Anyone else dislike Scourge? Why?

I'm not trying to start a hate thread. Anet did a wonderful job with mechanics and visuals, this isn't about that. I'm just curious how many others have given Scourge a go and felt that they didn't enjoy it.

I'm a little upset that I feel this way. I didn't care much for Reaper and now I don't like Scourge either. Although this is entirely my own fault, it's disappointing being stuck with vanilla Necro after two expansions. I was really hoping this would be the spec that would draw me away from it.

Gotta say that so far I like the Scourge in open world play. Of course, everything's viable to some degree or another open-world, so that's not saying a lot. How useful it will be in all game modes I can't say. But the play style feels strong.

I have to say that the trying to make a build feels a little disjoint: what "shroud" and "shroud skill" traits work and how, what other trait lines synergize, etc?

Why do you dislike it? And why do you dislike Reaper? I mean it's very subjective but I think both specs add some flavour to the Necromancer.

Love Reaper, HATE scourge. How does a warrior suddenly forget how to use a weapon? Not logical. Replace GS with a torch, seriously?? I wont be using Scourge.

I’m enjoying it, actually. Granted all I have done is open world and story at this point but it has been pretty fun so far. Playing power scourge and while not meta by any stretch of the imagination it is nice to actually have some fairly nice burst aoe direct damage. I will probably find a condi set at some point bit I think scourge is pretty fun. Then again I’m a simple animal.

Also, if you do not like Reaper and you do not like Scourge, maybe Necro just isnt the class for you. That is not a bad thing there are many options. I wouldnt try to stick with something you do not like just because you want to like it.

I like the new mechanic, add a lot of different thing on the table and grant a real chance to make new builds.We asked to be able to don't play using a Shroud mechanic because make us unable to obtain real balance and defensive skills and we "obtained" that. But here comes the things I don't like: the only thing i don't like is that we had a great chance to finally obtain Real Defensive Skills and we obtain Nothing!

The scourge have barriers that work as a really Weak shroud and cost us utility and LF that we should use in offensive ways instead.A single real defensive skill like Immunity should be great, but no, ANet didn't grant us anything good (transform into sand or obtain a sand armor to mimic other classes skills, things like that... nothing...)

But the mechanic is strong and really good. there's different problems with traits that don't synergie at all with the new mechanic, but there's chances to great new builds.

That mechanic totally change how the class work, eventually too much, but is really good. A way to restart with a new way to play.

From a WvW roaming pov, has been tough against skilled HOT elites but I'm not stopping yet. It's only the first day!Too early to give up and not give it more play time.

So my first day of PoF I ran into a camp of bathazar dudes as a scourge.There were champions and tons of trash mobs. I cleaved them all down with torch 4, scepter 2, and epidemic to abuse parasitic contagion. I also popped barrier and used .. shit what would we call it? sand 2? The condition conversion. To turn my self bleeds from blood is power into vigor for more evasion spam.It took a long time, and quite a few downs, but I eventually killed the champions while my firebrand friend laid there dead. Felt good lmao.

In PVE, punishments are boooooooriiiiiing. Granted, shouts weren't all that imaginative either, but still, at least they did something. And the only punishment with any noteworthy combat effect is a ripoff of Spectral Walk. Yay.

I really tried to like Scourge (and I am still trying), but so far, I just can't.

Especially open world is an absolute slog. Trait decisions don't feel like which benefit I want to choose, but more like in which way I want to cripple myself.Do I want to spend half the fight re summoning Shades that Mobs by sheer accident constantly walk out of because they are so small (or I want to interrupt them and fear them out of my own field of control, who even designed this?), or do I want to have some QoL AoE that I can keep mobs in, but hit like a wet noodle?

Do I want to wail my auto attack for what feels like an eternity at every basic mob that catches me in combat, or spend massive amounts of my class resource to use my only real damaging ability on them, which I then have to build up again slowly in the next fight I get into, since it doesn't regenerate out of combat (which was annoying but fine for the Shroud mechanic, it feels incredibly annoying for this spendable resource).Reaper Ice + Spin combo is not only stronger condi burst, but also much cheaper LF wise + disables mobs (not even considering Greatswords pull and blind, chill and bleed field).

The Utility skills, maybe aside the Stunbreak are ignoreable, so is the Elite skill.We still run the exact same build as Condi Reaper for the last 2 years, just clunkier, with less surviveability, mobility (who thought that was possible) and less burst.The only thing Scourge adds is slightly higher sustained damage without relying on chill fields (and a real nice on demand condi clear), while sacrificing everything that made Reaper fun for me.

But that slight boost to dps probably will force people into playing this less fun Reaper under pressure of the "muh meta" crowd.

So yea, actually considering switching mains...

(That said, it will probably be my WvW Zerg Corrupt bot, so there is that).

It would take a VERY COOL spec to get me to stop playing Reaper. (like a super mobile, life-steal based vampiric spectre ... or a bad ass minion master with actual skeleton pets and not bone and meat monsters).

So far, scourge has proved very viable and engaging in a wvw zerg environment. We bring an insane amount of condi clear to 10 of our people with F2 and every barrier skill (traited). For pve, I play other classes!

Personally, I hate Condi crap. I hate even more that the current meta is all about Condi. With Scourge, it appears ANET is catering to the meta instead of changing things up, while shafting players that 'don't play a class the way ANET wants them to'. I love Power Reaper, always have always will. Scourge itself is a great Elite Spec and any Condi Necro should be running it without a doubt, but standing there stacking up Condis without having to put much effort into it and watching the system do all of the work for you, no thanks. Condi will forever be cheap and boring to me. Hence why I hate Scourge. That being said, I still bought the highest tier pre-order for the xpac cuz I do love the game and ANET does a phenomenal job with the game so I still want to show my support. But being force-fed more Condi crap just makes the game more and more stale. They need to open up more build options content-wide instead of just going 'well you can use whatever in PvE so yeah'. Can't really 'use whatever' when Raids won't let me in because I'm not running Epidemic and Viper's. I just feel like ANET is too driven by the majority. So what if everyone is running Condi? Cool! Leave it where it is and focus on the weaker parts like Power, Bruiser, Tank, etc. Death Magic is one of my favorite Trait lines but it does need a bit of tweaking I feel (like allowing Unholy Fervor to convert with Deadly Strength).

Anyways Scourge is ok, nothing wrong with it and it's every Condi Necro's dream come true. But I am not a Condi Necro, so I'm stuck with another year of disappointment it seems. On the bright side: the next xpac should be more along my lines if this last one was their big Condi 'buff'.

@Wintermute.5408 said:In PVE, punishments are boooooooriiiiiing. Granted, shouts weren't all that imaginative either, but still, at least they did something. And the only punishment with any noteworthy combat effect is a ripoff of Spectral Walk. Yay.

Actually, they are exactly as boring as shouts were on release. Because then, they only got their effects if they actually hit something, and had no base effect (eg Rise would not summon anything if used without a target , you would gain no LF from "Your soul is mine" etc. Granted, hitting something was still a lot better than having to rely on enemies having boons... I still cannot believe they fucked up this bad with the elite spec utilities twice in a row.

@Exqq.7451 said:

Also, if you do not like Reaper and you do not like Scourge, maybe Necro just isnt the class for you. That is not a bad thing there are many options. I wouldnt try to stick with something you do not like just because you want to like it.

No, I am a Necromancer at heart and it is my oldest and most played class. I'm not bored with it nor do I dislike it. I'm just upset that both elite specs don't appeal to me as much as I wish they would.

I very strongly love and enjoy vanilla Necromancer, but I think it's reasonable to be a little let down that I don't enjoy playing it the different ways that Anet has created. Again though, I'm not saying that Scourge is bad nor am I upset with Anet. Just upset that this elite spec isn't something else - even if I don't know exactly what I'd like it to be.

@Nyel.1843 said:Why do you dislike it? And why do you dislike Reaper? I mean it's very subjective but I think both specs add some flavour to the Necromancer.

I dislike Scourge because I dislike not having Shroud and I dislike Sand Shades. I understand that Barrier is technically a better Shroud, but I don't enjoy how it feels in my hands, so to speak. I may change my mind after extended play, but as of now, I've continued to use vanilla Necromancer through out the new content.

As for Reaper, it's a similar dilemma, except that I just prefer Death Shroud over Reaper Shroud. I enjoy that it's ranged and I have a very strong love for Dark Path, which I personally find to be a very fun skill. I like shouts, greatsword and many Reaper traits, I also very much enjoy power Reaper in PvE. I just dislike Reaper Shroud, which is the only thing that really holds me back from using it very often.

I don't like the shade mechanic. It's clucky everywhere but WvW.

Grant the entire spec was basically built for WvW only so.

To me it just doesn't feel good to play. It felt good to play as a Necromancer, felt great to play as Reaper. This just feels.....underwhelming. There is no reason sand swell shouldn't have a 1200 range. Why not add barrier to trail of anguish utility as well, since barrier gains aren't that much to begin with? Or increase barrier all together? I'm not angry, just disappointed.

I like scourge - I will likely stick with the class if it doesn't get nerfed again.

I am really disappointed it isn't supporty at all, but it sure is effective. Reaper feels glacially slow in comparison. Hard to go back to that.

I'll be honest with you, lots of bandwagon jumped on Necro because of Reaper = me. I also had this suggestion of Reaper spec idea like a year into core game. To play Necro is to become Death himself, or a minion master, imo. Now with Scourge and Power Reaper nowhere to be seen, I do believe the class itself has lost a lot fans.

I am usually on my own (roaming, solo Q) so the spec is trash for me because:

• too clunky in roaming and sPvP (especially in melee)
• too much micromanagement kills all the fun (the skillbar is overloaded and s.h.a.d.e.s require constant adjustments - you need 3 hands to play scourge to its full potential)
• has the same "weak to CC" issues like core necro (which was the reason I stopped playing necro till reaper was announced)
• more squishy than reaper but not significantly more damage (i am talking about power builds!)

The only 2 positive things I can say about scourge:

• great reliable (!) condi cleanse capabilities - not these stupid transfers that are blocked, evaded etc. all day
• great synergy with blood magic traitline (dagger movement speed increase, leeching, transfusion) - I like the traitline itself, but it's useless on every non wells focused necro/reaper build

I like scourge more than reaper, but I like core necro more than both.

Both scourge and reaper suffer from the same fundamental problem, their trait lines are bad.

I do like how sand shades are sort of like wells, but not quite. I need to play around with it more. I finished the story on the Crystal Oasis and switched back from scourge to necro because of how hard I'd get hit in story missions vs. base necro.

I'm undecided at the moment. On one hand, the amount of condition removal/corruption added in with condition damage is great. On the other hand, it's far too easy to avoid it... like way too easy. I've only found use for it in a choke situation, where you can say litter a hallway or bridge with shades where everyone is clustered. Aside from that, I find it next to useless. The sand portal is situational (but still cool), the sand trail skill is not bad, the new elite I do like, the other 2 punishment skills are meh to me.

I still do far more damage as a shout reaper (both single target, and WvW setting), so I'll be sticking with that. I also found, the condition dump a reaper provides tears through barriers given by scourge quite easily.

Part of the problem is for me, is I don't like carrying a mainly single target weapon basically "weapon+torch" is. I'd rather carry a great sword, it's more useful. In a perfect world for me, I'd be carrying a great sword, 2 shout utilities, 1 punishment utility, and the new scourge elite. I'd also prefer the shades to pretty much drop at the location and start pulsing their abilities vs having to ground target, then press whatever F keys on top of that. They are just far too easy to avoid the way they are now. I know none of this will change.

I only play PvE and WvW and I find the Reaper to perform superior in both game modes... unless it's situational in WvW using chokes, or the odd time when your party needs portals.

@Hesacon.8735 said:I like scourge more than reaper, but I like core necro more than both.

Both scourge and reaper suffer from the same fundamental problem, their trait lines are bad.

I'd argue the opposite, their traitlines are our only good ones.

Only done open world and story quest, but enjoying it more than I thought I would. Lots of AoE burst. The main damage recharges n 16 seconds which is more than acceptable. Jump into a group, throw F1, F3, F5, stuff melts and I'm getting my LF back while healing like mad from Parasitic Contagion.

Of course on a long fight without adds the Scourge will have the LF problems we know of, but so far so good. I wasn't expecting it. Even started PoF as a DE but it did not hold my interest.

Is it only me that feels like scourge being kinda weak in terms of survivability and too much torment orientated skills, against mobs that mostly stand still doesn't add to the damage? Just a first impression and with an experimental build though, still trying to learn the playstyle which seems quite different than the reaper.