WvW Commanders rule: no Ranger, Druid, Dragonhunter, Scrapper, etc

It's been bugging me for a while now. GW2 is a social game but do commanders have right to tell people which profession should they play?? I'm a semi-casual player though many times I get pretty good in WvW and PvP.And in WvW some of the commanders just straightforward tell you that they don't want this and that class. Which I think is unfair because from my point of view is like... I paid for/chose this game and I play as I please. I'd rather look for a different commander than play with someone who tells me which character I should play. I'm "lucky" enough that I have all the professions playable (but 4-5 of them are my mains). What about people who have no such profession?? It sucks!

If a commander wishes to have only certain professions in his/hers squad, he/she should organize a squad from their guild/friends, etc that would go for their rules.THIS IS A THING THAT REALLY NEEDS SOME KIND OF TECHNICAL SOLUTION!!

(Or commanders stop being so picky ;p)

If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, that player also has a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

Ok.. what about commanders that don't run a squad and just tell you they don't want you in whatever group is following them? I've seen this happening many times too.

And about verbal harassing. They way some of them tell you not to play this or that class sound quite often like semi- harassment. I mean, what kind of atmosphere and message it sends to you if your fav profession is unwanted? I think it's a bigger problem than just "your squad, your rules", especially if commanders make these rules when not having any squad.And many commanders somehow is able to run in the game with whatever people follow the tag and they have no problem with commanding. So what does this say about some commanders?

@Avelione.6075 said:Ok.. what about commanders that don't run a squad and just tell you they don't want you in whatever group is following them? I've seen this happening many times too.

Then either ignore what the commander is saying and keep running with them, or go find a different group to run with.

@RoseofGilead.8907 said:

@Avelione.6075 said:Ok.. what about commanders that don't run a squad and just tell you they don't want you in whatever group is following them? I've seen this happening many times too.

See, it's a problem. Most people has limited time to play so it's a bad luck if they cannot find any commander, or find a commander that doesn't want them :/ In or outside the squad. We don't have commanders 24/7 and there are no mentors in WvW (maybe they should be!)

I've been playing long and often enough to observe that about 20%-30% of commanders has some kind of restrictions about the classes, usually they don't want Ranger/Druid. This is statistically significant. Enough to start bugging me.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

But where do you draw the line, your saying they have the right to not let certain classes in, can also exclude people they don't like? Can also exclude people of certain religions or ethnicity too? Oh now it's against tos. Hard to know how or why people are excluded. I think that in wvw if your tagged up, anyone from your server can join,unless it's a guild group comprised 100% of guild members.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

Agreed.

It can be annoying, but commanders do get to set the rules for their squad and as long as it's not violating the rules of the game itself those can be whatever they want. But equally players get to decide which squad/s they join and if enough people don't like the strict rules the commanders making them will be left with an empty squad.

The problem of course is when there aren't many other options. If you want to play WvW you've only got 4 maps to choose from (5 if you count Edge of the Mists) and I think a lot of worlds have an unofficial rule of only having 1 public squad per map (there can be others, usually small roaming guild squads, but they generally don't let anyone else join) so if you don't like a commander your options are limited.

There's been times when I've loaded into WvW, found a commander, joined the squad, seen the squad message and left immediately, even knowing I'll have to either go to a map I like less or skip playing WvW that evening, because they've set rules I think are overly strict or absurd, even if they don't affect me directly (like one which demanded you mail an item to the commander to prove you're not playing a free account). Fortunately I only play WvW sporadically so for me it's not a problem if I have to do something else for an evening.

If they're crossing the line into verbal abuse then you should report them, but you still can't do anything about it except report and leave to find another squad.

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to excluding people they don't like or religions. I only saw commanders not wanting certain professions in their group (in a squad or without running a squad). However, I'm sure there is plenty of personal drama going on in there too, so, who knows?? I also saw multiple times random people removing other (random or not?) people from squads.STILL, it is a problem for a random player who just wants to play WvW for a bit and has a bad luck.

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

Why are people attempting to join a squad in wvw bringing up their ethnicity and religion?

I understand peoples quarrels with this, but think of it from their perspective. Commanders, at least the majority of them, want to win fights. If you aren't running a class that brings some kind of support to the party, you are effectively dead weight. The only class I can think of that doesn't actually bring party support, but is generally welcomed, is staff weaver, but the large AOE dmg skills make up for it. Ranger is single target, and is not effective in a large group. Not to say they aren't effective at all, but they do not need to be in the squad. A ranger, much like a thief or mesmer (save for a boonshare mesmer), are great for picking the outliers from the enemy zerg, so they wouldn't be close enough to their teammates to benefit from any buffs.

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

You've pretty much answered your own question: the TOS is the line. If a commanders rules are violating it then they're not allowed and should be reported, if not then they're ok. Although I'm not sure how a commander is going to check a players real life race or religion, unless you've put it in your character name.

Admittedly if you joined a squad and got kicked immediately without explanation it's hard to know why it happened, but if you join and the squad message says "no rangers, no druids, no dragonhunters" it's a pretty safe bet they are actually trying to exclude those professions and not using it as some kind of secret code for what they actually want.

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

It was an example used to show that there is a clear line for when commanders are out of line. So since there is an established line of what commanders cannot do, I'm questioning the grey area below it where they exclude based on class or any other reason that is not as extreme as ethnicity or religion. Then I'm throwing into question why they should be able to exclude at all in a wvw setting where one server is supposed to work together on maps where usually one and only one commander tag is present, thus neutering the ability of another more accepting commander to tag up in that map.

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

Right, and in the example given, the commander is working as leader of a team for the advancement of the server.

Structuring his squad for greatest (theoretical) impact based on readily available data aids in this.

Someone insisting on a spot in a squad despite not fitting the needs of the squad is the one seeking to not work together for the common good.

I say this as a ranger main who, currently, spends the majority of my play time in WvW.

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

They aren't, he just had to use an outrageous and extreme example to make his point look better.

Here's what it is. If I don't want to play a video game with you, I won't. If I'm a leader of a group, I will reserve my right to pick who I want in my group. If I don't want certain classes, then I'm not taking them. This isn't some kindergarten inclusion zone. It's not my problem you chose to play the game in a way I deem ineffective, and I won't hamper my own time and enjoyment just to cater to you. And if it ever comes to extremes like that? It's still a video game that I use my time and money to enjoy, and if I don't want to play with you for whatever reason, I will make my own group with it's own requirements, because my time is mine alone, and I choose how to spend it.

@Asltok.4327 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

I feel like you should only be able to scrutinize if you have a 100% guild squad, as soon as you take in a pug, I don't feel like you should be able to exclude for any reason.

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Asltok.4327 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

Player 1 should never be able to force player 2 to play with him.

If we are going to use outrageous examples here:

Forcing someone else to play with you, when they do not wish to do so, is slavery.

Slavery is bad.

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Asltok.4327 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

How is that slavery? Nothing forced about it, make the commander use all guildies or don't tag up at all. Nobody forcing anyone to tag up.

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Asltok.4327 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

Forcing someone else to work for you when they do not wish to do so is slavery. Commanding in WvW is work (remember that work is a measure of effort and so even play is work).

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Asltok.4327 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

So they can just not tag up if they can't work with others, nothing forced about it. They are supposed to lead for the greater good, and utilize everyone.

Double post

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Asltok.4327 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

The example was of an existing tag in which the commander has expressed his desire regarding with whom he desired to play, and which someone else, choosing to not meet the commander's set preference, sought to require the commander to play with him.

Sure the commander could then tag down, to escape being forced to work for someone else against his will, but the ability to run away from forced servitude does not render it to be other than slavery.

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Asltok.4327 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

There is nothing to utilize for the group if someone is running a selfish build that brings no party support at all.

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Asltok.4327 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

That makes no sense. So the person who wants to play a game mode, regardless of how is selfish, but the person who has designated themselves as the leader and wants their squad tailor made and excludes others so everything is there way or the highway is not selfish?

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Asltok.4327 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

No, because that tailor made squad produces the highest chance of winning fights FOR THE SERVER.

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

@"RoseofGilead.8907" said:If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here.

There's no such thing as "advancement of the server". There's just some numbers reset to zero every friday and climbing up bit by bit until they're reset again. Forever and ever. Amen.