[Spoiler] Future Taimi...?

After re-playing the last LWS4 mission, I have a feeling that Taimi might transform herself into a cybernetic construct.

Why? She is intrigued by Blish's being a golem now, stating that it would keep him "safe from life's frailties" and that he was "beautiful" because of it.

To me, it sounds like she was flirting with the idea of "enhancing" her existence that way, since she had to fight her whole life to overcome her physical frailty with the power of her genius mind (e.g., building Scruffy, who then almost killed her, so she might now consider a "better" option). Her sometimes extreme arrogance could be her covering up her own insecurities and fears, and the way she stated repeatedly how annoyed she was (not in those words, but still) by the fact that everyone is constantly checking on her... Well, she obviously wants more independence and could come to the (crazy) conclusion that transferring her mind into a machine might be the way to achieve that.

What do you think?

P.S. I am not a big fan of the character, but I am still curious to see what the future holds for her.

We are the Taimi. Your biological and cultural distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.

Imagine taimi being able to copy and paste her mind/intellect into different constructions.Well, why not having a mechanical greatsword that speaks with taimi´s voice and just doesn´t stop talking ?^^

The consensus seems to be in agreement with you, OP.

@"Ashantara.8731" said:After re-playing the last LWS4 mission, I have a feeling that Taimi might transform herself into a cybernetic construct.

Why? She is intrigued by Blish's being a golem now, stating that it would keep him "safe from life frailties" and that he was "beautiful" because of it.

To me, it sounds like she was flirting with the idea of "enhancing" her existence that way, since she had to fight her whole life to overcome her physical frailty with the power of her genius mind (e.g., building Scruffy, who then almost killed her, so she might now consider a "better" option). Her sometimes extreme arrogance could be her covering up her own insecurities and fears, and the way she stated repeatedly how annoyed she was (not in those words, but still) by the fact that everyone is constantly checking on her... Well, she obviously wants more independence and could come to the (crazy) conclusion that transferring her mind into a machine might be the way to achieve that.

What do you think?

P.S. I am not a big fan of the character, but I am still curious to see what the future holds for her.

Yeah, but I don't like this idea, which is very likely to come true. Why? Because it's what Inquest do, and if she wants to become a golem, I will call her a coward, because running away from problems the nature gave her, very brutally, so if she will put her consciousness into a golem, then she will ruin all the work of "good" asura like Snaff or Zojja- the greatest asura in my opinion.

Snaff's intelligence was much better than Taimi's. That his ideas were even used by the Inquest- Kudu. Why didn't he put his consciousness into a golem? We could see such thing in personal story, so it wasn't a brand new thing. Does it mean he didn't value his intelligence and didn't want to extend his life because he didn't want to die? I think this showed that he was brave enough to listen to his reason. He was clever enough to not do such thing, and BE genius, not somebody that just play being a genius.

EDIT: And welcome back, haven't seen you for a while. :)

Interesting to see that people agree this might become a possibility. Hmmm... makes for some creepy story-telling, although I do not like the idea, either. Has an aftertaste of "Scarlet 2.0", because I see this conscious decision somehow connected to evil megalomania.

@Oglaf.1074 said:We are the Taimi. Your biological and cultural distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resitance is futile.

Something like that, exactly! (LOL)

@Arzurag.7506 said:Well, why not having a mechanical greatsword that speaks with taimi´s voice and just doesn´t stop talking ?^^

Ahhhhhhhh... the nightmare! :o

@Arden.7480 said:EDIT: And welcome back, haven't seen you for a while. :)

Uhm, I post here almost daily. ;)

Gonna post my own $0.02 on the matter since I have an interest in this (and not just because I love Taimi as a character).

I don't necessarily see Taimi transferring her consciousness into a golem as a good thing if it happens. There's the fact that we don't know the reasoning behind Blish's own transference. It's never explained if it was done as a voluntary thing or some kind of Inquest-mandated thing (I'd like to think Anet will explain this but, you know, this is Anet's storytelling we're talking about, where attention spans are shorter than a squirrel in a silver shop). I think it would be jumping the gun on her part to go through with such a procedure without knowing the circumstances behind Blish's own transference, especially if this was the product of involuntary Inquest experimentation. Anyone who's played through the Asura personal story should remember the arc (if you chose Dynamics as your college of choice) about the Inquest transferring consciousness into golems.

Then there's the issue that concerns me the most and that's pertaining to how disabilities are handled. By calling Blish's golem form "beautiful" I think she's less praising his accomplishment (if it was his choice to transfer his mind into a golem) and more referring to herself as "ugly" indirectly, that the solution to her disability is some kind of transhuman (transasuran?) procedure. As someone with a disability (I'm Autistic), this isn't a positive message that Anet has been or is putting out. This whole situation feels more akin to disability erasure than empowerment, that unless I replace my disability with something that's considered "functional" and "acceptable" by society, I'm useless, worthless, and ugly.

Let's also not forget that Anet has gone out of their way to demonize her assistive technology by scrapping Scruffy not once, but twice. If they're willing to do that to her with just a golem of all things, imagine what kind of sabotage she could face at the hands of the Inquest or any other evil entity if she were to become a golem. I think becoming a golem would introduce more issues than fix them. I'd like to think that Taimi is smart enough to realize these issues that come with being golemized (but of course she's at the mercy of Anet's writing and...well...I wouldn't consider that to be reliable).

I think Anet needs to be really careful about how they handle this issue going forward with future episodes.

I think is time for people to stop demonizing assistive technology. Prosthetic science is good. Hell, the latest prosthesis are amazing, and beautiful!Be prepared, the Singularity is close.

Prosthetics are not sending the wrong message, they are amazing and a blessing to many people who are disabled or had accidents, lost their limbs and sincerely want to expand on their options again. Taimi is ill and she wants to survive. Yes, there even are hints that her disease may spread and kill her at some point in years to come, and possibly sooner rather than later. She is so young, of course she does not want to die! Why should she embrace something that is going to kill her long before she's even grown old?I totally get that Taimi is intrigued by Blish, and if she chooses to transfer her own consciousness into a golem so that her flame is not snuffed out all too early, that is fine. It does not suit an Asuran genius to just surrender to impending oblivion, while the fate of Tyria is still uncertain.

@"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said:Then there's the issue that concerns me the most and that's pertaining to how disabilities are handled. By calling Blish's golem form "beautiful" I think she's less praising his accomplishment (if it was his choice to transfer his mind into a golem) and more referring to herself as "ugly" indirectly, that the solution to her disability is some kind of transhuman (transasuran?) procedure. As someone with a disability (I'm Autistic), this isn't a positive message that Anet has been or is putting out. This whole situation feels more akin to disability erasure than empowerment, that unless I replace my disability with something that's considered "functional" and "acceptable" by society, I'm useless, worthless, and ugly.

Let's also not forget that Anet has gone out of their way to demonize her assistive technology by scrapping Scruffy not once, but twice. If they're willing to do that to her with just a golem of all things, imagine what kind of sabotage she could face at the hands of the Inquest or any other evil entity if she were to become a golem. I think becoming a golem would introduce more issues than fix them. I'd like to think that Taimi is smart enough to realize these issues that come with being golemized (but of course she's at the mercy of Anet's writing and...well...I wouldn't consider that to be reliable).

I think Anet needs to be really careful about how they handle this issue going forward with future episodes.As far as Taimi's disability is concerned, being autistic is slightly different from Taimi's disease because her disease has an element of pain to it, while to my knowledge, autism has no physical impairment to it. She likes the idea of transferring her consciousness to a golem, because it means she would no longer feel pain and it might save her life. However, we've only seen the start of this concept, not that she'll even try it yet. It's hard to say how this will end.

As for the death of Scruffy, the first one was meant to be a symbol of her sacrificing something precious of hers so that Mordremoth could be defeated. That one was fine. Scruffy 2.0 being destroyed in Daybreak... I can see why you might feel that way. Taimi is still useful and powerful without her golem, but it's just harder for her to get around, and she can't really fight outside of it. They're not demonizing the technology, as she liked and enjoyed it, but she is still helpful without her golem. She did build both golems all by herself, after all. And her being downloaded into a golem would be just as bad should someone try to hack her as if she were riding inside of one. Still, we don't know what's to come in Episode 3, so let's hope they tread this path carefully.

Seriously though, I’m surprised this isn’t more commonplace in Asura circles. One can easily imagine an eccentric old genius undergoing it because “the world needs my intellect!” or feeling that their work isn’t completed. Kinda the same reason why people decide to undergo the ritual of becoming a lich, really. It is similar to lichdom, innit? An Asura cheating death just to be able to learn all there is to learn is certainly a feasible scenario.

Perhaps there is a great cultural taboo against it in Asura culture to discourage it, or perhaps Blish was the first to ever figure out how to do it?

@"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said:By calling Blish's golem form "beautiful" I think she's less praising his accomplishment

I do not think so. There was a certain tone in her voice that made it sound like something "clicked" in her head.

As someone with a disability (I'm Autistic), this isn't a positive message that Anet has been or is putting out. This whole situation feels more akin to disability erasure than empowerment, that unless I replace my disability with something that's considered "functional" and "acceptable" by society, I'm useless, worthless, and ugly.

I don't see that. ANet has, on the contrary, shown that disabilities do not make you a less valuable being and that you equally contribute to society, even when you have to overcome certain hurdles that others don't.

If Taimi is indeed flirting with the idea of "becoming a machine" (so to speak), that would be more of a dramatic story-telling element than anything else (such "horror visions" have been around in literature for a long, long time).

Also, people with deseases like spina bifida, for instance, are having a really tough time getting around without any help. Now, Taimi is a very proud and extremely arrogant (comes with the race of the asura) being who doesn't like asking for help but strives for complete independency - so her good intentions to make life easier for herself and possibly others with physical disabilities, that one day might render them highly dependable on others, can turn into said horror vision of "becoming a machine". It is easy to get corrupted that way (again, this is ficton, not reality) and transform you into a genius megalomaniac when suddenly you realize that your invention can also grant you (and your genius mind) eternal existence.

@Oglaf.1074 said:Seriously though, I’m surprised this isn’t more commonplace in Asura circles. One can easily imagine an eccentric old genius undergoing it because “the world needs my intellect!” or feeling that their work isn’t completed. Kinda the same reason why people decide to undergo the ritual of becoming a lich, really. It is similar to lichdom, innit? An Asura cheating death just to be able to learn all there is to learn is certainly a feasible scenario.

Perhaps there is a great cultural taboo against it in Asura culture to discourage it, or perhaps Blish was the first to ever figure out how to do it?

We do see, in the asura personal story, that there were... complications to the procedure. Lots of mentions of how the meld can be lethal, and even when it isn't, integrating with the golem's programming can drive you insane, subsume your personality altogether, and even in a successful case, leave you in a state that's not quite you. Whatever Blish did to avoid that, it'd be either a recent advancement or an immense stroke of luck.

@Ashantara.8731 said:when suddenly you realize that your invention can also grant you (and your genius mind) eternal existence.

Why should that be objectionable, though? Especially when you're facing a degenerative disease that may well cut your life short?

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:Seriously though, I’m surprised this isn’t more commonplace in Asura circles. One can easily imagine an eccentric old genius undergoing it because “the world needs my intellect!” or feeling that their work isn’t completed. Kinda the same reason why people decide to undergo the ritual of becoming a lich, really. It is similar to lichdom, innit? An Asura cheating death just to be able to learn all there is to learn is certainly a feasible scenario.

Perhaps there is a great cultural taboo against it in Asura culture to discourage it, or perhaps Blish was the first to ever figure out how to do it?

There's also an event in Metrica that shows that Oola has linked her spirit to a golem - however, she hasn't shared the secret, and the melding doesn't seem to be as complete as Blish.

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said:By calling Blish's golem form "beautiful" I think she's less praising his accomplishment

As someone with a disability (I'm Autistic), this isn't a positive message that Anet has been or is putting out. This whole situation feels more akin to disability erasure than empowerment, that unless I replace my disability with something that's considered "functional" and "acceptable" by society, I'm useless, worthless, and ugly.

I would love to see it becoming a "growth vision" instead of a "horror" one. I think it is time.

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:Seriously though, I’m surprised this isn’t more commonplace in Asura circles. One can easily imagine an eccentric old genius undergoing it because “the world needs my intellect!” or feeling that their work isn’t completed. Kinda the same reason why people decide to undergo the ritual of becoming a lich, really. It is similar to lichdom, innit? An Asura cheating death just to be able to learn all there is to learn is certainly a feasible scenario.

Perhaps there is a great cultural taboo against it in Asura culture to discourage it, or perhaps Blish was the first to ever figure out how to do it?

Oola was, if I remember, more about traditional necromancy in conjunction with golemancy. What she’s done seems different from Blish.

@Oglaf.1074 said:Oola was, if I remember, more about traditional necromancy in conjunction with golemancy. What she’s done seems different from Blish.

That is correct.

@"Ardid.7203" said:I would love to see it becoming a "growth vision" instead of a "horror" one. I think it is time.

You scare me. ;)

Crossing frontiers is always scary.

@"Arzurag.7506" said:Well, why not having a mechanical greatsword that speaks with taimi´s voice and just doesn´t stop talking ?^^

Oh, the horror! Gives me flashbacks of Lilarcor...http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Lilarcor

@"Plautze.6290" said:Oh, the horror! Gives me flashbacks of Lilarcor...http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Lilarcor

Yes, nothing good ever came of a person melting with an object (in any type of fiction). It's creepy as hell.

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said:By calling Blish's golem form "beautiful" I think she's less praising his accomplishment

As someone with a disability (I'm Autistic), this isn't a positive message that Anet has been or is putting out. This whole situation feels more akin to disability erasure than empowerment, that unless I replace my disability with something that's considered "functional" and "acceptable" by society, I'm useless, worthless, and ugly.

"I have been reborn, and rising from the void brings with it a new perspective." - Palawa Joko S4E3

"I have been reborn, and within this golem I have a new perspective." - Taimi S4E4

@Cuddy.6247 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said:By calling Blish's golem form "beautiful" I think she's less praising his accomplishment

As someone with a disability (I'm Autistic), this isn't a positive message that Anet has been or is putting out. This whole situation feels more akin to disability erasure than empowerment, that unless I replace my disability with something that's considered "functional" and "acceptable" by society, I'm useless, worthless, and ugly.

Indeed!The problem with Joko is not his necromantic skill, it is his desire of power and control over other beings. The awakening can in fact be considered something good, if it were used for good purposes.

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Cuddy.6247 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said:By calling Blish's golem form "beautiful" I think she's less praising his accomplishment

As someone with a disability (I'm Autistic), this isn't a positive message that Anet has been or is putting out. This whole situation feels more akin to disability erasure than empowerment, that unless I replace my disability with something that's considered "functional" and "acceptable" by society, I'm useless, worthless, and ugly.

I don't know...I think awakening is a bit of an abomination. Raising the conscious dead, even for benevolence, nulls the finality of death. It conflicts with emotions like grief. I'd say bringing back the dead in the way Joko does - integrating them among the living population, is much worse than, say, Zhaitan's raw power of necromancy. Even if he wasn't a desecrated tyrant, the act of defying death and by proxy lessening the value of life (seriousy, people in his domain talk highly about being awakened...life should be cherished, not be seen as a minor setback to the final reward) is morally repugnant.

@"Ardid.7203" said:Indeed!The problem with Joko is not his necromantic skill, it is his desire of power and control over other beings. The awakening can in fact be considered something good, if it were used for good purposes.

I did mention that you scare the hell out of me, didn't I? ;) Undeath is never a "good" thing. Living as a rotting corpse is not a desireable state. You can't even call it "living" to begin with. (shudders)

@"Cuddy.6247" said:I don't know...I think awakening is a bit of an abomination.

"A bit" is the understatement of the year. :p

Raising the conscious dead, even for benevolence, nulls the finality of death. It conflicts with emotions like grief. I'd say bringing back the dead in the way Joko does - integrating them among the living population, is much worse than, say, Zhaitan's raw power of necromancy. Even if he wasn't a desecrated tyrant, the act of defying death and by proxy lessening the value of life (seriousy, people in his domain talk highly about being awakened...life should be cherished, not be seen as a minor setback to the final reward) is morally repugnant.

Well phrased.

Back to Taimi, though: I doubt this will happen withing this season, I see it more in the distant future. And I don't think she will go through with it, because she has too many friends who love her and care about her (especially Braham, and even Blish, who did already mention that this is not a desireable state, but apparently it was his last resort ... curious to learn what exactly happened to him).

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Ardid.7203" said:Indeed!The problem with Joko is not his necromantic skill, it is his desire of power and control over other beings. The awakening can in fact be considered something good, if it were used for good purposes.

i guess is on Pirates of the Caribbean franchise that mentions how undeath state sucks, theyre "animated" but unable to feel taste of things, smells or the sense of touch. is basically a punishment.