I... I don't see the point of the gathering tools change... - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

I... I don't see the point of the gathering tools change...

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  • OrbitalButt.5708OrbitalButt.5708 Member ✭✭✭

    Dot dot dot

  • MattDu.7123MattDu.7123 Member ✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    Forgive me for not jumping for joy at the prospect of things gated behind loot box gambling

    I’m not against Anet making money with premium content, quite the opposite. I’m against gambling. Gambling is never in the “favour if the players”.

    With the controversy over lootbox gambling that has seen both EA (Star Wars Battlefront 2) and WB (Middle-earth: Shadow of War) reconsider and rip out loot boxes and the South Korean Government fine three developers nearly a million dollars, I would of thought Anet would be a bit more reluctant to dive into the same mess.
    I am happy to gamble on items that are cometic in nature but I have to agree with Oglaf.1074 that anything that can give an advantage to anyone should be avalible to buy in the store and not be a matter of chance.

  • Biff.5312Biff.5312 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've read SO many complaints in the forums about how they bought one set of tools and now find another is preferable, etc. This addresses all those complaints. It's a huge improvement for a lot of people.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 11, 2018

    So unless you want to juggle multiple sets of very limited gathering tools AND Glyphs to put in them now constantly, you have to spend ~20 - 40€ per character to just gather nodes without worry and constant pauses for managing tools, breaking combat to be able to equip them etc, while also having to buy loot boxes or pay hundreds of gold for the Glyphs it self, per tool, per character, in the first place, to not fall further and further behind.

    For ten characters, that's ~400€ of tools and currently ~7500 Gold in Glyphs, just not to worry about gathering tools any more, which just got more inconvenient due to having to manage Glyphs now too.

    While I appreciate the cosmetic changes for big spenders who have lot's of different tools and like to customize them, to someone without, this feels more and more like an asian MMO, with constant pressures of major inconveniences to drive macro purchases, instead of the fair positive reinforcement micro transaction economy Guild Wars and ArenaNet have been known for in the past.

    From 20€+ Mount skins, more and more loot boxes, loot box and cash shop exclusive content and 20-40€ gathering tools per character tied into loot box drops... Guild Wars 2 just feels less and less like home.

    Edit: The karma tools, for that price, being half the charges again clearly is supposed to drive you to the permanent cash shop tools as well. Carrying 3 sickles (for ~20000 Karma) just for a single Berry run alone is idiotic.
    The inconvenience is just getting to much at this point, with the only alternative being a hefty macro purchase of an entire games/expansions worth amount of money.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • AllNightPlayer.1286AllNightPlayer.1286 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 11, 2018

    What is this kitten?
    1. The slots didn’t become account wide.
    2. If I use the unbound skin on my harvesting sickle, I can still gather three at once. But if I use the standard skin (for example), I can only gather one at once with the same bonus for unbound magic.
    3. Only one bonus per tool. Why not stack glyphs on one tool?

    So, A-Net, why exactly should I exchange my tools, which I put into my shared bags, for “new” tools, which I still have to put into my shared bags???

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Biff.5312 said:
    I've read SO many complaints in the forums about how they bought one set of tools and now find another is preferable, etc. This addresses all those complaints. It's a huge improvement for a lot of people.

    Yes, I bought the plain unbreakable tools right before unbound tools came out so wound up with two sets of tools. Now with the free sigil my plain set has a faster sickle which is great when I am trying to gather in a hurry.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • @Menadena.7482 said:
    Now with the free sigil my plain set has a faster sickle which is great when I am trying to gather in a hurry.

    It’s not faster. You can gather three herbs in one action with the unbound sickle, and four logs/ore with one action.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2018

    @AllNightPlayer.1286 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Now with the free sigil my plain set has a faster sickle which is great when I am trying to gather in a hurry.

    It’s not faster. You can gather three herbs in one action with the unbound sickle, and four logs/ore with one action.

    Umm, you are measuring something that requires multiple strikes. Most of the time plants only have 1 strike. even if they give more than 1 item.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • AllNightPlayer.1286AllNightPlayer.1286 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2018

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @AllNightPlayer.1286 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Now with the free sigil my plain set has a faster sickle which is great when I am trying to gather in a hurry.

    It’s not faster. You can gather three herbs in one action with the unbound sickle, and four logs/ore with one action.

    Umm, you are measuring something that requires multiple strikes. Most of the time plants only have 1 strike. even if they give more than 1 item.

    If you use buffs (banners, item booster), gather rich veins or the guild hall/WvW synthesizers, you might notice the difference. ;)

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crystal Master.4169 said:
    And we still don't have account-wide shared gathering tools slots... Guess I still won't be buying unbreakable tools any time soon.

    if we had that how could they ever get people to buy more then 1 set of tools?

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Would of been nice to be able to remove the bonus from bound tools like frostbitten so we can obtain snowflake glyphs or volatile magic even it it actually meant using an extractkon device and the tool itself gets destroyed in the process.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AllNightPlayer.1286 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @AllNightPlayer.1286 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Now with the free sigil my plain set has a faster sickle which is great when I am trying to gather in a hurry.

    It’s not faster. You can gather three herbs in one action with the unbound sickle, and four logs/ore with one action.

    Umm, you are measuring something that requires multiple strikes. Most of the time plants only have 1 strike. even if they give more than 1 item.

    If you use buffs (banners, item booster), gather rich veins or the guild hall/WvW synthesizers, you might notice the difference. ;)

    I am thinking about things like winterberries. Typically they are guarded and you only get 1 strike/plant.

    It seems like the market might agree about it being useful if you look up how the glyphs are priced now. When I looked the other day the glyph of industry was 400+ gold, the two that gave cloth/leather were at 200+, and the one that gave 5 secs of speed was below 100.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • I like the idea, and hope we can buy spare glyphs (without the tool) in future, so we can upgrade gathering tools we already own.

  • Fremtid.3528Fremtid.3528 Member ✭✭✭

    @Albadaran.1283 said:
    I like the idea, and hope we can buy spare glyphs (without the tool) in future, so we can upgrade gathering tools we already own.

    You already can! Search the trading post and the ones in the chest are there. They're also like 300g but hey.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    Well it gives a reason to buy the no frills gathering tools set now.

    I can pay 24001800 gems for a set and apply the skin I want instead of paying 3000 gems for a set.

    But you'd have to buy the expensive set for their glyphs, too...

    Or get them from blacklion chests, true.
    I think you're missing the point. Anet's point is not to make it cheaper for you. The reason for a change is because the tools aren't equal. Some offer better bonuses than others. Before, you had to choose - do you want the animation you like, or do you want the good gathering bonus? Now you don't need to - you can put the bonus on the set you like best.

    This is the change that has been asked for before.

    Forgive me for not jumping for joy at the prospect of things gated behind loot box gambling. Further more, you’d still have to outright buy most of the special tools for their Glyph; they are not in the chests.

    I think you have to understand that Anet isn't going to change things that will make them less money. They still want to sell you unlimited tools and having a more flexible skins/effects/bonus system is how they are going to do it. They care little if an individual player thinks glyphs are too much or locked in BLC's. I count us LUCKY that we can swap a tool with a glyph we prefer between characters with shared INV slots or buy the glyphs in the TP at all ... There are lots of smart compromises here and they FAVOUR the players.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:

    I’m not against Anet making money with premium content, quite the opposite. I’m against gambling. Gambling is never in the “favour if the players”. Get outta here with that Stockholm Syndrome nonsense.

    This isn't gambling though ... and the difference has been explain MANY times on this forum already. Just because there is an element of chance doesn't mean you can classify this as gambling.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • MattDu.7123MattDu.7123 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    This isn't gambling though ... and the difference has been explain MANY times on this forum already. Just because there is an element of chance doesn't mean you can classify this as gambling.

    Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize.[1]

    Just because the legal world hasn't caught up to the virtual world doesn't mean its not gambling. If I was to take all of your weapons and armor that you have spent real world money on, you have no legal rights to accuse me of stealing. And cyber bullying even if it ends in suicide still isn't really a crime.

    You wager real world money on an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning virtual goods. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

  • Orpheal.8263Orpheal.8263 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2018

    I agree with the OP, the thing that should have happened as real Qol improvement is to make unending gathering tools real accoundbound items, so that when you buy one of them, or in fact, craft one of them under the Qol change, that these unending gathering tools are then real accountbound items, which are shared from that moment on among all of your characters, so that you never need to use a limitated use gathering tool of that type you made/bought again for any other characters of your account.

    Sure, a cheap semi solution is it to put these unending tools into a shared inventory slot, but that would be wasting a slot space for these tools, when there is already the own equipment slot for tools in the UI, which would need to be only auto set fix for all your characters of your account to the unending tool the very moment you equip an unending tool for the first time of a type and have from that moment on never to use limited tools again.
    From that point on it is then just only transforming the "SKIN" of the tool you want to have and it is literally only the SKINS of tools which Anet needs to sell via gemstore, not the ability to have an unending tool.
    The unending tool should be part of player progression and earnable/craftable simple, for Anet matters only to make money from selling the skins and if they'd need to sell only the skins, then they could sell them also slightly cheaper maybe, for say 800 gems then instead of 1000, which would surely lead to more people becoming willing to buy those gathering tool skins, especially if the functionality of the unending tools would become finally real accountbound and useable for all characters of your account, without having to waste extra for this any shared inventory slots.

    Aside of this are the gathering tool upgrades, now nothing more but just only a fix to the situation, that Anet began adding extra effects to gathering tools, so that they are more special and give players more reason to buy those skins/effects from the gemstore.
    But now players are simply able to mix and match their gathering tool skins and effects together, as you like and you are not anymore in any kind of disadvantage for using skin X over skin Y, only because you like skin X better than Y, having not to sacrifice for your choice of taste any positive gathering bonus effects anymore, that other skins might give to you.

    Edited for removal of lots of silly typos xD


    Cassandra Lancaster - Achievement Hunter - 28,9k AP currently - Server: Drakkar Lake/EU - Mastery Rank of 254
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  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MattDu.7123 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    This isn't gambling though ... and the difference has been explain MANY times on this forum already. Just because there is an element of chance doesn't mean you can classify this as gambling.

    Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize.[1]

    Just because the legal world hasn't caught up to the virtual world doesn't mean its not gambling. If I was to take all of your weapons and armor that you have spent real world money on, you have no legal rights to accuse me of stealing. And cyber bullying even if it ends in suicide still isn't really a crime.

    You wager real world money on an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning virtual goods. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

    Here is this problem .. you don't OWN the things you win in this game, Anet does. You simply have access. You're paying for the service to open chests, you don't own the loot in them.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • artemis.6781artemis.6781 Member ✭✭✭

    @MattDu.7123 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    This isn't gambling though ... and the difference has been explain MANY times on this forum already. Just because there is an element of chance doesn't mean you can classify this as gambling.

    Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize.[1]

    Just because the legal world hasn't caught up to the virtual world doesn't mean its not gambling. If I was to take all of your weapons and armor that you have spent real world money on, you have no legal rights to accuse me of stealing. And cyber bullying even if it ends in suicide still isn't really a crime.

    You wager real world money on an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning virtual goods. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

    But you don't have to use real world money when there is a gold to gem ratio present. Therefore, you can spend virtual money on virtual goods. Your duck just flew South.

  • MattDu.7123MattDu.7123 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2018

    @artemis.6781 said:

    But you don't have to use real world money when there is a gold to gem ratio present. Therefore, you can spend virtual money on virtual goods. Your duck just flew South.

    You dont have to buy bank slots, character-specific inventory bag slots, the salvage-o-matics or unlimited gathering tools.
    You dont have to buy season 2 or 3 or HoT or PoF
    £26 each for PoF and HoT
    400x5 bag slots
    600x13 bank tabs
    and I bought additional crafting licenses, shared inventory slots, and character slots as well but lets not count them. Or the gold you need crafting for accended items and thermocatalytic reagent etc.
    1280 Season 2
    960 season 3
    Haven't had to pay for season 4 because I've been playing since it was released
    2700 Infinite Unbound Magic Gathering Tools
    800 copper o matic
    500 silver o matic
    last 3 so I dont waste my key buying gold on gathering and breaking down tools

    So 16040 gems is about 4757 gold or there about at the current exchange rate. And if like most between work and family you only get time to do the dailies netting you 2 gold a time that would be 6 and a half years.

    Of cause after all that, then I can say I dont need real money for keys and my ducks can fly south.

    We have glyph because those that had tools with benefits had an advantage and i understand it was only fair to level the playing field. And therefore Glyths can give an advantage in game also. One person could spend 125gems to get a glyth and another over 10,000 to get the same thing, unfair again??. I now hope you agree, if not in the legal sense that it is gambling.
    I dont mind BLC for cosmetic items and if people want to gamble for glyths thats up to them. But can we have the glyphs available in the Gemstore or in the BLC but buyable with the black lion statuettes.

  • Samnang.1879Samnang.1879 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like the change. I like the lucky dog harvesting tool, and I like to be able to change the skin of my unbound harvest tool to the dog one.
    I also like the 50% faster gathering effect.

    Anet: give us in-game customizable human NPC companion please
    Please, no more balance changes, or at least reset our gears so we don't have to waste gold changing gears every time.
    Please have option to not receive bloodstone dusts, empyreal fragments, dragonite etc

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MattDu.7123 said:
    I dont mind BLC for cosmetic items and if people want to gamble for glyths thats up to them. But can we have the glyphs available in the Gemstore or in the BLC but buyable with the black lion statuettes.

    Glyphs are buyable with BL statuettes. You convert the statues to gold, you buy gems with the gold, you buy the tools with the glyphs with the gems ... OR you buy the glyphs with the gold from the TP.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @MattDu.7123 said:
    I dont mind BLC for cosmetic items and if people want to gamble for glyths thats up to them. But can we have the glyphs available in the Gemstore or in the BLC but buyable with the black lion statuettes.

    Glyphs are buyable with BL statuettes. You convert the statues to gold, you buy gems with the gold, you buy the tools with the glyphs with the gems ... OR you buy the glyphs with the gold from the TP.

    Glyphs are NOT purchasable with the statuettes. That's something a lot of people (including myself) are asking for, though.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    Well it gives a reason to buy the no frills gathering tools set now.

    I can pay 24001800 gems for a set and apply the skin I want instead of paying 3000 gems for a set.

    But you'd have to buy the expensive set for their glyphs, too...

    Or get them from blacklion chests, true.
    I think you're missing the point. Anet's point is not to make it cheaper for you. The reason for a change is because the tools aren't equal. Some offer better bonuses than others. Before, you had to choose - do you want the animation you like, or do you want the good gathering bonus? Now you don't need to - you can put the bonus on the set you like best.

    This is the change that has been asked for before.

    Forgive me for not jumping for joy at the prospect of things gated behind loot box gambling. Further more, you’d still have to outright buy most of the special tools for their Glyph; they are not in the chests.

    This is the exact quote from the Blog post talking about Glyphs:
    "Each of these glyphs is also available as a rare drop from Black Lion Chests. Glyphs found in chests are account-bound on use and can be bought and sold through the trading post." So, yes they are available from BLC, only it's a rare drop.

    Also, for the millionth time, based on the legal definition of gambling in the U.S Register, chests are not gambling.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    There is no point in trying to excuse it by quoting how it isn’t technically gambling - we are all very well aware of this, as this is a big problem. The law and regulatory bodies are notoriously slow to catch up with things like this.

    That doesn’t change the fact that it is gambling in every sense of the word. As someone so eloquently put: it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.

    Buying Gems to take a spin at the metaphorical roulette wheel that is BLCs is no different than buying chips at a casino (in fact, freemium currency is almost identical to casino chips as to why it exists).

    So. Yeah.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

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