We need an official position from ANET about ARCDPS and TACO

I discovered Taco about a week ago. Found it fantastic for a casual not so good player like me. Now I see this post about banned accounts. Now I know, some players will say it's accepted by anet because there would be way more bans, some will say no it's not because they were only using taco as 3rd party app and were banned... But what I want is a resolute and absolute answer from the developers. A clear "yes you can use it", "no you can't" or "yes but do not do this or that with it".

I am for banning cheaters and all but I really think it should help to know more exactly what is not permitted for naive people like me to not use a forbidden app by mistake. I do not find it really helpful to be told "we banned people for wrongdoing" without telling what the wrong is. (and I know anet say we cannot use 3rd party but this is far from specific).

I am also aware that it would be opening a pandora's box if anet gave a list of forbidden 3rd party apps , as some people would profit by using malicious apps not on the list and then say "ah ah ah! you didn't say it wasn't permitted!" but if we at least had a list of 2 or 3 apps that anet did approve of officially it would take a load off some shoulders (ie mine at least).

I'm asking one of the TacO programmers now. Given his liberal use and development, the answer should be clear. If he responds, I'll post it here for all to read. Hopefully, it'll answer some of these questions.

If an addon is "legal" or not can change with any update to the addon that changes or adds features of it. But I guess Anet will post a PSA if a former "legal" addon turns "illegal"

@"Malediktus.9250" said:If an addon is "legal" or not can change with any update to the addon that changes or adds features of it. But I guess Anet will post a PSA if a former "legal" addon turns "illegal"

One would hope.

This is getting ridiculous, ANet really just needs to go back to their original policy of not allowing addons, and if a feature is requested enough, put in the bloody work to add it to the game themselves.

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Arcdps still okay, ANet? Or are we just going to play the "It's okay until I ban you" game?

If it were me, I'd refuse to use any third-party software after this fiasco. Mind you, I've never used third-party software and I never will but it's better to be safe than sorry.

I have to admit, I'm surprised at ANet's sudden silence on the forum about this. Well . . . beyond the statement that has left everyone guessing. Hopefully, they'll announce something more exact soon.

11 months ago,

Chris Cleary wrote

:I haven't seen anything that TACO is doing that would violate the rules set forward with the fair usage of the mumble API.

(If you read further, one of QT's infamous members asks some follow-up questions, with some helpful responses by TACO's developer, some of which remain relevant today.)

Blaming Anet for the tizzy that people are creating for themselves makes no sense.

1583 accounts got suspended. More than 1583 people use taco. It can be inferred that simply using taco won't get you banned. It's that easy.

@Greener.6204 said:Blaming Anet for the tizzy that people are creating for themselves makes no sense.

1583 accounts got suspended. More than 1583 people use taco. It can be inferred that simply using taco won't get you banned. It's that easy.

Unless in some cases TACO triggered false positive result for anet.

The reason they won't list which addons are usable and which are not is probably (in my opinion) arenanet is join forces with other game companies to study botter and hacker psychology. Doing this - they can't release much information or their plans on how they go about doing things. In order to win the arms race against abusive 3rd party programs anet has to take certain measures and precautions not to reveal information and fight the war against them.

Here's my advice: if it is not part of the official game client, don't use it. That way, you have a 0% chance of being banned.

I've played this franchise for many years without a single add-on & I have enjoyed every minute of it. Just stop using add-ons and you'll be fine.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Greener.6204 said:Blaming Anet for the tizzy that people are creating for themselves makes no sense.

1583 accounts got suspended. More than 1583 people use taco. It can be inferred that simply using taco won't get you banned. It's that easy.

Or it could be a brand of GPU's which triggered a false positive; or perhaps the type of mouse that someone used; or perhaps what someone ate for breakfast. People can trick themselves into believing anything without proof. Blaming Anet for one's self-delusion is silly. There's no reason to think it's taco, but if you want to keep believing it, go ahead. Just make sure to track what you eat for breakfast, too.

@"Anthony.7630" said:The reason they won't list which addons are usable and which are not is probably (in my opinion) arenanet is join forces with other game companies to study botter and hacker psychology. Doing this - they can't release much information or their plans on how they go about doing things. In order to win the arms race against abusive 3rd party programs anet has to take certain measures and precautions not to reveal information and fight the war against them.

Except, they keep saying 3rd party software is "use at your own risk", which is okay. But at the same time they're actively advertising TACO in their social media. Also actively advertising benchmarks for professions created with help of ArcDPS.

So either they do this and give full white list of accepted apps or they treat them equally and not advertise them at all. Because Anet itself is sending contradictory messages about these apps.

@Greener.6204 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Greener.6204 said:Blaming Anet for the tizzy that people are creating for themselves makes no sense.

1583 accounts got suspended. More than 1583 people use taco. It can be inferred that simply using taco won't get you banned. It's that easy.

There's also no reason to believe all bans are 100% justified. There were cases like this in the past. Your sarcasm is cute however I don't believe I deserve such treatment from you. Something could trigger false positive on Anet's side, no matter what it was it needs to be investigated.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Greener.6204 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Greener.6204 said:Blaming Anet for the tizzy that people are creating for themselves makes no sense.

1583 accounts got suspended. More than 1583 people use taco. It can be inferred that simply using taco won't get you banned. It's that easy.

The way you phrase it suggests that you believe that most of the suspensions are unjustified and that you assume that ANet doesn't investigate beyond the initial trigger of an alleged false positive. Without knowing if there are any false positives, you're already pointing a finger at one program that thousands and thousands of people use. It's simply hard to take your allegations seriously if you aren't bothering to connect any actual facts to the suppositions.

What we know is: under 1600 people got suspended, some are claiming they did nothing wrong, and some are claiming they only used Arc and/or TACO. But we also know that whenever there's a wave of suspensions, there are always people who claim they didn't deserve it when they know full well that they did. Many of those who publicly claim foul are proven wrong in the end.

So sure, it's hyperbole to compare breakfast choices to use of TACO as a potential issue, but it's also hyperbole to suggest that TACO is a potential issue in the first place. Maybe people shouldn't respond to over-exaggeration with more exaggeration, but maybe it would be better not to exaggerate in the first place.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Greener.6204 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Greener.6204 said:Blaming Anet for the tizzy that people are creating for themselves makes no sense.

1583 accounts got suspended. More than 1583 people use taco. It can be inferred that simply using taco won't get you banned. It's that easy.

No, what I say it's possible to get unjustified ban. It's all in the context of Gaile posting about not accepting appeals. I am pretty sure most of these bans are justified however even a single case like this shouldn't be ignored.

Did you read the "THIRDPARTYSOFTWAREREADME.txt" right next to the launcher in the game folder?

@"garrettx.3452" said:But what I want is a resolute and absolute answer from the developers. A clear "yes you can use it", "no you can't" or "yes but do not do this or that with it".

Anet will never give any resolute and absolute list of "allowed" programs no matter how much you want it. They do not even have to know every possible program, plugin, addon, thisandthat exists, even more spend their limited time and resources to install and review all of these.

Even if they did review a program and call it "allowed", it would still only apply to one specific version of that program. They can not know what features it will add some time in the future, how it will be changed or if it will accidentially or on purpose break the game couple years from now. Now add to this combination of 3rd party addons, where each one of these alone does not break that much but once they all work together, you have gone surely over the line. Will you start to publish lists of all these programs where A+B+C-D will be banned but A-B+C+D is not?

If you are so worried about the possible use, then do not use any 3rd party apps.

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:I'm asking one of the TacO programmers now. Given his liberal use and development, the answer should be clear. If he responds, I'll post it here for all to read. Hopefully, it'll answer some of these questions.

If he does not work for Anet, the answer is just a opinion of some random guy. He can not give any quarantee about using his program.

@FogLeg.9354 said:

@"garrettx.3452" said:But what I want is a resolute and absolute answer from the developers. A clear "yes you can use it", "no you can't" or "yes but do not do this or that with it".

@"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:I'm asking one of the TacO programmers now. Given his liberal use and development, the answer should be clear. If he responds, I'll post it here for all to read. Hopefully, it'll answer some of these questions.

I am under the impression Anet crossed the line of "use at your own risk" in case of TACO when they advertised in in their social media.

Social media is not legal document. Some Anet emplyee using 3rd party program in some video or tweeting about it does not make it officially "allowed" from now on forever into the future.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:There's also no reason to believe all bans are 100% justified. There were cases like this in the past. Your sarcasm is cute however I don't believe I deserve such treatment from you. Something could trigger false positive on Anet's side, no matter what it was it needs to be investigated.

My sarcasm was not intended to be directed at you personally, for that you have my apologies. It was directed at those who are causing needless fear in others. I strongly dislike people who do that.Could there be false positives? Of course. Is it a smart thing to toss around, "It could be arc!" or "It could be taco!" without any proof and while disregarding the actual harm it causes people who hear these claims? Heck no. Not all people are educated in how these programs work, and when they see unjustified claims being spammed around the forums, nothing good will come of it.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:So sure, it's hyperbole to compare breakfast choices to use of TACO as a potential issue, but it's also hyperbole to suggest that TACO is a potential issue in the first place. Maybe people shouldn't respond to over-exaggeration with more exaggeration, but maybe it would be better not to exaggerate in the first place.

Noted. I should know better than to type while mentally drained.

@"FogLeg.9354" said:Social media is not legal document. Some Anet emplyee using 3rd party program in some video or tweeting about it does not make it officially "allowed" from now on forever into the future.

It's their official channel of communication. If they advertise this tool, they show their customers it's allowed.

@"FogLeg.9354" said:Social media is not legal document. Some Anet emplyee using 3rd party program in some video or tweeting about it does not make it officially "allowed" from now on forever into the future.

It's their official channel of communication. If they advertise this tool, they show their customers it's allowed.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Greener.6204 said:Blaming Anet for the tizzy that people are creating for themselves makes no sense.

1583 accounts got suspended. More than 1583 people use taco. It can be inferred that simply using taco won't get you banned. It's that easy.

Maybe on some cases their mouse drivers caused false positive too, they probably shouldn't use a mouse. ;)