Now that the raid tournament is over.....

I really hope, that epidemic doesnt get nerfed.

But first of all:The guilds stacked necromancers and bounced epi.And achieved rlly high dps numbers

Now my concern.If you nerf epi, that sure would delete necromancer from any raid. So it would need a lot of buffs to compete with the other classes.

I would like to see some more adjustments.

Its ok, having ele being top dps on big hitbox. Maybe you can give him a little bit more.But i dont like, that its also top dps on small hitbox

So making maybe holosmith top dps for small hitbox would rlly make a nice shift in my opinion.That wouldnt make pugs just stack eles for every boss, but allow all classes to shine at some encounters.

Or they could just nerf ele and mesmer, nerf epi and buff just about everything else from every profession other than ele and mesmer, voilà everybody is on equal footing and they can concentrate on pvp / new content :P

@BestWurstinTown.8521 said:Or they could just nerf ele and mesmer, nerf epi and buff just about everything else from every profession other than ele and mesmer, voilà everybody is on equal footing and they can concentrate on pvp / new content :P

Why should a class with 11k hp have same dps as class with 19k hp?

Why should a build with no cc output have same dps as build with 1k breakbar damage potential?

Why should a build with harder rotation have same dps as build which has to spam (up to) 5 buttons off cd?

Why should a build which doesnt offer anything but dps have same dps as build which gives aoe buffs to whole party/squad?

That being said, the only classes that actually need some buffs are engi (condi), thief (to weaver level) and maybe DH. Since wvw/pvp splits exist now, power rev, reaper and ranger buffs certainly wouldnt hurt.

Necro in current implementation is a definition of a hard to optimally play/organize class. Meaning that if you play it normally you'll get mediocre damage, but if you learn how to bounce epi you get the most potential damage output. If players complain how its dps is low then they obviously havent learned how to utilize their class and we've all seen necro's true damage potential in this tournament (and other speed clear videos).

First, this was a speed-clearing tournament. We can learn absolutely nothing about balance for the game by relying solely on the comps used during the "Elitist Raiding Party." It's a celebration of efficiency, not of viability. It's mathematically implausible that all profs are going to have a build that works for this sort of situation.

Second, there's evidence from GW2 Raidar, as well as ANet's own data that tells us that raids can be cleared with a far larger variety of comps than listed on SC's website (or QT's before it, or MetaBattle). Those, too, are focused on maximum damage from very skilled players under optimal combat scenarios (notably: everyone is playing at the same level).

And finally, in an interesting game, it seems perfectly sensible for some professions to be incredibly strong solo (e.g. necros) and weaker for group play.

@steki.1478 said:

@BestWurstinTown.8521 said:Or they could just nerf ele and mesmer, nerf epi and buff just about everything else from every profession other than ele and mesmer, voilà everybody is on equal footing and they can concentrate on pvp / new content :P

when I said buff everything about the other classes I meant it. If they really want no holy trinity and to live the idea of bring the player not the profession, then every class should be able to fulfill several roles in endgame content. So many professions have weapons that have extremely niche uses, buff those things to do something else and voilà you can now give cc to profs that didn't have it etc. which would really open up raid composition or fractal speedrunning compositions. Currently chronos and druids are just way too important.I don't think every spec should be able to do everything, nor do I think that dps should be 100% equal but you can't really claim that the system currently is in a good spot. Many professions could use some love. While I don't care that much tbh I still think that it's lame how raid setups are pretty much set in stone from the get-go.

Also you simply CANNOT claim that necro is fine because of epi bouncing...that skill to me is the very definition of shoddy mechanics in a game. Class stacking in MMOs is simply the worst thing that can happen and a profession that basically asks for it is just bad, end of story.

Variety of class composition was used. Heresy or creativity? :lol:

Only way everything is balanced is if everything is the same. End of story. You can clear with any proffesion but there will always be best for the job. Thats what you could see at that tournament. No matter how you buff stuff there will be always one "weaver" one "chrono" one "druid" and one "warrior" that will be best at their role

@Nimon.7840 said:I really hope, that epidemic doesnt get nerfed.

But first of all:The guilds stacked necromancers and bounced epi.And achieved rlly high dps numbers

Now my concern.If you nerf epi, that sure would delete necromancer from any raid. So it would need a lot of buffs to compete with the other classes.

I would like to see some more adjustments.

Its ok, having ele being top dps on big hitbox. Maybe you can give him a little bit more.But i dont like, that its also top dps on small hitbox

So making maybe holosmith top dps for small hitbox would rlly make a nice shift in my opinion.That wouldnt make pugs just stack eles for every boss, but allow all classes to shine at some encounters.

Honestly, I don't think any changes are needed right now in the dps compartment. The balance is fine - Epi has tremendous potential, but requires teamwork and the existence of adds. Weaver is exceptionally strong, but extremely reliant on teamwork as well, albeit in a different manner. Mirage, Holo and DH offer more reliable alternatives at the cost of somewhat lower dps. It's all good really. What could actually use some tweaks is the support balance. We never saw a banned Chrono or a Druid, although we did see heal revs and tempests used on throwaway encounters and we saw banner warriors using all three available specs.

@BestWurstinTown.8521 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@BestWurstinTown.8521 said:Or they could just nerf ele and mesmer, nerf epi and buff just about everything else from every profession other than ele and mesmer, voilà everybody is on equal footing and they can concentrate on pvp / new content :P

GW2 is made up of 3 game modes, the profession we see stacked in raid pve is typically dog shit everywhere else, it requires massive amount of effort to stay alive let alone kill anything with a brain , something different from a scripted AI mob.

Wanna talk about stacked class?

Look I get the whole balance talk but currently ele is nothing more than a raid class that still require support and training to be good at, outside of raid the whole class is a waste of effort; fractal and raids are the only instances where people actively ask you to reroll ele

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@BestWurstinTown.8521 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@BestWurstinTown.8521 said:Or they could just nerf ele and mesmer, nerf epi and buff just about everything else from every profession other than ele and mesmer, voilà everybody is on equal footing and they can concentrate on pvp / new content :P

Wanna know something funny? If you are a good ele player, or at least know, where to stand in a wvw zergfight, its so freaking easy to outdps everyone else. Even necros.

But people are just not confident enough of playing ele in wvw.If you would stack eles there and support them properly, a group of 8 eles will delete the enemy zerg

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@BestWurstinTown.8521 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@BestWurstinTown.8521 said:Or they could just nerf ele and mesmer, nerf epi and buff just about everything else from every profession other than ele and mesmer, voilà everybody is on equal footing and they can concentrate on pvp / new content :P

Yeah show us videos of this zerg of 8 eles deleting full scourge zergs, you used a raid video to ask for nerfs on a class useless in pvp and weak in wvw...but you claim otherwise so come up with video proof ...like mine where zergs in wvw are made up by 30 necros/10 firebrand and 10 spellbreakers...where's the OP ele?

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@BestWurstinTown.8521 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@BestWurstinTown.8521 said:Or they could just nerf ele and mesmer, nerf epi and buff just about everything else from every profession other than ele and mesmer, voilà everybody is on equal footing and they can concentrate on pvp / new content :P

Even if we use the raid tournament as a reference, Necromancers were preferred over Elementalists on several fights.

On the WvW side, Weaver is a good complement to your zerg, if you have the space for it. I love playing backline staff weaver, and yeah, I'm usually among the top dps in zerg fights. But you can't replace the scourges efficiently. The weaver has great burst, but not nearly as much pressure.

@"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:Only way everything is balanced is if everything is the same. End of story. You can clear with any proffesion but there will always be best for the job. Thats what you could see at that tournament. No matter how you buff stuff there will be always one "weaver" one "chrono" one "druid" and one "warrior" that will be best at their role

Underrated comment.

This is why PvE balancing on the numbers level is hopeless; there's always going to be an optimization made and it's always going to be the best and something will always be left out.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:Only way everything is balanced is if everything is the same. End of story. You can clear with any proffesion but there will always be best for the job. Thats what you could see at that tournament. No matter how you buff stuff there will be always one "weaver" one "chrono" one "druid" and one "warrior" that will be best at their role

Thats true but we can ger "warrior" treatment. Since 2 out of 4 roles in raidschave best in slot on specific encounters we dont have to nerf druid/chrono but we can add something that makes their replacements slightli better at sone encounters while still playable on others. This i think is only way to bring more diversity

@"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:Only way everything is balanced is if everything is the same. End of story. You can clear with any proffesion but there will always be best for the job. Thats what you could see at that tournament. No matter how you buff stuff there will be always one "weaver" one "chrono" one "druid" and one "warrior" that will be best at their role

Such bromide is pointless. While there will obviously always be some differences between classes (and, consequently, "best" classes), you can do much better than ANet when it comes to closing the gaps between best and rest.

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:Only way everything is balanced is if everything is the same. End of story. You can clear with any proffesion but there will always be best for the job. Thats what you could see at that tournament. No matter how you buff stuff there will be always one "weaver" one "chrono" one "druid" and one "warrior" that will be best at their role

I never said you cannot do better. There is always something that cam be better. I think that anet improved balance by alot.

Right now you can clear with almost everything but some/most players require goid comp. After your changes there will still be players that require best teamcomp.

Yes, this is partly a community issue. However, I'm pretty confident that the amount of people requiring that "gold comp" would shrink dramatically if ANet finally did their job with regard to balancing.

@"CptAurellian.9537" said:Yes, this is partly a community issue. However, I'm pretty confident that the amount of people requiring that "gold comp" would shrink dramatically if ANet finally did their job with regard to balancing.

That would means players would be able to use an ele in pvp/wvw from which is effectively barred for lack of balance. You may want to take a look at metabattle https://metabattle.com/wiki/Elementalist....yes there is no balance in gw2

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"CptAurellian.9537" said:Yes, this is partly a community issue. However, I'm pretty confident that the amount of people requiring that "gold comp" would shrink dramatically if ANet finally did their job with regard to balancing.

Well i dont know, what builds exist at metabattle right now. But ele is pretty viable in wvw zergs.If you wanna see something useless, look at reaper.If you can manage to get some, and all of them time their spike, they will delete some of the enemy zerg.Letting some crazy meteors rain on them (8-10k hits per meteor)

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"CptAurellian.9537" said:Yes, this is partly a community issue. However, I'm pretty confident that the amount of people requiring that "gold comp" would shrink dramatically if ANet finally did their job with regard to balancing.

Weaver is Viable in WvW, but Weaver is PoF.. If you look at HoT specs.. how many are now used in WvW zergs? i suspect 2 out of 9.. Chronomancer and Herald, everything else has been rendered to useless (Reaper,Tempest,Dh) because Firebrand,Spellbreaker,Scourge,Weaver are way better so comparing Reaper which is HoT to Weaver which is PoF its obvious that the newer specs will come out better than the previous specs to make PoF sell more, but If you want to compare Necro with Ele in WvW, then Necro is the easier choice because its faceroll..