Gathering Tool Update: what they didn't tell you — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Gathering Tool Update: what they didn't tell you

Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited April 24, 2018 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

While this update was met overall with high praise, there are still a lot of details that aren't clear. I want to get the information I've learned out there and will happily update this post as I learn more. If you think I missed something, please let me know.

Some skins are better than others.

It's a fairly well known fact that not all infinite gathering tools are created equal, even when not accounting for the extra harvesting benefits. For example, the Consortium Harvesting Sickle has a shorter animation and actually completes the harvest partway through the animation instead of at the end. The Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast has a longer than normal animation, but harvests three strikes all at once.

Well, these benefits are tied to the skin itself, not the tool. You can purchase your typical Orichalcum Sickle from a merchant, transmute the skin onto it with no glyph, and get these benefits in harvesting speed or extra hits.

Suggested skins to use:
1. Consortium Harvesting Sickle: faster animation, can animation-cancel for faster harvest.
2. Fused Molten Sickle: faster animation, can animation-cancel for faster harvest.
3. Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast: gathers three hits at the end of the animation, good with the Glyph of Bounty (see below).
4. Unbound Magic Logging Pulse: Gathers two hits on the last strike, good with the Glyph of Bounty (see below).
5. Unbound Magic Mining Beam: Gathers two hits on the last strike, good with the Glyph of Bounty and Rich veins (see below).

Suggested skins to avoid:
1. Skritt gathering Tool: Roots player in place, making canceling animation (such as for avoiding attacks) difficult.

Glyphs have some not-so-obvious mechanics.

Some of the glyphs are fairly straightforward in function, namely the Industry (50% faster harvest speed) and Flight (100% faster move speed after harvest), so I won't be going over those much. However, others have more nuance to them.

Glyph of Industry
This one is pretty straightforward, dropping the normal harvest time by 33%. This is what a 50% speed increase does. I will admit that I have not personally timed this, so it is possible that my interpretation is incorrect, but that is how the phrasing of the description works out.

Glyph of Flight
The buff duration is 5 seconds, but it's important to note that you don't actually get to move at double-speed afterwards. Unmounted movement speed caps out at 400 units/second, which is the same speed as an out-of-combat player with Swiftness. To my knowledge, mounts are unaffected by speed modifiers altogether (Swiftness doesn't do anything on them). This is nice for harvesting in areas with enemies that attack you while harvesting as it gives you a better chance to get away.

Glyph of the Leatherworker/Tailor
I'm grouping these two together because their mechanics are identical. These give a 33% chance on each strike to generate a scrap of the appropriate material.

However, the original blog post for this update was a bit misleading on these glyphs in particular. In it, ANet said that the tier of leather/cloth you would get depended on your level and node you were harvesting.This is only partially true. The material tier you get is dependent on your level, but does take downlevelling into account. The node you are harvesting from actually has no impact whatsoever on what you get, only your (adjusted) level does. This is usually irrelevant, as you'll never find copper nodes in a level 80 area, but it does factor in when harvesting home instances. Keep this in mind when looking to collect certain materials. On the upside, these can get you any tier of material, including T6. T6 materials are rare occurrences, but they do drop from these glyphs.

Glyph of the Watchknight
Like the Leatherworker and Tailor glyphs, this provides a 33% chance per strike to get a sprocket. Unlike those two, there's only one tier of sprockets, so the entire second paragraph of the above can be ignored for this.

Glyph of the Unbound
This is currently the only glyph that behaves differently when placed on different tool types (not skins, types). When placed on a sickle, it gives a greater yield per strike of unbound magic. This is usually not a concern, since the other two tools hit three times (minimum) per node and generally even out, but it is worth noting. On picks and axes, it gives 1-3 unbound magic per strike and on sickles it gives 3-6 per strike.

Glyph of Bounty
This one seems straightforward, giving a 33% chance per strike of getting another strike on the node, but it has much more nuance than that. First and foremost, this additional strike itself gets the same chance of generating yet another strike. Theoretically, this can chain endlessly, but there is a hard cap of 3 extra strikes on any given node (4 total on plants, 6 total on saplings and ore nodes). Secondly, The unbound skins mentioned above will immedietly harvest this additional strike, with the sickle even immedietly harvesting a second extra strike. Third, because my testing suggests that the chance is calculated on each strike, this means your typical saplings and ore nodes have ~70% chance to get at least one additional strike. That said, I have a small sample size, so more testing is needed to confirm this.

It also appears that a node can only have one "extra strike" at a time. Once an extra strike has been generated, no more will be on that node until all "extras" are consumed. In other words, if the first strike on a sapling or ore node generates an extra, then the second and third will not do so. Once you harvest this "extra," you once again have a 33% chance of generating yet another. What this works out to on these nodes is a 70% chance of one extra strike, but only a 33% chance after that for additional strikes. Rich veins are an exception and do not generate extra strikes.

However, it should be noted that this glyph does have some limitations on the nodes it works on. It does not function inside home instances with exception of the Black Lion Garden Plot, where it does. It also does not work on Guild Hall synthesizers.

Glyph of the Scavenger
This gives a 33% chance of a fine crafting material per strike. I don't own this glyph myself, so I invite those who have to chime in and let me know if you have found any methods of predicting what it gives you.

Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

<1

Comments

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Good stuff ... I'm holding off on Glyphs until Anet intro more. It seems that the effect that Bounty Glyph has on the Unbound tools is unintended ... I would expect Anet might nerf things like that as well.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • I was wondering the Leatherworker/Tailor/Watchknight Glyph's give a 33% chance on each strike to generate a scrap of the appropriate material, is this a flat rate or is it modifiable by Guild Gathering Boost (6-20%) and/or the Guild Gathering and Swiftness Banner (+15%)

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anyone been able to get the T6 leather/cloth with the Glyph? Granted, I’ve not done much testing (too busy with SAB) but I seem to only have gotten T5 material so far.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Anyone been able to get the T6 leather/cloth with the Glyph? Granted, I’ve not done much testing (too busy with SAB) but I seem to only have gotten T5 material so far.

    I have. It's rare, but you can get T6 materials. Will update the OP with this information.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2018

    Incredibly helpful.

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Anyone been able to get the T6 leather/cloth with the Glyph? Granted, I’ve not done much testing (too busy with SAB) but I seem to only have gotten T5 material so far.

    Only tier 5 so far as well.

    No longer posting or playing.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2018

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    Anyone been able to get the T6 leather/cloth with the Glyph? Granted, I’ve not done much testing (too busy with SAB) but I seem to only have gotten T5 material so far.

    I have. It's rare, but you can get T6 materials. Will update the OP with this information.

    That’s super good news, really.

    T6 leather prices be cray-cray.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2018

    @wytchlight.1384 said:
    I was wondering the Leatherworker/Tailor/Watchknight Glyph's give a 33% chance on each strike to generate a scrap of the appropriate material, is this a flat rate or is it modifiable by Guild Gathering Boost (6-20%) and/or the Guild Gathering and Swiftness Banner (+15%)

    Haven't been able to get enough of a sample size myself, so I can't say. I haven't noticed any increase with the guild banner compared to without from before the update, and I've never used the guild gathering boost.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • I have been using the Leatherworker Glyph on my Harvesting Tool for a few days now and already have an observation to make. There's a chance for additional leather on all nodes except mining and logging. This means I can get extra leather even if I'm harvesting vegetables or cloth for example. I think this extra flexibility makes it the best single gathering glyph currently available. I want to hear from other users if they have gained any Tier 6 materials with the glyph. So far I have only harvested Thick Leather Sections though. I guess this means that Trading Post prices will come down to reflect the extra materials being gathered.

    Happy hunting!

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Maybe they should update all permanent mining tools to have 4 hits, instead of some 3, some 4

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Robban.1256Robban.1256 Member ✭✭

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    While this update was met overall with high praise, there are still a lot of details that aren't clear. I want to get the information I've learned out there and will happily update this post as I learn more. If you think I missed something, please let me know.

    Some skins are better than others.

    It's a fairly well known fact that not all infinite gathering tools are created equal, even when not accounting for the extra harvesting benefits. For example, the Consortium Harvesting Sickle has a shorter animation and actually completes the harvest partway through the animation instead of at the end. The Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast has a longer than normal animation, but harvests three strikes all at once.

    Well, these benefits are tied to the skin itself, not the tool. You can purchase your typical Orichalcum Sickle from a merchant, transmute the skin onto it with no glyph, and get these benefits in harvesting speed or extra hits.

    Suggested skins to use:
    1. Consortium Harvesting Sickle: faster animation, can animation-cancel for faster harvest.
    2. Fused Molten Sickle: faster animation, can animation-cancel for faster harvest.
    3. Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast: gathers three hits at the end of the animation, good with the Glyph of Bounty (see below).
    4. Unbound Magic Logging Pulse: Gathers two hits on the last strike, good with the Glyph of Bounty (see below).
    5. Unbound Magic Mining Beam: Gathers two hits on the last strike, good with the Glyph of Bounty and Rich veins (see below).

    Glyphs have some not-so-obvious mechanics.

    Some of the glyphs are fairly straightforward in function, namely the Industry (50% faster harvest speed) and Flight (100% faster move speed after harvest), so I won't be going over those much. However, others have more nuance to them.

    Glyph of Industry
    This one is pretty straightforward, dropping the normal harvest time by 33%. This is what a 50% speed increase does. I will admit that I have not personally timed this, so it is possible that my interpretation is incorrect, but that is how the phrasing of the description works out.

    Glyph of Flight
    The buff duration is 5 seconds, but it's important to note that you don't actually get to move at double-speed afterwards. Unmounted movement speed caps out at 400 units/second, which is the same speed as an out-of-combat player with Swiftness. To my knowledge, mounts are unaffected by speed modifiers altogether (Swiftness doesn't do anything on them). This is nice for harvesting in areas with enemies that attack you while harvesting as it gives you a better chance to get away.

    Glyph of the Leatherworker/Tailor
    I'm grouping these two together because their mechanics are identical. These give a 33% chance on each strike to generate a scrap of the appropriate material.

    However, the original blog post for this update was a bit misleading on these glyphs in particular. In it, ANet said that the tier of leather/cloth you would get depended on your level and node you were harvesting.This is only partially true. The material tier you get is dependent on your level, but does take downlevelling into account. The node you are harvesting from actually has no impact whatsoever on what you get, only your (adjusted) level does. This is usually irrelevant, as you'll never find copper nodes in a level 80 area, but it does factor in when harvesting home instances. This matters based on which home instance as well, as Salma District (in Divinity's Reach) is a level 15 zone while all of the others are level 80 zones. Keep this in mind when looking to collect certain materials. On the upside, these can get you any tier of material, including T6. T6 materials are rare occurrences, but they do drop from these glyphs.

    Glyph of the Watchknight
    Like the Leatherworker and Tailor glyphs, this provides a 33% chance per strike to get a sprocket. Unlike those two, there's only one tier of sprockets, so the entire second paragraph of the above can be ignored for this.

    Glyph of the Unbound
    This is currently the only glyph that behaves differently when placed on different tool types (not skins, types). When placed on a sickle, it gives a greater yield per strike of unbound magic. This is usually not a concern, since the other two tools hit three times (minimum) per node and generally even out, but it is worth noting. On picks and axes, it gives 1-3 unbound magic per strike and on sickles it gives 4-9 per strike.

    Glyph of Bounty
    This one seems straightforward, giving a 33% chance per strike of getting another strike on the node, but it has much more nuance than that. First and foremost, this additional strike itself gets the same chance of generating yet another strike. Theoretically, this can chain endlessly, but statistically speaking, you won't get too many more. Secondly, The unbound skins mentioned above will immedietly harvest this additional strike, with the sickle even immedietly harvesting a second extra strike. Third, because my testing suggests that the chance is calculated on each strike, this means your typical saplings and ore nodes have ~70% chance to get at least one additional strike. That said, I have a small sample size, so more testing is needed to confirm this.

    However, it should be noted that this glyph does have some limitations on the nodes it works on. It does not function inside home instances with exception of the Black Lion Garden Plot, where it does. It also does not work on synthesizers, like those found in WvW and in Guild halls.

    Glyph of the Scavenger
    This gives a 33% chance of a fine crafting material per strike. I don't own this glyph myself, so I invite those who have to chime in and let me know if you have found any methods of predicting what it gives you.

    Here you can see the difference between fused molten sickle vs Consortium Harvesting Sickle in speed :

    "It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might has well not have lived at all, in which case you have failed by default"- J.K Rowling
    “The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2018

    @Paul Ratticus.6847 said:
    I have been using the Leatherworker Glyph on my Harvesting Tool for a few days now and already have an observation to make. There's a chance for additional leather on all nodes except mining and logging. This means I can get extra leather even if I'm harvesting vegetables or cloth for example. I think this extra flexibility makes it the best single gathering glyph currently available. I want to hear from other users if they have gained any Tier 6 materials with the glyph. So far I have only harvested Thick Leather Sections though. I guess this means that Trading Post prices will come down to reflect the extra materials being gathered.

    Happy hunting!

    The chance is on any node at all. You just have to have the glyph on the correct tool for the node. I have it on my logging axe right now.

    As for T6 materials, I can confirm it right now. I got Hardened Leather on day 1 when doing my home instance run. Dropped when I was harvesting the Fire Orchid. It's rare, but it does drop.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Not noted here is that the Skritt Gathering tool "roots" the player while gathering. I really wish they would fix this or give us a refund.

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Updating the OP with a bit more information on the Bounty glyph. It appears that , while extra strikes can generate extra strikes of their own, the node can only have one "extra" at a time. For example, when harvesting a sapling, if the first swing generates an extra strike, then the second and third will not do so.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    Glyph of the Unbound
    This is currently the only glyph that behaves differently when placed on different tool types (not skins, types). When placed on a sickle, it gives a greater yield per strike of unbound magic. This is usually not a concern, since the other two tools hit three times (minimum) per node and generally even out, but it is worth noting. On picks and axes, it gives 1-3 unbound magic per strike and on sickles it gives 4-9 per strike.

    Hmmm, about that...

    When I first started using the new tools, I thought they had nerfed the sickle because I was only getting 1-3 UM per plant. But I was told by others that it had always been that way, and I realized that the juicy bonus amounts probably only come when harvesting special nodes like LS3 map currencies, not your average onions and zucchini. So that is only partly accurate.

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2018

    @Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    Glyph of the Unbound
    This is currently the only glyph that behaves differently when placed on different tool types (not skins, types). When placed on a sickle, it gives a greater yield per strike of unbound magic. This is usually not a concern, since the other two tools hit three times (minimum) per node and generally even out, but it is worth noting. On picks and axes, it gives 1-3 unbound magic per strike and on sickles it gives 4-9 per strike.

    Hmmm, about that...

    When I first started using the new tools, I thought they had nerfed the sickle because I was only getting 1-3 UM per plant. But I was told by others that it had always been that way, and I realized that the juicy bonus amounts probably only come when harvesting special nodes like LS3 map currencies, not your average onions and zucchini. So that is only partly accurate.

    I find this strange, because post-update, I'm still getting 4-9 Unbound magic when harvesting onions, flax, or passiflora. I have exchanged my tool for the glyph version as well.

    EDIT: It appears I was remembering incorrectly, because it looks like there was indeed a nerf, though not as large of one as you're reporting. It's now yielding 3-6 unbound magic per strike on a sickle. I've updated the OP with corrected values.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • notebene.3190notebene.3190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not liking the fact that the home instance in Divinity's Reach is different from the other home instances. :/

    In the event I don't get a chance, thank you all for the company and help when I needed it from time to time.

  • @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    Glyph of the Unbound
    This is currently the only glyph that behaves differently when placed on different tool types (not skins, types). When placed on a sickle, it gives a greater yield per strike of unbound magic. This is usually not a concern, since the other two tools hit three times (minimum) per node and generally even out, but it is worth noting. On picks and axes, it gives 1-3 unbound magic per strike and on sickles it gives 4-9 per strike.

    Hmmm, about that...

    When I first started using the new tools, I thought they had nerfed the sickle because I was only getting 1-3 UM per plant. But I was told by others that it had always been that way, and I realized that the juicy bonus amounts probably only come when harvesting special nodes like LS3 map currencies, not your average onions and zucchini. So that is only partly accurate.

    I find this strange, because post-update, I'm still getting 4-9 Unbound magic when harvesting onions, flax, or passiflora. I have exchanged my tool for the glyph version as well.

    EDIT: It appears I was remembering incorrectly, because it looks like there was indeed a nerf, though not as large of one as you're reporting. It's now yielding 3-6 unbound magic per strike on a sickle. I've updated the OP with corrected values.

    Okay. I went to the desert and picked flax, lentils and herbs for a while to see if I was crazy or my pick was broken. XD So far everything has given me 2 or 3 UM. Maybe I will try switching the glyph and see if it makes anything happen differently.

  • artemis.6781artemis.6781 Member ✭✭✭

    @notebene.3190 said:
    I'm not liking the fact that the home instance in Divinity's Reach is different from the other home instances. :/

    You can go to the other homes. I find rata to be the smoothest in node layout, tho I personally enjoy Hoelbrak. I avoid Divinity Reach like the plague.

  • @Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Cragga the Eighty Third.6015 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    Glyph of the Unbound
    This is currently the only glyph that behaves differently when placed on different tool types (not skins, types). When placed on a sickle, it gives a greater yield per strike of unbound magic. This is usually not a concern, since the other two tools hit three times (minimum) per node and generally even out, but it is worth noting. On picks and axes, it gives 1-3 unbound magic per strike and on sickles it gives 4-9 per strike.

    Hmmm, about that...

    When I first started using the new tools, I thought they had nerfed the sickle because I was only getting 1-3 UM per plant. But I was told by others that it had always been that way, and I realized that the juicy bonus amounts probably only come when harvesting special nodes like LS3 map currencies, not your average onions and zucchini. So that is only partly accurate.

    I find this strange, because post-update, I'm still getting 4-9 Unbound magic when harvesting onions, flax, or passiflora. I have exchanged my tool for the glyph version as well.

    EDIT: It appears I was remembering incorrectly, because it looks like there was indeed a nerf, though not as large of one as you're reporting. It's now yielding 3-6 unbound magic per strike on a sickle. I've updated the OP with corrected values.

    Okay. I went to the desert and picked flax, lentils and herbs for a while to see if I was crazy or my pick was broken. XD So far everything has given me 2 or 3 UM. Maybe I will try switching the glyph and see if it makes anything happen differently.

    Update: I am absolutely only getting 1-3 UM from harvesting normal veggies.

  • notebene.3190notebene.3190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @artemis.6781 said:

    @notebene.3190 said:
    I'm not liking the fact that the home instance in Divinity's Reach is different from the other home instances. :/

    You can go to the other homes. I find rata to be the smoothest in node layout, tho I personally enjoy Hoelbrak. I avoid Divinity Reach like the plague.

    Yeah I know, I just really like my home home. Sure be nice if they could change that.

    In the event I don't get a chance, thank you all for the company and help when I needed it from time to time.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    Glyph of Bounty
    This one seems straightforward, giving a 33% chance per strike of getting another strike on the node, but it has much more nuance than that. First and foremost, this additional strike itself gets the same chance of generating yet another strike. Theoretically, this can chain endlessly, but statistically speaking, you won't get too many more.

    Surely the bolded can't be true. There are other means of generating extra strikes (such as the Item Booster), and I've read that people can get those odds as high as 99%. (According to the fine folk over on reddit those bonuses are additive). If the bolded were true people would be able to generate infinite loot. That would have been exploited and nerfed by now.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    Glyph of Bounty
    This one seems straightforward, giving a 33% chance per strike of getting another strike on the node, but it has much more nuance than that. First and foremost, this additional strike itself gets the same chance of generating yet another strike. Theoretically, this can chain endlessly, but statistically speaking, you won't get too many more.

    Surely the bolded can't be true. There are other means of generating extra strikes (such as the Item Booster), and I've read that people can get those odds as high as 99%. (According to the fine folk over on reddit those bonuses are additive). If the bolded were true people would be able to generate infinite loot. That would have been exploited and nerfed by now.

    ~ Kovu

    I think what was meant is that theoretically, the chain could go on and on. On a practical basis, it can't happen. It's like saying, "in theory, you can flip a coin to heads 40 times in a row" but the odds against it are a billion to one.

    In this case, if there's a 33% chance without diminishing returns, then the odds of getting five bonus strikes from the same node are something like 243:1. It's entirely possible that the chance are reduced on a given node.

    I know that in the early days of Southsun, I could sometimes get four strikes on a passion node, without it counting against the 3 nodes/day cap. But never 5. So my guess is that there's a cap on bonus strikes or a diminishing returns factor, e.g. 33% for initial strike, 18% for a second bonus, 9 for a third, and so on. That would be consistent with what we see, short of having data from a few thousand attempts.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Vash.2386Vash.2386 Member ✭✭✭

    Thanks for this info, you answered a lot of my questions I had.

  • I just wanted to update my earlier post and confirm what Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said. I got my first "Harvester Glyph bonus" Tier 6 leather today, while I was harvesting a cloth node in my Guild Hall. Just one Hardened Leather so far, over the course of a week or so. So it's possible to get Tier 6 mats from any node but they are really, really rare... Not sure the Harvester Glyphs are worth the hundreds of gold they're selling for on the Trading Post though!

    Happy hunting!

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For those still interested, I can also confirm you can get tier six leather with this glyph. Got quite a few last night. :)

    No longer posting or playing.

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    Glyph of Bounty
    This one seems straightforward, giving a 33% chance per strike of getting another strike on the node, but it has much more nuance than that. First and foremost, this additional strike itself gets the same chance of generating yet another strike. Theoretically, this can chain endlessly, but statistically speaking, you won't get too many more.

    Surely the bolded can't be true. There are other means of generating extra strikes (such as the Item Booster), and I've read that people can get those odds as high as 99%. (According to the fine folk over on reddit those bonuses are additive). If the bolded were true people would be able to generate infinite loot. That would have been exploited and nerfed by now.

    ~ Kovu

    Turns out, guild tavern boost and banners don't add any chance at all of an extra strike, just enhance the possibility of getting more than one of a material in a single strike.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/36654/research-gathering-effects-of-guild-tavern-and-guild-banner-buffs#latest

    Boosters are still up in the air, but my own observations suggest that there very well could be a cap on extra strikes per node, though diminishing returns are unlikely.

    I need a bigger sample size to be certain. I'll be throwing on boosters tonight to find out for sure.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Hashberry.4510Hashberry.4510 Member ✭✭✭

    Put bounty on a plant tool today, surprised at how often it gave 3 to 4 procs on one plant.

  • artemis.6781artemis.6781 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2018

    Just throwing this out there, but I get a lot of T5 & T6 leathers. I think yesterday I had a total of 15 T6 leathers in maybe an hour of running around gathering stuff for fun and trying out different nodes. I use MF buffs from the guild hall, food, and banners.

    And it very well could have been that the RNG gods were looking down on me yesterday. I haven't been on today to try some more gathering experiments.

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2018

    Seriously . . . sticky this thread.

    No longer posting or playing.

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    I did some testing with Glyph of Bounty and a Gathering Booster, and the results were not entirely what I expected.

    These tests were done with the Bounty glyph and the Gathering Booster ONLY. No banner, no guild enhancement, no Heroic or Item booster. Tools used were with the Chop-it-all Logging Axe and Consortium Harvesting Sickle to avoid unusual hits/animation.

    The first one, I harvested 70 cypress/palm saplings (T5) and 7 Orrian saplings (T6)

    T5:
    1 extra hit: 70 saplings (100%)
    2 extra hits: 15 saplings (21.4%)
    3 extra hits: 4 saplings (5.7%)
    4 extra hits: 0 saplings (0%)

    T6:
    1 extra hit: 1 (14.3%)
    2 extra hits: 0 (0%)

    These are inclusive numbers, so all of the 3 extra hits are included in the 2 extra hits.

    The first thing that struck me was the massive disparity between the T5 and T6 on generating any extra hits at all. My best guess is that the Booster does not work at all on T6, since I know from experience that the glyph does.

    The second thing that struck me was the sheer regularity that the combination generated an extra strike on the T5. This seems to confirm that the chance is checked on every strike, as failing to do so on saplings would be only a 3.9% chance if the two stack additively and a 9% chance if they stack multiplicitvely. Given my small sample size, this seems reasonable.

    However, for any extra strikes beyond the first, it looks like only one of the two modifiers applies. My hypothesis here is that once one of the modifiers triggers (glyph or booster), the other "turns off" for that node.

    This was not the only test I did, however. I also tested on plants. This entire test was done in Sandswept Isles and had a variety of plants involved, a total of 30 plants.

    1 extra hit: 29 plants (96.7%)
    2 extra hits: 8 plants (26.7%)
    3 extra hits: 2 plants (6.7%)
    4 extra hits: 0 plants (0%)

    This I found unusual. Even assuming the item booster and glyph stack additively, I was well above average on first hits (average then would be 20, not 29). I acknowledge 30 plants is a small sample size, but this is well above expectations.

    Again, extra hits beyond the first suggest that one of the two modifiers "turns off" once the other procs.

    These tests, plus a number of unrecorded observations, suggests that there is a hard cap of 3 extra harvests and no more.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180

    These tests, plus a number of unrecorded observations, suggests that there is a hard cap of 3 extra harvests and no more.

    Extremely helpful again. This absolutely appears to be the case. A max of four total is all I've ever seen. So yes, it does appear the case with all nodes. Easiest to see with plants, but still noticeable with other nodes if one pays attention. While I would love there to be no hard cap, I absolutely understand why there is one. And rightfully so.

    Again, extremely helpful post and thank you for sharing.

    No longer posting or playing.

  • Omnicron.2467Omnicron.2467 Member ✭✭✭

    Quick question, so the Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast gathers three hits at the end of the animation, but without any extra strike buffs you only gather once from plants. So this functionality of the skin only applies when using the extra gathering strike buff right?

  • Ensign.2189Ensign.2189 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180

    These tests, plus a number of unrecorded observations, suggests that there is a hard cap of 3 extra harvests and no more.

    Extremely helpful again. This absolutely appears to be the case. A max of four total is all I've ever seen. So yes, it does appear the case with all nodes. Easiest to see with plants, but still noticeable with other nodes if one pays attention. While I would love there to be no hard cap, I absolutely understand why there is one. And rightfully so.

    Again, extremely helpful post and thank you for sharing.

    Note also that rich nodes never give extra hits - you get 10 total strikes regardless of booster.

    Adding all these factors up, you get just under half an additional strike from bounty on a plant node (.475), while a normal wood/ore node grants just over 1 additional strike per regular node (and nothing on a rich ore node).

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    @Omnicron.2467 said:
    Quick question, so the Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast gathers three hits at the end of the animation, but without any extra strike buffs you only gather once from plants. So this functionality of the skin only applies when using the extra gathering strike buff right?

    No, it works the same regardless. The unbound gathering tool doesn't give extra hits, but does give all the gathered items in one hit or animation. This does include the bonus from Glyph of the Bounty.

    For example, if I harvest a plant node with a sickle, and got four hits, I would have to hit 'F' four times. But with an Unbound skin, I would get the four hits, yet only have to hit 'F' once.

    Hope this answered your question. ☺

    No longer posting or playing.

  • @Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

    @Omnicron.2467 said:
    Quick question, so the Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast gathers three hits at the end of the animation, but without any extra strike buffs you only gather once from plants. So this functionality of the skin only applies when using the extra gathering strike buff right?

    No, it works the same regardless. The unbound gathering tool doesn't give extra hits, but does give all the gathered items in one hit or animation. This does include the bonus from Glyph of the Bounty.

    For example, if I harvest a plant node with a sickle, and got four hits, I would have to hit 'F' four times. But with an Unbound skin, I would get the four hits, yet only have to hit 'F' once.

    Hope this answered your question. ☺

    So then it seems that the unbound sickle is still better to use than the Consortium?

  • @MachineManXX.9746 said:

    @Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

    @Omnicron.2467 said:
    Quick question, so the Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast gathers three hits at the end of the animation, but without any extra strike buffs you only gather once from plants. So this functionality of the skin only applies when using the extra gathering strike buff right?

    No, it works the same regardless. The unbound gathering tool doesn't give extra hits, but does give all the gathered items in one hit or animation. This does include the bonus from Glyph of the Bounty.

    For example, if I harvest a plant node with a sickle, and got four hits, I would have to hit 'F' four times. But with an Unbound skin, I would get the four hits, yet only have to hit 'F' once.

    Hope this answered your question. ☺

    So then it seems that the unbound sickle is still better to use than the Consortium?

    If there's a high likelyhood of extra hits, yes. Low likelyhood then the Consortium is faster.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2018

    Wasnt the diff in gathering speed between the diff tools known for a while now?

    On everything else, good kitten m8

  • Omnicron.2467Omnicron.2467 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

    @Omnicron.2467 said:
    Quick question, so the Unbound Magic Harvesting Blast gathers three hits at the end of the animation, but without any extra strike buffs you only gather once from plants. So this functionality of the skin only applies when using the extra gathering strike buff right?

    No, it works the same regardless. The unbound gathering tool doesn't give extra hits, but does give all the gathered items in one hit or animation. This does include the bonus from Glyph of the Bounty.

    For example, if I harvest a plant node with a sickle, and got four hits, I would have to hit 'F' four times. But with an Unbound skin, I would get the four hits, yet only have to hit 'F' once.

    Hope this answered your question. ☺

    yes, thank you :) So the extra hits are "wasted" without a buff since you get one anyway :)

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2018

    I recently bought Glyph of the Bounty for all my tools. I've found, so far, that four total is the cap for plants. But for wood and minerals, six is the total cap I've gotten as far as hits. This does not include rich nodes. This is incredibly helpful for mining nodes if you need the 'currency' they also drop.

    For example, the crystals in the Sandswept Isle will always drop Volatile Magic, Empyreal Crystals, and often extra Difluorite Crystals. As of my experience, that's three extra hits of this material if you're lucky. I've heard rumor of some getting seven hits, but I cannot confirm. Please note, I used no boosters at the time of this testing.

    Will continue to research and test this.

    No longer posting or playing.

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2018

    Good writeup, but a few things need amending.

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    Rich veins have a whopping 97.2% chance of one extra strike, but, again, 33% for any after that.

    Rich veins can never give a bonus strike.

    It also does not work on synthesizers, like those found in WvW and in Guild halls.

    It does work on WvW synthesizers. This includes the leather and cloth nodes.

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    These tests, plus a number of unrecorded observations, suggests that there is a hard cap of 3 extra harvests and no more.

    I've flax farmed for what feels like over a year and I've used Item Boosters. You will never get more than 3 bonus strikes on a node - barring some exceptions in the opposite direction; Orrian Pearls will never give bonus strikes. The last node in a group of nodes, including the various Flax farms, will never give bonus strikes - and will deactivate any bonus strikes you have left on other nodes.

    Now that I've started using Glyph of Bounty as well I've also seen similar results to your test; harvesting on 59 characters daily since the release of the Glyph of Bounty, my anecdotal experience is that the first strike has an insanely high rate of enabling a second strike. My overall yields, though, imply that the +66% chance (or its 'real' +138% yield) is correct.

    @Ardenwolfe.8590 said:
    But with an Unbound skin, I would get the four hits, yet only have to hit 'F' once.

    The Unbound Harvesting Tool only hits three times. If you get three procs, and thus four harvests, you'll need to press it a second time.
    If you feel especially like minmaxing, you can switch to another sickle with a different glyph for the last strike, as the fourth harvest can never give you a bonus swing.

  • evilsofa.7296evilsofa.7296 Member ✭✭✭

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    Glyph of Bounty
    This one seems straightforward, giving a 33% chance per strike of getting another strike on the node, but it has much more nuance than that. First and foremost, this additional strike itself gets the same chance of generating yet another strike. Theoretically, this can chain endlessly, but statistically speaking, you won't get too many more. Secondly, The unbound skins mentioned above will immedietly harvest this additional strike, with the sickle even immedietly harvesting a second extra strike. Third, because my testing suggests that the chance is calculated on each strike, this means your typical saplings and ore nodes have ~70% chance to get at least one additional strike. That said, I have a small sample size, so more testing is needed to confirm this.

    It also appears that a node can only have one "extra strike" at a time. Once an extra strike has been generated, no more will be on that node until all "extras" are consumed. In other words, if the first strike on a sapling or ore node generates an extra, then the second and third will not do so. Once you harvest this "extra," you once again have a 33% chance of generating yet another. What this works out to on these nodes is a 70% chance of one extra strike, but only a 33% chance after that for additional strikes. Rich veins have a whopping 97.2% chance of one extra strike, but, again, 33% for any after that.

    However, it should be noted that this glyph does have some limitations on the nodes it works on. It does not function inside home instances with exception of the Black Lion Garden Plot, where it does. It also does not work on synthesizers, like those found in WvW and in Guild halls.

    Plant nodes are capped at 4 strikes total. Non-rich ore nodes and lumber nodes are capped at 6 strikes total. Rich ore nodes are capped at 10 strikes total, so the Glyph of Bounty or Item Booster will never have an effect on them. Those doing the rich ore mining route will want to use any glyph other than Bounty; one person reported being able to do the rich ore route in 15 minutes per character instead of 30 minutes per character with the Glyph of Industry but I cannot personally verify that.

    My experience with extra strikes on non-rich ore nodes and lumber notes is not at all what you describe. When mining non-rich ore nodes and lumber nodes, if more than one extra strike is generated in the first three strikes, they will all be available on the second activation of the node. For example, if the first three strikes on an ore node generates two extra strikes, when I mine the node for the second time, there are two strikes available and the activation mines both of them. I do not recall having to do a third activation on a non-rich ore node or lumber node yet, even though that should be possible. If it makes any difference, I am not using Item Booster with the Glyph of Bounty, and the permanent tools I am using are the Shifting Sands Mining Pick and the Lucky Dog Harvesting Tool.

    From the four flax farms, there are a total of 34 nodes (8 in Verdant Brink, 8 in Tangled Depths, 8 in Bloodstone Fen, 10 in Draconis Mons). With 9 characters, this normally got me a total of 306 nodes giving 306 strikes per day. The Glyph of Bounty increased this to 510 strikes per day. This is exactly 66.6667% more strikes per node, which is probably not a coincidence.

    Rules can be quite different on LW3 nodes. Petrified Stumps are capped at 16 nodes plus 2 strikes on the 17th node per day per account, even when using the Glyph of Bounty. Without the Glyph of Bounty, that would add up to 50 strikes; the Glyph of Bounty allows you to have more strikes but still only ever gets 2 strikes on the 17th node. Most of the other LW3 nodes are capped at a certain number of nodes per day per account but not strikes, so using the Glyph of Bounty on them is very effective and desirable for making ascended trinkets faster.

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2018

    Excellent addition. My experiences so far are the same. Four max for plants. Six max for trees and ores. I also noticed that the max I have gotten from Ancient Wood, Orrian Wood, and Ori ore is one extra. And only one. I'm guessing they're either capped that way or the extra drop rate is extremely low.

    Either way, Glyph of Bounty is easily my favorite glyph now. :)

    No longer posting or playing.

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2018

    @evilsofa.7296 said:

    My experience with extra strikes on non-rich ore nodes and lumber notes is not at all what you describe. When mining non-rich ore nodes and lumber nodes, if more than one extra strike is generated in the first three strikes, they will all be available on the second activation of the node. For example, if the first three strikes on an ore node generates two extra strikes, when I mine the node for the second time, there are two strikes available and the activation mines both of them. I do not recall having to do a third activation on a non-rich ore node or lumber node yet, even though that should be possible. If it makes any difference, I am not using Item Booster with the Glyph of Bounty, and the permanent tools I am using are the Shifting Sands Mining Pick and the Lucky Dog Harvesting Tool.

    I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. Nodes can only have 1 extra strike at a time, but harvesting an extra strike and generating a new one does not break the harvesting animation.

    If it behaved as you described, then we would see 2 extra strikes far more often on ore and wood nodes. As it is, there's a significant drop-off in frequency from 1 extra strike to 2 extra strikes, but not from 2 extra to 3 extra.

    As for rich nodes, I've edited the OP to take that into account.

    @Sarrs.4831 said:

    It also does not work on synthesizers, like those found in WvW and in Guild halls.

    It does work on WvW synthesizers. This includes the leather and cloth nodes.

    I haven't gotten it to work on WvW synthesizers, but I admit I don't spend a lot of time harvesting there.

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    These tests, plus a number of unrecorded observations, suggests that there is a hard cap of 3 extra harvests and no more.

    I've flax farmed for what feels like over a year and I've used Item Boosters. You will never get more than 3 bonus strikes on a node - barring some exceptions in the opposite direction; Orrian Pearls will never give bonus strikes. The last node in a group of nodes, including the various Flax farms, will never give bonus strikes - and will deactivate any bonus strikes you have left on other nodes.

    I've gotten extra harvests on Orrian Pearls, so I wouldn't say "never." You never will off the home instance one, though. I'll look into the flax farms, because what you're saying there doesn't make much sense. Not saying you're wrong, just saying it doesn't make sense for it to behave that way.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes, some Gathering Tools are faster than others by skin, which is why I picked the fastest skins. For example, gathering with the Thresher-Sickle 5000 can be interrupted the second you see the XP popping up, because that is when the gahering materials enter your inventory; that makes it an extremely fast-to-use tool (compared to the Dog, for instance).

  • evilsofa.7296evilsofa.7296 Member ✭✭✭

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    @Sarrs.4831 said:

    I've flax farmed for what feels like over a year and I've used Item Boosters. You will never get more than 3 bonus strikes on a node - barring some exceptions in the opposite direction; Orrian Pearls will never give bonus strikes. The last node in a group of nodes, including the various Flax farms, will never give bonus strikes - and will deactivate any bonus strikes you have left on other nodes.

    I've gotten extra harvests on Orrian Pearls, so I wouldn't say "never." You never will off the home instance one, though. I'll look into the flax farms, because what you're saying there doesn't make much sense. Not saying you're wrong, just saying it doesn't make sense for it to behave that way.

    What I do know is that if you leave an extra strike on any node, and move on and harvest another node, you will lose the extra strikes on that previous node. So you always want to finish out the extra strikes on the node you are working on before harvesting something else.

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2018

    On a side note, I've noticed that the 'currency' nodes operate under the same rules as their base node. For example, Wildberry bushes could give a maximum of three extra hits, for a total of four, like other plant nodes. And nodes like Petrified wood, while rare, could give three more hits for a total of six, like other tree nodes.

    Still, no luck getting more than one hit off tier six nodes though that weren't rich so far.

    I'll test Orrian pearls and the flax farm later today to confirm.

    No longer posting or playing.

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2018

    The flax farms in Tangled Depths and Verdant Brink, like all other farms I've encountered, would give me four hits total if I was lucky. No surprise there.

    Now, Orrian Pearls . . . that was a surprise. As far as I know, I farmed every, single pearl in the zone . . . and not one gave me an extra hit. In two cases, I got an extra pearl for a total of two from those nodes in one hit, but I believe that's normal regardless. So yes, Glyph of Bounty will not help with Orrian Pearls. Just to be sure, I'll file a bug report.

    I suspect this has to do with certain quests in the zone, but I'm hoping this is a bug instead. Yet, given how every other node in the zone gave me the usual amount of extra hits, I suspect it's not a bug and intended due to those above-mentioned quests.

    Just to be sure, I'll file a bug report.

    No longer posting or playing.

  • evilsofa.7296evilsofa.7296 Member ✭✭✭

    Orrian Pearls do not give extra strikes.

    I just harvested 84 Orrian Pearl nodes. On one character, instead of 21 Orrian Pearls, it had collected 22, but there had been no extra strikes and there were 21 Oysters harvested. I did not get that extra pearl from a daily bonus chest. Perhaps it is possible to rarely get two Orrian Pearls in one harvest (I did not notice it when it happened), but however I got it, it was not from an extra strike.

  • evilsofa.7296evilsofa.7296 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2018

    WARNING WARNING WARNING

    This weekend, we now have a Bonus Weekend Event boon on all characters, which includes "33% chance of earning extra resources when gathering."

    Take this into consideration when collecting data on gathering.

    Edit:
    "The gathering portion of this Bonus Weekend Event specifically provides players with a 33% chance to gain an extra strike while gathering, much in the same way that items like the Item/Heroic Boosters and the Glyph of Bounty work. (Side note: those special gathering effects will stack with the event bonuses this weekend, so gathering could be very rewarding!) To put the bonus another way, you will not have a 33% chance of earning more materials on each individual gathering strike, but instead may get a "bonus strike" at any node. The net result is the same: more loot!"

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/37064/bonus-weekend-event-gathering-tool-information#latest

  • evilsofa.7296evilsofa.7296 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ardenwolfe.8590 said:
    The flax farms in Tangled Depths and Verdant Brink, like all other farms I've encountered, would give me four hits total if I was lucky. No surprise there.

    Now, Orrian Pearls . . . that was a surprise. As far as I know, I farmed every, single pearl in the zone . . . and not one gave me an extra hit. In two cases, I got an extra pearl for a total of two from those nodes in one hit, but I believe that's normal regardless. So yes, Glyph of Bounty will not help with Orrian Pearls. Just to be sure, I'll file a bug report.

    I suspect this has to do with certain quests in the zone, but I'm hoping this is a bug instead. Yet, given how every other node in the zone gave me the usual amount of extra hits, I suspect it's not a bug and intended due to those above mentioned quests.

    Just to be sure, I'll file a bug report.

    I'm going to guess that it's working as intended, because the tradeoffs for no extra strikes are:
    1. You can farm the 21 or so nodes with each character each day
    2. You get at least one Orrian Pearl on every harvest.
    That makes it the second most plentiful harvest per account per day after Winterberries. All of the others have much more severe restraints on how many you can harvest each day. In fact, I suspect the no extra strikes rule was done in order to make Orrian Pearls not as plentiful as Winterberries so it would be difficult to generate 6 ascended backpacks in a single day.

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