Updated! Can we have some love for condi builds please? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Updated! Can we have some love for condi builds please?

Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited August 27, 2019 in Ranger

I’ve seen like, maybe, a couple of ranger condi builds in wvw, so I’d like to make a few suggestions to provide this profession working condi builds.

SHORTBOW

  • Remove the flanking mechanics from shortbow and the Light On You Feet Trait. Up the direct and condi damage instead.

  • Take the daze and stun buff from Moment of Clarity and put it in Hidden Barbs Trait.

  • A shortbow trait, or standard change, for 1,200 range... *Possible traits to change to extend SB range https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tail_Wind OR... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Light_on_your_Feet OR... Like that longbow change in 2015 “Ranger Longbow skill range is now 1500.” that made a standard increase in range.

TRAPS

  • Give back throwable traps (as a standard function, not trait related) to this profession. Only this profession.

  • Reevaluate the damage and cc on these so they are a lil more impactful.

  • Considering the Trapper Expertise Trait has a Boon buff... “Boons and conditions caused by your traps last 60% longer.”, perhaps we could add some Boons to actually buff... Yeah, I know the heal takes advantage of that buff, but there aren’t any other ones.

  • We need a Trap Elite... Please?

DAGGERS

DRUID STAFF

  • Staff 1- Add 1 burning condition to the 3rd attack tick. The low damage and low healing make adding conditions to this skill ok.

  • Staff 2- Add a few burning conditions and increase radius to 300. All effects hit 5 enemies and allies within the radius. The current 130 radius is not enough to support allies so the increased radius would help. This change would also be a useful for helping to contribute to breaking up the tight zergs.

  • Staff 3- Add a short duration burning condition trail and burning condition aoe burst around the user at the end of the skill movement.

  • Staff 4- Make this a circular patch, like all those other aoe patches, and add bleeding. The current cone design is awful to use in any movement based combat, so the aoe design allows this skill to be useful. This would also make the skill useful for zerg breaking and sieging structures in wvw.

  • Staff 5- Make this skill an aoe dome. The current small rectangle design is as useless as vine surge. This change allows us to support better during mass combat situations.

These changes provide this profession with viable condi build options, and contribute to the much needed build diversity.

Comments

  • I have played the stealth trapper build in plat with WS, NM, skirmishing. It's certainly not meta, but it is good damage and quite slippery with all the stealth. It has a high health pool with carrion amulet and a decent amount of sustain with traits. I run short bow and axe/torch. I recommend people try it out.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dear Sir @Karl McLain.5604 ,

    Would you please consider my suggestions to help provide Ranger, Druid and Soulbeast specs some viable condi builds in WvW and SPvP? I have not seen any competitive condi builds in WvW, and it's a shame that most WvW Soulbeast builds utilize longbow/greatsword, or longbow/sword and warhorn, instead of those daggers...

    Thank you!

  • Krispera.5087Krispera.5087 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2018

    THROWING TRAPS

    Bringing back Throwing Traps would, IMO, instantly buff Condi rangers in WvW and PvP. That little thing can change everything.

    DAGGERS

    There are many things they need to buff to make MH Dagger viable. It doesn't have evade, support and enough impact. A thief can use Daggers very well, because they have access to many evade, shadowstep, stealth and impactfull damage. An ele can use dagger well, because the sets give them plenty of aoe, mobility, self sustain and support. A spellbreaker can use daggers well, because warrior traits and skills already give them lots of tools and synergy to play with it.

    A ranger has to invest a lot to make the Daggers work. I think most of the problems come from our OH. Warhorn is fine (Hunter's Call could use a buff), Torch is only condi damage with no support, then Dagger has an evade with a terrible Crippling Talon. If you use Torch or Warhorn, you're very naked and squishy. If you take Dagger, your damage is weak. Also, beside Ambidexterity and Predator's Cunning, I don't see any direct trait for Daggers. Predator's Cunning doesn't give enough life steal so that sticking and hitting to your target, while tanking the damage, was advantageous. It's not. For a melee weapon, it needs more defense, support and self sustain.

    Actually, I feel nothing in the traits of Soulbeast was made for Daggers. Just by looking the Minors ! Furious Strength ? The dagger gives no Fury. Twice as Vicious ? The daggers can't disable. They could give MH Dagger a cripple or immob to start with, because we can't really stick to a target with it. You'll have to use Muddy Terrain or Entangle or OH Dagger or a pet skill.

    CONDI AND PETS

    Now, what about condi pets and Soulbeast...

    Another thing that could have been good for Condi Soulbeast was Iboga, but they gave it Confusion (Which is nerfed) and Torment, which are 2 things we never had before and have no other ways to stack. Why didn't they just go with Bleed and Poison ?

    After months of waiting, they finally fixed Poison Gas from Spiders, but it wasn't enough to make us pick it over other pets. Poison Gas is on a 20 secs cooldown, which is very long for something that applies only poison for 4 secs.

    Then you have Bristleback, one of the best condi PvP/WvW pet. Nothing is wrong with it, it's in a pretty good position, but Rain of Spikes is bugged. In the note on Wiki, it says '' This skill misses in almost all circumstances as it aims at the targets' feet (or below).''.

    STAFF

    If they can look at Primal Echoes, which is super useless and make it into a real offensive staff trait. I mean ok, I can understand the cooldown reduction, but nobody will take it over Druidic Clarity.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @Krispera.5087 said:
    THROWING TRAPS

    Bringing back Throwing Traps would, IMO, instantly buff Condi rangers in WvW and PvP. That little thing can change everything.

    DAGGERS

    There are many things they need to buff to make MH Dagger viable. It doesn't have evade, support and enough impact. A thief can use Daggers very well, because they have access to many evade, shadowstep, stealth and impactfull damage. An ele can use dagger well, because the sets give them plenty of aoe, mobility, self sustain and support. A spellbreaker can use daggers well, because warrior traits and skills already give them lots of tools and synergy to play with it.

    A ranger has to invest a lot to make the Daggers work. I think most of the problems come from our OH. Warhorn is fine (Hunter's Call could use a buff), Torch is only condi damage with no support, then Dagger has an evade with a terrible Crippling Talon. If you use Torch or Warhorn, you're very naked and squishy. If you take Dagger, your damage is weak. Also, beside Ambidexterity and Predator's Cunning, I don't see any direct trait for Daggers. Predator's Cunning doesn't give enough life steal so that sticking and hitting to your target, while tanking the damage, was advantageous. It's not. For a melee weapon, it needs more defense, support and self sustain.

    Actually, I feel nothing in the traits of Soulbeast was made for Daggers. Just by looking the Minors ! Furious Strength ? The dagger gives no Fury. Twice as Vicious ? The daggers can't disable. They could give MH Dagger a cripple or immob to start with, because we can't really stick to a target with it. You'll have to use Muddy Terrain or Entangle or OH Dagger or a pet skill.

    CONDI AND PETS

    Now, what about condi pets and Soulbeast...

    Another thing that could have been good for Condi Soulbeast was Iboga, but they gave it Confusion (Which is nerfed) and Torment, which are 2 things we never had before and have no other ways to stack. Why didn't they just go with Bleed and Poison ?

    After months of waiting, they finally fixed Poison Gas from Spiders, but it wasn't enough to make us pick it over other pets. Poison Gas is on a 20 secs cooldown, which is very long for something that applies only poison for 4 secs.

    Then you have Bristleback, one of the best condi PvP/WvW pet. Nothing is wrong with it, it's in a pretty good position, but Rain of Spikes is bugged. In the note on Wiki, it says '' This skill misses in almost all circumstances as it aims at the targets' feet (or below).''.

    STAFF

    If they can look at Primal Echoes, which is super useless and make it into a real offensive staff trait. I mean ok, I can understand the cooldown reduction, but nobody will take it over Druidic Clarity.

    I actually made several suggestions to all points you brought out here.

    First:
    Dagger, Torch and WH:

    Torch: Ammunition on throw torch. Hits now 3 targetsand cripples. Bonfire is now Ground target. So you can use it on range or in melee but its easier to position and you can utilize more synergies with i.e dagger MH. You can throw bonfire and torch and jump into the field at your target for finisher.

    WH: Blind on first hit on HC would be nice, could also be implemented by go for the eyes trait.

    Dagger MH:
    Double Arc should apply heavy poison instead of bleeding and your next pet attack should daze instead if apply poison. Double synergy achieved.
    Instinctive engage should be an evade.

    Dagger OH:

    Tgis weapon lacks 1 particular thing: Impact
    But without changing weapon identity i have an easy solution to add dmg to this weapon.

    First let it hit more targets. 3 targets on talon and on strike. Strike has now more range and some kinda indicator how far you can reach with your blade.

    Second add ammunition. 2 on strike and 3 on talon.

    This way Dagger OH is a spammy fast annoying evasive weapon with more use in PvE.
    And even better in PvP.

    Spiders:

    I would actually change the spider in many ways.

    1. Change the web shot into an immobilizing field.
    2. Remive the poison gas as an autonomous skill of the pet and replace it with deadly poison from firest spider F2.
    3. Change all F2 into poisonfields that apply poison + a soecific condition.

    -> Blackwidow/ junglespider
    Field now immobilizes on pulse.
    -> Forrestspider
    Field applies 2 stacks of poison per pulse
    -> Cavespider
    Field applies weakness.

    All fields are ground targetable.

    Staff:
    Chabge primal echoes to a standalone trait that stuns on weaponswap and make natural mender into the staff trait as a major.

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Can we have some love for condi builds please?

    I had a really nice plague doctor soulbeast build a while back, basically a condi boon beast. Have to dust that off.

  • Daggers also need a way to trigger twice as vicious by itself without having to rely on other weapons.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Abyssisis.3971 said:
    Daggers also need a way to trigger twice as vicious by itself without having to rely on other weapons.

    double arc: when you hit a target with 10+ bleed stacks, inflict 0.75 seconds daze
    pretty much the same like thief shortbow with poison.

    just that ranger can't spam it, but still benefits from twice as vicious

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Abyssisis.3971 said:
    Daggers also need a way to trigger twice as vicious by itself without having to rely on other weapons.

    Theres way more wrong with the daggers then that. The majority of it is rooted in the Dev's perception that the Dagger is just a static DPS weapon for Raid builds. Its auto attack is slow, its chain sequence is longer and back loaded, 2 skill is just extra bleed stacks and potentially a DPS loss over the auto chain, 3 skill is ridiculously situational due to the Dagger's small strike arc, the historically inconsistent range of leap skills, its tendency to fire on the far side of small hit boxes, and its slow wind up speed; all of which contribute to making the conditional "on strike" quickness unreliable as a source in mobile fights. The weapon has zero utility in mobile fights (which includes fighting most champs), and is further highlighting the problem with Ranger's layout, and its highly scattered and overly narrow, function specific skills.

  • KeyOrion.9506KeyOrion.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    Your condi builds are built into your traps. Spike, fire so on and so forth.

  • Krispera.5087Krispera.5087 Member ✭✭✭

    Oh boy, my last message on this thread was on april and they only fixed BMode Bristleback.

    I'm playing Condi SBeast lately and I just can't help but feel miserable when I try to tag with ranger condi weapons. Why is our Shortbow so terrible for AoE when Thief and Revenant shortbows are AoE monsters ? Like many asked already, Crossfire should hit adjacent targets, like Volley in GW1 (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Volley), that would make it feel a little less tedious.

    Using the new ''buff'' from Quick Shot doesn't help in the overall DPS Benchmark, you actually lose DPS from trying to get LoyF buff. Too much back delay/leap animation.

    Also, just remove the Flanking bonuses from LoyF/Shortbow, it just doesn't work for a Condi weapon. I can understand flanking for Power weapons, but Condi ? Just NAH, not effective.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    The traps are useless in pvp / wvw and this affects the construction conditions.
    Removing traps and giving us preparation skills would be a huge step forward.
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Preparation

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Revolution.5409 said:
    The traps are useless in pvp / wvw and this affects the construction conditions.
    Removing traps and giving us preparation skills would be a huge step forward.
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Preparation

    Well, we can’t step on the toes of thieves now, and besides, rangers can’t have nicer things lol

    “Thief trap skills are being retired for now and replaced by a new type of ability: Preparations. See below for their more information on those skills.”

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:
    The traps are useless in pvp / wvw and this affects the construction conditions.
    Removing traps and giving us preparation skills would be a huge step forward.
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Preparation

    Well, we can’t step on the toes of thieves now, and besides, rangers can’t have nicer things lol

    “Thief trap skills are being retired for now and replaced by a new type of ability: Preparations. See below for their more information on those skills.”

    This is something I missed. I expect the guild wars, thief's skills in the next update! LOL

    Even rituals would have been an alternative solution for traps, we hope anet does not recycle ranger skills (gw) for other professions xD

  • No, we get recycled skills of other professions..

    Berserker’s major master trait
    Dead or Alive 30 second cooldown
    Receiving fatal damage while in berserk mode ends berserk and heals you. Incoming healing is increased.
    Healing 5,220
    Incoming Healing Increase 10%

    Vs

    Souldbeast major grandmaster trait
    Eternal bond 60 second cooldown
    While in beastmode, if you would be downed you instead fall out of beastmode and recover health.
    Healing: 3,924 (1.5)?
    Protection (3s): -33% Incoming Damage

    Only somehow we get a worse off version despite being a higher tier trait. Rangers cannot have nice things haha

  • About Trap

    • Can throw as standard function, When have traits throw/instal trap Place addition trap on your spot too.
      I like old passive trap when heal downstage friend,when you heal them you will auto place trap under your place it troll a lot...

    About Traits "Sharpened Edge+Hidden Bards" Merge to 1passive traits.

    • You and your pet bleed is danger also your Sharpening stone will more effective.
    • you and your pet Active lesser Sharpening Stone when ???.
      -It can solve bleed problem? And no need to be cri.

    Torch

    • skill 5 bonfire can BBQ,Year I SAID can cook BBQ!!Burn foe and heal friend!!

    Shortbow
    It fair enough about flanking position.But range should be back to 1200. we master at range weapon we should handle it better.
    Light on your feet should effect with any evade-weapon and when Endurance not full should have active traits too.(because your foot is light run more roll more move more)

  • Trappers expertise should also come with a break stun, similar to dragonhunters trap trait.

    For example..
    When disabled, break stun and drop a spike trap on your position. 45 second cooldown
    Increase the duration of boons and conditions applied by traps. Traps gain reduced recharges and offensive ones cause cripple.
    Cripple3 sec -50% Movement Speed
    Recharge Reduced 20%
    Duration Increase 60%

    I believe we also need an elite trap.

    For example
    Pitfall
    Trap 60 second cooldown
    Places a trap that strips enemy stability and knocks them down for 3 seconds.
    Damage 500 (or whatever)
    Applies 8 seconds of confusion and weakness.
    Applies 10 stacks of vulnerability for 3 seconds
    Number of targets 5
    Trap radius 180
    Effective radius 240
    Unblockable

    Hidden barbs should be replaced with..

    Sharpened barbs
    You and your pet have a chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.
    Chance on Critical Hit 33%
    Bleeding 3 sec 88 damage
    Bleeding you inflict is more dangerous.
    Damage Increase 33%
    (soulbeast applies 2 stacks of bleeding for 3 seconds when merged with pet)

    Shortbow, I definitely reckon 1200 range as well.

    And bonfire should pulse blind as well.

  • @Abyssisis.3971 said:
    No, we get recycled skills of other professions..

    Berserker’s major master trait
    Dead or Alive 30 second cooldown
    Receiving fatal damage while in berserk mode ends berserk and heals you. Incoming healing is increased.
    Healing 5,220
    Incoming Healing Increase 10%

    Vs

    Souldbeast major grandmaster trait
    Eternal bond 60 second cooldown
    While in beastmode, if you would be downed you instead fall out of beastmode and recover health.
    Healing: 3,924 (1.5)?
    Protection (3s): -33% Incoming Damage

    Only somehow we get a worse off version despite being a higher tier trait. Rangers cannot have nice things haha

    Worth noting that there are fewer restrictions to get into beastmode than berserk. It requires the initial adrenaline investment and has a time limit. Beastmode is indefinite (granted you will want to hop in and out)

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