I really want to make a daze spec, but...

But our daze durations are horrible. 1/4s on polaric leap... come on now. 1s seems to be the max from other skills.If we switch scholar to mesmer rune for 33% daze duration, it's not enough.I'd like to see a control combo based on daze for eles put in so we can get on the boonstrip bandwagon via the Superior Sigil of Absorption.I want to do it with staff for WvW. Static and gust, or static and pile driver, with tempest defense are extremely gimmicky ways to apply daze. Static not so much, but the other two are very unpredictable. One good thing about pile driver is that it pierces, but most of the time I've used this the person dodges randomly before it lands, or they will have some other effect on them that negates it. It needs to also be unblockable. It is good on paper because it stays 5 targets and 1200 range, but getting it to work is very unreliable.I know comet is another way, but meh. That's not good vs large numbers to play without a staff on.

That's like asking for a chill warrior, or siphon GD, or boon corrupt thief. Ele isn't designed to excel at dazing.

Play mesmer

No .

Ele won't work as daze spec. Try thief or mesmer

I only play ele for the last 3+ years. I don't want to play anything else ever. Thanks!I want better CC for ele because ours sucks. People just walk through static and wall like its nothing. Chill is our best cc, and it's good, but it's not enough.

@katniss.6735 said:I only play ele for the last 3+ years. I don't want to play anything else ever. Thanks!I want better CC for ele because ours sucks. People just walk through static and wall like its nothing. Chill is our best cc, and it's good, but it's not enough.

The problem is we cant be good at everything and Daze is not part of our identity, but I think a CC/kiting water based offensive build would be very interesting and in keeping with the archetype.

Some CC skills - wether it being Daze or whatever - are not meant for shutting down enemies by disabling them for a longer period of time but by interrupting them. This is the case for quite a few skills and in case of Polaric Leap you even get an additional benefit if doing so successfully. You might not like it but it's reasonable and still a pretty great skills.

@katniss.6735 said:I only play ele for the last 3+ years. I don't want to play anything else ever. Thanks!I want better CC for ele because ours sucks. People just walk through static and wall like its nothing. Chill is our best cc, and it's good, but it's not enough.

Sadly chill got a major nerf with the new condi convention list. Chill become alacrity a lower end soft cc become a major boon its as bad as root becoming resistance. Ele as a cc class is simply made for an older version of gw2 not what it is now.

I'm sorry, but I didn't understand anything you just said, Jski.As for chill, if you drop the massive field where the enemy zerg shows up at after their invis wears off, it is equivalent to an aoe blind that repeats as long as they remain in it. It can't be cleansed off, you have to move everyone out of it or you will be 2nd in the first attack, which can be a game changer. I play staff ele with water cds reduced so I can use that, and heal blasts as much as possible. I also blast the chill field if my group is near it.

@katniss.6735 said:No .

Then stick with Elementalist. Ele isn't designed to be good at dazing, stunning and interrupting.

@"katniss.6735" said:I'm sorry, but I didn't understand anything you just said, Jski.As for chill, if you drop the massive field where the enemy zerg shows up at after their invis wears off, it is equivalent to an aoe blind that repeats as long as they remain in it. It can't be cleansed off, you have to move everyone out of it or you will be 2nd in the first attack, which can be a game changer. I play staff ele with water cds reduced so I can use that, and heal blasts as much as possible. I also blast the chill field if my group is near it.

So with the update to conversion chills become alacrity and often you find ppl have resistance so the chill that you reapply has not effect other then giving them more alacrity. Its scorge who has the condi conversion and it hits 10 targets so more often then not your chill field is giving the other team free alacrity.You could even say ele root as its a longer duration root and not "spam" root is now wreak due to it being conversion into resistance with out any real means for the ele to counter such an effect.

Elementalist, jack of all traits, master of none....except max PvE damage.

@apharma.3741 said:Elementalist, jack of all traits, master of none....except max PvE damage.

I would suggest what class is not a jack of all triads? Elite spec killed that point of balancing a few years ago with HoT.

If any thing ele is less of a jack of all traits then all of the other classes in the game and its only getting worst with each elite spec they add to the ele class.

Even before HoT was ele realty a jack of all traits? It had major gaps in its game play mostly dealing with boons condis and the counter to such effects. It was never that tankly then any other class. What made the other classes so non jack of all traits. Even the very ideal of gw2 was non specialization of classes (no healers no tank no dps) what worth dose a jack of all traits have in a game like that?

At this point its a sick joke to ever think ele as a real jack of all traits with such major lack of traits that other classes had AND all the effect of the ele it self. I guess you could say this is a falsehood meme to call ele a jack of all traits at any point of GW2. Its like buffing shatterstone a cruel joke that makes ppl feel like ele is balanced and on part with other classes yet not.

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Elementalist, jack of all traits, master of none....except max PvE damage.

You pick any weapon set with ele and you will always have:A skill that heals alliesAt least 2 hard CCsDamaging conditions in 2 attunementsControl/debuff conditions in the other 2 elementsA number of combo finishersSome limited cleansing for self and allies on staff

Most classes do not have these benefits baseline no matter what weapon they use, sure they can with the right weapons and trait but they must invest in it. An ele has to invest in surviving but the weapon sets in general are extremely well rounded, this is one of the reasons it was so good with celestial.

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Elementalist, jack of all traits, master of none....except max PvE damage.

But that not every thing in the game a class can do. By its very def ele is not a jack of all traits if it can do every thing in the game just not "well." The only thing you can call a jack of all traits is something that heals, dmg, tanks condi dmg and debuff, hard cc, boon strip, boon crouption, condi converstion, boon support, mass ports or movement support, has a viable pet, self support, barrier support (new from PoF), dmg support (less boon more blunt dmg +) (all i can think of now). Even if we lets some effect over lap to cover a few things you still have very big gaps in the ele tool bar at is core and even elite spec that keeps it from being a jack of all traits.

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Elementalist, jack of all traits, master of none....except max PvE damage.

You do realise when people say jack of all trades master of none they don’t literally mean you do everything? They mean you can do decent at many things but you’re not the best at any one thing.

Yes FB and scourge are too strong, they do too much, that’s not a revelation to anyone, they should be brought down not everything creeped up to their level.

Why a longer duration ?

Dazes is supposed to be well placed to prompt an interruption when it's needed, more than prevent skill activations.

And :

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Ele isn't designed to be good at dazing, stunning and interrupting.

This

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Elementalist, jack of all traits, master of none....except max PvE damage.

Then they are using the wrong words a jack of all trades is just that of ALL trades any thing less is not a jack of all trades. There are classes in gw2 who are true jack of all trades necro eng and gurd. These 3 classes can do EVERYTHING in the game but ele cant all though its the "jack of all trades" and for some reason its not doing every thing in the game and there are classes who are.

Anet not going to fix FB and scourge enofe to make the game balanced as there are class problems that need far more then number nerfs to fix. If anet in there last update was so hand off on there update your just not going to see it in any other update.

If all you can do is say other classes are op but ele is ok your living in a dream world thinking that going to fix any thing.

@Jski.6180 said:

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Elementalist, jack of all traits, master of none....except max PvE damage.

This is how power creep happens, class X is best support in HoT. Class Y and Z get given more tools for support, Y does far more support than any other class, Z does similar level of support to X but also more damage and debuffing.

If you then buff X to the same level as Y and Z you have power creeped not only Y and Z but X now and that’s without mentioning the support from the other 6 classes that was worse than X. This game is bleeding players because of the power creep, you might like the low risk spamfiesta this game has become but many, including myself do not.

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

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@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Elementalist, jack of all traits, master of none....except max PvE damage.

It has happen already its too late to go back and stop thinking it will once something is changed every thing is changed along with it even the ppl who are using the classes are changed.

Nothing to do with buffing x y z its about lacking z and saying it has all 3 yet it dose not. The very ideal arone the ele class is a lie it cant do every thing its not important if it dose it well or not its at the very meaning of a word.

@Jski.6180 said:

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Elementalist, jack of all traits, master of none....except max PvE damage.

Still hung up on the jack of all trades comparison eh?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_of_all_trades,_master_of_none

"Jack of all trades, master of none" is a figure of speech used in reference to a person who has dabbled in many skills, rather than gaining expertise by focusing on one. To be a jack of all trades class it only needs access to a lot of options without being too narrowly focused. Every single weapon set ele has does a lot of different stuff, they all involve healing to allies, all have a bit of condition damage, all have combo finishers and usually fields, all have at least 2 forms of CC.

If ANet doesn’t reduce the power creep they won’t have a player base. That’s not speculation, look at how much it has dropped since HoT introduced all the power creep. Look at your own friends list at all the people who do not spend even half the time they used to playing. You can say it’s a dream and make up as many excuses as you want but power creep has and is continuing to drive players away.

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

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@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Elementalist, jack of all traits, master of none....except max PvE damage.

I get that but if your argument is only about it not being a real thing meaning it can do every thing or simply means what you want it to mean at that moment then every class in this game would be called jack of all trades and your trying to simply rationalized why its ok to only call ele a jack of all trades yet not others as means of why ele is an over all weak class.

In a lot of ways your using the "jack of all trades" argument to wave away any thoughts of why its not ok for a class to be weaker then others namely ele and i am bluntly pointing out other classes who are both "jack of all trades" AND master of trades at the same time. The every idea of saying its ok for classes to have every thing and not hold up to the "jack of all trades" balancing ideal you have is super hypocritical and i am pointing out that flaw in logic.

Ele cant do every thing yet it still not a master of any thing. There are classes who can do every thing and they are master of many things. There IS a balancing problem in this game and your not going to have anet pull other classes down to ele level. Your very ideal of this game balancing are wrong and your only enabling anet to keep a 2 class system of have and have nots going.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/39053/dagger-dagger-weaver-explained#latest If you're looking for something with a lot of CC-- not just a bunch of daze. Even then, you could swap off Dagger for Focus for DAZE.

Elementalist, Tempest, and Weaver are all not made with the intention to spam constant DAZE; they can, however, spam a variety of crowd-control-- I would consider looking more in-depth.

My ele is really dazzling and stunning though. I always thought my enemies should be instantly stunned (or at least blinded) as soon as they look at me. It's hard to be pretty.

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Elementalist, jack of all traits, master of none....except max PvE damage.

No you don’t get it because you’re not looking at how ele weapons are designed vs how other classes weapons are designed.

As I said in my earlier comments:You pick any weapon set with ele and you will always have:A skill that heals alliesAt least 2 hard CCsDamaging conditions in 2 attunementsControl/debuff conditions in the other 2 elementsA number of combo finishersSome limited cleansing for self and allies on staff

Ele weapons are designed at their core to give a wider variety of uses over being highly specialised in what they do like a lot of other classes. Find me any other class that has all of this on any weapon set they can choose without traits and utilities. This is where the jack of all trades reference comes from. To get this level of versatility most classes require some traiting and usually varying amounts of utility skills as well as being locked into certain weapon choices.

It’s one of the reasons you won’t have a pure high amount of long (1s) dazes in a build like you can find in other classes. The nearest you get is Sw/F weaver with reduced air and water cool downs which can give you a decent amount of CC to throw out from polaric leap, comet, gale, and gale strike. Other possible options are overload air shocking aura spam tempest but requires full melee almost for the enemies to be CC spammed and can be interrupted.

Edit: the problem is also the OP has pretty much already said they wish to rigidly stick to staff and weaver while ruling out a lot of options people suggested.