Chronos so strong.

The only broken powerful traits I can remember for other classes was Necro's Weakening Shroud (and maybe Sand Savant, but that can be argued as scourges become significantly weaker without it), Thief's Swindler's Equilibrium, and Druid's Celestial Shadow before they were nerfed. Rarely do other classes get more than 1 strong traits. Usually they need to be taken with several other traits to be good (eg. Engi's Purity of Purpose, Weaver's Woven Stride).

hello Mesmers Wars 2 & potato btw.

This is a team game not a duel one. Cannot 1v1? Bring a teammate.

@paShadoWn.5723 said:This is a team game not a duel one. Cannot 1v1? Bring a teammate.

Ever heard of a side noder?

memesers. !

Haha, Mesmer has always had really good traits across the board. It isn’t just the GM traits.

A big problem with game balance has always been that some classes seem to be cursed with a lack of inspiration / passion from the developers and are relegated to terrible synergy and awful traits. Mesmer is not one of those classes.

I really don’t think that this is a problem with Mesmer outside of a few specific traits. I do think the lack of synergetic and powerful traits is an issue with other classes though.

I cannot believe that people are complaining about bountiful disillusionment of all traits. BD is fine, its honestly a bit on the weak side. It just has very powerful synergy with a certain trait combination, but that does not mean that BD itself is overpowered.

@OriOri.8724 said:I cannot believe that people are complaining about bountiful disillusionment of all traits. BD is fine, its honestly a bit on the weak side. It just has very powerful synergy with a certain trait combination, but that does not mean that BD itself is overpowered.

Ever thought why people doesnt make threads about other trash grandmaster traits that mesmer has ?:D

Umm. All classes have loads of really strong traits at all levels of their respective specialisations.

I will admit that Mesmer has lots of traits that are powerful but also actually interesting to use. Blimey it's a real snore fest on some of the other classes.

@OriOri.8724 said:I cannot believe that people are complaining about bountiful disillusionment of all traits. BD is fine, its honestly a bit on the weak side. It just has very powerful synergy with a certain trait combination, but that does not mean that BD itself is overpowered.

This so much.

BD on its own is meh (same with the whole of Chaos tbh).

It's only insane synergy with other traits and skills that cause the problem, especially since the introduction of new traits and mechanics (including making alacrity a boon) - and that synergy needs to be carefully teased apart at its source (ie not the Chaos trait line).

@Curunen.8729 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:I cannot believe that people are complaining about bountiful disillusionment of all traits. BD is fine, its honestly a bit on the weak side. It just has very powerful synergy with a certain trait combination, but that does not mean that BD itself is overpowered.

Yup! We just need to keep explaining what the source of the issues is whenever this pops up though. The root of the problem is not BD, all BD does is highlight that a problem exists somewhere.

@Simonoly.4352 said:Umm. All classes have loads of really strong traits at all levels of their respective specialisations.

I will admit that Mesmer has lots of traits that are powerful but also actually interesting to use. Blimey it's a real snore fest on some of the other classes.

Sure, all classes have good and bad traits, but I can't really think of any single trait (let alone several) that's on the level as the traits I've listed on classes such as Guardian, Revenant, and Elementalist.

@paShadoWn.5723 said:This is a team game not a duel one. Cannot 1v1? Bring a teammate.

This is the same argument people used to defend bunker ventari revs, bunker turret engineers, scourges, cele eles, bunker guards, current druids and basically everything else that requires you to devote two people just to fight one person.

Just wanted to point that out. If it was a team game, it would be balanced around 1v1 so a certain class didnt immediately cause a balancing issue when capping nodes.

It's not a strong argument to protect overpowered specs.

@OriOri.8724 said:I cannot believe that people are complaining about bountiful disillusionment of all traits. BD is fine, its honestly a bit on the weak side. It just has very powerful synergy with a certain trait combination, but that does not mean that BD itself is overpowered.

People are hyped up and angry because chrono and mirage are busted, esp with the recent rework that allows multiple illusion casts, and all traits the class owns are now being scrutinized. People are finding that the traits give too much for too little, especially compared to some of the other classes that have seen multiple nerfs in the spirit of removing passive play and such.

The problem is with chrono and mirage benefiting multiple times over from really good synergy, and the majority of their traitlines being good for general use instead of being borderline useless except for specific situations.

Hopefully Anet does not overnerf. the problem lies with the elites, not with core. start from the top, then shave closer to core as you need.

The only sad thing is that they have thrown away another PvP season. And the real problem lies to when it is rotated correctly there is hardly a counter for it, at worst case it will escape. Ideally there should be classes countering each other and never 'gifted' ones. That would produce a healthy competitive environment and no complaints.

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@paShadoWn.5723 said:This is a team game not a duel one. Cannot 1v1? Bring a teammate.

@OriOri.8724 said:I cannot believe that people are complaining about bountiful disillusionment of all traits. BD is fine, its honestly a bit on the weak side. It just has very powerful synergy with a certain trait combination, but that does not mean that BD itself is overpowered.

LOL you're responding to me as if I am not aware of these problems. The problems arisefor seeral reasons, but BD is just a symptom. This trait is fine as is. Its the interaction between several other traits that needs addressing (along wiht several other things), but BD is fine

@OriOri.8724 said:I cannot believe that people are complaining about bountiful disillusionment of all traits. BD is fine, its honestly a bit on the weak side. It just has very powerful synergy with a certain trait combination, but that does not mean that BD itself is overpowered.

Pretty sure those 3 were few examples of many dont act like mesmer does not have other strong GM traits.

Fact of the matter is mesmer e specs are busted af. People know it. People dont like them the only people who see mesmer as 100% a ok are the mesmer mains themselves

@paShadoWn.5723 said:This is a team game not a duel one. Cannot 1v1? Bring a teammate.

Says who? The pvp is only team related because anet simply has not added a 1v1 mode. Even as a team game you still come into alot of 1v1 situation at capture points etc.If anet added a 1v1 mode mesmers would dominate them because of how broken they become in a 1v1 situation.

As we have seen in the past (Berserker, Power Rev), Anet tends to overnerf "op" classes until they are complete trash. Sadly they are too stubborn to make at least small reverts. It took like ages until power rev is finally playable again.

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"OriOri.8724" said:I cannot believe that people are complaining about bountiful disillusionment of all traits. BD is fine, its honestly a bit on the weak side. It just has very powerful synergy with a certain trait combination, but that does not mean that BD itself is overpowered.

You've been on a massive "nerf mesmer" campaign lately, but 90% of your targetted nerfs are in the wrong damn place. They nerf what isn't overpowered, turn stuff into useless skills and traits, and don't do one damn thing to address the source of the problems you have with the class. Please point out to me where I said that mesmer has no strong GM traits?

Fact of the matter is that you don't understand why mesmer is overperforming. You want to nerf the wrong things, which will result in nothing happening to actually balance mesmer. Also, you keep trying to call out "mesmer mains" as claiming mesmer is balanced, yet we are the ones that beg Anet to nerf parts of the class long before anyone even realizes how stupidly powerful it is. Kinda ironic, no? Considering we were the ones begging Anet to fix EM before it was even introduced, along with a bunch of other problems. Yet when Anet listens to non mesmer players and nerfs stuff in a way that doesn't address any of the reasons for mesmer overperforming, somehow its our fault, and we are people that think mesmer is ok?

@"OriOri.8724" said:

You've been on a massive "nerf mesmer" campaign lately, but 90% of your targetted nerfs are in the wrong kitten place. They nerf what isn't overpowered, turn stuff into useless skills and traits, and don't do one kitten thing to address the source of the problems you have with the class. Please point out to me where I said that mesmer has no strong GM traits?

Incorrect the community has been on a massive "nerf mesmer" campaign I dont make the post I just leave my 2 cents based on what I see and experience in the game.Its truely not my fault, or yours for that matter that people dont like a profession thats gotten so many hand outs from the devs not realizing how broken it would be. Then to make matters wose they leave it like that and mark it off as "Working as intended" despite how many people do not enjoy going against it.

Ive made maybe a dozen comments just here and there but ive never started a post out right demanding a nerf for mesmer thats a post you wont find from me so you can correct yourself on that one.Moving on

Fact of the matter is that you don't understand why mesmer is overperforming. You want to nerf the wrong things, which will result in nothing happening to actually balance mesmer. Also, you keep trying to call out "mesmer mains" as claiming mesmer is balanced, yet we are the ones that beg Anet to nerf parts of the class long before anyone even realizes how stupidly powerful it is. Kinda ironic, no? Considering we were the ones begging Anet to fix EM before it was even introduced, along with a bunch of other problems. Yet when Anet listens to non mesmer players and nerfs stuff in a way that doesn't address any of the reasons for mesmer overperforming, somehow its our fault, and we are people that think mesmer is ok?

The fact of the matter is the people who provide the skills to mesmer dont understand why its overperforming. Devs simply cannot assume what players will do with the content once its released. Players find ways to abuse tools given to them ideally mesmer is in a spot where tools it has in a new players hands are fair yet those same tools in a player who has a few hundred hours on mesmers is extremely broken.

Usually at any point ive seen a mesmer ask for self nerfs it was followed by self wanted buffs to replace "said nerfs" that would break the profession even more. Please dont try to white knight like "we only ask for nerfs"

@Dreddo.9865 said:The only sad thing is that they have thrown away another PvP season. And the real problem lies to when it is rotated correctly there is hardly a counter for it, at worst case it will escape. Ideally there should be classes countering each other and never 'gifted' ones. That would produce a healthy competitive environment and no complaints.

This.I don't care if everything is a little bit broken, or some traits are strong against other classess. As long as classes can be built to shut down the spec, that's a good place to be.

yea, why do they get this so much overpowered traits and why did they get complet makeover while not asking for it and other classes and specs who are not even viable in pvp get nothing ... why

@Arkantos.7460 said:yea, why do they get this so much overpowered traits and why did they get complet makeover while not asking for it and other classes and specs who are not even viable in pvp get nothing ... why

To be fair, the Mesmer revamp did indeed make the class much easier and more intuitive to play.

I think the problem is that Mesmer was already S-tier in all 3 game modes, and that caused this revamp ultimately to be a balance disaster. We probably have a significant balance pass coming to Mesmer and this amounts to a large amount of time and resources that the developers could have spent on underperforming classes.

I think this ultimately is a pet project / class passion gone very wrong. Mesmer did not need this many resources throw at it.

@Julius Seizure.4985 said:

@Arkantos.7460 said:yea, why do they get this so much overpowered traits and why did they get complet makeover while not asking for it and other classes and specs who are not even viable in pvp get nothing ... why

indeed , so they traits synergizedvery well togetherand renegade icerazors ire dont get cold dps to not synergy with mallyx traitline ... a bit ... hey meyba it could get viable ... a bitits so much frustrating seeing mesma already OP did get more s-tier after rework .... so much clones and stealth and blurr and block and evade and all again ... very balanced